Author Topic: ISRO NavIC/IRNSS and GAGAN SBAS - General Discussion  (Read 97224 times)

Offline vyoma

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« Last Edit: 07/31/2022 06:40 pm by vyoma »

Offline vyoma

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #1 on: 05/26/2015 03:10 am »
http://www.isro.gov.in/applications/step-towards-initial-satellite-based-navigation-services-india-gagan-irnss

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A step towards initial Satellite based Navigation Services in India: GAGAN & IRNSS

The Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) and Airports Authority of India (AAI) have implemented the GPS Aided Geo Augmented Navigation-GAGAN project as a Satellite Based Augmentation System (SBAS) for the Indian Airspace. The objective of GAGAN to establish, deploy and certify satellite based augmentation system for safety-of-life civil aviation applications in India has been successfully completed. The system is inter-operable with other international SBAS systems like US-WAAS, European EGNOS, and Japanese MSAS etc. GAGAN GEO footprint extends from Africa to Australia and has expansion capability for seamless navigation services across the region. GAGAN provides the additional accuracy, availability, and integrity necessary for all phases of flight, from enroute through approach for all qualified airports within the GAGAN service volume. GAGAN Payload is already operational through GSAT-8 and GSAT-10 satellites. The third GAGAN payload will be carried onboard GSAT-15 satellite which is scheduled for launch this year.

Initially, Director General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) certified GAGAN for enroute operations (RNP 0.1) on December 30, 2013 and subsequently on April 21, 2015 for precision approach services (APV 1). APV1 Certified GAGAN signals are being broadcast with effect from May 19, 2015. GAGAN is the first SBAS system in the world to serve the equatorial region. GAGAN ionospheric algorithm known as ISRO GIVE Model-Multi-Layer Data Fusion (IGM-MLDF) was developed by ISRO and is operational in the implemented GAGAN System. India has become the third country in the world to have such precision approach capabilities.

GAGAN though primarily meant for aviation, will provide benefits beyond aviation to many other user segments such as intelligent transportation, maritime, highways, railways, surveying, geodesy, security agencies, telecom industry, personal users of position location applications etc.

IRNSS, the Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System, is an ISRO initiative to design and develop an independent satellite-based navigation system to provide positioning, navigation and timing services for users over Indian region. The system is designed with a constellation of 7 spacecraft and a vast network of ground systems operating. The first three satellites (IRNSS-1A, 1B &1C) were launched in 2013-14.

IRNSS-1D, the fourth satellite of IRNSS constellation was successfully launched on March 28, 2015 on board PSLV-C27. The initial tests of the spacecraft have been successfully completed and it has joined the family of IRNSS space segment. With the addition of fourth spacecraft the minimum satellite requirement is met and independent position solution is demonstrated for the first time using an Indian satellite-based navigation system. The unique Geostationary Earth Orbit (GEO) /Geo Synchronous Orbit (GSO) constellation design provides a position accuracy of better than 15 metre for longer duration of 20 hours in a day even with 4 satellites.

ISRO has released the ‘IRNSS Signal-in-Space interface control document for Standard Positioning Service ver 1.0’, the document that comprehensively provides all the information required by user receiver manufacturers. The document is available for download at http://irnss.isro.gov.in.

While GAGAN will redefine navigation over Indian Airspace, IRNSS will provide independent and self reliant satellite based navigation services over Indian region
« Last Edit: 05/26/2015 03:12 am by vyoma »

Offline Ohsin

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #2 on: 05/26/2015 05:25 am »
They should really start showcasing navigational service working and any other info on industries adapting it, hardware etc..

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The ISRO would drive navigation in the country with chipsets and other smart products.

A Hyderabad company was making a dongle-like tool that could be plugged to a laptop or a tablet PC.
Source(last line)
« Last Edit: 05/26/2015 05:26 am by Ohsin »
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Offline vyoma

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #3 on: 05/27/2015 03:11 am »
Indigenous Rubidium atomic will be used for next-gen IRNSS satellites:

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The ISRO’s Space Applications Centre in Ahmedabad is developing prototypes of atomic clocks, along with the CSIR’s National Physical Laboratory in New Delhi, Dr. Kiran Kumar said on the sidelines of an event organised by the Metrology Society here.

“We still have to make qualified and flight-worthy versions. Our next generation navigation satellites will carry our own clocks” when they start replacing the IRNSS-1 series after their life of 10 years, he said.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/india-developing-atomic-clocks-for-use-on-satellites/article7229191.ece

Offline vyoma

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #4 on: 07/20/2015 09:16 am »
http://www.insidegnss.com/node/4545

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India’s regional navigation constellation, IRNSS, has demonstrated independent three-dimensional position determination for the first time using a combination of geostationary and geosynchronous satellites now in orbit. Earlier this year, IRNSS reference receivers and user receivers demonstrated a positioning accuracy of 10–15 meters, as per the design objectives for four satellites. Since then, position fixes using stand-alone IRNSS receivers have been possible with an accuracy of better than 15 meters for a minimum of 18 hours in a day over India as the result of the continuous visibility of GEO/GSO satellites to the system’s ground segment. The navigation software team from the Indian Space Research Organization describes this achievement.

Offline vyoma

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #5 on: 09/26/2015 08:28 am »
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/user-meet-on-navigation-satellite-system-on-oct-8/article7681675.ece

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BENGALURU, SEPTEMBER 25: 
The Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) – User Meet 2015 will be held here on October 8.

It will bring together GNSS-based industries – receiver manufacturers, PNT service providers, application developers, content providers and the user community along with the academia on a common platform.

The meet is being organised jointly by the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) and Airports Authority of India (AAI) at ISRO Satellite Centre here.

Offline beidou

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #6 on: 09/30/2015 08:15 pm »
Does anyone have any ideas when IRNSS-1G will be launched?

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #7 on: 10/01/2015 06:19 am »
Does anyone have any ideas when IRNSS-1G will be launched?
its currently a replenshment payload for LON.

Offline Ohsin

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #8 on: 10/08/2015 03:49 pm »
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GSAT-15 satellite with GAGAN payload is slated for launch by November 10
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We expect by March 2016 all the seven constellation of IRNSS to be in orbit
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"....already we are having within the country provisions of providing it, we are also looking at how we can extend it to SAARC countries and in the near future gradually extend it over the entire globe,"

 Asked how global, he said "set of regional things you add it becomes global, it is a thought process on which we are now working with few of the countries...right now we are doing 1500 km beyond the border, so we can keep adding regions to those things and get global."

Source:ET


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Satellite-based systems: Application aplenty, but commercialization key
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"We'll need our own receivers that can be integrated, we will need simulators," he said. More than 200 receivers
 
 Isro Chairman AS Kiran Kumar said that in the coming months, more than 200 receivers designed and developed by Isro will become operational, he said, adding that even those receivers from the private industry can be made use of.
 
 "In fact, the Semiconductor Complex Limited (run by the Ministry of Information and Technology) in Chandigarh has designed and developed more than 28 products and I must say that there is a lot of work happening in the field," Kiran Kumar said, speaking of the various chips and receivers that need to be used for implementing a navigation system.
Source: ToI

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Offline beidou

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #9 on: 10/08/2015 09:36 pm »

Quote
We expect by March 2016 all the seven constellation of IRNSS to be in orbit


Wow, how could this be true? Current there is even no plan of launching the 7th IrNss satellite. I think this is just a boast...
« Last Edit: 10/09/2015 08:34 pm by beidou »

Offline Ohsin

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #10 on: 10/09/2015 04:07 am »
Wow, how could this be true? Current there is even no plan of launching the 7th IrNss satellite. I think this is just a boast...

Any basis of that assertion? And it is a HUGE one by the way. Why would there be no plan to launch 7th satellite? And a guy in such an position of responsibility would just randomly choose to 'boast' when  it can fall flat in just few months and don't forget the presence of elephant in the room which will be even more a talking point in April 2016. So do tell if there is any source or valid reason for cancellation of 1G as you said.
« Last Edit: 10/09/2015 07:54 am by Ohsin »
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Offline vineethgk

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #11 on: 10/09/2015 04:16 pm »
A snapshot from an ISRO presentation (I think) that was posted before, had depicted IRNSS as an 11 satellite constellation with 4 additional sats in GSO. Any news if they have any immediate plans to augment IRNSS with these 4 birds?

Also, IRNSS being GEO/GSO orbits, would it theoretically enable faster satellite locks for a user in the Indian subcontinent with an IRNSS enabled device, than it would be with GPS?

Offline beidou

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #12 on: 10/09/2015 08:37 pm »
Wow, how could this be true? Current there is even no plan of launching the 7th IrNss satellite. I think this is just a boast...

Any basis of that assertion? And it is a HUGE one by the way. Why would there be no plan to launch 7th satellite? And a guy in such an position of responsibility would just randomly choose to 'boast' when  it can fall flat in just few months and don't forget the presence of elephant in the room which will be even more a talking point in April 2016. So do tell if there is any source or valid reason for cancellation of 1G as you said.

I cannot prove there is NO launch plan, but you should prove to us that there IS a plan for launching 1G.


Offline vineethgk

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #13 on: 10/09/2015 10:00 pm »
I cannot prove there is NO launch plan, but you should prove to us that there IS a plan for launching 1G.

Well, AFAIK ISRO has been saying all along that this will be a 'seven' satellite constellation once operational.

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The space segment consists of the IRNSS constellation of seven satellites. Three satellites will be located in suitable orbital slots in the geostationary orbit and the remaining four will be located in geosynchronous orbits with the required inclination and equatorial crossings in two different planes. All the satellites of the constellation are being configured identically. The satellites are configured with I-1K Bus to be compatible for launch on-board PSLV.

Source

Now the Chairman of ISRO himself says that they plan to have all 'seven' in orbit by March 2016. I do not get the confusion. Is your point just that there hasn't been much information in the public domain 'specifically' for IRNSS-1G? ;)

Offline Ohsin

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #14 on: 10/10/2015 05:17 am »
I cannot prove there is NO launch plan, but you should prove to us that there IS a plan for launching 1G.

This was the plan 3 months ago.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35783.msg1392830#msg1392830

So far there have been just minor schedule changes. And as Vineet said,it is clear from regular official quotes in media they've stuck to Annual Report.

On other note two of IRNSS sats it seems are sharing a spot doing their figure eights.
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Offline vyoma

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #15 on: 10/12/2015 03:22 am »
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/505901/chinas-overtures-space-worry-india.html

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While four satellites of IRNSS is already in the orbit, the fifth one is scheduled to be launched in December and the next two by March, 2016.

Offline chota

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #16 on: 10/12/2015 10:40 pm »

Offline chota

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #17 on: 10/12/2015 10:58 pm »
Quote
Six more satellites are planned to be launched during 2015-16. These are two communication satellites GSAT-6 and GSAT-15; three navigation satellites IRNSS-1E, IRNSS-1F & IRNSS-1G

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/science/news/indias-second-lunar-probe-chandrayaan-2-to-be-launched-in-2017-690028

Offline kanaka

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #18 on: 11/27/2015 09:46 am »
Any updates on IRNSS signals and receivers and implementation of GAGAN in Indian Airports?

Offline Ohsin

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #19 on: 11/27/2015 02:08 pm »
Any updates on IRNSS signals and receivers and implementation of GAGAN in Indian Airports?

Quote
    "We'll need our own receivers that can be integrated, we will need simulators," he said. More than 200 receivers

    Isro Chairman AS Kiran Kumar said that in the coming months, more than 200 receivers designed and developed by Isro will become operational, he said, adding that even those receivers from the private industry can be made use of.

    "In fact, the Semiconductor Complex Limited (run by the Ministry of Information and Technology) in Chandigarh has designed and developed more than 28 products and I must say that there is a lot of work happening in the field," Kiran Kumar said, speaking of the various chips and receivers that need to be used for implementing a navigation system.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Satellite-based-systems-Application-aplenty-but-commercialisation-key/articleshow/49271260.cms


« Last Edit: 11/27/2015 02:09 pm by Ohsin »
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Offline Ohsin

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #20 on: 01/08/2016 04:19 am »
« Last Edit: 01/08/2016 06:44 am by Ohsin »
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Offline seshagirib

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #21 on: 01/08/2016 04:29 am »
Four more being built to serve as backup.

http://Http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/isro-works-on-4-back-up-satellites-for-irnss/

fixed link : http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/isro-works-on-4-back-up-satellites-for-irnss/

I wonder, what is the shelf life of these spare Sats. I suppose they must be stored in special environmental chambers?
Not clear from the article if these will be ground based or in orbit spares.
astronaut on space ship earth

Offline Stan Black

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #22 on: 01/08/2016 07:36 am »
Four more being built to serve as backup.

http://Http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/isro-works-on-4-back-up-satellites-for-irnss/

fixed link : http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/isro-works-on-4-back-up-satellites-for-irnss/

I wonder, what is the shelf life of these spare Sats. I suppose they must be stored in special environmental chambers?
Not clear from the article if these will be ground based or in orbit spares.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36710.0

Offline Ohsin

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #23 on: 01/08/2016 10:21 am »
Source of above screencap @13m30s



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Offline worldtimedate

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #24 on: 01/11/2016 06:54 am »
All IRNSS satellites to be in orbit by March: ISRO official

Quote

All the seven satellites of Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS) are expected to be in the orbit by March 2016, a top Indian Space Research Organisation official today.

IRNSS-1E is slated for launch on January 20 from the space port of Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh.

"...from the regional navigation point of view, earlier we had launched four satellites. Another satellite IRNSS-1E is on the launch pad. It is slated for launch on January 20," ISRO Satellite Centre (ISAC) Director M Annadurai said.

He said (IRNSS) 1F and 1G satellites were also in the very advanced stages of integration at the Bangalore satellite centre.

"..by March 31st we want to have all the seven satellites constellation in place," he said.



--- [ --- ]

Offline vyoma

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #25 on: 01/21/2016 03:49 am »
http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil_nadu/Coming-July-Mobile-Handsets-May-Sport-Indigenous-GPS/2016/01/21/article3237211.ece

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Moving quickly to fulfil the plan to replace the US-run Global Positioning System (GPS) with an indigenous navigation system provided by IRNSS, the ISRO held a meeting with mobile phone makers and developers at Bengaluru recently. If all goes as per plan, the switch might happen by July 2016.

“During this meet, the ISRO had recommended fitting a small hardware in hand-held devices, mobile phones and including a code in the existing mobile software by which the devices can receive signals (L-Band and S-Band) from the satellite,” ISRO sources told Express.

Offline vyoma

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #26 on: 01/28/2016 12:39 pm »
http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/kineco-kaman-s-antenna-put-into-orbit-via-isro-satellite-116012800647_1.html

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Kineco Kaman Composites India (KKCI) has become the first private company in India to manufacture a Dual Helix Antenna Array (DHAA) assembly, which was launched into the space aboard ISRO's fifth Indian Regional Navigation Satellite (IRNSS-1E) this month.

"The DHAA assembly is a very complex and high precision structure made using a combination of Carbon and Aramid Composites. The manufacturing of this DHAA requires hi-tech engineering and manufacturing competence, benchmarked with the best in the world," said Shekhar Sardessai, Chairman and MD, Kineco Kaman Composites-India Private Limited.

Offline input~2

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #27 on: 02/05/2016 07:18 pm »
Quote
A budget of `1420 Crores has been approved by the Government for the realisation of IRNSS programme including satellites and associated ground segment.
http://dos.gov.in/sites/default/files/LS%20243.pdf

Offline kanaka

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #28 on: 02/06/2016 10:13 am »
Quote
A budget of `1420 Crores has been approved by the Government for the realisation of IRNSS programme including satellites and associated ground segment.
http://dos.gov.in/sites/default/files/LS%20243.pdf

Aditya is more of fantasy than addressing needs. The funds can be diverted to IRNSS instead and Aditya can be postponed. ROI on Aditya mission could be very minimal.

Offline Ohsin

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #29 on: 02/12/2016 04:57 pm »


Mentioning IRNSS extension chairman was quite specific when he said gulf and Korean side. Keep in mind recent MoU with UAE mentions satellite navigation.
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Offline beidou

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #30 on: 02/13/2016 07:00 pm »
recent MoU with UAE mentions satellite navigation.

Do you mean India will collaborate with NK and UAE to expand IRNSS to these regions?

Offline Ohsin

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #31 on: 02/13/2016 10:28 pm »
recent MoU with UAE mentions satellite navigation.

Do you mean India will collaborate with NK and UAE to expand IRNSS to these regions?

I mean South Koreans. Yes just speculating as accuracy drops around those parts.
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Offline worldtimedate

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #32 on: 02/20/2016 07:26 am »
ISRO Chairman has confirmed that the last two IRNSS satellites would be launched on March 10 and March 31 this year.

Quote
On ISRO’s future plans, the Chairman said the remaining two satellites of IRNSS series would be launched on March 10 and March 31 this year.

Source : More satellites needed to meet rising space-tech demand: ISRO


--- [ --- ]

Offline vineethgk

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #33 on: 02/20/2016 08:04 am »
If they manage to do it, I guess this must be the first time they are attempting two launches in the same month? But the March 31 kind of looks slippery to me though..

Offline vyoma

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Re: IRNSS discussion
« Reply #34 on: 08/13/2016 04:55 am »
« Last Edit: 08/13/2016 05:32 am by vyoma »

Offline vyoma

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« Last Edit: 08/26/2016 07:54 am by vyoma »

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #36 on: 09/02/2016 02:46 am »
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-karnataka/industry-to-build-isros-two-spare-navigation-satellites/article9062751.ece

Quote
ISRO is finalising plans to get two spare navigation satellites of its IRNSS fleet built by industry in the next two years.

It will handhold industry for the first project and build it by March 2017. The second one will be built entirely by industry, M. Annadurai, Director of ISRO Satellite Centre, said on Thursday. Both will be 1,400-kg spares kept ready on ground.

Quote
‘Technical bid soon’

Dr. Annadurai said ISRO plans to go to the next level and issue the request for proposal — the technical bid — “in weeks” to interested companies from both, public and private sectors.

The bids are planned to be evaluated and a final consortium to be identified by October, so that the spacecraft can be ready by March 2017. The second spacecraft is aimed for a year thereafter, but will be built by industry using ISRO’s designs and under its watch.

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #37 on: 09/02/2016 03:40 am »
Here's the EoI by ISRO/SAC for industries to build two satellites: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32023.msg1568924#msg1568924

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #38 on: 09/03/2016 11:01 pm »
Quote
Description of the Opportunity
Space Applications Centre (SAC), Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO), Department of Space (DOS), Government of India, declares an “Announcement of Opportunity (AO)” to carry out scientific research under “IRNSS/GAGAN Data Utilization Program”.

Quote
Who can submit a proposal?
Proposals could be submitted by individuals or a group of scientists and academicians belonging to recognized institutions, universities, government and private organizations of India. Only those having at least a minimum remaining service of four years before superannuation are eligible to lead the project as PI/Co-PI. The proposals must be forwarded through the Head of the Institution, with appropriate assurance for providing necessary facilities for carrying out the projects under this AO program.

Data availability
The data from GAGAN is continuously being collected since 2005 and can be provided however, IRNSS data will be made available by July, 2017.

http://www.sac.gov.in/SACSITE/AO_IRNSS_GAGAN_UP_March23_FINAL__2016.pdf
« Last Edit: 09/03/2016 11:01 pm by vyoma »

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #39 on: 09/07/2016 04:01 pm »
A report from few days back..

Isro plans to launch first privately built satellite by March

Quote
India’s space agency, Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), plans to launch a navigation satellite that it would build jointly with a private firm, by March next year, beginning a process to outsource satellite manufacturing and free its resources to focus on research and deep space missions.
Are they really planning to launch it by next March, or is this just a mis-reporting? I thought they just meant to have them built as ground spares. Also, can they get the satellite built so soon?

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #40 on: 09/07/2016 05:20 pm »
As per report in this post, it'll be a spare satellite kept on ground.

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #41 on: 10/05/2016 05:42 am »
IAF faces longer wait for own satellite as Isro yet to get nod
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Singh said the decisions were being taken at the Air Force headquarters and by Isro. He, however, confirmed that the IAF will soon be migrating to the indigenised version of GPS, using Isro's Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS).

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #42 on: 10/06/2016 02:42 pm »
PEC to collaborate with SAC for ISRO project

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Chandigarh: PEC University of Technology will working with institutions to collect data for the Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS) programme of ISRO, named as NAVIC (acronym for NAVigation using Indian Constellation)
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The college will receive four receivers soon which will be used in research and teaching methods. Besides this, the college will work on small projects and the performance of these will be examined for a year.
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PEC has signed a memorandum of understanding with SAC, which has additionally roped in various other technical institutes from the country for the IRNSS data collection exercise using SAC-developed IRNSS ground receiver.

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #43 on: 01/18/2017 05:54 pm »
Galileo satellites experiencing multiple clock failures

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The onboard atomic clocks that drive the satellite-navigation signals on Europe's Galileo network have been failing at an alarming rate.
Across the 18 satellites now in orbit, nine clocks have stopped operating.
Three are traditional rubidium devices; six are the more precise hydrogen maser instruments that were designed to give Galileo superior performance to the American GPS network.

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Esa is also in contact with the Indian space agency which is using the same clocks in its sat-nav system. So far, the Indians have not experienced the same failures.

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Most of the maser failures (5) have occurred on the satellites that were originally sent into orbit to validate the system, whereas all three rubidium stoppages are on the spacecraft that were subsequently launched to fill out the network.

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It appears the rubidium failures "all seem to have a consistent signature, linked to probable short circuits, and possibly a particular test procedure performed on the ground".

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The maser clock failures are said to be better understood, with two likely causes, the second of which has caused most grief.
The Esa statement said this second scenario was "related to the fact that when some healthy [hydrogen maser] clocks are turned off for long periods, they do not restart due to a change in clock characteristics".
« Last Edit: 01/18/2017 07:38 pm by vyoma »

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #44 on: 01/18/2017 06:01 pm »
IRNSS satellites are using similar Rubidium atomic clocks sourced from same manufacturer/vendor (Spectratime) as that of ESA.

Hope those failures seen on Galileo are one off cases  :-X ISRO should switch to indigenous clocks ASAP.

Rubidium clock failures are seen in operational Galileo satellites. First operational Galileo was launched in 2011, and first operational IRNSS was launched in 2013. So, there's not much difference in terms of aging of clocks.

ESA is suspecting some kind of short circuit in Rubidium clocks, linked to a certain test procedure done on ground.
« Last Edit: 01/18/2017 07:39 pm by vyoma »

Offline chota

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #45 on: 01/25/2017 11:28 am »
Galileo satellites experiencing multiple clock failures

Quote
The onboard atomic clocks that drive the satellite-navigation signals on Europe's Galileo network have been failing at an alarming rate.
Across the 18 satellites now in orbit, nine clocks have stopped operating.
Three are traditional rubidium devices; six are the more precise hydrogen maser instruments that were designed to give Galileo superior performance to the American GPS network.

Quote
Esa is also in contact with the Indian space agency which is using the same clocks in its sat-nav system. So far, the Indians have not experienced the same failures.

Quote
Most of the maser failures (5) have occurred on the satellites that were originally sent into orbit to validate the system, whereas all three rubidium stoppages are on the spacecraft that were subsequently launched to fill out the network.

Quote
It appears the rubidium failures "all seem to have a consistent signature, linked to probable short circuits, and possibly a particular test procedure performed on the ground".

Quote
The maser clock failures are said to be better understood, with two likely causes, the second of which has caused most grief.
The Esa statement said this second scenario was "related to the fact that when some healthy [hydrogen maser] clocks are turned off for long periods, they do not restart due to a change in clock characteristics".

There you go !!. One of the IRNSS satellite has developed a problem !!.

It seems India is using Spectratime-built atomic clocks as is the case with China

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indias-swadeshi-gps-develops-a-problem-but-remains-functional-1652638
« Last Edit: 01/25/2017 11:30 am by chota »

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #46 on: 01/25/2017 02:02 pm »
Galileo satellites experiencing multiple clock failures

Quote
The onboard atomic clocks that drive the satellite-navigation signals on Europe's Galileo network have been failing at an alarming rate.
Across the 18 satellites now in orbit, nine clocks have stopped operating.
Three are traditional rubidium devices; six are the more precise hydrogen maser instruments that were designed to give Galileo superior performance to the American GPS network.

Quote
Esa is also in contact with the Indian space agency which is using the same clocks in its sat-nav system. So far, the Indians have not experienced the same failures.

Quote
Most of the maser failures (5) have occurred on the satellites that were originally sent into orbit to validate the system, whereas all three rubidium stoppages are on the spacecraft that were subsequently launched to fill out the network.

Quote
It appears the rubidium failures "all seem to have a consistent signature, linked to probable short circuits, and possibly a particular test procedure performed on the ground".

Quote
The maser clock failures are said to be better understood, with two likely causes, the second of which has caused most grief.
The Esa statement said this second scenario was "related to the fact that when some healthy [hydrogen maser] clocks are turned off for long periods, they do not restart due to a change in clock characteristics".

There you go !!. One of the IRNSS satellite has developed a problem !!.

It seems India is using Spectratime-built atomic clocks as is the case with China

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indias-swadeshi-gps-develops-a-problem-but-remains-functional-1652638
Oops. This is turning out to be a really costly issue. A disaster of sorts if both ESA and ISRO ultimately end up replacing its entire navigation constellation. For India, this would be quite critical as both  ISRO and the defense agencies were planning to utilize NavIC for their respective strategic requirements. Does this indicate the problem was likely with the clocks themselves, and not due to test procedures or associated instruments?

Offline eeergo

Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #47 on: 01/25/2017 02:11 pm »

Does this indicate the problem was likely with the clocks themselves, and not due to test procedures or associated instruments?


According to this: https://www.spaceintelreport.com/galileo-clocks


"Javier Benedicto, head of the Galileo Program Department at the 22-nation ESA, said the investigation has tentatively concluded that the issues do not relate to the core technology provided by SpectraTime.

In an interview, Benedicto said that while the root cause of the failure likely is to be found inside the clocks, it is more likely to be of a peripheral piece of circuitry or other unremarkable component that, when operated in a certain way, leads to failure.

“We have 72 clocks in orbit today,” Benedicto said. “Of these, we have had up to six failures. We have not been able to replicate those failures on the ground. These units all passed their qualification and acceptance tests.”
[...]“It is not a development issue with the clocks,” Benedicto said. “It is not a fundamental part of the unit that is failing.They were not bound to fail. But in certain conditions where you have certain parameters going in the wrong direction together, it could cause the unit to fail. You have to be particularly unlucky and have all the failure parameters drifting in a specific direction.""
-DaviD-

Offline sanjaykumar

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #48 on: 01/25/2017 03:03 pm »

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indias-swadeshi-gps-develops-a-problem-but-remains-functional-1652638


Quote

India's Swadeshi GPS Develops A Problem, But Remains Functional

"The on-board atomic clock has developed a problem and we are trying to revive it," said Dr. Kiran Kumar, Chairman of ISRO or the Indian Space Research Organization, to NDTV.

« Last Edit: 01/25/2017 03:06 pm by sanjaykumar »

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #49 on: 01/25/2017 03:17 pm »



“It is not a development issue with the clocks,” Benedicto said. “It is not a fundamental part of the unit that is failing.They were not bound to fail. But in certain conditions where you have certain parameters going in the wrong direction together, it could cause the unit to fail. You have to be particularly unlucky and have all the failure parameters drifting in a specific direction.""

But if the failures in the cases of Galileo and IRNSS indeed turn out to follow a similar pattern (too early to say at the moment as ISRO is yet to publish its share of details), it may not be a case of being 'particularly unlucky' after all.

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #50 on: 01/26/2017 01:23 am »
Not sure what they mean by "satellite's not visible"!?

Also, as per this  €4M contract between SpectraTime and ISRO, each satellite has (or supposed to have), 4 Rubidium clocks. So, there should be some sort redundancy.

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. In the framework of the IRNSS program, each satellite will have four SpectraTime Rubidium atomic clocks on board to reach a stability of less than 10 billionths of a second per day. « To give a point of comparison, our clocks are 10 million times more precise than a watch made of quartz" », says Pascal Rochat, Chief Executive Officer of SpectraTime.

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #51 on: 01/30/2017 01:58 am »
Atomic clocks on indigenous navigation satellite develop snag

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In the NavIC, a constellation of seven satellites, one of the three crucial rubidium timekeepers on IRNSS-1A spacecraft failed six months ago. The other two followed subsequently.

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A. S. Kiran Kumar, Chairman of the Indian Space Research Organisation, confirmed the glitch in the clocks but clarified that the satellite was otherwise all right, and the rest of the satellites were performing its core function of providing accurate position, navigation and time. However, without its clocks, the IRNSS-1A “will give a coarse value. It will not be used for computation. Messages from it will still be used.”

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“There are some anomalies in the atomic clock system on board. We are trying to restart it. Right now we are working out a mechanism for operating it,” he told The Hindu.

The problem is only with the clock system of one spacecraft. The signals are all coming, we are getting the messages, everything else is working and being used, except the stability portion which is linked to the clock,” he said. A minimum of four working satellites was sufficient to realise the full use of the navigation system”.

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NavIC has 21 atomic clocks on seven spacecraft. “How would the other clocks fare? Would ISRO reconsider the supplier of its atomic clocks? Such questions are not easy to answer. Generally any [space] hardware is an issue. We have to find ways of going around it,” he said.

Quote
The troubled IRNSS-1A spacecraft was put in space in July 2013 and has an expected life span of 10 years.

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #52 on: 01/30/2017 02:07 am »
I hope ISRO, ESA and Spectratime figure out the issue, and if possible recalibrate/reconfigure atomic clock hardware on other satellites to avoid further failures.

ISRO has imported 29 Rubidium clocks from SpectraTime, 21 of them are used in IRNSS-1A to 1G. Hopefully, they'll sort out the issue before remaining two backup satellites are built.

Quote
2010:  First RAFS rubidium clocks flying & operating on the COMPASS/Baidu satellites
2011:  Prime Swiss supplier of the PHM maser & RAFS rubidium clocks for Galileo's 14 satellites
2012:  Prime Swiss supplier of 29 space RAFS rubidium clocks for the IRNS (Indian Regional Navigation System)
2015:  Prime Swiss supplier of all PHM maser & RAFS rubidium clocks for the first 22 Galileo satellites

Even Chinese COMPASS and DFH satellites are using Spectratime Rubidium clocks, not sure if they've hit similar snags?!
« Last Edit: 01/30/2017 02:12 am by vyoma »

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #53 on: 01/30/2017 02:15 am »
I hope ISRO, ESA and Spectratime figure out the issue, and if possible recalibrate/reconfigure atomic clock hardware on other satellites to avoid further failures.

Even Chinese COMPASS and DFH satellites are using Spectratime Rubidium clocks, not sure if they've hit similar snags?!
Since the snag has hit the first IRNSS satellite at the moment, I really really hope it isn't a matter of time before the rest starts to show the same anomaly in sequence.

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #54 on: 01/30/2017 03:29 am »
Yes :( Rb clock failures are seen in two of the Galileo's operational constellation satellites (FOC). Considering first FOC was launched in 2014 and first IRNSS was launched in 2013, looks like these clocks are developing anomaly after approximately 3 years of operation (either due to inherent issue in clocks or satellite subsystem)!!

But, ESA's GIOVE-A/B and Galileo IOV (In-Orbit Validation) experimental satellites had same Rb clocks, and they didn't seem to have any failures after years of operation. Hopefully ESA, ISRO would be comparing GIOVE-A/B or IOV hardware with FOC or IRNSS hardware.

Offline chota

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #55 on: 01/30/2017 05:00 am »
Alarming !! All three clocks have failed – one primary and two backups

Replacement satellite 1H planned

https://thewire.in/103934/atomic-clock-rubidium-irnss/

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #56 on: 01/30/2017 05:43 am »
Alarming !! All three clocks have failed – one primary and two backups

Replacement satellite 1H planned

https://thewire.in/103934/atomic-clock-rubidium-irnss/

Would be really interesting to know how those clocks are faring in CNSA's satellites. Anyway, IRNSS-1H is going to to be built same hardware, not sure if it really helps in the long run.

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #57 on: 01/30/2017 05:55 am »
Alarming !! All three clocks have failed – one primary and two backups

Replacement satellite 1H planned

https://thewire.in/103934/atomic-clock-rubidium-irnss/

Would be really interesting to know how those clocks are faring in CNSA's satellites. Anyway, IRNSS-1H is going to to be built same hardware, not sure if it really helps in the long run.
Chinese may not readily acknowledge such a failure even if it had occurred, which is perhaps why there aren't reports of ESA contacting them yet. For that matter, even in India's case, was it perhaps the reports of Galileo's string of failures that encouraged ISRO to go public about this now?

As for IRNSS-1H, they might be banking on it as a stop-gap replacement at best until they figure out what exactly went wrong. NavIC is a crucial piece of equipment for India's strategic needs, and ISRO may not risk any dent in its capability even for a short term.
« Last Edit: 01/30/2017 05:56 am by vineethgk »

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #58 on: 01/31/2017 02:29 pm »
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/science/news/isro-to-launch-standby-navigation-satellite-to-replace-irnss-1a-1654441

Quote
India will launch one of its back up navigation satellites this year as a replacement to IRNSS-1A satellite, whose three atomic clocks have failed, an official of the Indian space agency said on Monday.

The official denied the existence of similar problems with the rubidium atomic clocks in another navigation satellite.

"The atomic clocks have failed in only one satellite. We will be launching the stand-by satellite this year. All other six satellites are operational and are providing the navigation data," A.S. Kiran Kumar, Chairman, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), told IANS.

He said the atomic clocks were imported and ISRO would take up the issue with the foreign supplier.

Each satellite has three clocks and a total of 27 clocks for the navigation satellite system were supplied by the same vendor. The clocks are important to provide precise data.
« Last Edit: 01/31/2017 02:31 pm by vyoma »

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #59 on: 01/31/2017 05:50 pm »
Quote
Atomic clocks failures onboard Galileo satellites

SSTL_PHMAcross the 18 satellites now in orbit, nine clocks out of 72 have stopped operating. Three are traditional rubidium devices; six are the more precise hydrogen maser instruments that were designed to give Galileo superior performance to the American GPS network.

Mitigating actions

It appears the rubidium failures all seem to have a consistent signature, linked to probable short circuits, and possibly a particular test procedure performed on the ground.

The maser clock failures are said to be better understood, with two likely causes, the second of which has caused most grief. The ESA statement said this second scenario was related to the fact that when some healthy [hydrogen maser] clocks are turned off for long periods, they do not restart due to a change in clock characteristics.


Source : Atomic clocks failures onboard Galileo satellites | GALILEO:


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Galileo clock anomalies under investigation

As first reported last November, anomalies have been noted in the atomic clocks serving Europe’s Galileo satellites.

Anomalies have occurred on five out of 18 Galileo satellites in orbit, although all satellites continue to operate well and the provision of Galileo Initial Services has not been affected.

Source : Galileo clock anomalies under investigation | GALILEO:

--- [ --- ]

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #60 on: 02/03/2017 01:50 am »
The earlier plan apparently was to have the IRNSS-1H (and 1I) built as ground spares by the private Alpha consortium under guidance from ISRO. Is it likely there would be change in those plans now in the aftermath of IRNSS-1A failure?

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #61 on: 02/03/2017 02:12 am »
As per this report, 1H was anyway supposed to be built by March 2017 with ISRO handholding private contractors. So, I guess, they may have already started building it.

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #62 on: 02/22/2017 10:03 am »
From the Annual Report 2016-17

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The space agencies of India and Japan have agreed to further enhance cooperation by signing a new MoU, which enables inclusion of satellite navigation and planetary exploration as additional areas ofcooperation. Both agencies have also agreed to conduct a joint experiment to study Venus atmosphereby collecting signals from JAXA’s Akatsuki mission by ISRO’s ground stations (IDSN). JAXA has agreedto support ISRO to establish a ground station in Japan to support NavIC satellite constellation.

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #63 on: 03/05/2017 07:26 am »
Interview with Nilesh M Desai, Deputy Director, SATCOM & Navigation Applications Area, SAC, ISRO
Quote
Currently, the main challenge is miniaturization. ISRO has already made receivers for both standard and restricted services. We have also shared information such as frequency and other aspects with private vendors and students to work on projects. However, the receiver being used currently is the size of a box. It will reach common people only when it can be embedded in a chip for mobile phone use. We hope that by the year-end, it will have commercial applications.
Quote
Within India and 1500 km of its periphery, we have observed up to 5 meters accuracy. Out of around five to six applications today, only Galileo has messaging interface embedded - a feature one will be able to use in NavIC. This feature will be helpful when a command center wants to send warnings to a specific geographic area. For example, fishermen using the system can be warned about a cyclone.
That '5m accuracy' mentioned above must be for the civilian Standard Positioning Service signals.
« Last Edit: 03/05/2017 07:30 am by vineethgk »

Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #64 on: 03/12/2017 04:12 pm »
India now includes those countries who have own navigation system.
Find Best comparison between all countries Navigation system below.
http://newser.in/good-news/indias-own-navigation-system-navic/

:) i dont know when NAVIC will be operational, have any idea ?
is available for public or only for governmental use ?

Offline sportyfailure

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #65 on: 04/21/2017 04:19 pm »
India now includes those countries who have own navigation system.
Find Best comparison between all countries Navigation system below.
http://newser.in/good-news/indias-own-navigation-system-navic/

:) i dont know when NAVIC will be operational, have any idea ?
is available for public or only for governmental use ?

NAVIC is reportedly operational.

It has both public and military modes.

Reports say regular GPS/GLONASS receivers are not compatible with NAVIC due to different frequency of operation and protocols. ISRO was sponsoring development of public receivers for various types of hardware like mobile devices, civil aircraft, merchant ships etc. but progress is unknown.
« Last Edit: 04/21/2017 04:20 pm by sportyfailure »

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #66 on: 05/30/2017 06:17 am »
Get ready! India's own GPS set to hit the market early next year

Quote
India's very own desi Global Positioning System (GPS) is operational and is set to hit the market for public use in early 2018.

"The Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS) with an operational name of NavIC is currently being tested for its accuracy and is most likely to be available in the market for public use early next year," said Tapan Misra, the director of Ahmedabad-based Space Application Centre (SAC).

"Though American GPS with 24 satellites in a constellation has wider reach and covers the entire world, NavIC with seven satellites covers only India and its surroundings but is more accurate than the American system. NavIC will provide standard positioning service to all users with a position accuracy of 5 metre. The GPS, on the other hand, has a position accuracy of 20-30 metre," the SAC director said.

We have developed digital chips to miniaturise technology (for use in mobiles and handsets) and experiments are on them. The system is being tested all across the country." He said,

Explaining the scientific reasons for NavIC's superiority over GPS, Misra said, "Our system has dual frequency (S and L bands). GPS is dependent only on L band.

"NavIC will cover the entire country, Indian Ocean and its surroundings. In the west, the system will have a reach till eastern parts of Arabian peninsula and in the east, some parts of China. In the south, NavIC signals will work till Malaysia," Misra said.

--- [ --- ]

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #67 on: 05/30/2017 07:02 am »
Is the GPS accuracy as bad as 20-30 metres as implied in the article? I thought it was more in the range of 4-7 metres.

Offline dusky

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #68 on: 05/30/2017 08:01 am »
Quote
For example, GPS-enabled smartphones are typically accurate to within a 4.9 m (16 ft.) radius under open sky
http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

With better antennas and dual frequency receivers accuracy can be much better. By using local reference stations <10cm and even <1cm is doable.

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #69 on: 06/10/2017 03:29 pm »
Bad news. More IRNSS sats have started showing trouble if reports are to be believed.

http://wap.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/navigation-satellite-clocks-ticking-system-to-be-expanded-isro-117061000273_1.html

Quote
Sources close to ISRO, on the condition of anonymity, told IANS that two more atomic clocks in the satellite system started showing abnormalities thereby taking the total number of failed clocks to five.

"Hence as a precaution and also to extend the operational life of satellites, the ISRO is running the NavIC system with one clock switched on instead of two. If the running clock fails then the standby clocks will be switched on," sources said.

The initial plan was to keep two clocks in the satellite on while keeping the third one on standby.
Since the trouble started with IRNSS-1A, the first satellite that has been in operation for the longest among the bunch, I fear the issues might be starting to appear in the rest as they operate for progressively longer periods time. They might seriously need to consider the prospect of having to replace the entire constellation and make their contingency plans accordingly.
Quote
"We are already using the NavIC system for several applications. The replacement satellite for IRNSS-1A will be launched in July or August. There are also plans to expand the NavIC system by taking the number of satellites to 11 from seven," Kumar said.
If the atomic clocks keep failing, they are going to busy replacing existing satellites in the near future, rather than expanding the constellation.
Quote
It is learnt that ISRO has got the atomic clocks replaced in the two standby NavIC satellites.
Quote
Misra said it is not only the atomic clocks in the Indian satellite navigation systems that have failed, the clocks in the European system Galileo too have failed as per reports.
Quote
The NavIC system was performing well till the three clocks in IRNSS-1A — the first satellite — failed some months back.
Government would very likely be ready to fund a host of replacement satellites, if it comes to that, considering the strategic importance of the project. But ISRO can expect hard questions from them.
« Last Edit: 06/10/2017 03:31 pm by vineethgk »

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #70 on: 06/14/2017 05:01 pm »
This report quotes the ISRO Chairman as denying there has been further failures of atomic clocks on the constellation other than 1A.
Quote
He rubbished reports that said more atomic clocks have started showing abnormalities.

Either the earlier report of further failures was incorrect, or ISRO has chosen not to acknowledge them for the moment.

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #71 on: 06/16/2017 05:44 pm »
PSLV C39 carrying IRNSS-1H scheduled for late July or early August
Quote
In an attempt to keep India’s regional navigation satellite system fully operational, the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is preparing to launch a back-up for IRNSS-1A, one of the seven satellites in the constellation, that has been hobbled by the failure of the atomic clocks on board.

The PSLV C39 mission, scheduled for late July or early August, will carry the new satellite named IRNSS-1H into orbit, K. Sivan, Director of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, told The Hindu.

Replacing IRNSS-1A became a priority for the ISRO after it was confirmed in January this year that all the three rubidium atomic clocks on board had stopped functioning. The space agency had decided on launching one of the two spare satellites after initial efforts to restart the clocks failed.



Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #72 on: 06/18/2017 05:18 am »
Centre to make indigenous navigation system mandatory for new aircrafts

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CHENNAI: The Centre is soon expected to issue the notification to make GAGAN, the indigenously developed navigation system, mandatory for new aircraft registered in the country from January 1, 2019.

Quote
Speaking to Express, sources in the Ministry of Civil Aviation confirmed that GAGAN (or GPS Aided GEO Augmented Navigation), jointly developed by Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) and the Airports Authority of India, is ready for full optimisation and has obtained an international certification for approach and precision landing operations (APV1/1.5) over the subcontinent.

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Data from this three-satellite constellation for GAGAN – GSAT 8, 10 and 15 – is also useful in perimeter monitoring and identifying boundaries. “It is accurate to one metre,” said Kumar. He added that other user segments such as intelligent transportation, maritime, highways, railways, surveying, geodesy, security agencies, telecom industry and personal users of position location applications can make use of it.

Quote
The system is interoperable with other international systems like the US’ WAAS, European EGNOS, and Japanese MSAS etc. GAGAN’s geo footprint extends from Africa to Australia and has expansion capability for seamless navigation services across the region.

GAGAN provides the additional accuracy, availability, and integrity necessary for all phases of flight, from en route through approach for all qualified airports within the GAGAN service volume.

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #73 on: 06/26/2017 01:06 am »
More reports (quoting 'anonymous' ISRO sources) coming in that 4 more atomic clocks may have failed on IRNSS system other than the three on IRNSS-1A, but other satellites remain functional for now perhaps because the new failures are distributed across multiple satellites.

Quote
ISRO had announced in July last year that all three atomic clocks on IRNSS-1A, the first of the seven satellites that was launched on July 1, 2013, had malfunctioned, rendering that satellite ineffective. Now, sources associated with ISRO’s satellite navigation programme say four more atomic clocks on the other six satellites are not performing as required.
Quote
The subsequent malfunction of four more atomic clocks , sources have indicated, has not incapacitated any other satellite. “Measures are being taken to correct the problems caused by the clocks in the launch of future satellites. The atomic clocks to be used in the other satellites have been modified to prevent malfunction,” a senior official in the programme said.

There is no official acknowledgement of more failures as of now.
Quote
Asked about the failure of the additional clocks, an official ISRO spokesperson said, “We have not been told of any failures other than what has been stated by the ISRO chairman, which is three clocks on IRNSS-1A.”
Source

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #74 on: 07/05/2017 02:44 am »
Europe's Galileo satnav identifies problems behind failing clocks

Quote
Investigators have uncovered the problems behind the failure of atomic clocks onboard satellites belonging to the beleaguered Galileo satnav system, the European Commission said Monday.

For months, the European Space Agency—which runs the programme—has been investigating the reasons behind failing clocks onboard some of the 18 navigation satellites it has launched for Galileo, Europe's alternative to America's GPS system.

Quote
"The main causes of the malfunctions have been identified and measures have been put in place to reduce the possibility of further malfunctions of the satellites already in space," commission spokeswoman Lucia Caudet said.

ESA found after an investigation that its rubidium clocks had a faulty component that could cause a short circuit, according to European sources.

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #75 on: 07/05/2017 02:48 am »
ISRO all set to offer desi GPS for mobile users from next year

Quote
The crucial miniaturisation of chipsets that go into wireless devices such as cell phones and wifi receivers has been achieved by the ISRO.

Quote
As per different applications two different kinds of hardwares are required – digital and RF (radio frequency) front end. “Our semiconductor laboratory (SCL) in Chandigarh has developed the digital hardware and tested it. Now, the RF front end hardware is expected to hit the markets next month,” said Tapan Misra, director of Ahmedabad-based SAC to the Express.

Quote
Initially ISRO invited the industry to design and develop the chipsets. However there was little interest shown because of high investment costs. “The market didn’t want to take the first step. So we took it on ourselves to do it. Our SCL has developed the digital chips and for manufacturing prototypes of RF Front End hardware, we gave the order to Tower Jazz, a US-based firm specialised in silicon germanium technology suited for increasing bandwidth. We are planning to set-up a fabrication facility with silicon germanium processing technology in SCL,” Misra said.

Quote
Misra said the final version would be an 11-channel chipset (7 NavIC satellites and four GPS satellites) operating under dual frequency (S and L bands). This actually delivered higher accuracy than GPS.
“GPS is dependent on L band and atmospheric disturbances affected its performance. To assess the errors, atmospheric models are used which would go erratic. In our case, we measure the difference in delay of dual frequency (S and L bands) and can assess the actual delay. Therefore NavIC is not dependent on any model to find the frequency error and is more accurate than GPS. To be precise, NavIC will provide standard positioning service to all users with a position accuracy of 5 metres. The GPS on the other hand, has a position accuracy of 20-30 metres,” Mishra said.

Offline kanaka

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #76 on: 07/05/2017 05:50 am »
ISRO all set to offer desi GPS for mobile users from next year

Quote
The crucial miniaturisation of chipsets that go into wireless devices such as cell phones and wifi receivers has been achieved by the ISRO.

Quote
As per different applications two different kinds of hardwares are required – digital and RF (radio frequency) front end. “Our semiconductor laboratory (SCL) in Chandigarh has developed the digital hardware and tested it. Now, the RF front end hardware is expected to hit the markets next month,” said Tapan Misra, director of Ahmedabad-based SAC to the Express.

Quote
Initially ISRO invited the industry to design and develop the chipsets. However there was little interest shown because of high investment costs. “The market didn’t want to take the first step. So we took it on ourselves to do it. Our SCL has developed the digital chips and for manufacturing prototypes of RF Front End hardware, we gave the order to Tower Jazz, a US-based firm specialised in silicon germanium technology suited for increasing bandwidth. We are planning to set-up a fabrication facility with silicon germanium processing technology in SCL,” Misra said.

Quote
Misra said the final version would be an 11-channel chipset (7 NavIC satellites and four GPS satellites) operating under dual frequency (S and L bands). This actually delivered higher accuracy than GPS.
“GPS is dependent on L band and atmospheric disturbances affected its performance. To assess the errors, atmospheric models are used which would go erratic. In our case, we measure the difference in delay of dual frequency (S and L bands) and can assess the actual delay. Therefore NavIC is not dependent on any model to find the frequency error and is more accurate than GPS. To be precise, NavIC will provide standard positioning service to all users with a position accuracy of 5 metres. The GPS on the other hand, has a position accuracy of 20-30 metres,” Mishra said.


Hope failed clocks issue will be resolved by that time.

Offline sanjaykumar

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #77 on: 07/06/2017 04:17 am »


India Israel MOU  between ISRO and ISC

1) Building Atomic Clocks
2) Electric propulsion for small sats
3) Geo Leo Links - (no idea what it means)



Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #78 on: 07/06/2017 08:06 am »
3) Geo Leo Links - (no idea what it means)

Could mean a TDRS like system using either radio or laser communications.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline sanjaykumar

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #79 on: 07/07/2017 01:06 am »
^^^

Makes sense, given the fact India & Israel are already collaborating  in Radar technology.


Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #80 on: 07/10/2017 05:59 pm »
http://pib.gov.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=167228

MoU signed between ISRO and ISA regarding cooperation in atomic clocks:
Quote
Plan of Cooperation Between the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) and the Israel Space Agency (ISA) regarding cooperation in Atomic Clocks

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #81 on: 07/10/2017 06:05 pm »
By the way, AccuBeat is the Israeli company that develops atomic clocks for aerospace. Guessing ISRO might go with this vendor for next set of satellites (pure speculation).

Offline maint1234

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #82 on: 07/11/2017 02:35 pm »
Is the supplier of the failed atomic clocks being held financially responsible for the losses  as it's mentioned in this site that the clocks have a tendency to get short circuited ?

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #83 on: 07/12/2017 07:36 am »

By the way, AccuBeat is the Israeli company that develops atomic clocks for aerospace. Guessing ISRO might go with this vendor for next set of satellites (pure speculation).

I thought that India would use its own indigenously developed Atomic Clock for the next series of IRNSS Satellites in the middle of 2025s or later. What is the need for joint development of Atomic Clocks with Israel when ISRO's Lab Satellite Application Center ( SAC ) along with NPL India is in the throes of developing its own ? I think, it is Modi's so-called Make in India Drive that will shut this indigenous efforts. Following are links of some reports that appeared in 2015 quoting ISRO Chairman A. S. Kiran Kumar regarding the indigenous development Rubidium Atomic Clocks.

Quote
The Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) is developing rubidium-based, high-precision atomic clocks for use in its next series of navigation satellites, ISRO Chairman A.S. Kiran Kumar said on Wednesday.

The ISRO’s Space Applications Centre in Ahmedabad is developing prototypes of atomic clocks, along with the CSIR’s National Physical Laboratory in New Delhi, Dr. Kiran Kumar said on the sidelines of an event organised by the Metrology Society here.

"We still have to make qualified and flight-worthy versions. Our next generation navigation satellites will carry our own clocks" when they start replacing the IRNSS-1 series after their life of 10 years, he said.

A senior scientist says the atomic clock figures among the top critical technologies to be developed indigenously.

Source : India developing atomic clocks for use on satellites

Quote
Kumar said ISRO was also in the process of indigenously developing atomic clock for its next generation navigation satellites. Currently, it is procuring atomic clocks from Europe.

"Right now the prototypes are getting developed; we have to make it into qualified version and then flight worthy version. Our next generation navigation satellite will carry our own atomic clock," he added.

Source : ISRO planning next inter-planetary mission

Quote
CSIR-NPL has developed and transferred the critical technology of Rubidium atomic clock for space applications to ISRO. A model has been developed at CSIR-NPL and is undergoing further developments at Satellite Applications Center before being integrated in the payload of the Indian Regional Navigation Satellite system.

Source : Rubidium Atomic Clock for Space

So, it is quite obvious that this indigenous effort will be put on the backburner because of Modi's Make in India Drive in which so-called joint development between India and Israel. It is a matter of observation   whether Israel would transfer the complete technology to India or an Indian company would engage in nutbolt-screwdriver efforts. But I will keep my finger crossed.

--- [ --- ]

Offline kanaka

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #84 on: 08/04/2017 03:06 am »

By the way, AccuBeat is the Israeli company that develops atomic clocks for aerospace. Guessing ISRO might go with this vendor for next set of satellites (pure speculation).

I thought that India would use its own indigenously developed Atomic Clock for the next series of IRNSS Satellites in the middle of 2025s or later. What is the need for joint development of Atomic Clocks with Israel when ISRO's Lab Satellite Application Center ( SAC ) along with NPL India is in the throes of developing its own ? I think, it is Modi's so-called Make in India Drive that will shut this indigenous efforts. Following are links of some reports that appeared in 2015 quoting ISRO Chairman A. S. Kiran Kumar regarding the indigenous development Rubidium Atomic Clocks.

Quote
The Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) is developing rubidium-based, high-precision atomic clocks for use in its next series of navigation satellites, ISRO Chairman A.S. Kiran Kumar said on Wednesday.

The ISRO’s Space Applications Centre in Ahmedabad is developing prototypes of atomic clocks, along with the CSIR’s National Physical Laboratory in New Delhi, Dr. Kiran Kumar said on the sidelines of an event organised by the Metrology Society here.

"We still have to make qualified and flight-worthy versions. Our next generation navigation satellites will carry our own clocks" when they start replacing the IRNSS-1 series after their life of 10 years, he said.

A senior scientist says the atomic clock figures among the top critical technologies to be developed indigenously.

Source : India developing atomic clocks for use on satellites

Quote
Kumar said ISRO was also in the process of indigenously developing atomic clock for its next generation navigation satellites. Currently, it is procuring atomic clocks from Europe.

"Right now the prototypes are getting developed; we have to make it into qualified version and then flight worthy version. Our next generation navigation satellite will carry our own atomic clock," he added.

Source : ISRO planning next inter-planetary mission

Quote
CSIR-NPL has developed and transferred the critical technology of Rubidium atomic clock for space applications to ISRO. A model has been developed at CSIR-NPL and is undergoing further developments at Satellite Applications Center before being integrated in the payload of the Indian Regional Navigation Satellite system.

Source : Rubidium Atomic Clock for Space

So, it is quite obvious that this indigenous effort will be put on the backburner because of Modi's Make in India Drive in which so-called joint development between India and Israel. It is a matter of observation   whether Israel would transfer the complete technology to India or an Indian company would engage in nutbolt-screwdriver efforts. But I will keep my finger crossed.

--- [ --- ]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/desi-gps-may-become-a-reality-soon-as-isro-to-sign-mou-with-csir-npl/articleshow/59903879.cms

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #85 on: 08/05/2017 03:02 am »
IRNSS-1H to carry atomic clocks from the same Swiss manufacturer as it has corrected the hardware problem
Quote
Indian Space Research Organisation will soon launch a replacement navigation satellite fitted with corrected atomic clocks to make up for the crippled satellite, IRNSS-1A.
Quote
Its launch became imperative after all three rubidium atomic clocks on IRNSS-1A failed in mid-2016, Mr. Kumar told The Hindu. Three more clocks failed later across the fleet of seven satellites, which together had 21 atomic clocks.
Quote
“We had problems with all [three] clocks in 1A and needed to bring in the replacement,” Mr. Kumar said, adding that the manufacturer had corrected the problem for the clocks in the new spacecraft. An internal committee had identified the cause of 1A’s failure. The new clocks are identical to the old ones.”
Quote
The clocks for ISRO’s NavIC and the European Space Agency's first 18 Galileo satellites came from the same Swiss company and developed similar problems around the same time. The two agencies had compared their navigation troubles. Mr. Kumar said the hardware solution was also similar for the two agencies.
« Last Edit: 08/05/2017 03:04 am by vineethgk »

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #86 on: 08/07/2017 03:38 am »
That's good to hear. Hopefully, ISRO will still continue to pursue indigenous atomic clocks.

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #87 on: 08/10/2017 04:08 pm »
IRNSS-1H to move to Sriharikota on Aug-12, VSSC Director hints at the launch of IRNSS-1I later this year
Quote
"The satellite is ready to move from our centre to Sriharikota on August 12 on a special vehicle for integration with the rocket at the space centre," said Annadurai on the margins of a technology event.

The launch authorization board will decide on the date and time after all the checks were completed during the window for the launch schedule.
Quote
The space agency plans to launch an additional space navigation satellite later this year to augment the services of the Rs 1,420 crore NavIC.

"The two spare navigation satellites will make up for any shortfall in the operations and service provided by NavIC to the users round-the-clock over the next 10 years," added Sivan.

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #88 on: 09/03/2017 06:30 am »
Despite the gloom looming over the ill-fated IRNSS-1H Satellite that had failed to go into orbit, because of the failure of the Heat Shield to get separated, VSSC Director confirmed that indigenous atomic clocks are under development.

Source : Weight issue not linked to PSLV heat shield glitch: Isro chief

Quote
The unsuccessful launch has necessitated the urgent launch of the ninth navigation satellite IRNSS-1I. Dr Sivan said the "standby ninth satellite will be launched soon".

Dr Sivan also said that the "process to make indigenous atomic clocks has started within the country" by a government organisation. He, however, said that the navigation system is very much operational and is not affected.

--- [ --- ]

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #89 on: 09/10/2017 07:37 pm »
Rubidium Atomic Clock for Space

Quote
CSIR-NPL has developed and transferred the critical technology of Rubidium atomic clock for space applications to ISRO. A model has been developed at CSIR-NPL and is undergoing further developments at Satellite Applications Center before being integrated in the payload of the Indian Regional Navigation Satellite system.

Further critical process for development of glass technology of Rubidium bulbs and cells is under development at CSIR-NPL for making the indigenization of space clocks complete.


Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #90 on: 09/21/2017 04:38 pm »
Assembly of IRNSS-1I started, targeted for May 2018 as per original plan. No decision yet on building yet another backup
Quote
Is the Assembly of 1I being advanced? Back in December, the consortium of six industries was given six months to work on each spacecraft. The deadline for IRNSS-1I was around May 2018. Dr. Annadurai said that as of now, the timeline was the same. The launch of 1I, when it was ready, would also have to align with ISRO’s other missions, he said.
« Last Edit: 09/21/2017 04:41 pm by vineethgk »

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #91 on: 04/09/2018 11:38 pm »
ISRO working with mobile phone manufacturers to explore the possibility of incorporating NavIC receivers as an integral component during phone manufacturing.

Currently they are supplying a standalone unit that can be connected to the mobile device through an app via bluetooth to supply positional data, cyclone alerts etc for fishermen out at sea.

Quote
Isro chairman Sivan said the receiver will be connected to the mobile phones of fishermen through Bluetooth. They will receive text messages on their position at sea, weather alerts and potential fishing zones. Fishermen need to download an application on their phones to decode and display the text messages.

The satellites’ receiver comes with three components- a chipset, a microcontroller and a Bluetooth module. The receiver, developed by Isro’s Space Applications Centre, Ahmedabad, is also being improved to save power in both mobile and the device.

Isro chairman said, “We are working with mobile phone manufacturers to see if they can incorporate the receiver as a component during manufacturing. Right now, these receivers are available as a separate unit and it can be used in many other applications including as a navigation device in vehicles.”

Source

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #92 on: 04/12/2018 04:14 am »
ISRO considering a new generation of NavIC/IRNSS sats after IRNSS-1I to improve accuracy
Quote
ISRO Chairman K Sivan told Express on the eve of the launch that IRNSS-1I will be the last in the current ‘approved’ navigation satellite series. “There is a plan for a new IRNSS series. We are working on it and will be submitting a proposal before the Centre. It will be a totally new project,” he said. Sivan said it would be an extension of IRNSS project. Currently, various modalities are being working out like on number of satellites, on board technologies etc. “The idea is to improve the accuracy of services further and also have enough back-up satellites in space just in case there is a situation where one stops functioning like it happened with IRNSS-1A.
Quote
To a query, he said the new IRNSS series is not meant to extend its coverage beyond the regional boundaries.
Quote
“This (coverage) will not change much. It will be only a regional system, but the accuracy will improve,” he said.

The new generation IRNSS might also have the locally-built Rb atomic clocks as one of its distinguishing features.

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #93 on: 05/06/2018 01:59 am »
ISRO has sought govt approval to launch four more IRNSS satellites equipped with indigenous Rb atomic clocks. 9 out of 21 of the imported SpectraTime clocks in the in-orbit satellites are reported to have failed so far.

Quote
In view of the cascade of failing imported atomic clocks — nine out of the 21 clocks in the fleet have failed — ISRO has decided to add buffers to the NavIC by adding four more satellites. It hopes to have an indigenous atomic clock in each of them. “We are in the process of getting approval [from the government] for at least another four IRNSS satellites,” ISRO Chairman K.Sivan told The Hindu, confirming the failure of clocks. “However, they will have some advanced technology, apart from the atomic clocks developed by ISRO.”
Quote
The indigenous atomic clock is being developed by the Space Applications Centre, Ahmedabad, Mr. Sivan said, adding that once it passes qualification tests, “We will first demonstrate the indigenous clock in an upcoming navigation satellite, along with the imported ones. Work on them is going on in full steam.”
Quote
Until a few months ago, three more satellites were said to have suffered “one or two dysfunctional clocks” each, while two satellites did not have any problematic clocks.
Quote
ISRO is concerned that if more clocks fail, it may render the ₹1,400-crore fleet a dud in space.

Source
« Last Edit: 05/06/2018 02:00 am by vineethgk »

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #94 on: 05/06/2018 09:11 pm »
The following Times Of India reports say that ISRO has developed an indigenous atomic clock which is undergoing tests and will be used in the Backup Navigation Satellites.

source :
Isro develops desi atomic clock, to be used in navigation satellites

Quote
In a significant development, Indian Space Research Organisation ( Isro ) has developed an atomic clock that will be used in navigation satellites to measure precise location data. The space agency currently imports atomic clocks from European aerospace manufacturer Astrium for its navigation satellites.

Quote
Tapan Misra, director of Ahmedabad-based Space Applications Centre (SAC), said, "SAC has developed an indigenous atomic clock and this clock is currently undergoing a series of qualification tests. Once it successfully clears all tests, the desi atomic clock will be used in an experimental navigation satellite to test its accuracy and durability in space."

Quote
The SAC director said, "With the development of the desi atomic clock, Isro has become one of the few space organisations in the world which have gained the capability to develop this highly sophisticated technology. We don't know the design and technology of the imported atomic clock. But the desi clock has been developed based on our designs and specifications. This clock is as good as the imported one. We are hopeful that it will easily work for more than five years.".

Quote
According to a reliable source in Isro, nine of the 21 atomic clocks used in some of the seven navigation satellites launched are showing error. Isro is, therefore, planning to launch four backup navigation satellites to keep the Navigation with Indian Constellation (NaVIC) effective. These backup satellites, which are likely to have indigenous atomic clocks too, will add buffer to the desi GPS system. "Isro will first need financial clearance from the government for the backup satellites," says the source.

--- [ --- ]

Offline vineethgk

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #95 on: 05/16/2018 11:18 pm »
Qualification model of indigenous Rb atomic clock in 'testing-review' phase.

Planning to test its 'space robustness' by December in a satellite with 3 other imported clocks, says SAC Director.

Quote
“The first model which is called the qualification model is currently in the testing-review phase…. By December this year we plan to send one of these clocks along with three others mounted on a satellite. Usually, three atomic clocks go with every satellite. We will be sending four, wherein the fourth one will be the one we have developed indigenously. This will help us to see how robust is our technology. The real proof of its success can be guaged by seeing how it actually functions in space,” Misra added.
Quote
The clock will be mounted on a satellite once ISRO’s Quality Assurance Group provides it with the necessary certification.

Source

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #96 on: 05/31/2018 06:16 am »
Phase-I trials of early warning system at unmanned crossings over: ISRO

Quote
The trials for the phase-I of a satellite-based early warning system, to alert road users against approaching trains at unmanned level crossings of the Indian Railways network, have been completed successfully, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) officials said on Thursday. They said that the system is ready for implementation.

Quote
"The trial for Phase-I has finished. We have begun discussions with them (Indian Railways). They are very satisfied with the technology. They have seen it performing. They have seen its variants and so they are going to implement it soon," said Tapan Misra, director of the Space Applications Centre (SAC), a crucial arm of ISRO.

Quote
Under the project, integrated circuit (IC) chips, developed by ISRO, will be installed on train engines. These chips will send a signal to hooters installed at the level crossings with the engine at a distance of four km from the crossing. These hooters, linked to the Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS) or NaVIC will become louder as trains approach the crossings and will fall silent once the trains have passed.

Quote
"This technology can work in any weather, including rains and harsh summer. This was one of the biggest challenges and we have emerged successful in all-weather operations," Misra added.

--- [ --- ]

Offline maint1234

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #97 on: 06/02/2018 12:25 pm »
Wonder how this hooter system will work in remote areas with no or patchy electricity for the hooters . Batteries will be too labour and material intensive and prone to pilferage.
Best is do what china has done and eliminate all crossings by over or underbridges.

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #98 on: 06/06/2018 05:40 pm »
Wonder how this hooter system will work in remote areas with no or patchy electricity for the hooters . Batteries will be too labour and material intensive and prone to pilferage.
Best is do what china has done and eliminate all crossings by over or underbridges.

Solar powered, perhaps?

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #99 on: 06/10/2018 07:59 am »
Satellites are in the sky, but long way to go before average Indians get Desi GPS
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/satellites-are-in-the-sky-but-long-way-to-go-before-average-indians-get-desi-gps/articleshow/64506628.cms

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With the launch of seven satellites, Isro's aim of giving India its own version of the Global Positioning System (GPS) was realised and the NavIC is very much operational. However, indigenously developed systems to tap data from this constellation and to take it to lakhs of Indians through a variety of applications are not yet ready.

While a Bengaluru-based firm, Accord Software and Systems Private Limited, along with Isro developed technology that can receive signals from the IRNSS satellites, compute location and also decode its broadcast message as early as 2016, it is only useful for agencies and organisations.

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Also, Isro has already developed a micro chipset to be used for navigation purpose and designed a miniaturised version of the micro chipset to be used in navigation devices. The space agency is also working on chipsets for very small navigation devices. However, the industry is yet to mass produce these receivers and chipsets, given that there is no apparent demand as most users prefer GPS.

Also, technology as seamless as the ones used to tap GPS is not yet ready, and Isro chairman S Sivan has reiterated that it is now for the industry to make the best use of the applications the constellation can provide.

--- [ --- ]

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #100 on: 06/24/2018 04:56 am »
India's desi GPS 'NavIC' all set to navigate you

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Soon, your smartphones and car navigation systems may take directions from NavIC, the government's desi global positioning system (GPS) that has been developed to challenge the current GPS system of the West.

NavIC, an ambitious project pursued by the Modi government, is in the final stages of launch, and could soon be offered as an Indian counter to foreign systems currently being used by companies and other users.

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Sawhney said that the smartphones that are currently being sold in the country depend on foreign GPS systems. "Once we are officially there, the NavIC can be embedded on chips and other devices as well as on vehicle navigation systems."

With seven satellites, the NavIC covers only India and its surroundings and is considered to be more accurate than the American system. NavIC will provide standard positioning service to all users with a position accuracy of 5 metre. The GPS, on the other hand, has a position accuracy of 20-30 metre.

Even more remarkable for Indian scientists is that NavIC is technically superior to the American GPS. "Our system has dual frequency (S and L bands). GPS is dependent only on L band.

--- [ --- ]

Offline Langley

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #101 on: 06/25/2018 02:04 pm »
"The GPS, on the other hand, has a position accuracy of 20-30 metre.

"Even more remarkable for Indian scientists is that NavIC is technically superior to the American GPS. "Our system has dual frequency (S and L bands). GPS is dependent only on L band."

Incorrect or misleading statements here. Single-frequency, pseudorange-based GPS positioning can achieve better than 5-metre accuracy under good conditions. Also, civil GPS is triple frequency! There are civil signal at L1, L2, and L5.

-- (Prof.) Richard Langley
 

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #102 on: 09/23/2018 08:22 am »
India launches UTRAQ, first 'desi' version of GPS module based on ISRO's IRNSS

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India has launched its very own GPS module. Known as 'UTRAQ', the module was introduced at an event in New Delhi, MobileTek and Rama Krishna Electro Pvt Ltd UTRAQ is a VTS module based on IRNSS to track locations. India, so far, had the GPS based applications in devices that were based on the feed given by US satellites.

L110 GNSS and L100 GNSS are the two modules launched. The L110 GNSS  module is a compact NavIC module, while the L100 GNSS module is a smaller-sized POT (Patch on Top) IRNSS module. These modules can be used for different tasks other than tracking. These include ranging, command, control, timing and more.

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The 'desi' VTS module's concept was first initiated for services and devices soon after tge Kargil War in 1999. The VTS module which is a part of IRNSS was pushed for when Pakistan troops took positions in Kargil. India, then asked for the GPS location data that was being handled by the US satellites. US refused to help India during the war situation. The GPS-based data by the US would’ve given some vital information, helping India manage the situation and control the damage.

UTRAQ's launch will help ISRO systems to provide accurate data without any dependency on foreign satellites. IRNSS is also said to provide the positioning for the Indian region 1500km around the Indian mainland as the primary service area.  The UTRAQ modules support L1 and L5 bands, EPOTM orbit prediction, EASYTM self-generated orbit prediction and measures 18x16x2.3mm. 

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Offline worldtimedate

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #104 on: 01/02/2019 06:44 am »
Bengaluru to host ground station for Russian GPS

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Even as the work on having India's own navigation system using the Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS) or NavIC satellites is going on in full swing, the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) is gearing up to host a ground station for the Russian version of global positioning system - Global Navigation Satellite System (Glonass).

Officials said Bengaluru was selected largely because the city has the Isro telemetry, tracking and command network (Istrac). Istrac will host the Russian station too, said an official, adding that the "ground- measurement gathering station" will extend the existing partnership between Isro and Roscosmos, the Russian space agency. "The station will help get accurate locations and refine the satellite information," said Isro chairman Sivan K.

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"The NavIC station in Russia will help enhance the baseline for orbit determination and of Ionosphere delays to improve the accuracy of the navigation solution," said a source. While Isro has put the satellites in space, the lack of indigenously developed systems to tap data from this constellation and take it to lakhs of Indians are not ready yet.

Bengaluru firm, Accord Software and Systems Private Ltd, along with Isro, has developed technology that can receive signals from the IRNSS satellites, compute locations and also decode its broadcast message as early as 2016. Also, Isro has designed a miniaturised version of the micro chipset to be used in navigation devices. However, the industry is yet to mass produce these receivers and chipsets, given that there is no apparent demand as most users prefer GPS.

Offline chetan_chpd

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #105 on: 01/18/2019 01:57 pm »
NaVIC/IRNSS
1. "It is very much operational", says K.Sivan.
2. Being used "for many operators including defense sector"
3. Fishermen are using it, Govt. companies are using it "to check coal pilferage and illegal sand mining"
4. NaVIC chipset for mobile patented.
5. ISRO in talks with mobile companies for this.
6. "In a year" mobile phones in india "hopefully" have this navigation.
7. Govt. "can make it mandatory" for mobile companies.


(ISRO chairman press conference highlights
https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-isro-chairman-press.html)
« Last Edit: 01/18/2019 01:58 pm by chetan_chpd »

Offline chetan_chpd

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #106 on: 01/28/2019 05:04 am »
source: ANI/IDRW

Confirming one of the points in above list, PM Modi said in his monthly radio address to the nation, "government has distributed NAVIC devices to fishermen" which indicates that IRNSS/NAVIC system is up and running.

(https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-pm-modi-on-indias-moon.html)

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #107 on: 01/30/2019 01:20 am »
Soon, NaVIC handsets to bring fishermen under safety net

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In an effort to improve the safety of fishermen and strengthen the capacity to reach out to them quickly in case of unexpected calamities, the Fisheries Department is planning to distribute around 500 NaVIC handsets, the regional satellite navigation system developed by the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), among them. Though the equipment actually costs about 8,000, the fisherman will have to spend only 1,500 to get it.

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Officials said the NaVIC handsets would help fishers get updates on extreme weather events with the support of regional control rooms and help rescue operators trace their location in case of rescue needs. It would also be helpful for fishers to get update on shoals, they added. The new device with bigger coverage area will help fishers overcome poor signal threat while using mobile phones. On such occasions, the mobile phones could be connected to the device using the bluetooth function. The device was developed following a request from the State government after studying the impact of Ockhi-related calamities.

Offline chetan_chpd

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #108 on: 02/01/2019 04:39 am »
News update: ISRO's Pseudo Satellites for Navigation?

*IRNSS renamed as NavIC is a success (?)
*ISRO working towards Pseudolite Based Navigation System (PBNS)
*Pseudolite or Pseudo Satellites are ground based device
*this is to benefit aerospace industry, various aircrafts, drones(-their navigation)
*experiments are in progress
*this info is provided by former ISRO chairman, AS Kiran Kumar
*occasion was his lecture(?): ‘Indian Space Programme and Future Technologies Needed to Grounded Aerospace Activities’ ahead of 'Aero India 2019'
*on NavIC, he said, "an international chip manufacturer had already developed a microchip that can access global coordinates"
*“There is a phone in the market that uses it for navigation”, he added. More phones may follow as he hinted later

i wonder which phone was he talking about?
guy's do you really feel that NavIC is a complete success? i think its still 'work in progress'.
which "international" chip manufacture could that be?

(https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-isros-pseudo-satellites-for.html)

Offline advaidhya

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #109 on: 03/25/2019 04:08 am »
News update: ISRO's Pseudo Satellites for Navigation?

*IRNSS renamed as NavIC is a success (?)
*ISRO working towards Pseudolite Based Navigation System (PBNS)
*Pseudolite or Pseudo Satellites are ground based device
*this is to benefit aerospace industry, various aircrafts, drones(-their navigation)
*experiments are in progress
*this info is provided by former ISRO chairman, AS Kiran Kumar
*occasion was his lecture(?): ‘Indian Space Programme and Future Technologies Needed to Grounded Aerospace Activities’ ahead of 'Aero India 2019'
*on NavIC, he said, "an international chip manufacturer had already developed a microchip that can access global coordinates"
*“There is a phone in the market that uses it for navigation”, he added. More phones may follow as he hinted later

i wonder which phone was he talking about?
guy's do you really feel that NavIC is a complete success? i think its still 'work in progress'.
which "international" chip manufacture could that be?

(https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-isros-pseudo-satellites-for.html)

What is there to be work in progress? NAVIC is already a success. It is used in Indian army as well as Indian shipping and boating vessels. It is limited to regions of about 5000km radius from India due to it not having global constellation.

Making chips of 180nm is already available in India. This is 2002 technology and hence is still usable. As a result, all Indian boats will get this system so as to maintain their route and prevent entering enemy waters

Offline PonRam

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #110 on: 10/15/2019 12:14 pm »

Offline chetan_chpd

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Offline sanman

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #112 on: 10/31/2020 05:10 am »
Now that India has signed the BECA agreement with the United States, then what impact will that have on IRNSS/NAVIC?

Because America's GPS system provides more accurate and more extensive spatial navigation data, then is IRNSS then merely relegated to a marginal backup role?


Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #113 on: 09/06/2021 04:41 am »
Indian Satellite Navigation Policy 2021 (draft): https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/satnav_policy-29.pdf

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #114 on: 07/04/2022 05:49 pm »
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/04-jul-2022/dpiit-has-launched-navic-grand-challenge-startups

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Jul 04, 2022
DPIIT has launched NavIC grand challenge for startups

Department for Promotion of Industry and Internal Trade (DPIIT), along with ISRO, has launched the NavIC Grand Challenge for Indian startups. The challenge involves development of indigenous NavIC-enabled drones to capture data of damage caused to farms, processing of the data, and making it available for use for commercial purposes. ISRO experts will be provide technical guidance to the short-listed startups. Last date for filing application is 31st July 2022. For more details, visit www.startupindia.gov.in.

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #115 on: 07/10/2022 05:52 pm »
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/09-dec-2021/isro-and-oppo-india-to-work-towards-providing-navic-messaging-services-mobile

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Dec 09, 2021
ISRO and OPPO India to work towards providing NavIC messaging services in mobile platforms


NavIC system, in addition to its primary function of providing PNT services, is also capable of broadcasting short messages. This messaging service is being used for broadcasting safety-of-life alerts in areas with poor or no communication, particularly in the oceans.

Indian Space Research Organisation has entered into Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with OPPO India to exchange technical information of NavIC messaging services. This will enable integrating NavIC messaging service with the mobile handset platform keeping in mind the need of Indian users.

Secretary, DOS / Chairman, ISRO appreciated the efforts of OPPO India in scaling NavIC application through their innovative R&D initiatives. He also urged them to include NavIC in all their upcoming mobile platforms that use location based solutions.

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #116 on: 07/10/2022 05:53 pm »
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1785119

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TDB supports development and production of receiver modules essential for an app that provides navigation support
Posted On: 25 DEC 2021 3:42PM by PIB Delhi


India will soon develop and manufacture receiver modules essential for the NavIC (NAVigation with Indian Constellation), an application developed by ISRO for constellation of seven satellites that, together, provide navigation support over India and 1,500 km around it. Support for scaling up this technology, which is also essential for GPS (Global Positioning Systems)s will be a significant step in positioning India as a global hub for Electronics System Design and Manufacturing following the vision of the Prime Minister.

Technology Development Board, a statutory body of Department of Science & Technology, Government of India, has approved financial support to Hyderabad based Manjeera Digital Systems Private Limited (MDS), a Digital Signal Processing (DSP), Research & Development company, which aims to design next-generation computing architectures for high-performance computing for manufacturing of receiver modules in bulk which will be essential for the NavIC App. This could help establish India’s technological leadership in the areas of strategic importance and economic self-reliance.

The company has also designed and fabricated a baseband processor using patented Universal Multifunctional Accelerator (UMA). This UMA can be used in generic Digital Signal Processing (DSP) applications such as Server Acceleration, Edge Computing, Node Computing, Computer Vision, Signal Processing, etc.

“TDB has played a pivotal role in developing conducive ecosystems for growth of technology companies, be it Startups, MSMEs, or established companies. We, at TDB, are geared up for taking up challenges in the niche technologies of national interest like semiconductors, green hydrogen, defense, aerospace & similar sectors,” Sh. Rajesh Kumar Pathak, IP&TAFS, Secretary, TDB, pointed out.

The company’s CEO, Dr. Venu Kandadai, said, “TDB’s assistance, at this juncture, is timely and of immense help in speeding its efforts in development and commercialization of indigenous products. We, at Manjeera, plan to design and develop many such chips that will contribute to the country’s initiatives for self-reliance in electronic chip design and development.”

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #117 on: 07/10/2022 05:56 pm »
https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/article-files/irnss-programme/navic_gagan_up_phaseii_may2022_final.pdf

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Announcement of Opportunity for NavIC-GAGAN Data Utilization Program: Phase II

Space Applications Centre (SAC), Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO), Department of Space (DOS), Government of India, declares an “Announcement of Opportunity (AO)” to carry out scientific research under next Phase of “IRNSS/GAGAN Data Utilization Program”, hereby called as NavIC GAGAN UP Phase II after completion of earlier phase i.e. NavIC GAGAN UP Phase I.

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Deadline for submission of proposals: 15 July, 2022
Notification of evaluation results to Principal Investigators (PIs): 31 July, 2022
Budget/Grant Approval: August, 2022
Annual Review of the Proposals: Once in every calendar year

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #118 on: 07/10/2022 06:33 pm »
NavIC (IRNSS) Standard Positioning Service (SPS) performance reports - Q2-Q4 2019, and Q1-Q4 2021.

2021 Standard Positioning Service (SPS) performance reports mention this:
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IRNSS 1G is not available for performance evaluation since October 05, 2019.
IRNSS 1E is not available for performance evaluation since August 04, 2021.

The plots in this report contain ~80% of monthly data due to unavailability of IRNSS 1E and 1G. DOP degradation is expected on remaining ~20% of data.

Not sure if IRNSS-1E and IRNSS-1G were just not available for tests, or if there's something wrong with them  ??? :-\
« Last Edit: 07/10/2022 06:39 pm by vyoma »

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS discussion
« Reply #119 on: 07/10/2022 06:48 pm »
IRNSS  Performance  Evaluation  of  SPS  Services on  Military Aircraft [2022-05-11]: https://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/index.php/dsj/article/view/17120

Note: L1+L5 row in the below table corresponds to IRNSS+GPS combined or hybrid mode operation.

Offline vyoma

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Re: NavIC/IRNSS and GAGAN SBAS - General Discussion
« Reply #120 on: 07/25/2022 06:48 pm »
https://www.fortuneindia.com/multimedia/gagan-satellite-based-aircraft-landing-in-3-5-years-scindia/109068

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“Right now, our Instrument Landing System (ILS) and the CAT system are all radar controlled. But we are now employing GAGAN, which is a satellite-based technology. We have used it on two or three aircraft in the last three months. The vectors were fixed by satellite movements.”

Quote
“Using the satellite technology, we will be able to pull an aircraft into the airport, as opposed to the ground radar. That will take a lot of burden off the ATC operators and ground radar. I see that happening in the next three to five years. So that’s one area where we are using satellite technology in civil aviation,” Scindia added.

Offline vyoma

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Re: ISRO NavIC/IRNSS and GAGAN SBAS - General Discussion
« Reply #121 on: 09/15/2023 06:41 pm »
https://www.business-standard.com/industry/news/govt-considering-making-navic-mandatory-everything-you-need-to-know-123091500232_1.html [Sep 14 2023]

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The government is likely to make Navigation with Indian Constellation (NavIC) support mandatory for smartphones sold in India. Minister of State for Electronic and Information Technology (MeitY) Rajeev Chandrashekhar has said that all 5G phones would be required to support NavIC by January 1, 2025, The Indian Express (IE) has reported. Earlier, the government had already convinced Apple to support NavIC in some new iPhone 15 models.

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"In line with the incentives that we have announced under the IT hardware production-linked incentive (PLI) scheme, where cashback to companies can significantly go up if they use India-designed or -manufactured chips in their systems, we will extend the same idea to the smartphone PLI as well for using domestic chips that support NavIC," Chandrasekhar was quoted in the report.

Offline vyoma

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Re: ISRO NavIC/IRNSS and GAGAN SBAS - General Discussion
« Reply #122 on: 09/15/2023 06:42 pm »
https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/12/apple-iphone-navic/ [September 12, 2023]

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Apple has extended support for NavIC to some of the new iPhone 15 models, seemingly complying with New Delhi’s push to adopt India’s home-grown alternative to the GPS navigation system.

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On the tech specs page of the iPhone 15 Pro and the iPhone 15 Pro Max, Apple says that the new models support NavIC. This is the first time Apple has added support for NavIC to any of its iPhone models. However, the company has not specified which features will be included in the deployment. An Apple spokesperson didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

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