...Doesn't anyone here have any reply at all to the substance of this paper? Just throwing out insults without providing any justification for the insults isn't very persuasive.
Quote from: glennfish on 10/28/2015 02:13 amQuote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 01:57 amAttached is a paper just released by reddit user potomac_neuron who suggests emdrive effects are lorentz force induced. A video of the torsion balance test stand is included.Nope. John Baez has some incredibly powerful critiques. This barely makes the chinese fortune cookie level.There are many very good reasons to claim EM drives can't work. There are probably MORE good reasons to claim this group should never be admitted to high school.On the otherhand, they could be commended for taking a swat at this.IMHO. And I'm being nice. Sorry.Can't wait to see CK's comments on Reddit. He was all over this paper chomping for a chance to read it. I see dry heaves in his future.Nice compass? Sorry I'm sure he tried, no bad data.
Quote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 01:57 amAttached is a paper just released by reddit user potomac_neuron who suggests emdrive effects are lorentz force induced. A video of the torsion balance test stand is included.Nope. John Baez has some incredibly powerful critiques. This barely makes the chinese fortune cookie level.There are many very good reasons to claim EM drives can't work. There are probably MORE good reasons to claim this group should never be admitted to high school.On the otherhand, they could be commended for taking a swat at this.IMHO. And I'm being nice. Sorry.Can't wait to see CK's comments on Reddit. He was all over this paper chomping for a chance to read it. I see dry heaves in his future.
Attached is a paper just released by reddit user potomac_neuron who suggests emdrive effects are lorentz force induced. A video of the torsion balance test stand is included.
OK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?
Quote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 04:28 pmOK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?visual
Quote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 04:28 pmOK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?I think it is this: If you have a compass on its side such that N points towards the sky and W points north, then it will rotate itself such that N points north and W points towards the ground. That rotation is on the axis that could make a balance beam tilt, so we would describe the force it's producing as having a vertical component.
Quote from: not_a_physicist on 10/28/2015 05:27 pmQuote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 04:28 pmOK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?I think it is this: If you have a compass on its side such that N points towards the sky and W points north, then it will rotate itself such that N points north and W points towards the ground. That rotation is on the axis that could make a balance beam tilt, so we would describe the force it's producing as having a vertical component.The earths field isn't as simple as a bar magnet with a piece of paper over it and iron fillings scattered on it.Shell
Quote from: SeeShells on 10/28/2015 05:43 pmQuote from: not_a_physicist on 10/28/2015 05:27 pmQuote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 04:28 pmOK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?I think it is this: If you have a compass on its side such that N points towards the sky and W points north, then it will rotate itself such that N points north and W points towards the ground. That rotation is on the axis that could make a balance beam tilt, so we would describe the force it's producing as having a vertical component.The earths field isn't as simple as a bar magnet with a piece of paper over it and iron fillings scattered on it.ShellGravity is dependent on location as well. I wonder if there is any relationship between thrust and the local magnetic field or gravity?
Its where I'm having trouble as well. Gravity is a non-polarized vertical force, perpendicular to magnetic lines of force. Any vertical component of magnetism makes no sense to me without a gravity interaction.
Quote from: SeeShells on 10/28/2015 05:43 pmQuote from: not_a_physicist on 10/28/2015 05:27 pmQuote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 04:28 pmOK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?I think it is this: If you have a compass on its side such that N points towards the sky and W points north, then it will rotate itself such that N points north and W points towards the ground. That rotation is on the axis that could make a balance beam tilt, so we would describe the force it's producing as having a vertical component.The earths field isn't as simple as a bar magnet with a piece of paper over it and iron fillings scattered on it.ShellGuess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue (Airplane 1980) but what gives a vertical force to a common compass, which I can only imagine as a horizontal force? Help me shell...
Resonance does create more heat than no resonance though. This is very well known and nothing new; it has to do with impedance, power factor, etc. The short of it is that in the real world, all resonant systems will reach a maximum stored energy where they dissipate energy at the same rate they take energy in, because no system is perfectly resonant in the sense of zero losses. At resonance, more energy is delivered to the system than if it were off resonance. Hence more power is dissipated and therefore the system gets hotter. So unfortunately, characterizing thermal lift by screwing around with resonance won't work, because thermal lift is itself intimately tied in with resonance. Change resonance, change thermal lift.
Quote from: not_a_physicist on 10/28/2015 05:27 pmQuote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 04:28 pmOK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?I think it is this: If you have a compass on its side such that N points towards the sky and W points north, then it will rotate itself such that N points north and W points towards the ground. That rotation is on the axis that could make a balance beam tilt, so we would describe the force it's producing as having a vertical component.Hmmm, trying to visualize if the vertical component is up or down. In my test setup, the frustum was on the east end of an east-west balance beam. The twisted supply wires extended from midpoint to the frustum, about 3.5 feet total. This would give an upwards force?
Quote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 06:04 pmQuote from: SeeShells on 10/28/2015 05:43 pmQuote from: not_a_physicist on 10/28/2015 05:27 pmQuote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 04:28 pmOK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?I think it is this: If you have a compass on its side such that N points towards the sky and W points north, then it will rotate itself such that N points north and W points towards the ground. That rotation is on the axis that could make a balance beam tilt, so we would describe the force it's producing as having a vertical component.The earths field isn't as simple as a bar magnet with a piece of paper over it and iron fillings scattered on it.ShellGuess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue (Airplane 1980) but what gives a vertical force to a common compass, which I can only imagine as a horizontal force? Help me shell... The field for all intents slices parallel to the surface of the earth N>S. If you pointed a compass point to the sky (up) and released it it would want to move and position itself to point north and south in a horizontal plane to the earth. If your at the North Pole it becomes different and you have a vertical component.Not sure where he is getting a vertical force from.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_forceIn real materials the Lorentz force is inadequate to describe the behavior of charged particles, both in principle and as a matter of computation. The charged particles in a material medium both respond to the E and B fields and generate these fields. Complex transport equations must be solved to determine the time and spatial response of charges, for example, the Boltzmann equation or the Fokker–Planck equation or the Navier–Stokes equations.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force#/media/File:Charged-particle-drifts.svg
Quote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 05:51 pmQuote from: not_a_physicist on 10/28/2015 05:27 pmQuote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 04:28 pmOK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?I think it is this: If you have a compass on its side such that N points towards the sky and W points north, then it will rotate itself such that N points north and W points towards the ground. That rotation is on the axis that could make a balance beam tilt, so we would describe the force it's producing as having a vertical component.Hmmm, trying to visualize if the vertical component is up or down. In my test setup, the frustum was on the east end of an east-west balance beam. The twisted supply wires extended from midpoint to the frustum, about 3.5 feet total. This would give an upwards force?I'm not qualified to do anything besides wiggle the compass on my desk around and tell you what it does, but for what it's worth I don't see how an east-west balance beam would be pushed up or down either.
Quote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 06:07 pmIts where I'm having trouble as well. Gravity is a non-polarized vertical force, perpendicular to magnetic lines of force. Any vertical component of magnetism makes no sense to me without a gravity interaction.This is only my second post in this discussion, but I'll see if maybe I can help you visual this. Remember that they're called electromagnetic fields. The magnetic field given off by a standard magnet does not exist in a two dimensional plane. It is easy to think of it in that manner, but in reality it emanates in all directions from the north and south poles of the magnet, forming essentially two spheres that meet in the middle of the magnet. After all, the magnet exists in three dimensional space and it exerts its magnetic force equally in all directions around both its poles.Let's say we have two rectangular prism shaped magnets. The south pole of one is placed near the north pole of the other. No matter what direction the first magnet approaches from, it is attracted to the second magnet. This is because both magnets are generating their magnet fields in all directions of three dimensional space and not only within a two dimensional plane.The Earth's magnetic field is all around us and also occupies three dimensional space. However, we tend to think of the Earth as being more two dimensional because we see such a small portion of its spherical surface that it appears flat, even though we know this not to be the case. The only time we really think about the Earth's magnetic field is when we make use of a compass, however, the motion of any compass we use is constrained to a two-dimensional plane, this reinforces the notion of the two dimensionality of the Earth's magnetic field. In reality, the North pole isn't only North of you, in the direction a compass points though, at least not it terms of its location relative to you in three dimensional space. Think about your position relative to the north pole in terms of an x, y vector that travels through the earth's center, and I think you'll understand why there could potentially be a vertical component to this lorentz force.On a related note, I've been following the discussion since the third discussion thread, through I completely missed the fourth one. It's really quite fascinating. I'm just finishing up a degree in Industrial Design myself, so I can't claim to be any sort of Engineer or anything like that, but I am good with 3D design software, though most of my student liscenses are just about to run out and I'm fairly good at prototyping. I also have some experience with 3D printing. I've also pre-ordered a Peachy Printer, which is a really cool $100 3D Printer.It floats liquid resin on top of salt water and cures it with a laser. The cool thing about it is that the build area can be customized. The developers have finished with the testing phases and are starting to ramp up production. They're going to start shipping out in December, so I'll be getting mine sometime around then, at the earliest. Given that I can print any build size I want with the Peachy Printer, I might be able to print some Hermetically sealed chambers for some of the DIYers on the site. Of course, that all is months away at this point, but just thought I'd offer my services. Of course, people could also order a Peachy Printer for themselves, seeing as how it's only $100, and then print up a chamber on their own.