ULA orders more RD-180's

[Prober]

With ban lifted, ULA orders Russian-made rocket engines
http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/boosters_bits/2015/12/with-ban-lifted-ula-orders-russian-made-rocket.html?ana=yahoo

"The Centennial-based rocket launch provider said Wednesday it ordered 20 RD-180 rocket engines for use in its Atlas V rockets, calling the purchase a bridge until new American-made rocket engines can be developed for a new line of ULA rockets.

ULA’s last RD-180 order, before the import ban was enacted, was for 29 RD-180s.

All but five of those were committed to launches contract for the military by the U.S. Air Force."

[Star One]

With ban lifted, ULA orders Russian-made rocket engines
http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/boosters_bits/2015/12/with-ban-lifted-ula-orders-russian-made-rocket.html?ana=yahoo

"The Centennial-based rocket launch provider said Wednesday it ordered 20 RD-180 rocket engines for use in its Atlas V rockets, calling the purchase a bridge until new American-made rocket engines can be developed for a new line of ULA rockets."

I am sure a certain senator will advise ULA that this should not be used as an excuse to backslide on developing an alternative ASAP.

[Prober]

more info in this article

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/lockheed-boeing-venture-orders-20-204804158.html

"ULA spokeswoman Jessica Rye said deliveries on the new batch of engines would start once ULA received all of the previous order. ULA received eight RD-180 engines this year, she said."

[Star One]

more info in this article

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/lockheed-boeing-venture-orders-20-204804158.html

"ULA spokeswoman Jessica Rye said deliveries on the new batch of engines would start once ULA received all of the previous order. ULA received eight RD-180 engines this year, she said."

Plenty of well deserved criticism of ULA under that article.

[rayleighscatter]

Could we please not head down the path of getting another RD-180 thread locked?


Staying on topic, where does another 20 engines roughly get ULA to? About 2021-2022?

[sdsds]

where does another 20 engines roughly get ULA to? About 2021-2022?

That could depend on future legislation. ULA will likely face an uncertain regulatory environment, to say the least!

[WindnWar]

where does another 20 engines roughly get ULA to? About 2021-2022?

That could depend on future legislation. ULA will likely face an uncertain regulatory environment, to say the least!

I wonder if they are all paid for or paid as delivered. That was the issue with the last batch, they required an exemption for the ones that had been ordered but not paid for. If these haven't been paid for, well its anyone's guess as to what congress may or may not do.

[Star One]

Could we please not head down the path of getting another RD-180 thread locked?


Staying on topic, where does another 20 engines roughly get ULA to? About 2021-2022?

And precisely what is on topic?

[kevin-rf]

I will take a shot in the dark. Only 20?

Considering all the worries about how long importing the RD-180 will stay "legal", does that mean they are taking a calculated risk of only needing 20 more engines before safely transitioning to the BE-4 and Vulcan?

If the plan was to back track on replacing Atlas with Vulcan, I would have expected a much larger order.

(Of course I am in the camp that ULA should be working hardest on ACES first, Vulcan second...)

[rayleighscatter]

Could we please not head down the path of getting another RD-180 thread locked?


Staying on topic, where does another 20 engines roughly get ULA to? About 2021-2022?

And precisely what is on topic?

If I had to make a guess I'd say things that don't involve Senator Shelby, Senator McCain, any other political discussion or speculation, block buy, ELC or any other DoD policy criticism as this forum has a separate policy discussion area and when they're brought up in the ULA section it's usually not long until a moderator steps in and cleans up or locks the discussion.

[Star One]

Could we please not head down the path of getting another RD-180 thread locked?


Staying on topic, where does another 20 engines roughly get ULA to? About 2021-2022?

And precisely what is on topic?

If I had to make a guess I'd say things that don't involve Senator Shelby, Senator McCain, any other political discussion or speculation, block buy, ELC or any other DoD policy criticism as this forum has a separate policy discussion area and when they're brought up in the ULA section it's usually not long until a moderator steps in and cleans up or locks the discussion.

Thanks for the clarification. Sorry if my posts above seemed off topic I'm just rather exasperated by this whole situation.

[JamesG123]

Because ULA and the RD-180s are inextricably intertwined with politics. You can't talk anything beyond basic technicals without bumping into it.  Sorry the truth hurts.

[McDew]

Good timing for another RD-180 engine order.  The strong dollar ruble exchange rate should have allowed ULA to get a good price on these engines.   Helps explain why ULA wanted to get the older/more expensive engines used up as quickly as possible (FIFO) and use the cheaper engines to reach their price targets on future competitions.   Shows why having the restrictions tied to specific engines did not make sense.

[ArbitraryConstant]

Seems like even given the political situation, absolute unconditional cold turkey was needlessly damaging. Transitioning to a competitive market has to be done carefully to ensure a healthy market afterwards, and I don't think we can make the case the previous restrictions would do that.

ULA should continue the transition away from RD-180 but they need to still exist to do so. The method sucks but I don't think it was a wise policy as implemented in the first place.

What remains to be seen is whether ULA continues the transition away from Russian engines or whether funding is halted now that the engine supply extends past the next few years.

[Dante80]

The best way out of this situation would be - imo - to keep Atlas V running between 2018 and 2020 but place a firm mandate for the EELV program, stating that competition after 202X for DoD payloads would strictly be between certified vehicles/companies sporting only indigenous major components (like engines).

This does two things. Gives ULA the breathing room to work on Vulcan / transition to EELV phase 2 competition, and makes sure that a mandate is in place for LM/Boeing to adopt Vulcan fully.

[baldusi]

Yep. Banning the RD-180 outright is a very shortsighted measure. Just look at the GPS 3 situation. If ULA decides not to compete, let them do that. They have a very busy two or three years. But in 2016 they need to seriously get some business for 2019. If they decide to pass up the competitions, they will be in a very tight spot in three years.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

Contract awards in 2016 are for launches NET 2019. This order is to support those competitions and the ones occurring in the next few years (2017-2018) for launches in 2020-2021. At 7 launches per year this order covers only 3 years. 4-5 DOD and 2-3 civil or commercial (this includes probably 1 flight per year of CST-100 on an Atlas V). The 4-5 DOD represents about 40-50% of all DOD awards. ULA will probably loose out to SpaceX on the rest of the 11 possible GPS 3 launches through 2021 representing about 3 launches per year in the years 2019-2021. SpaceX only needs to win an additional 2-3 launches per year to become the primary launch provider of DOD. The split on who launches which sats will probably be the smaller cheaper sats would go to SpaceX with the larger more expensive going to ULA although some exceptions of the split-up may occur. Especially in competitions in 2018 when FH is full certified and has more than 3 launches for a history. The competition environment for these launches is going to be tough. But I think their analysis of needing 18 to get to 2020 with a few more to get into 2021 is probably correct. Some of this order supports some of the slipped out launches that would have been  NLT 2018 that have now slipped into 2019-2020. This melding of old contracted with competition contracted flights in 2019 and 2020 will make flights in those years to show a gradual decline in total launches/year until 2021 which would be almost all competition awards for flights.

[Andy USA]

Stupid comments will be removed. Repeat offenders will be banned.

Thread trim.

[edkyle99]

I wish that ULA had not been given authority to nab these RD-180s.  I believe it would have been better for the company in the long run to have dealt with the lack of Energomash engines in some more clever way.  This result disappoints.

 - Ed Kyle 

[sdsds]

I share some of Ed's feelings. My primary concern is that in this example, like in so many others, well-meaning legislative action has created circumstances which almost compel actions which aren't really in the best interests of either the United States or of the regulated industrial entities. It looks like Energomash will benefit, and thus perhaps some of "Putin's cronies," but a steadier hand at the Congressional helm would have allowed ULA to chart a better course for itself and for the country.

[RocketGoBoom]

Per CEO Tony Bruno, they are expecting in those future years that the number of annual DOD launches to decline from the current rate of 10-12 annually to closer to 5 launches per year.

(May 2015 quote)
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-lockheed-martin-boeing-ula-idUSKBN0O62M720150521

And they are expecting to only win 2 or 3 launches per year once there is competition for DOD launches.

Bruno said the number of U.S. military and intelligence satellite launches would likely drop in coming years to about five launches a year from 10 to 12, with the smaller number to be split among two or more rivals.

"We have to ... access commercial and civil opportunities. (We) cannot survive on two launches a year," Bruno told a lunch meeting hosted by the Washington Space Business Roundtable.

So ordering 20 additional RD-180's seems aggressive with the expected decline of the DOD market to only 5 per year. Or they have plans to be competitive elsewhere with the Atlas V prior to the Vulcan/BE-4 being available.

[skater]

I wish that ULA had not been given authority to nab these RD-180s.  I believe it would have been better for the company in the long run to have dealt with the lack of Energomash engines in some more clever way.  This result disappoints.

While I respect your desire for some creative pressure, I suspect that Boeing's and Lockheed Martin's response would be to call AJR up and ask if their old offer is still on the table.  I don't see ULA's parents being willing to tolerate the kind of uncertainty that a loss of RD-180s would create, nor are they willing to spend the money to bid Delta 4 as a loss leader (which might be against government bidding rules, anyway).  Also, I don't see a "Manhattan Project" effort for the BE-4 or AR-1 as something they'd commit the money to do, and any other temporary solution puts their launch reliability at risk.

I'd love to see some sort of solution cut the Gordian knot without additional RD-180 purchases, but I'm not sure that there is one.  Is there a particular solution you have in mind?

[Dante80]

There was only one possible solution to "cut the knot" for the "no more RD-180" scenario. Guarantee some LV contracts for the Delta IV until Vulcan is up (while providing a firm timeline to stop doing so to both promote Vulcan moving forward asap and SpaceX not getting too angry about it). Essentially, moving the phase 1b/2 part of the EELV competition process further down the line.

The best solution imo would be to do what I posted above. Keep Atlas V running between 2018 and 2020 but place a firm mandate for the EELV program, stating that competition after 202X for DoD payloads would strictly be between certified vehicles/companies sporting only indigenous major components (like engines).

[Space Ghost 1962]

The RD-180 is a political and logistical trap for ULA that it must escape to survive long term. Unfortunately its current success comes from a form of "discounted" production of it as well. Neither RD-180 nor RL-10 nor Atlas in general may be effective enough for ULA to compete mid to long term, even given its formidable skills/experience/legacy/influence.

Its hard to control such critical propulsion system components when they are not in house, which might be even more exacerbated by having a rival that has them (and more) in house, and even more so with leverage that makes this lack consequential.

This results in an enormous distraction which is rooted in complex history and made even more opaque with a running financial battle with members of Congress over a decade. It is the net cost of this distraction that puts ULA's future at risk, not necessarily the lack of certain components.

Because the distraction can rob one of having a future at all.

Oh wait, this is too complex, need KISS. Just me get RD-180, there, all good.

add:

Largely irrelevant to the matter is the quality/performance. Look, Russians are russians, and russian kerolox obsession on ORSC is what it is. The issue is of control and what that means. The same that is faced with Ariane and indigenous production of engines - nothing more.

The RD-180's have been since inception with Atlas a multi decade stop-gap.

Europe with Soyuz ST and America with RD-180 have had ups and downs when evading the indigenous source issue. To differing degrees.

Focus on the hard task of evolving to multiple, concurrent launch service providers in an increasingly commercial launch dominated industry, where you have to withdraw the government fiats uniformly so that they can stand on their own. At the same time, technology shifts force restructuring of the providers and application of propulsion components, where the economics might require annual adaption in place of quarter century phase-out.

[vapour_nudge]

If only the RD-180 was - say, JD-180 (Japan) or maybe even AD-180 (Australia ) then would that change things? Fantastic engine, I wish the USA had the ability to build it.
Space Ghost, what's your opinion on the engine itself and a hypothetical world where it isn't Russian - if you can humour me for a few minutes?

[clongton]

It takes several years at best to construct a satellite after the award has been made. As of mid-2015 DoD had not awarded contracts for any new satellites, although several RFQ's are in the pipeline. That translates into a reduced demand for launch services in the coming years and explains the fewer available DoD launches per year to bid on that Tony Bruno was referring to. 20 RD-180 engines may actually be a little more than needed for anticipated bid wins. IMO the extras are likely insurance against slipped dates for the Vulcan.

[edkyle99]

Commercial Crew launches will help ULA's manifest.  I'm sure the company would also love to keep launching those cargo missions.  I wonder what ULA would need to offer to Orbital ATK to convince it to make the partnership permanent?

 - Ed Kyle

[kevin-rf]

Well, they already gave Orbital ATK the Vulcan solid business...

[skater]

Space Ghost, what's your opinion on the engine itself and a hypothetical world where it isn't Russian - if you can humour me for a few minutes?

I'm not SG, but I'll weigh in.  The RD-180 is regarded by most people as a fantastic engine.  Incredibly high ISP for an RP-1/LOX engine, sized in the sweet spot for a launcher first stage engine, and has been very reliable on the Atlas V.  If it can be procured in a price that would allow a ULA launcher to be cost-competitive with the Falcon 9, without the political problems, there would be no reason to switch.  Alas, that last sentence is the sticking point - my limited understanding is that, even at the prices that the Russians can produce it, it is a bit expensive to allow head-to-head price competition with SX, and it is produced in a country with international politics that are problematic to the country of its prime customer.  Moving it to USA or somewhere else will make it even less price-competitive (which is why production was never moved to the USA, even though there was a provision in the purchase agreement).

[Prober]

I wish that ULA had not been given authority to nab these RD-180s.  I believe it would have been better for the company in the long run to have dealt with the lack of Energomash engines in some more clever way.  This result disappoints.

 - Ed Kyle

Transition; ULA just returned to operating state when the stockpile was signed off by all parties.  Remember contracts are a two way street.

[Rocket Science]

It's like getting Ferrari engines at Hyundai prices... What's no to like...

[sdsds]

If only the RD-180 was - say, JD-180 (Japan) or maybe even AD-180 (Australia ) then would that change things? Fantastic engine, I wish the USA had the ability to build it.

It is extremely difficult to recreate in our minds today the thinking of the researchers and decision-makers of the early 1990s. In part that's because we've almost totally forgotten about some things that seemed so incredibly important back then.

I attach here a pdf of the slides used in a briefing to Congressional staffers in 1994. It describes what DoD called their "Space Launch Modernization Plan." Of particular interest is the section starting on page 40 describing "option 2", which was selected and became EELV. I draw particular attention though to a few earlier places where Russian engine technology is mentioned.
In the "Facts of Life" section, on p. 25:

Foreign policy situation has created exploitable opportunities for international (especially Russian) cooperation

In the "Options" section:
The "Space Launch Technology Revitalization" slide (p. 35)
The "DoD/NASA technology coordination" slide (p. 36)

It's difficult to understand these outside the context. Flipping through the entire stack of slides might be worthwhile....

[Kansan52]

Memory says the ban was only for DoD launches. So Commercial and Commercial crew are not affected by this change.

Still relying on memory, ULA has stated that the Atlas V launch costs are being reduce because of efficiency improvements. Still, even after those improvements, the ULA will need the Vulcan to compete in the marketplace.

So, from ULA's own statements, using the RD-180s are stop gap.

[Prober]

If only the RD-180 was - say, JD-180 (Japan) or maybe even AD-180 (Australia ) then would that change things? Fantastic engine, I wish the USA had the ability to build it.

It is extremely difficult to recreate in our minds today the thinking of the researchers and decision-makers of the early 1990s. In part that's because we've almost totally forgotten about some things that seemed so incredibly important back then.

I attach here a pdf of the slides used in a briefing to Congressional staffers in 1994. It describes what DoD called their "Space Launch Modernization Plan." Of particular interest is the section starting on page 40 describing "option 2", which was selected and became EELV. I draw particular attention though to a few earlier places where Russian engine technology is mentioned.
In the "Facts of Life" section, on p. 25:

Foreign policy situation has created exploitable opportunities for international (especially Russian) cooperation

In the "Options" section:
The "Space Launch Technology Revitalization" slide (p. 35)
The "DoD/NASA technology coordination" slide (p. 36)

It's difficult to understand these outside the context. Flipping through the entire stack of slides might be worthwhile....

good find, enjoy these look backs.
Page 25 is very interesting, Looking forward (history repeats?)

Too many providers-too much production capacity
Traditional providers unlikely to fund major modernization  (can u say AJR?)

Government demand is dominant, but launch rate is dropping (early 2020's)

Look at the payback (ROI) Page 59 forward

Edit add payback

[edkyle99]

RD Amross "pretty confident" it will garner more RD-180 orders from ULA.

https://sputniknews.com/science/201704051052308344-rd180-russia-us/

 - Ed Kyle

[spacenut]

I don't see how they can keep getting the RD-180's in today's political climate.  Dem's hate the Russians, Some Rep's hate them also.  Shades of the old Cold War.  I still don't understand why thy don't replumb either Atlas or a 5m core with at least 5 H-1/RS-27's.  Yes, they are not as efficient, but they are American made.  Delta II used them for years.  Tooling was still available.  One reason the Merlin is so cheap, is that it is made with 3d printed parts.  Maybe Orbital should invest in some 3d printers to cut manufacturing costs. 

[edkyle99]

  I still don't understand why thy don't replumb either Atlas or a 5m core with at least 5 H-1/RS-27's. 

RS-27A has been out of production for more than a decade now.  Its test stand is dismantled and the site sold off.

 - Ed Kyle

[Star One]

RD Amross "pretty confident" it will garner more RD-180 orders from ULA.

https://sputniknews.com/science/201704051052308344-rd180-russia-us/

 - Ed Kyle

Are ULA determined to stock up ill will for themselves down the line from the politicians.

[baldusi]

Well, at least for ISS, they are free to order as many as they wish. And both CST-100 and DreamChaser will use it. Also, I understand that NASA's payload and other commercial are free to use it. I'm pretty sure that those Category A payloads will fly Atlas V at least until 2025.

[MATTBLAK]

"Hi; my name is ULA - thanks for having me here tonight to hear my story. The truth is; I'm an RD-180 addict..."

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Baker: our last delivery of RD-180 engines to ULA is in 2019. We expect them to decide soon to purchase more, into 2020-21. #33SS

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/850098810533576704

Baker: additional engines would support Atlas 5 launches “well into 2024.” #33SS

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/850099178504155137

[AncientU]

Every RD-180 represents two BE-4s not sold and one Vulcan not flown.

What manifest does this leave for Vulcan?
Not a single payload has been announced for that vehicle.
NG has six on the manifest yet it won't fly until a couple years after Vulcan.

[Star One]

Every RD-180 represents two BE-4s not sold and one Vulcan not flown.

What manifest does this leave for Vulcan?
Not a single payload has been announced for that vehicle.
NG has six on the manifest yet it won't fly until a couple years after Vulcan.

ULA do sound like addicts who can't go cold turkey over the RD-180.

[Semmel]

What a wasteful analogy that is. Avery company is an addict to the resources it needs to do business. More to the point, to assume that there is no delay in BE-4 production or Vulcan development is not very smart. ULA cant cut of its own legs while climbing to a new launch vehicle. Why would they? Its a business decision that makes sense for them.

[Star One]

What a wasteful analogy that is. Avery company is an addict to the resources it needs to do business. More to the point, to assume that there is no delay in BE-4 production or Vulcan development is not very smart. ULA cant cut of its own legs while climbing to a new launch vehicle. Why would they? Its a business decision that makes sense for them.

That hopefully brings on suitable political disapproval.

[jded]

What a wasteful analogy that is. Avery company is an addict to the resources it needs to do business.

Well, nobody calls breathing an addiction. But we call smoking one, because it is something that is not necessary from the POV of how the system in question (human body or a rocket company) works in principle, but only becomes necessary (and a long-term problem) because of a series of decisions that were rewarding on a shorter time scale.

For an analogy, it's not that bad.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Isn't the interesting question: why do ULA think that they need more RD-180s?

Is it:

- A tacit admission that Vulcan won't be ready on the previously announced timescales?
- Customers not willing to buy Vulcan launches yet, so Atlas V launches stretching further into the future?
- Better than expected orders for Atlas V (commercial crew?) in the next few years before Vulcan?

Of course could well be a combination of the above.

[pippin]

Orr maybe they are afraid the political climate could deteriorate further to a paint where they would no longer be able to order more engines in case they need them?
Also, it's probably not like they can order them at one week's notice.

So better safe than sorry, neither BE-4 nor AR-1 has bee fired to date.

[Chasm]

What is the lead time again? 5 years?
Add some overlap and they basically have to order now.

ULA can use the RD-180 for any commercial launch they can sell. - Not that too many expect them to sell commercially.
If the political rules get restricted once more engines already in hand should be exempt. More reason to buy now.

Then there are production questions. Everyone likes to avoid long stoppages of the production pipeline. Much easier to plan for and live with a slow production run than to have long and uncertain pauses.
I guess that there are also some contractual issues. What changes if there are not any orders for x years? We don't know.

[jongoff]

I may have missed this, but is there any actual confirmation from ULA that they are actually planning to do this? Or are we all jumping to conclusions over forward-looking statements from an engine vendor?

~Jon

[AncientU]

I may have missed this, but is there any actual confirmation from ULA that they are actually planning to do this? Or are we all jumping to conclusions over forward-looking statements from an engine vendor?

~Jon

There was a recent announcement that Atlas V would run concurrently with Vulcan for five years... brings us to mid-2020s.  This engine supply involves approximately the same time frame.  Not a direct statement from ULA that they are buying more RD-180s, but seems consistent with their plans for Atlas.

[Brovane]

I may have missed this, but is there any actual confirmation from ULA that they are actually planning to do this? Or are we all jumping to conclusions over forward-looking statements from an engine vendor?

~Jon

There was a recent announcement that Atlas V would run concurrently with Vulcan for five years... brings us to mid-2020s.  This engine supply involves approximately the same time frame.  Not a direct statement from ULA that they are buying more RD-180s, but seems consistent with their plans for Atlas.

I agree 100%

It makes sense to have a healthy buffer of the engine to cover any issues that might arise in the Vulcan development. 

For the first time, Amross is facing competition.  They know that at the right price point ULA will buy more RD-180 engines, but the price point has to be competitive.  If the price isn't low enough, ULA might decide it isn't worth is and just focus on the Vulcan and BE-4. 

Rapid Launch, a key selling point that ULA has been touting is the ability in months to go from procurement to launch, a process that normally takes years.  In order to do Rapid Launch, they need to have extra engines in storage. 

Future hedge against Geo-Political instability.  The more RD-180 engines ULA can procure and have on US soil, the bigger the buffer it has in-case that supply is cut-off suddenly. 

ULA has a lot of sunk costs into the Atlas-V and optimization.  You might as well get everything you can out of the old design while you bring the new one online and resolve any issues.   

Atlas-V has a 100% Mission success rate. 

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Here's Jeff Foust's write-up of the situation:

http://spacenews.com/rd-180-provider-seeks-additional-ula-engine-order/

It's clearly an expectation on RD Amross' part rather than anything ULA have announced or committed to.

[jongoff]

I may have missed this, but is there any actual confirmation from ULA that they are actually planning to do this? Or are we all jumping to conclusions over forward-looking statements from an engine vendor?

~Jon

There was a recent announcement that Atlas V would run concurrently with Vulcan for five years... brings us to mid-2020s.  This engine supply involves approximately the same time frame.  Not a direct statement from ULA that they are buying more RD-180s, but seems consistent with their plans for Atlas.

Note also that the statement about Atlas V flying that long was from Lockheed Martin, not from ULA... Once again, while it's totally possible that this RD-180 continuation could happen, it's also not the signed deal many on here are treating it like.

~Jon

[gongora]

I don't usually look at this section of the charter flights.  RD-180 delivery?

[smoliarm]

I don't usually look at this section of the charter flights.  RD-180 delivery?

Recently Roscosmos started to publish press releases on each RD-180 delivery, e.g.:
10/31/2018 - 4 engines
https://www.roscosmos.ru/25663/

Most recent press release:
12/10/2018 - 3 engines
https://www.roscosmos.ru/25837/

Три двигателя РД-180 переданы заказчикам
6 декабря состоялась сдача трех двигателей РД-180 американским заказчикам. Представители компаний Pratt&Whitney, United Launch Alliance, РД АМРОСС подписали формуляры на двигатели.
Данная приемка является третьей в 2018 году.  В апреле заказчикам уже были переданы четыре двигателя РД-180, в октябре – еще четыре.

----------- google translate:
Three engines RD-180 transferred to customers
On December 6, the delivery of three RD-180 engines to American customers took place. Representatives of the companies Pratt & Whitney, United Launch Alliance, RD AMROSS signed the engine forms.

This acceptance is the third in 2018. In April, four RD-180 engines were already handed over to customers, four more in October.

So, your  quote definitely looks like flight for this batch of RD-180.

[gongora]

Stupid DoD website won't sort my search results and makes me look through all of these irrelevant...hey, what's this one?

[Lar]

Stupid DoD website won't sort my search results and makes me look through all of these irrelevant...hey, what's this one?

From the study, page 4

In August 2014, the Air Force contracted with ULA to determine whether they could integrate and launch Atlas V payloads on the Delta IV.
 * The studies will be completed by August 2015.

Did this happen? I think so but can't recall.

[jacqmans]

Tests RD-180 were successful

On January 28, the RD-180 rocket engine was successfully tested in the Scientific Testing Complex (NIK-751) of NPO Energomash JSC.

According to the head of NIK-751 Andrei Ushkov, the tests were carried out in the normal mode.  “The test program has been carried out in full, ” said A. Ushkov, “there are no comments on the operation of the engine.”

The liquid-propellant rocket engine RD-180 was developed and produced by NPO Energomash.  Designed for use in the US Atlas family of launch vehicles.

https://www.roscosmos.ru/25962/

[brickmack]

Whats newsworthy about this? Isn't every RD-180 static fired before delivery as it is? And why a picture of the Atlas III demo unit being tested?

[Semmel]

Whats newsworthy about this? Isn't every RD-180 static fired before delivery as it is? And why a picture of the Atlas III demo unit being tested?

Its a rocket engine test. What more is needed for being cool? Also, I am not sure if the RD180s are tested before delivery. are they?

Also, any fart of a Merlin is reported, so why not report RD180s as well? I certainly like to see RD180 engine tests.

[Steven Pietrobon]

Also, I am not sure if the RD180s are tested before delivery. are they?

My understanding is that every RD-180 is tested before delivery.

[gongora]

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2017-0044-0740

Looks like a delivery is scheduled between June 24 and July 24 (Volga-Dnepr flight from Moscow to Huntsville)

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/roscosmos/status/1141289752844541952

Очередная партия жидкостных ракетных двигателей РД-180, изготовленных НПО Энергомаш, готовится к отправке — https://www.roscosmos.ru/26455/

Google translate of https://www.roscosmos.ru/26455/:

The next batch of RD-180 is being prepared for shipment.

The acceptance commission on the customer’s acceptance of the next batch of RD-180 engines manufactured by NPO Energomash has successfully completed its work. In June 2019, representatives of the companies Pratt & Whitney, United Launch Alliance, and RD AMROSS signed the forms for three product engines.

Within two weeks, representatives of the above companies conducted an external inspection of the engines, spare parts, inspection of the accompanying documentation. This acceptance is the first in 2019, now they are being prepared for shipment.

Liquid rocket engine RD-180 is designed and manufactured by NPO Energomash. It is intended for use in the US Atlas family of launch vehicles.

[smoliarm]

https://www.roscosmos.ru/27701/

10/31/2019 13:44
Three RD-180 engines shipped to the USA
...
In mid-October, representatives of the companies Pratt & Whitney, United Launch Alliance, and AMROSS EP signed forms for three commodity engines. After acceptance, the RD-180 engines were prepared for shipment and sent to the customer on October 29 at 06:15 Moscow time.

Does somebody know - was this the last shipment?
Or (if it's not) - how many RD-180 left on contract to manufacture ?
==================

Roscomos statements on previous shipments of RD-180:
Oct 31, 2018   "НПО «Энергомаш». Передача четырех двигателей РД-180 альянсу ULA"
https://www.roscosmos.ru/25663/
Dec 10, 2018   "Три двигателя РД-180 переданы заказчикам"
https://www.roscosmos.ru/25837/
Jun 19, 2019   "Очередная партия РД-180 готовится к отправке"
https://www.roscosmos.ru/26455/

[FutureSpaceTourist]

I take this to mean might not need any more RD-180 deliveries:

twitter.com/psychonaut421/status/1250608118440046597

Are the Atlas engines bought in bulk, or are they built to order per each rocket being built? How far in advance do you need to order?

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1251433914322780160

RD180s are fabricated in batches of 4. We currently have several years of inventory in hand

twitter.com/kyle_m_photo/status/1250770243955437568

Is that close to enough for the rest of the Atlas V program?  I assume once Vulcan is well established you will be mostly launching those.

https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1250774053373255682

Yes

[anik]

116 RD-180s were delivered to USA, 89 were used, the last 6 will be delivered this year: it is not difficult to count how much RD-180s ULA has till Atlas 5 retire.

[smoliarm]

116 RD-180s were delivered to USA, 89 were used, the last 6 will be delivered this year: it is not difficult to count how much RD-180s ULA has till Atlas 5 retire.

I heard slightly different count:

1. The original contract was for 101 engine - done.
2. The first extension (of early 2016 IIRC) for 20 engines - done.
3. The second extension (of 2019) for 6 more engines - to be delivered in 2020.

However, the first contract covered some non-flight units which were supposed for ground testing only.
They told me that there were three non-flight engines in total.
If this info correct, then currently 118 RD-180 were delivered.

[anik]

I heard slightly different count:

1. The original contract was for 101 engine - done.
2. The first extension (of early 2016 IIRC) for 20 engines - done.
3. The second extension (of 2019) for 6 more engines - to be delivered in 2020.

However, the first contract covered some non-flight units which were supposed for ground testing only.
They told me that there were three non-flight engines in total.
If this info correct, then currently 118 RD-180 were delivered

Why to assume if all RD-180 serial numbers are known?

Delivered to USA: 116

http://engine.space/press/pressnews/3125/

"Компании RD AMROSS было поставлено 6 двигателей РД180. Всего по программе РД180 отправлено 116 двигателей. В этом году состоялись 2 пуска ракеты-носителя семейства Atlas производства United Launch Alliance с двигателями НПО Энергомаш на первой ступени, обеспечив тем самым 87 успешных пусков подряд"

So delivered: 2T-17T (6T was refurbished as 6T1), 19T-21T, 23T-119T

Not delivered: 3 - 1T (T?), 18T and 22T

Used: 89 - 2T-17T, 19T-21T, 23T-86T, 89T, 97T, 99T-100T, 102T, 104T

Available in USA: 27 - 87T-88T, 90T-96T, 98T, 101T, 103T, 105T-119T

In construction: 6 - 120T-125T

[baldusi]

Had not they developed some human-rated Rd-180 for the Starliner launches? How are those counted?

[russianhalo117]

Had not they developed some human-rated Rd-180 for the Starliner launches? How are those counted?

RD-180 was already human rated capable when developed as it inherited the features from Energia/Zenit RD170 both of which were to at one point fly crews to Salyut 7 and Mir. Atlas had to be updated to utilise those features and RD-180 had to undergo American Man rating certification.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/rogozin/status/1251001033830141963

Google translate:

Strange explanation m.lenta.ru/news/2020/04/1…
 It turns out that the American company buys our RD-180 engines not because they are the most efficient and reliable in their class (about 90 accident-free launches on the Atlas rocket), but in order "so that they will not go to the Iranians and North Koreans"

twitter.com/torybruno/status/1251604667408277507

The RD180 is a technological marvel, ideally suited for Atlas' mission.

https://twitter.com/rogozin/status/1251638665119444993

Thank you Mr. Bruno!  This engine is truly efficient and reliable.  We are pleased with our cooperation and are ready to continue it.  I confirm our invitation to you to visit Moscow for negotiations.  With respect to you and your company

[TorenAltair]

Well that explanation sound like some kind of threat.. "Hey United States.. Better buy the RD180 engines in the future as well, even if you just put them in a storehouse, otherwise we give them to Iran and North Korea. You don't want that, do you?"

[baldusi]

Well that explanation sound like some kind of threat.. "Hey United States.. Better buy the RD180 engines in the future as well, even if you just put them in a storehouse, otherwise we give them to Iran and North Korea. You don't want that, do you?"

Does not works that way. Russia does not like to give away (even when selling, actually)  their top secret technology. Even the RD-180 license was a desperate measure. Look how little they got out of the RD-120 that got sold to China (and a bit to India). Look at how they refuse to give their proprietary methods on jet engine manufacturing to China. You might get some old tech, like an RD-0110, and that will be expensive.

[Hog]

Well that explanation sound like some kind of threat.. "Hey United States.. Better buy the RD180 engines in the future as well, even if you just put them in a storehouse, otherwise we give them to Iran and North Korea. You don't want that, do you?"

Certainly sounds "threatening", esp. to 99.9% of the NATO population that don't even know what a RD-180 engine is.

[jacqmans]

10/30/2020

Tests of the new RD-180 engine were successful
In the scientific and testing complex of the Scientific and Production Association "Energomash" named after academician V.P. Glushko (part of the Roscosmos State Corporation) conducted a successful firing test of the RD-180 rocket engine.

The test program was carried out in full, the tests were carried out in a regular mode. The RD-180 liquid-propellant rocket engine is designed and manufactured by NPO Energomash. It is intended for use as part of the American Atlas 5 launch vehicles.

https://www.roscosmos.ru/29500/

[Kryten]

Well that explanation sound like some kind of threat.. "Hey United States.. Better buy the RD180 engines in the future as well, even if you just put them in a storehouse, otherwise we give them to Iran and North Korea. You don't want that, do you?"

It's just pointing out  the argument of 'we bought RD-180 to stop missile technology going to NK' is nonsense. If the US wanted to prevent migration of missile workers, they should've bought things that would actually come from missile workers and not engines only suitable for space launch. It did nothing to prevent workers at e.g. Makayev from going broke and looking at other options.

[brickmack]

It's just pointing out  the argument of 'we bought RD-180 to stop missile technology going to NK' is nonsense. If the US wanted to prevent migration of missile workers, they should've bought things that would actually come from missile workers and not engines only suitable for space launch. It did nothing to prevent workers at e.g. Makayev from going broke and looking at other options.

RD-180 was just one part of a broader effort, which motivated much of American and European space policy at the time. Shuttle-Mir, the ISS ROS, NK-33/43 and RD-843 and potentially other engine sales, SeaLaunch, opening the commercial market to them, etc all helped various post-Soviet companies. Makayev was helped by the latter, mainly through reuse of surplus ICBMs for space launch

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/katlinegrey/status/1380041128037191681

A batch of six #RD180 engines will be delivered to USA this year, said the head of Energomash Igor Arbuzov. These are the last engines to be delivered under the current contract; they are ready, but the delivery has been postponed due to the pandemic. https://ria.ru/amp/20210408/dvigateli-1727294942.html

[hektor]

Any impact from the Amazon order ? Or are the available engines enough ?

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1430143594623475712

All RD180s have been received and are in Decatur. They will fly out with Atlas over the next several years

[Nate_Trost]

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/26/22641048/ula-boeing-lockheed-end-sales-atlas-v-rocket-russia-rd180

29 Atlas V left, and they are all sold.

[anik]

Delivered: 122 - 2T-17T (6T was refurbished as 6T1), 19T-21T, 23T-125T

Not delivered: 3 - 1T, 18T, 22T

Used: 93 - 2T-17T, 19T-21T, 23T-86T, 89T, 97T, 99T-102T, 104T, 105T, 107T, 109T

Available: 29 - 87T, 88T, 90T-96T, 98T, 103T, 106T, 108T, 110T-125T

98T - OFT-2 (was planned before delay)
119T - Landsat-9

[TorenAltair]

"They are all sold"

Interesting because of the implication to Starliner launches. Either Boeing bought several Atlas "just in case" (more NASA flights, commercial flights) which then might become available again or there might arise a bottleneck (no more boosters) to the Starliner program. Man-rating the Vulcan rocket is clearly possible but costs additional money (and takes some time).

[lrk]

I wonder if Amazon could be persuaded to move some of their later Atlas missions to Vulcan, in exchange for a slight discount or more satellites on each launch.  That could free up a few Atlases if there was a more pressing mission with less launcher flexibility, such as Starliner. 

[Kiwi53]

I wonder if Amazon could be persuaded to move some of their later Atlas missions to Vulcan, in exchange for a slight discount or more satellites on each launch.  That could free up a few Atlases if there was a more pressing mission with less launcher flexibility, such as Starliner.

The two critical dates for Kuiper is July 30th, 2026 and July 30th, 2029, IIRC.By those dates they need 50% (~1618 satellites) and 100% (3236 satellites, I think) of their fleet up to secure their ITU rights.
We need to make two assumptions:
A) An EELV-class LV can carry 50 satellites.
B) Their first operational launch will be around Q1 2022. They might launch some prototypes earlier.

This means that they will need about 35 launches between Q1 2022 and Q2 2026. Which is about 10 launches per year.

This doesn't leave Amazon much flexibility: they will probably need to buy more launches before July 2029, and it seems unlikely IMO that Vulcan will have reached a launch cadence so fast that Amazon would be able to give up any Atlas launches for extra Vulcan launches.

[Josh_from_Canada]

Does anyone have a list of RD-180 serial numbers showing what engine was used on what flight.

[Vahe231991]

How many RD-180s are left in the ULA inventory for the Atlas V, especially in light of US sanctions against NPO Energomash?

[Toast]

How many RD-180s are left in the ULA inventory for the Atlas V, especially in light of US sanctions against NPO Energomash?

Answered a few posts back--the remaining Atlas V launches are all sold and the engines for those launches have already been delivered. ULA doesn't need and won't be buying any more RD-180's.

[Vahe231991]

How many RD-180s are left in the ULA inventory for the Atlas V, especially in light of US sanctions against NPO Energomash?

Answered a few posts back--the remaining Atlas V launches are all sold and the engines for those launches have already been delivered. ULA doesn't need and won't be buying any more RD-180's.

I know that there are 19 Atlas V launches remaining, but I'm curious as to the Atlas V launches to which the RD-180s with serial numbers 1T, 18T, 22T, 87T, 88T, 90T-96T, 98T, 103T, 106T, 108T, and 110T-125T were or have been assigned.

[Newton_V]

How many RD-180s are left in the ULA inventory for the Atlas V, especially in light of US sanctions against NPO Energomash?

Answered a few posts back--the remaining Atlas V launches are all sold and the engines for those launches have already been delivered. ULA doesn't need and won't be buying any more RD-180's.

I know that there are 19 Atlas V launches remaining, but I'm curious as to the Atlas V launches to which the RD-180s with serial numbers 1T, 18T, 22T, 87T, 88T, 90T-96T, 98T, 103T, 106T, 108T, and 110T-125T were or have been assigned.

Why those ones specifically?

[Vahe231991]

How many RD-180s are left in the ULA inventory for the Atlas V, especially in light of US sanctions against NPO Energomash?

Answered a few posts back--the remaining Atlas V launches are all sold and the engines for those launches have already been delivered. ULA doesn't need and won't be buying any more RD-180's.

I know that there are 19 Atlas V launches remaining, but I'm curious as to the Atlas V launches to which the RD-180s with serial numbers 1T, 18T, 22T, 87T, 88T, 90T-96T, 98T, 103T, 106T, 108T, and 110T-125T were or have been assigned.

Why those ones specifically?

When reply#82 was written back in 2021, 93 Atlas V launches had been conducted. That post gives a list of used and yet-to-be used RD-180s for Atlas V launches.

[Alter Sachse]

I heard slightly different count:

1. The original contract was for 101 engine - done.
2. The first extension (of early 2016 IIRC) for 20 engines - done.
3. The second extension (of 2019) for 6 more engines - to be delivered in 2020.

However, the first contract covered some non-flight units which were supposed for ground testing only.
They told me that there were three non-flight engines in total.
If this info correct, then currently 118 RD-180 were delivered

Why to assume if all RD-180 serial numbers are known?

Delivered to USA: 116

http://engine.space/press/pressnews/3125/

"Компании RD AMROSS было поставлено 6 двигателей РД180. Всего по программе РД180 отправлено 116 двигателей. В этом году состоялись 2 пуска ракеты-носителя семейства Atlas производства United Launch Alliance с двигателями НПО Энергомаш на первой ступени, обеспечив тем самым 87 успешных пусков подряд"

So delivered: 2T-17T (6T was refurbished as 6T1), 19T-21T, 23T-119T

Not delivered: 3 - 1T (T?), 18T and 22T

Used: 89 - 2T-17T, 19T-21T, 23T-86T, 89T, 97T, 99T-100T, 102T, 104T

Available in USA: 27 - 87T-88T, 90T-96T, 98T, 101T, 103T, 105T-119T

In construction: 6 - 120T-125T

Does anyone have the serial numbers of the RD-180 used since 2020 ?

[Galactic Penguin SST]

I heard slightly different count:

1. The original contract was for 101 engine - done.
2. The first extension (of early 2016 IIRC) for 20 engines - done.
3. The second extension (of 2019) for 6 more engines - to be delivered in 2020.

However, the first contract covered some non-flight units which were supposed for ground testing only.
They told me that there were three non-flight engines in total.
If this info correct, then currently 118 RD-180 were delivered

Why to assume if all RD-180 serial numbers are known?

Delivered to USA: 116

http://engine.space/press/pressnews/3125/

"Компании RD AMROSS было поставлено 6 двигателей РД180. Всего по программе РД180 отправлено 116 двигателей. В этом году состоялись 2 пуска ракеты-носителя семейства Atlas производства United Launch Alliance с двигателями НПО Энергомаш на первой ступени, обеспечив тем самым 87 успешных пусков подряд"

So delivered: 2T-17T (6T was refurbished as 6T1), 19T-21T, 23T-119T

Not delivered: 3 - 1T (T?), 18T and 22T

Used: 89 - 2T-17T, 19T-21T, 23T-86T, 89T, 97T, 99T-100T, 102T, 104T

Available in USA: 27 - 87T-88T, 90T-96T, 98T, 101T, 103T, 105T-119T

In construction: 6 - 120T-125T

Does anyone have the serial numbers of the RD-180 used since 2020 ?

Or the actual assignments since the first Atlas III in 2000!

[Josh_from_Canada]

A very incomplete list but it's better than nothing

1T - Not Delivered
2T - AC-201 - 24.05.2000
3T - AC-203 - 18.12.2003
4T - AC-204 - 21.02.2002
5T - AC-205 - 12.04.2003
6T -> 6T1 - AC-206 - 03.02.2005
7T - AC-202 - 13.03.2004
8T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
9T - AV-001 - 21.08.2002
10T - AV-002 - 13.05.2003
11T - AV-003 - 17.07.2003
12T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
13T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
14T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
15T - AV-007 - 12.08.2005
16T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
17T - AV-013 - 09.03.2007
18T - Not Delivered
19T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
20T - AV-010 - 19.01.2006
21T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
22T - Not Delivered
23T - AV-014 - 14.04.2008
24T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
25T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
26T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
27T - AV-016 - 04.04.2009
28T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
29T - AV-027 - 15.04.2011
30T - AV-020 - 18.06.2009
31T - AV-021 - 11.02.2010
32T - AV-022 - 07.05.2011
33T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
34T - AV-026 - 05.03.2011
35T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
36T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
37T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
38T - AV-024 - 23.11.2009
39T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
40T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
41T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
42T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
43T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
44T - AV-028 - 26.11.2011
45T - AV-029 - 05.08.2011
46T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
47T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
48T - AV-038 - 18.11.2013
49T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
50T - AV-043 - 24.01.2014
51T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
52T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
53T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
54T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
55T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
56T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
57T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
58T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
59T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
60T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
61T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
62T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
63T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
64T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
65T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
66T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
67T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
68T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
69T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
70T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
71T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
72T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
73T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
74T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
75T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
76T - AV-078 - 05.05.2018
77T - AV-069 - 19.11.2016
78T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
79T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
80T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
81T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
82T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
83T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
84T - AV-070 - 18.04.2017
85T - AV-077 - 01.03.2018
86T - AV-074 - 18.08.2017
87T
88T - AV-099 - 04.10.2022
89T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
90T - AV-104 - 06.10.2023
91T
92T
93T
94T
95T
96T
97T - AV-080 - 20.12.2019
98T - AV-096 - 16.10.2021
99T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
100T - AV-xxx - xx.xx.xxxx
101T - AV-081 - 17.05.2020
102T - AV-086 - 26.03.2020
103T - AV-094 - 01.07.2022
104T - AV-087 - 10.02.2020
105T - AV-088 - 25.07.2020
106T - AV-085 - 05.06.2024
107T - AV-091 - 18.05.2021
108T - AV-093 - 07.12.2021
109T - AV-090 - 13.11.2020
110T - AV-098 - 10.11.2022
111T - AV-095 - 01.03.2022
112T
113T
114T
115T - AV-097 - 04.08.2022
116T
117T
118T - AV-084 - 21.01.2022
119T - AV-092 - 27.09.2021
120T - AV-082 - 19.05.2022
121T
122T - AV-102 - 10.09.2023
123T - AV-101
124T
125T

[Alter Sachse]

Thank you !

my list:

Bold numbers from Josh