Author Topic: ABL Space Systems: General Thread  (Read 140753 times)

Offline russianhalo117

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After the stage test RUD, I think we can safely assume that RS1 will not launch before second half of 2022.

https://spacenews.com/abl-space-systems-rocket-stage-destroyed-in-test-accident/

See the ABL thread for more discussion on this incident.
It says an upper stage. More than one upper stage exists and not all are flight articles. Also it is not yet confirmed by the company that the stage that had an RUD is associated with this mission.

Offline trimeta

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After the stage test RUD, I think we can safely assume that RS1 will not launch before second half of 2022.

https://spacenews.com/abl-space-systems-rocket-stage-destroyed-in-test-accident/

See the ABL thread for more discussion on this incident.
It says an upper stage. More than one upper stage exists and not all are flight articles. Also it is not yet confirmed by the company that the stage that had an RUD is associated with this mission.

Nonetheless, they'd want to investigate the root cause of this test failure and make sure it doesn't apply to the stage they intend to fly to orbit.

Offline thirtyone

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I think it's been said before, but I'm still unclear on how isogrid tanks line up with their low launch costs. For that matter, I also don't understand how the RS1 delivers more payload to orbit than Firefly Alpha or Terran 1 while having lower thrust on both the first and second stages than those vehicles.

Isogrid is not expensive if you mill it in 3-axis then form it, which ABL appears to do. Maybe RS1 has a better mass fraction than those other rockets (I don't think either one has any internal stiffeners at all?).

That's how all isogrids are done, including ULA's? Mostly ends up being a question of optimizing material removal toolpaths, etc. There's always other tricks to reduce cost. Maybe it's not as large of a fraction of launch cost for a rocket of this size.

Offline ParabolicSnark

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And ABL has been moving slow for a while now.

ABL was founded in 2017 and are running stage tests 4 years later. In what world is that slow?

* SpaceX: founded 2002. First flight 2006
* Rocket Lab: founded 2006. Pivot towards orbit launch vehicles in 2010(?). First flight 2017
* Virgin Orbit: started engine testing in 2012 under Virgin Galactic. First flight 2019.
* Firefly Aerospace/Space Systems: founded in 2014. First flight 2021.
* Relativity Space: founded in 2015. Haven't started running stage tests yet.

Aside from SpaceX. Most other companies in this sector are taking 7 years to get to first launch. If ABL can launch by 2024 they're going just as fast as everyone else.

Offline edzieba

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* Relativity Space: founded in 2015. Haven't started running stage tests yet.
Minor point, but they have conducted at least one second stage test.
Regardless, 4 years is hardly for a launch startup.

Offline mn

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And ABL has been moving slow for a while now.

ABL was founded in 2017 and are running stage tests 4 years later. In what world is that slow?

In fall 2020, they announced this launch for Q1 2021. Nothing happened. In fall 2021, they announced it for Q1 2022. Nothing happens. Taking >> 1 year for something you said you will to do within < 6 months is slow.

Let's hope this pattern will not continue ...

By this metric there's this other company that everyone thinks is super fast and they are actually really slow.

Offline trimeta

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I think it's been said before, but I'm still unclear on how isogrid tanks line up with their low launch costs. For that matter, I also don't understand how the RS1 delivers more payload to orbit than Firefly Alpha or Terran 1 while having lower thrust on both the first and second stages than those vehicles.

Isogrid is not expensive if you mill it in 3-axis then form it, which ABL appears to do. Maybe RS1 has a better mass fraction than those other rockets (I don't think either one has any internal stiffeners at all?).

That's how all isogrids are done, including ULA's? Mostly ends up being a question of optimizing material removal toolpaths, etc. There's always other tricks to reduce cost. Maybe it's not as large of a fraction of launch cost for a rocket of this size.

From that SmarterEveryDay video with Tory Bruno, my sense is that the biggest cost of isogrids is the difficulty in bending them perfectly into a cylinder afterwards. ULA uses a giant jig operated by a highly-paid human which operates very slowly (to maintain precision). Could it be done faster and more cheaply? Maybe, but I haven't seen ABL talk about doing so.

Offline russianhalo117

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It says an upper stage. More than one upper stage exists and not all are flight articles. Also it is not yet confirmed by the company that the stage that had an RUD is associated with this mission.

Even if there was another, flight-ready upper stage (there is no information about that): The failure needs to be investigated. FAA will require an explanation and a fix before allowing a launch. And then they will have to repeat the test, after repairing the test stand. And ABL has been moving slow for a while now.

Yes, we know that.

Offline ParabolicSnark

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Looks like Scott Manley has made a 10 minute video about ABL, prompted by this anomaly. Nothing new to report for those following this thread, but it's news to lot of fans in the industry that haven't heard of ABL yet.


Offline Daniels30

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“There are a thousand things that can happen when you go to light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good.” -
Tom Mueller, SpaceX Co founder and Propulsion CTO.

From that SpaceNews Article above. Gives a good idea of how ready for launch ABL is.
Quote
After the incident, he said the company expects a three-month delay in that first launch. The upper stage being built for the second RS1 launch will now be used for the first launch. The lower stage is complete and currently in storage in Kodiak, while the interstage between the first and second stages is being shipped to Kodiak. The payload fairing has completed acceptance testing and will soon be shipped to the launch site.

Also, noteworthy, the CEO says explicitly that their using a rapidly interative approach, which jives with this sort of failure only delaying them 3 months.
Quote
“Our strategy in developing RS1 is to rapidly test, iterate and sometimes fail. An engine hard start was a known risk in this campaign,” O’Hanley said. “This strategy has been highly successful in helping us to uncover unknown unknowns and has been the underpinning of our rapid progress over the past three years.”
« Last Edit: 01/28/2022 04:10 pm by JEF_300 »
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline Daniels30

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A really rare video of the second stage; this stage was the one involved in the recent failure. The video comes from Harry O'Hanley's (Founder and CEO) LinkedIn account: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6892562678406103040/
« Last Edit: 02/06/2022 09:15 pm by Daniels30 »
“There are a thousand things that can happen when you go to light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good.” -
Tom Mueller, SpaceX Co founder and Propulsion CTO.

Offline Daniels30

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The payload fairings, payload adapter and interstage have now been shipped to Kodiak.
OmniTeq will be the first customer going to a 350km x 200km polar orbit.
Images are from Dan Piemont (Co-founder, CTO), more images and details here: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6896504302077145088/
“There are a thousand things that can happen when you go to light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good.” -
Tom Mueller, SpaceX Co founder and Propulsion CTO.

Offline russianhalo117

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The payload fairings, payload adapter and interstage have now been shipped to Kodiak.
OmniTeq will be the first customer going to a 350km x 200km polar orbit.
Images are from Dan Piemont (Co-founder, CTO), more images and details here: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6896504302077145088/

Note: https://l2aerospace.com and all other L2 entities websites all redirect to https://l2solutions.com

 L2 including L2 Aerospace has been unified into a single website as L2Sololutions and with other events in December 2021 assumed the name and brand OmniTeq. The patch logo has the two stars representing VariSat-1A and VariSat-1B payloads.
« Last Edit: 02/07/2022 09:45 pm by russianhalo117 »

Offline Daniels30

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RS1 updated 2022 Payload User's Guide
“There are a thousand things that can happen when you go to light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good.” -
Tom Mueller, SpaceX Co founder and Propulsion CTO.

Offline Welsh Dragon

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It amuses me a company which has yet to launch anything calls itself "a leader in the small launch market" (page 3 of user guide).

Offline PM3

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It amuses me a company which has yet to launch anything calls itself "a leader in the small launch market" (page 3 of user guide).

If those 58 launch options of their shareholder Lockheed Martin materialize, ABL may be the small launch manifest leader. And they offer lowest cost in the 1 ton to LEO class, because they build the simplest rocket.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/05/lockheed-martin-buys-up-to-58-launches-from-rocket-builder-abl-space.html
"Never, never be afraid of the truth." -- Jim Bridenstine

Offline Welsh Dragon

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It amuses me a company which has yet to launch anything calls itself "a leader in the small launch market" (page 3 of user guide).

If those 58 launch options of their shareholder Lockheed Martin materialize, ABL may be the small launch manifest leader. And they offer lowest cost in the 1 ton to LEO class, because they build the simplest rocket.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/05/lockheed-martin-buys-up-to-58-launches-from-rocket-builder-abl-space.html
If... May be... They didn't say leader in the small launch option market. They said leader in the small launch market. Which is a ridiculous thing to say when that is Rocket Lab by any sensible standard right now. IF ABL launch something successfully (and I don't see why they wouldn't) and IF they get a decent launch cadence going and IF they get to their projected prices and IF they are reliable, THEN they may be a leader in the small launch market. For them to say that now is extreme hubris and laughable. 

Offline gongora

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Every startup says stuff like that.

Offline ringsider

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Every startup says stuff like that.
ABL are doing quite the PR offensive after losing that S2 recently. Posting all kinds of videos and images never seen before on social media. Suddenly they want to show how ready they are...
« Last Edit: 02/14/2022 07:29 pm by ringsider »

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