Quote from: vaporcobra on 09/21/2016 08:49 pmQuote from: Marslauncher on 09/21/2016 07:55 pmPotentially some cost if SpaceX will be going anyway (who pays for the payload?) unclear yet.Q) If SpaceX are able to propose this cheaper and faster, is there any thought on if NASA would make this an agency mission?A) No, it would have had to have been thought of and proposed many years ago.Wow, maybe I'm misinterpreting but this response seems extraordinarily arrogant.I think the correct interpretation here is that for Red Dragon to become a NASA mission would require a much longer process proposal and review process. As a private SpaceX mission that isn't required.
Quote from: Marslauncher on 09/21/2016 07:55 pmPotentially some cost if SpaceX will be going anyway (who pays for the payload?) unclear yet.Q) If SpaceX are able to propose this cheaper and faster, is there any thought on if NASA would make this an agency mission?A) No, it would have had to have been thought of and proposed many years ago.Wow, maybe I'm misinterpreting but this response seems extraordinarily arrogant.
Potentially some cost if SpaceX will be going anyway (who pays for the payload?) unclear yet.Q) If SpaceX are able to propose this cheaper and faster, is there any thought on if NASA would make this an agency mission?A) No, it would have had to have been thought of and proposed many years ago.
*snip* I think since 2012, there have been graphics floating around of Red Dragon sitting on Mars.*/snip*
Quote from: robert_d on 05/02/2016 05:31 pmPayload should include some form of deployable solar arrays - and the means to clean them of the dust. If there were circular sets it might be as simple as a rotating wand/brush . That and a camera and possibly a scooper arm to dig down a bit might be enough for flight 1. A good telescope to show Earth and Moon from Mars would be cool too.A lot of people seem to be overestimating how much Red Dragon is going to do. Red Dragon will be a stripped down Dragon 2 with lots of sensors, some interplanetary comms and no scientific payload. It will not deploy a rover. It will not have solar panels (other than what's on the trunk). It will be battery powered and take a few photos. The main purpose of the mission is to get data return on EDL techniques that will input into the design of MCT. Two years is not enough time to design build and test anything fancy.
Payload should include some form of deployable solar arrays - and the means to clean them of the dust. If there were circular sets it might be as simple as a rotating wand/brush . That and a camera and possibly a scooper arm to dig down a bit might be enough for flight 1. A good telescope to show Earth and Moon from Mars would be cool too.
We still don't know what payload there may be. SpaceX still is interested in a payload but haven't narrowed down everything yet.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/22/2016 11:45 amWe still don't know what payload there may be. SpaceX still is interested in a payload but haven't narrowed down everything yet.Some type of ISRU demonstrator is most likely, eg extracting oxygen from CO2.The plus side of this mission is most payloads a not mission critical so they can be lower TRL demostrators. I hoping they can fly drone.
... SpaceX is going to be mining water on the surface, and their rockets are methane-based. Since they're making the methane on the surface, they get more oxygen than they need as a byproduct of that, ...
Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/22/2016 06:02 pm... SpaceX is going to be mining water on the surface, and their rockets are methane-based. Since they're making the methane on the surface, they get more oxygen than they need as a byproduct of that, ...Is this just assuming a fuel rich engine? If stoichiometric I would assume no excess.
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 09/22/2016 05:39 pmQuote from: Robotbeat on 09/22/2016 11:45 amWe still don't know what payload there may be. SpaceX still is interested in a payload but haven't narrowed down everything yet.Some type of ISRU demonstrator is most likely, eg extracting oxygen from CO2.The plus side of this mission is most payloads a not mission critical so they can be lower TRL demostrators. I hoping they can fly drone.Doesnt make sense unless they're flying a MOXIE clone.SpaceX is going to be mining water on the surface, and their rockets are methane-based. Since they're making the methane on the surface, they get more oxygen than they need as a byproduct of that, plus A they'd just be duplicating the payload on NASA's 2020 rover. The likely type of payloads were shown in previous Red Mars presentations. Water extraction, in particular, would be the most useful.
No reason to rule out ground-contact experiments. Elon even wrote a quick tweet saying you could deploy a lander with Red Dragon (sounded very confident a bout it, as if significant analysis had been done), then deleted the tweet.I will say battery operations is supported by Phil's statements about (just) a few days surface operations, but SpaceX seems to be both changing plans on an ongoing basis and not always updating NASA on what they're doing (right away), so longer operations can't be firmly ruled out either.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/23/2016 01:32 pmNo reason to rule out ground-contact experiments. Elon even wrote a quick tweet saying you could deploy a lander with Red Dragon (sounded very confident a bout it, as if significant analysis had been done), then deleted the tweet.I will say battery operations is supported by Phil's statements about (just) a few days surface operations, but SpaceX seems to be both changing plans on an ongoing basis and not always updating NASA on what they're doing (right away), so longer operations can't be firmly ruled out either.This first Red Dragon mission will not be the only Red Dragon mission. There are plenty of payloads they can develop for subsequent missions once past this initial demonstrator phase.
Holy cow, someone is making an epically long speech right now under guise of a "question." (Mostly complaining about duplication and reinventing the wheel or something?)