Good questions.1. Power: I just started a thread under general on using the POWOW concept for the moon. The way I see it is that 10 tons at L1 can deliver 200KWe 24/7 (or is that 600/12?) to the lunar base. So for the launch effort of a single lunar mission, you could probably deliver 1MWe. Solar collectors on "hangers" and buildings could deliver a few hundred KW at the right time of day.2. First and foremost:- Diggers. These will be needed to bury/half bury habitats and mine areas. NASA should start a competition now to design a digger that can work 24/7 under remote control on the lunar surface. Electric joints? Li-ion or fuel cells? Recharging processes? Packaging? - General Purpose Robots. These would be remote controlled and able to undertake simple operations on the lunar surface. They should be as dextrous as an astronaut wearing gloves.3. Then, brick/glass sintering, ice processing (assuming a polar base), and volatiles storage. Then iron extraction. Then finally aluminium. 4. First buildings need to be: - Tents to house reusable landers and protect them from extreme heat and micro-meteorites.- A buried hab module- Workshops. I was thinking something that could be landed on one mission, with two inflatable airlocks that form pressurisable work areas. This would provide a shirt sleeve repair environment.
Given how tricky it is to send humans, all of the above should be shipped out before humans arrive.
How does it progress?
1. Establish base and start water mining
2. Start ore processing and using resusable landers fueled on the lunar surface.
3. Expand the base and build an electromagnetic catapult
4. Exponentially expand the base. Exported lunar material is used to expand the L1 solar base which expands the power available to the base which expands the base operations and range of exports.
5. Build secondary bases and colonisation.
sandrot - 11/3/2008 2:31 PMWhy do you start with solar power? That might be your first show stopper.
alexterrell - 11/3/2008 3:58 PMGood questions.1. Power: I just started a thread under general on using the POWOW concept for the moon. The way I see it is that 10 tons at L1 can deliver 200KWe 24/7 (or is that 600/12?) to the lunar base. So for the launch effort of a single lunar mission, you could probably deliver 1MWe. Solar collectors on "hangers" and buildings could deliver a few hundred KW at the right time of day.2. First and foremost:- Diggers. These will be needed to bury/half bury habitats and mine areas. NASA should start a competition now to design a digger that can work 24/7 under remote control on the lunar surface. Electric joints? Li-ion or fuel cells? Recharging processes? Packaging? - General Purpose Robots. These would be remote controlled and able to undertake simple operations on the lunar surface. They should be as dextrous as an astronaut wearing gloves.3. Then, brick/glass sintering, ice processing (assuming a polar base), and volatiles storage. Then iron extraction. Then finally aluminium. 4. First buildings need to be: - Tents to house reusable landers and protect them from extreme heat and micro-meteorites.- A buried hab module- Workshops. I was thinking something that could be landed on one mission, with two inflatable Good questions.1. Power: I just started a thread under general on using the POWOW concept for the moon. The way I see it is that 10 tons at L1 can deliver 200KWe 24/7 (or is that 600/12?) to the lunar base. So for the launch effort of a single manned mission, you could probably deliver 1GW. Solar collectors on "hangers" and buildings could deliver a few hundred KW at the right time of day.2. First and foremost:- Diggers. These will be needed to bury habitats and mine areas. NASA should start a competition now to design a digger that can work 24/7 under remote control on the lunar surface. Electric joints? Li-ion or fuel cells? Recharging processes? Packaging? - General Purpose Robots. These would be remote controlled and able to undertake simple operations on the lunar surface. They should be as dextrous as an astronaut wearing gloves.3. Then, brick/glass sintering (how about using lego style connection techniques), ice processing (assuming a polar base), and volatiles storage. Then iron extraction. Then finally aluminium. 4. First buildings need to be: - Tents to house reusable landers and protect them from extreme heat and micro-meteorites.- A buried hab module, or a half buried module with lunar soil between the inner and outer shell.- Workshops. I was thinking something that could be landed in one mission, with large inflatable airlocks that form pressurisable work areas. This would provide a shirt sleeve repair environment. Given how tricky it is to send humans, all of the above should be shipped out before humans arrive. How does it progress?1. Establish base and start water mining2. Start ore processing and using resusable landers fueled on the lunar surface.3. Expand the base and build an electromagnetic catapult4. Exponentially expand the base. Exported lunar material is used to expand the L1 solar base which expands the power available to the base which expands the base operations and range of exports.5. Build secondary bases and colonisation.
Good questions.1. Power: I just started a thread under general on using the POWOW concept for the moon. The way I see it is that 10 tons at L1 can deliver 200KWe 24/7 (or is that 600/12?) to the lunar base. So for the launch effort of a single lunar mission, you could probably deliver 1MWe. Solar collectors on "hangers" and buildings could deliver a few hundred KW at the right time of day.2. First and foremost:- Diggers. These will be needed to bury/half bury habitats and mine areas. NASA should start a competition now to design a digger that can work 24/7 under remote control on the lunar surface. Electric joints? Li-ion or fuel cells? Recharging processes? Packaging? - General Purpose Robots. These would be remote controlled and able to undertake simple operations on the lunar surface. They should be as dextrous as an astronaut wearing gloves.3. Then, brick/glass sintering, ice processing (assuming a polar base), and volatiles storage. Then iron extraction. Then finally aluminium. 4. First buildings need to be: - Tents to house reusable landers and protect them from extreme heat and micro-meteorites.- A buried hab module- Workshops. I was thinking something that could be landed on one mission, with two inflatable
Good questions.1. Power: I just started a thread under general on using the POWOW concept for the moon. The way I see it is that 10 tons at L1 can deliver 200KWe 24/7 (or is that 600/12?) to the lunar base. So for the launch effort of a single manned mission, you could probably deliver 1GW. Solar collectors on "hangers" and buildings could deliver a few hundred KW at the right time of day.2. First and foremost:- Diggers. These will be needed to bury habitats and mine areas. NASA should start a competition now to design a digger that can work 24/7 under remote control on the lunar surface. Electric joints? Li-ion or fuel cells? Recharging processes? Packaging? - General Purpose Robots. These would be remote controlled and able to undertake simple operations on the lunar surface. They should be as dextrous as an astronaut wearing gloves.3. Then, brick/glass sintering (how about using lego style connection techniques), ice processing (assuming a polar base), and volatiles storage. Then iron extraction. Then finally aluminium. 4. First buildings need to be: - Tents to house reusable landers and protect them from extreme heat and micro-meteorites.- A buried hab module, or a half buried module with lunar soil between the inner and outer shell.- Workshops. I was thinking something that could be landed in one mission, with large inflatable airlocks that form pressurisable work areas. This would provide a shirt sleeve repair environment.
Big Al - 11/3/2008 6:08 PMIn starting out on this project, I would think NASA would want to send a series of robotic “factories” to the moon to test out different processes for lunar mining. I haven’t seen anything in the way of such a probe mentions, but I would think it would be high on their propriety list. It is an important pathfinder technology for a solid manned lunar program.Under the present lunar exploration program, what are the stated objectives as far as manned lunar exploration? It has occured to me that there needs to be a lot of robotic help in any manned exploration effort, but I haven’t seen a document that outlines the over all plan for our present lunar exploration effort.
A_M_Swallow - 11/3/2008 11:05 PMOxygen will be valuable for both breathing and as a propellant when people arrive so the metal extraction facilities should also try to extract oxygen.
wingod - 11/3/2008 7:14 PMQuotesandrot - 11/3/2008 2:31 PMWhy do you start with solar power? That might be your first show stopper.Solar power on the Moon (assuming a lunar polar location where there is 100% sunlight) is actually a no brainer.
wingod - 12/3/2008 5:31 AMQuoteA_M_Swallow - 11/3/2008 11:05 PMOxygen will be valuable for both breathing and as a propellant when people arrive so the metal extraction facilities should also try to extract oxygen.Since all metals on the Moon are in solution with oxygen, this is assumed.
wingod - 11/3/2008 6:27 PMUnless Spudis is right and there is a LOT of water, I do not think that we want to count on it. Also, mining water at 35 degrees kelvin in the dark is a lot harder than anyone is currently thinking. I am willing to forego it entirely, at least in the beginning.Also, I do agree that robotics and regolith moving machinery is key in the early days as well.The thermal environment at the lunar poles is benign enough to not worry too much about it. I do agree with a hab module, partially or fully buried. However, I don't want to send up a lot of stuff that can be fabricated on the Moon, such as workshops. The ISRU system must be able to create metals and with the metals we can make structures. Micrometeorites are not a big deal for less than one year stays.You are NOT going to deliver anywhere near a GW on a single launch or even a megawatt.Solar collectors on buildings that are not sun pointing are useless in the polar regions due to the angles involved. I do agree with brick sintering as well as a means to sinter a road as developed by Dr. Larry Taylor and his cohorts.The next building has to be able to have an atmosphere to grow food as well.Just some thoughts, good thinking everyone so far.
alexterrell - 12/3/2008 5:05 AM[...] Solar cells can be positioned in space at 10 tons / MW. The only problem is unpacking them. I'd look at inflatable tubes for deployment - the bouncy castle approach.[...]
sandrot - 12/3/2008 8:46 AMQuotealexterrell - 12/3/2008 5:05 AM[...] Solar cells can be positioned in space at 10 tons / MW. The only problem is unpacking them. I'd look at inflatable tubes for deployment - the bouncy castle approach.[...]For the ISS we are at 15 tons / 65kW. Please recheck your numbers.