Author Topic: For All Mankind  (Read 146179 times)

Online sanman

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #620 on: 08/06/2022 12:56 pm »
So Helios has built wealth from lunar mining of Helium-3. Does that make Martian thorium obsolete in their view? Because otherwise, Mars has plenty of thorium which could be of potential use.


Offline saturnsky

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #621 on: 08/06/2022 01:10 pm »
So the question in my mind,,,,,did they beat NASA and Helios??????

Online sanman

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #622 on: 08/06/2022 01:44 pm »
So the North Koreans seem to be the new "Russians" - ie. the new dangerous local antagonist on this heavenly body.

But so Helios' fusion-powered plasma-propelled Starship sounds like it's a generation away.

And what kind of propulsion does NASA's Sojourner spacecraft use? Is it some later generation of NERVA?
Whatever it is, it looks very futuristic - I'm wondering if there are any concept designs that even vaguely resemble it.




Offline su27k

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #623 on: 08/06/2022 02:13 pm »
How could he have made it all the way there without a much larger spacecraft like the other teams have?

You can do human Mars mission with a small spacecraft if:
a. You cut everything to the bone
b. You only send a small crew, one or two person
c. You make it a one way trip (remember Mars One?)

Zubrin once proposed a revised Mars Direct plan using a Dragon capsule as hab and 3 Falcon Heavy launches, with two of the launches for Mars Ascend Vehicle (MAV) and Earth Return Vehicle (ERV). If you don't plan on a return trip, one FH may be enough. You also do not need a heavy lift launch vehicle such as FH if you use orbital refueling, which the show tells us NK did use.

BTW, one way trip doesn't necessarily mean NK plans to kill their astronaut, it just means they're not planning to bring him back. They could send more supply and more people in the next window, basically building up their own Mars colony one person at a time. Wait, isn't that a good reason for US/Helios to continue their own Mars missions? Hmmm...

Online Blackstar

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #624 on: 08/06/2022 02:29 pm »
So Helios has built wealth from lunar mining of Helium-3. Does that make Martian thorium obsolete in their view? Because otherwise, Mars has plenty of thorium which could be of potential use.

In season 4 they will be using unicorn gas harvested from Jupiter's atmosphere.

Online sanman

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #625 on: 08/06/2022 05:29 pm »
You can do human Mars mission with a small spacecraft if:
a. You cut everything to the bone
b. You only send a small crew, one or two person
c. You make it a one way trip (remember Mars One?)

Zubrin once proposed a revised Mars Direct plan using a Dragon capsule as hab and 3 Falcon Heavy launches, with two of the launches for Mars Ascend Vehicle (MAV) and Earth Return Vehicle (ERV). If you don't plan on a return trip, one FH may be enough. You also do not need a heavy lift launch vehicle such as FH if you use orbital refueling, which the show tells us NK did use.

BTW, one way trip doesn't necessarily mean NK plans to kill their astronaut, it just means they're not planning to bring him back. They could send more supply and more people in the next window, basically building up their own Mars colony one person at a time. Wait, isn't that a good reason for US/Helios to continue their own Mars missions? Hmmm...

What puzzles me is that North Korea is on Mars, but China is nowhere to be seen.

(I suspect it's easier to cast DPRK as enemies without losing perceived audience potential)

They better have Taikonauts somewhere in Season 4 at least, or they'll be ignoring a major space power. I didn't even hear China mentioned among the various landers they hoped to cannibalize -- only North Korea, India, and Turkey.

In season 4 they will be using unicorn gas harvested from Jupiter's atmosphere.

Now that you mention it, Jupiter does have a thin upper layer of Helium-3 which a spacecraft could scoop from in principle.

Offline Jeff Lerner

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #626 on: 08/06/2022 06:39 pm »
At this point I think the show has jumped the shark…I realize this is a alternate timeline but I struggle to think of any scenario where North Korea builds up the technology to send an astronaut to Mars before a whole bunch of other countries including South Korea ??…yes, I know they currently have ICBMs but it’s taken them well into the 21st century to make that happen,,let alone in the ‘90’s ..

Online Blackstar

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #627 on: 08/06/2022 07:04 pm »

What puzzles me is that North Korea is on Mars, but China is nowhere to be seen.

(I suspect it's easier to cast DPRK as enemies without losing perceived audience potential)

They better have Taikonauts somewhere in Season 4 at least, or they'll be ignoring a major space power. I didn't even hear China mentioned among the various landers they hoped to cannibalize -- only North Korea, India, and Turkey.

Yeah, that struck me as odd too. But have they addressed China in any of their mini-documentaries that explain what else has happened in the world? Did the Cultural Revolution never end and China remains technologically limited?

Offline jgal

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #628 on: 08/06/2022 07:55 pm »
My take on the NK astronaut and what happens next: North Korea wanted to be first and suprise the world, but probably lost contact with their astronaut during Mars entry and presumed him dead, and therefore keeping quiet about it. Other cuntries considered their craft to be only a probe, so didn't bother to, for example, have a closer satellite look at the landing site (although they should have done it while preparing the Danielle/Kuznetsow journey).
What happens next? Danielle and Grigory aggree to help the NK astronaut, arguing on the way back, whether they should throw him overboard to keep the secret of the first man on Mars to themselves, as he stole the title from them. Kelly needs to have birth immediately, and it is decided that the child (so therefore Kelly also) must stay on Mars (as they both wouldn't survive the launch). Ed promises to return for her, or something like that. We jump a few years again and see a small boy running around the Helios Hab. Ed and Karen advocate for a return to Mars in order to build a better settlement which will sustain their grandson's life, as it would be impossiible for him to survive on Earth due to gravity. North Korea is considered a dangerous competitor to US & USSR, so the space race continues   ;)  ;)  ;)

Online sanman

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #629 on: 08/07/2022 05:56 pm »
Following that landslide scene, the Helios crew say they're scanning the dust-covered area using InSAR(?), which is apparently "Interferometry Synthetic Aperture Radar"

https://www.usgs.gov/programs/VHP/insar-satellite-based-technique-captures-overall-deformation-picture

Quote
InSAR (Interferometric Synthetic Aperture Radar) is a technique for mapping ground deformation using radar images of the Earth's surface that are collected from orbiting satellites. Unlike visible or infrared light, radar waves penetrate most weather clouds and are equally effective in darkness. So with InSAR it is possible to track ground deformation even in bad weather and at night – two big advantages during a volcanic crisis.

So this technology is used for terrestrial data, but will it work just as well on Mars?

Can anything like ground penetrating radar be used from orbit? Or can it only be used at short-range from the surface, as they seemed to be trying to do with mapping lava tubes?
« Last Edit: 08/07/2022 05:58 pm by sanman »

Online Blackstar

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #630 on: 08/07/2022 07:57 pm »
Can anything like ground penetrating radar be used from orbit? Or can it only be used at short-range from the surface, as they seemed to be trying to do with mapping lava tubes?


I think the point was to see through the dust, not to penetrate the ground. They later mention having ground-penetrating radar to attach to a rover.

Offline JayWee

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #631 on: 08/07/2022 08:25 pm »
Can anything like ground penetrating radar be used from orbit? Or can it only be used at short-range from the surface, as they seemed to be trying to do with mapping lava tubes?
See MARSIS / SHARAD and few others. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARSIS)

Offline Lars-J

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #632 on: 08/08/2022 03:35 am »
Re: the NK astronaut. There is no indication that he landed first. After all, based on time passed (based on Kelly's pregnancy), it seems like NASA/Roscomos/Helios landed about 8-9 months before.

So IMO the likely scenario is that NK sent a mission, but lost contact with the crew (1 or 2), so never announced it. Just like the Soviets had a tendency to only announce successful missions.

But I hope they make the explanation credible... Him and maybe 1-2 others surviving for almost a year with meager supplies does not seem credible. Otherwise, who will the find on Mars next? It will be a who-s-who of any country with spacefaring capability.  ;)
« Last Edit: 08/08/2022 03:37 am by Lars-J »

Offline libra

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #633 on: 08/08/2022 09:01 am »

What puzzles me is that North Korea is on Mars, but China is nowhere to be seen.

(I suspect it's easier to cast DPRK as enemies without losing perceived audience potential)

They better have Taikonauts somewhere in Season 4 at least, or they'll be ignoring a major space power. I didn't even hear China mentioned among the various landers they hoped to cannibalize -- only North Korea, India, and Turkey.

Yeah, that struck me as odd too. But have they addressed China in any of their mini-documentaries that explain what else has happened in the world? Did the Cultural Revolution never end and China remains technologically limited?

Just kill Deng Xiaoping sometimes between 1962 and Mao's death in 1976. It came close many times (Deng was one heck of a resilient guy) and even from early 1977 his rise to prominence was far from obvious.

Have this guy, Mao unexpected and not-so-bright successor, stay in power longer and things won't move as fast as they did OTL.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua_Guofeng

Online sanman

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #634 on: 08/08/2022 10:33 am »
Re: the NK astronaut. There is no indication that he landed first. After all, based on time passed (based on Kelly's pregnancy), it seems like NASA/Roscomos/Helios landed about 8-9 months before.

So IMO the likely scenario is that NK sent a mission, but lost contact with the crew (1 or 2), so never announced it. Just like the Soviets had a tendency to only announce successful missions.

But I hope they make the explanation credible... Him and maybe 1-2 others surviving for almost a year with meager supplies does not seem credible. Otherwise, who will the find on Mars next? It will be a who-s-who of any country with spacefaring capability.  ;)

Maybe a North Korean Mark Watney? Growing potatoes or some crops hydroponically?

Okay, I guess it makes sense that he's arrived more recently. We don't know whether he's alone or if he has comrades with him.

Cold War space race seems to be a key theme in For All Mankind. Right now NK seems like a successor to the Russians in the role of key antagonist in the show. But I wonder what NK's goals are with this mission? Is there some particular resource that they're after?

Offline EE Scott

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #635 on: 08/08/2022 12:13 pm »
I'd say the USSR has to remain the bad guys on a country-basis, even if individual Soviet and U.S. astronauts are working well together. Let's not forget what they've done and continue to do to Sergei. But you never know.

Also - is anybody else listening to the Apple+ For All Mankind podcasts?  I've been enjoying them.


Scott

Online M.E.T.

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #636 on: 08/08/2022 04:53 pm »
Caught up with the last 4 episodes over the weekend. This show has become a sad parody of what it could have been.

Basically one big social commentary project. I could go into detail, but won’t as you all know it already, and it’s better not to go there.

And to top it all off they went with the Red Dawn remake approach from a few years ago (the one where they had the North Koreans invade the continental US, because the film makers were too afraid to pick China as the more realistic adversaries). Now they have North Korea landing a man on Mars😂.

Edit: Oh, and to stay on song supporting “the latest thing”, they had a Helios board member slip in the bit about Dev “becoming wacky in recent years because he started buying into his own myth…”. And having the female COO replace him…Now who could they possibly be having a dig at there, I wonder…

Laughable. All of it.
« Last Edit: 08/08/2022 05:11 pm by M.E.T. »

Offline su27k

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #637 on: 08/09/2022 02:32 am »
Edit: Oh, and to stay on song supporting “the latest thing”, they had a Helios board member slip in the bit about Dev “becoming wacky in recent years because he started buying into his own myth…”. And having the female COO replace him…Now who could they possibly be having a dig at there, I wonder…

Laughable.

Hehe, if that's their intention, the joke's on them, since the real world Dev has absolute control of the board due to him owning 70% of the voting shares, and the real world female COO is absolute loyal to him given she's been working with him for 20 years.

Anyway, out of all the attempted dig from Hollywood at you know who, this is a pretty mild one, I'll let it pass...

Online yuebai

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #638 on: 08/09/2022 09:00 am »
to be honest,if for all mankind make china as a villain,i think that is funny ,because for all mankind is really good tv play about space.but nk,it is not bad too

Offline ccdengr

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Re: For All Mankind
« Reply #639 on: 08/09/2022 06:03 pm »
But have they addressed China in any of their mini-documentaries that explain what else has happened in the world?
Yes.  As noted upthread
Quote
The season 3 opener had a headline from June 1987 about China establishing a moon base and achieving "lunar parity" with the US and USSR by 1990 (?).
but then they seem to have forgotten about it.  https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mst3kMantra

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