Author Topic: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X  (Read 43986 times)

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #40 on: 05/25/2020 03:43 pm »
I might have understood from the NASA live stream that is covering the berthing of HTV-9 that the next HTV flight, which will be an HTV-X, will dock to the ISS. Can anyone confirm?
Per JAXA and MHI HTV-X1 animations and information it will be berthed initially.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37623.msg2010006#msg2010006
« Last Edit: 05/25/2020 03:48 pm by russianhalo117 »

Offline soltasto

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #41 on: 05/25/2020 04:50 pm »
I might have understood from the NASA live stream that is covering the berthing of HTV-9 that the next HTV flight, which will be an HTV-X, will dock to the ISS. Can anyone confirm?
Per JAXA and MHI HTV-X1 animations and information it will be berthed initially.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37623.msg2010006#msg2010006

Found a replay of the stream:

Quote
This is the final flight of a berthing HTV, the next generation of HTVs spacecraft will be HTV-X with the ability to dock to the international space station heading to the international docking adapters that are located on the forward end of the international space station.

So they either changed their mind and pulled forward the docking HTV-X or the NASA PAO was given incorrect information.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #42 on: 05/25/2020 05:52 pm »
I might have understood from the NASA live stream that is covering the berthing of HTV-9 that the next HTV flight, which will be an HTV-X, will dock to the ISS. Can anyone confirm?
Per JAXA and MHI HTV-X1 animations and information it will be berthed initially.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37623.msg2010006#msg2010006

Found a replay of the stream:

Quote
This is the final flight of a berthing HTV, the next generation of HTVs spacecraft will be HTV-X with the ability to dock to the international space station heading to the international docking adapters that are located on the forward end of the international space station.

So they either changed their mind and pulled forward the docking HTV-X or the NASA PAO was given incorrect information.
The JAXA webcasts and other 2020 documentation showed HTV-X1 and mentioned HTV-X2 berthing and HTV-X3 not flying unpressurized cargo and berthing initially until its primary mission was completed then being unberthed going outside KOS then flipping around performing an experimental docking. The launch webcast only showed the active docking system minus a hatch although older documentation shows a tunnel through the SM to a second hatch in PLC bulkhead opposite of the PCBM hatch and perpendicular to the PLC's late load cargo side hatch for use after encapsulation by the PLF. For Gateway the HTV-X evolve into a tug system with PLC resupply modules, ULC pallets, propellant and gasses resupply modules, and the SM all having two active IDSS docking systems (SM tug confirmed both active). Upon return to earth the SM tug enters an elliptical orbit and first refuels as needed then loiters until its cargo arrives. One can module can dock to either end of the tug (can be either matched or mixed pairs). Then then it performs its transfer burns. It is a case of rinse and repeat.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #43 on: 08/15/2020 06:23 am »
Looks like HTV-X may be used to supply the Artemis Gateway:

http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201908260031.html

Quote
In a vital lifeline for a next-generation lunar orbiting space station, the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) plans to develop a larger unmanned transport spacecraft to ferry supplies.

For the development, the science ministry will earmark about 10.8 billion yen ($102 million) in its budget request for fiscal 2020, sources said.

The new spacecraft is expected to have a larger transport capacity than the unmanned supply ship, H-II Transfer Vehicle (HTV), also called Kounotori (stork), which is currently transporting goods to the International Space Station (ISS).
« Last Edit: 08/15/2020 06:24 am by Ronsmytheiii »

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #44 on: 08/15/2020 06:38 am »
Will the H-III rocket have enough delta-v to get an HTV-X out to the Gateway orbit?
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Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #45 on: 08/15/2020 07:14 am »
Will the H-III rocket have enough delta-v to get an HTV-X out to the Gateway orbit?
Their is a planned H-III upgrade path. See above thread and the H-III threads.

Offline ncb1397

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #46 on: 08/15/2020 07:18 am »
Will the H-III rocket have enough delta-v to get an HTV-X out to the Gateway orbit?

Yes, sort of. It requires 2 launches and earth orbit rendezvous.

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #47 on: 08/15/2020 07:42 am »
Excellent - that's what should be done with Vulcan-Centaur and Falcon Heavy for crewed launches. But that's another story for another thread...
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Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #48 on: 08/15/2020 05:06 pm »
Will the H-III rocket have enough delta-v to get an HTV-X out to the Gateway orbit?

JAXA could just lofted a heavily laden HTV-X to LEO and hitched a ride with a SX Moonship. Just like the original Constellation concept of the Orion riding on the Altair lander. :)

It will be a lot cheaper and quicker than uprating the H-III or developed a new transfer stage. Maybe even Maezawa-San's old ride.

Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #49 on: 08/15/2020 08:18 pm »
I've attached the image I've seen of possible H3 upgrades for lunar missions, which is from this SpaceNews article:
https://spacenews.com/mitsubishi-heavy-industries-mulls-upgraded-h3-rocket-variants-for-lunar-missions/

I would note that the article says they could conduct the dual launch mission by 2025/2026. So this isn't a super near term thing.

That was apparently still under consideration in March, according to the last line of this article:
https://spacenews.com/mhi-pressing-through-pandemic-toward-late-2020-h3-rocket-debut/
« Last Edit: 08/15/2020 08:22 pm by JEF_300 »
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #50 on: 08/15/2020 10:24 pm »
I've attached the image I've seen of possible H3 upgrades for lunar missions, which is from this SpaceNews article:
https://spacenews.com/mitsubishi-heavy-industries-mulls-upgraded-h3-rocket-variants-for-lunar-missions/

I would note that the article says they could conduct the dual launch mission by 2025/2026. So this isn't a super near term thing.
<snip>

I remember that news article.

The key points are the lift capacity of 28.3 tonnes to LEO with the tri-core H-III Heavy variant by 2030. Which is only about 6 tonnes more than an expended Falcon 9.

Also the proposed development timeline of having all the hardware needed to go to the Gateway by 2026 is quite optimistic, IMO.

Offline sdsds

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #51 on: 08/15/2020 11:51 pm »
Note in the Japanese launch thread Fuji has the first launch of H-3 in JFY 2020, which ends March 31, 2021. So we'll soon have a better read on the possible timeline for launching HTV-X. I'm particularly hopeful about the distributed launch mission architecture!

[...]
JFY 2020 - H-3 TF1 - ALOS-3 advanced optical earth observation satellite "先進光学衛星"
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Offline SMS

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #52 on: 08/21/2020 09:23 am »
New site about HTV-X: https://iss.jaxa.jp/htv-x/ (only in Japanese).

SPECIFICATIONS

Specifications of HTV-X currently under development

full length
    About 8.0 m
    (including heat shield wall)

Diameter
    About 4.4 m

Mass at launch
    About 16.0 tons

Supply Ability: Pressurized Cargo
    Up to 4.07 tons

Supply Ability: Exposed Cargo
    Up to 1.75 tons

Orbit: altitude
    300-500 km

Orbit: Orbit inclination angle
    About 51.6 degrees

Mission period:
ISS mooring period
    Up to 6 months

Mission period:
Flight ability after leaving the ISS
    Up to 1.5 years
    (technology demonstration mission period)
« Last Edit: 08/21/2020 09:46 am by SMS »
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Online Skyrocket

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #53 on: 08/21/2020 10:42 am »
New site about HTV-X: https://iss.jaxa.jp/htv-x/ (only in Japanese).

If i get it right from the Google translation, the HTV-X is named "Kotonotori"

Offline Welsh Dragon

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #54 on: 08/21/2020 03:10 pm »
New site about HTV-X: https://iss.jaxa.jp/htv-x/ (only in Japanese).

If i get it right from the Google translation, the HTV-X is named "Kotonotori"
HTV was named that already. It's not new for HTV-X

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #55 on: 08/21/2020 06:11 pm »
New site about HTV-X: https://iss.jaxa.jp/htv-x/ (only in Japanese).
If i get it right from the Google translation, the HTV-X is named "Kotonotori"
HTV was named that already. It's not new for HTV-X

Via Google translate, does kounotori = kotonotori ?
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Offline Bean Kenobi

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #56 on: 08/21/2020 08:35 pm »
New site about HTV-X: https://iss.jaxa.jp/htv-x/ (only in Japanese).

If i get it right from the Google translation, the HTV-X is named "Kotonotori"
HTV was named that already. It's not new for HTV-X

HTV was named "Kounotori", not the same name apparently.
« Last Edit: 08/21/2020 08:37 pm by Bean Kenobi »

Offline Parker Huntington

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #57 on: 08/21/2020 08:53 pm »
New site about HTV-X: https://iss.jaxa.jp/htv-x/ (only in Japanese).

If i get it right from the Google translation, the HTV-X is named "Kotonotori"
HTV was named that already. It's not new for HTV-X

HTV was named "Kounotori", not the same name apparently.

Unless Skyrocket got it from somewhere else, I think that is a typo. The JAXA website (https://iss.jaxa.jp/htv-x/) says right under HTV-X "は宇宙ステーション補給機「こうのとり」(HTV)の意志を受け継ぐ次世代の無人補給船です". Google translate spits out "Konotori" for 「こうのとり」, however the more standard romanization would be "Kounotori". I looks to me like an extra "to" got added in there by accident. Maybe even someone mistyped 「ことのとり」somewhere. Also, Kounotori comes from stork I think, but I don't think kotonotori means anything. That said, one of the forum members in Japan probably has a better answer to this.

Offline yg1968

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Re: Redesigned HTV:HTV-X
« Reply #58 on: 09/25/2020 12:23 am »
See below:

Quote from: Eric Berger
Japan will invest $760 million into the Artemis program in the coming fiscal year. This is a solid investment, and will make it more difficult for the program to be politically unwound.

https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1309153731175419911

Quote
The cost for developing the HTV-X cargo ship, which would deliver supplies to a new space station planned to orbit the moon, is the highest-priced item, landing at more than 60 billion yen, according to the proposed budget. That in itself is a significant increase from the 7.5 billion yen approved for the current fiscal year.

http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13756702

Offline SMS

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