Author Topic: History of Soviet/Russian space program  (Read 9000 times)

Offline Justin Space

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History of Soviet/Russian space program
« on: 12/30/2005 06:38 pm »
I thought I'd start a thread on when Russia started their space program, if it was a direct result to the US program, if the US program as a direct result of the Soviet program, etc.

Were the launch facility always based at Baikonour, Kazakhstan in the same way KSC is to NASA?

How did the Soviets lose to the United States after the Soviets had the first man in space and seemed to be leading the way?

Things like that :)

Offline lmike

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #1 on: 12/30/2005 06:49 pm »
Ouch!  Now, here's a long topic... ;) Good primer: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/rockets.html (Tsiolkovski, GIRD, Korolyov, space elevator, the Rocket Equation, and Glushko are a few of the terms every spacenut ought to know about)

Online Chris Bergin

RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #2 on: 12/30/2005 07:06 pm »
The Soviet version of the Saturn V for the Moon mission was the N1 - different to the Saturn V in many ways (lots more engines etc.) but blew up on all test flights :(

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=397
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Offline lmike

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #3 on: 12/30/2005 07:10 pm »
If you can get your hands on the Boris Chertok's 'Rockets and Men' in English ( a NASA edition?!) you'll get a lot of insight.  Part of it was economics, part technology right after WW2 when Russia was devastated, part politics, enourmous internal 'politiking' between Glushko and Korolyov... Stalin..., Kirov, lots more stuff...  (from my own observations based on literature and accounts I'd add, the engineers themselves were top-notch)  They had a go with what they had... (including the German tech like the V2 pumps and gyros which every ally laid its hands on)

Offline Terry Rocket

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #4 on: 12/30/2005 07:58 pm »
The N1 looks mean! Did they ever find out why it kept failing?

Offline lmike

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #5 on: 12/30/2005 08:37 pm »
At first glance -- asynchronous thrust (32 engines on the first stage!) , an engine shuts down and the thing falls over, coupled with untested control (the KORD system **ed up), but these are just consequences... a rush job... Glushko wanted to do a high thrust kerosene engine (like the F-1) , Korolyov had his own ideas, and orders from above... They argued... The death of that proverbial locomotive - Korolyov - right in the middle of the project didn't help any either... neither did the weak funding that was cut out altogether after the 4th failure of the N-1.

Offline David AF

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #6 on: 12/30/2005 11:52 pm »
I remember reading once that Korolyov's successor was so strained at the responsability of during Korolyov's illness and death that it drove him to drink, leading to the top Cosmonauts going to the Kremlin to ask for his removal? Was that Valentin Petrovitch Glushko?

Korolyov's illness also saw him nearly collapse during an argument over the whether to use engines that used the same propellant as the Saturn rockets, while at a top Soviet rocket scientist's house, who he approached as the scientist has the ear of the Kremlin.
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Online Chris Bergin

RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #7 on: 12/30/2005 11:58 pm »
Sergey Pavlovich Korolyov, a great man. Saw a fantastic documentary about him on the BBC just about half a year ago.

Apparently died during an operation in hospital aged 59.

His true identity was never releaved...until his death, where he gained a full state funeral and finally the Soviet people got to honour him properly.
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Online Chris Bergin

RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #8 on: 12/31/2005 12:00 am »
Quote
David AF - 31/12/2005  12:52 AM

I remember reading once that Korolyov's successor.....leading to the top Cosmonauts going to the Kremlin to ask for his removal? Was that Valentin Petrovitch Glushko?

I believe you're talking about Vassily Mishin. Glushko took over from Mishin.
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Offline Dana

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #9 on: 12/31/2005 12:16 am »
Y'all should check out Asif A. Siddiqi's work on the Soviet space program. Originally one huge book, AMazon has it in a 2-volume set, available either separately or as a set: "Sputnik and the Soviet Space Challenge" and "The Soviet Race With Apollo."
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Offline Terrible Twosome

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #10 on: 12/31/2005 02:57 am »
Lots of respect to the way the Soviets competed. It's never been easy with the cash.

Offline Sergi Manstov

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #11 on: 12/31/2005 04:09 am »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 30/12/2005  6:58 PM

Sergey Pavlovich Korolyov, a great man. Saw a fantastic documentary about him on the BBC just about half a year ago.

Apparently died during an operation in hospital aged 59.

His true identity was never releaved...until his death, where he gained a full state funeral and finally the Soviet people got to honour him properly.

Yes, it was a faulty operation :(

Offline Hotol

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #12 on: 12/31/2005 01:44 pm »
It certainly is a facinating history. It would appear personal issues were one of the main reasons for their unsuccessful venture for a manned Moon mission.

Offline SpaceCat

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #13 on: 12/31/2005 05:39 pm »
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Hotol - 31/12/2005  9:44 AM

It certainly is a facinating history. It would appear personal issues were one of the main reasons for their unsuccessful venture for a manned Moon mission.

I'd say it was more political than personal- when you have incredibly brilliant men like Korolyev having to justify the program and funding with a stuffy 'old guard' Politboro.... but he was not alone as this scenario is common in the US where scientists and space programs seeking funding are at odds with a political structure composed mostly of lawyers (i.e.- people who were never good at math or science to begin with.)

A side note of interest:  I happened to watch a US late night chat show last night- the one hosted by expatriate Scotsman, Craig Ferguson.  (due to the holidays- this happened to be a re-run from about 3 weeks ago) One of his guests was American actor, John Cryer- who I always thought was a goofball, but through the conversation he revealed that he has had a life-long interest in space exploration; and dropped a hint that he was working on a film script about the Soviet program.  If Hollywood should ever tackle that story, let us hope they do it justice and research it thoroughly!

Offline British NASA

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #14 on: 01/02/2006 09:38 am »
They really should do a big Hollywood film. It looks like the true storyline is more than enough material.

Offline Sergi Manstov

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #15 on: 01/02/2006 10:34 am »
Yes, but I hope Hollywood wouldn't change history as they always like to do.

Offline Mark Max Q

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #16 on: 01/02/2006 06:11 pm »
I see Russia is having some issues with Ukraine over the gas supplies. Does Russia have any potential issues with Kazakstan? Russia wouldn't want to lose that ability to launch from there?

Offline Dana

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #17 on: 01/04/2006 03:31 am »
I've always thought Yuri Gagarin's story would make a very compelling biopic if done right.
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Offline publiusr

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #18 on: 01/26/2006 10:13 pm »
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Mark Max Q - 2/1/2006  1:11 PM

I see Russia is having some issues with Ukraine over the gas supplies. Does Russia have any potential issues with Kazakstan? Russia wouldn't want to lose that ability to launch from there?

I want a Bering Strait Bridge in the worst way. We evidently don't know how to mine coal over hear anymore.

Offline lmike

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RE: History of Soviet/Russian space program
« Reply #19 on: 01/28/2006 08:15 am »
Quote
Sergi Manstov - 2/1/2006  5:34 AM

Yes, but I hope Hollywood wouldn't change history as they always like to do.

Heck, I hope the Hollywood hacks stay away from this as far as possible.  Judging by their past films involving "Russians", I can just imagine in my horror nightmares Korolyov being portrayed as an imbecile drunk holding a pickle in one hand and a bottle of Vodka in another, puking and unshaved, while keeping his bearou and himself busy with "stealing ze American Sikrits", and eating ze American babies for lunch, while a lone American hero protagonist(s) sets everything straight.  Personaly, I'm ashamed of this (as an American), but, heck, enterntainment industry has its own rules, aye?

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