Author Topic: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel  (Read 4058 times)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« on: 12/14/2019 03:38 pm »
As VG are talking about this more now (including the small investment from Boeing) think it’s time for its own thread

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1205888732597030913

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Virgin Galactic CEO @gtwhitesides on #hypersonic plans:

-Collecting data from SpaceShipTwo
-Structural work to be done, such as ceramic composites (may find a partner for development)
-Propulsion development will take the longest (won’t be rocket-powered)

Interesting last point - not rocket powered?’

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/12/14/space-investing-becoming-real-morgan-stanley-hosts-second-summit.html

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #1 on: 12/14/2019 04:09 pm »
Interesting last point - not rocket powered?’
Is it a coincidence that Boeing also invested in Reaction engines?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/boeing-horizonx-ventures-joins-37-million-reaction-engines-investment.html

A variation of the SABRE engine might fit "not rocket powered."

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #2 on: 12/14/2019 08:30 pm »
I suspect Boeing’s investments in VG and RE are not a co-incidence (as both could potentially produce things of interest to Boeing in ultra high speed transport).

An air breathing engine that can operate from 0 to Mach 5 seems to me like a great propulsion unit for a hypersonic people carrier. Of course you need much more than an engine!

Not clear to me though who will put up the billions needed to develop an airframe etc, even if SABRE is finished and proven. I can’t see VG generating significant further amounts of investment unless/until SS2 is commercially successful.
« Last Edit: 12/14/2019 08:31 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #3 on: 01/16/2020 05:38 pm »
https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1217832708849774593

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Now beginning the Virgin Galactic $SPCE portion of today's conference, with Palermo interviewed by UBS analysts Myles Walton and Jarrod Castle.

Live thread:

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1217839440913141760

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UBS: What does the hypersonic landscape look like?

Palermo: We're going to work with partners to develop a door-to-door solution, because we can't just reduce travel time in the air if it still takes you 2 hours to get to the spaceport and 2 hours to get through security.

Offline Vahe231991

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #4 on: 06/10/2021 10:30 pm »
I suspect Boeing’s investments in VG and RE are not a co-incidence (as both could potentially produce things of interest to Boeing in ultra high speed transport).

An air breathing engine that can operate from 0 to Mach 5 seems to me like a great propulsion unit for a hypersonic people carrier. Of course you need much more than an engine!

Not clear to me though who will put up the billions needed to develop an airframe etc, even if SABRE is finished and proven. I can’t see VG generating significant further amounts of investment unless/until SS2 is commercially successful.
Hypersonic P2P travel is easier at suborbital altitudes. We all know that ramjets cannot work at standstill and that either a rocket engine or a high-performance jet engine similar to the J58 and J93 is required to get the ramjet to ignite at high supersonic or hypersonic speeds. Since Boom Technology has proposed the Overture SST, it is reasonable to believe that Boom could team up with Virgin Galactic to propose a Mach 6 airliner similar to size to the Overture and powered by four packs of RATO boosters under the fuselage for takeoff and rapid climb to altitudes of 50,000 feet and a turbine-based combined-cycle propulsion system whereby the scramjet is largely used in the hypersonic flight regime.

Offline daedalus1

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #5 on: 06/10/2021 10:45 pm »
Passengers do not want super speed, they want comfort a reasonable speed and an affordable ticket price. Concorde is the proof of that.

Offline Hog

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #6 on: 06/17/2021 12:13 pm »
Passengers do not want super speed, they want comfort a reasonable speed and an affordable ticket price. Concorde is the proof of that.
Most Concord passengers didn't know how much a ticket cost.
Paul

Offline Thunderscreech

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #7 on: 06/17/2021 12:29 pm »
Passengers do not want super speed, they want comfort a reasonable speed and an affordable ticket price. Concorde is the proof of that.
Most Concord passengers didn't know how much a ticket cost.
Context for anyone who hasn't heard this: During the first few years of operation, British Airways was losing money hand over fist with Concorde and instituted a program to figure out how to fix this.  One of the things they did was started asking Concorde passengers how much they thought their tickets cost.
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“Most of them didn’t know. It was their secretaries or travel companies doing the bookings. When they were asked to guess, because they were senior, very important people, they all guessed that the fare was higher.  So very simply, we said, we’ll charge them what they think they are paying. And so we put the fares up””
- Captain Jock Lowe, Concorde resource & Planning Manager.

They then doubled the fares and the tickets still kept selling out.
Ben Hallert - @BocaRoad, @FCCSpace, @Spacecareers, @NASAProcurement, and @SpaceTFRs on Twitter

Offline daedalus1

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #8 on: 06/17/2021 01:52 pm »
Passengers do not want super speed, they want comfort a reasonable speed and an affordable ticket price. Concorde is the proof of that.
Most Concord passengers didn't know how much a ticket cost.
Context for anyone who hasn't heard this: During the first few years of operation, British Airways was losing money hand over fist with Concorde and instituted a program to figure out how to fix this.  One of the things they did was started asking Concorde passengers how much they thought their tickets cost.
Quote
“Most of them didn’t know. It was their secretaries or travel companies doing the bookings. When they were asked to guess, because they were senior, very important people, they all guessed that the fare was higher.  So very simply, we said, we’ll charge them what they think they are paying. And so we put the fares up””
- Captain Jock Lowe, Concorde resource & Planning Manager.

They then doubled the fares and the tickets still kept selling out.

But my point is, it doesn't matter what the ticket price was, Concorde is not around anymore.

Offline Thunderscreech

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #9 on: 06/17/2021 03:21 pm »
But my point is, it doesn't matter what the ticket price was, Concorde is not around anymore.
Roger roger, I think the person to whom you responded was speaking solely to the ticket price conundrum part of the thread and referenced an interesting element of the Concorde story that I wanted to expand on because it’s neat and I thought some folks who didn’t know it might be interested. 
Ben Hallert - @BocaRoad, @FCCSpace, @Spacecareers, @NASAProcurement, and @SpaceTFRs on Twitter

Offline CameronD

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #10 on: 07/06/2021 12:06 am »
Maybe it isn't as tangible as Concorde, but you have to admit it's still a very pretty paper aeroplane:
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Vahe231991

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #11 on: 07/06/2021 08:11 pm »
Maybe it isn't as tangible as Concorde, but you have to admit it's still a very pretty paper aeroplane:
This rendering is pretty cool. Any hypersonic airliner design capable of Mach 6 and an altitude of 200,000 feet with a capacity for 100 passengers that Boom jointly envisages with the SpaceShip Company would have to use titanium and a minimal amount of titanium carbide ceramics b/c of heat friction at Mach 3.

Offline CameronD

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Re: Virgin Galactic Hypersonic P2P Travel
« Reply #12 on: 07/08/2021 04:09 am »
Maybe it isn't as tangible as Concorde, but you have to admit it's still a very pretty paper aeroplane:
This rendering is pretty cool. Any hypersonic airliner design capable of Mach 6 and an altitude of 200,000 feet with a capacity for 100 passengers that Boom jointly envisages with the SpaceShip Company would have to use titanium and a minimal amount of titanium carbide ceramics b/c of heat friction at Mach 3.

Perhaps you mean unobtainium??  Whatever breakthrough material they use, if it ever actually makes it off the drawing board this will be one incredibly expensive aircraft to build and operate and, perhaps like it's predecessor, that means uneconomic from the get-go.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

 

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