Quote from: Star One on 08/13/2014 10:11 amQuote from: Stormbringer on 08/13/2014 07:25 amwell if the ME idea turns out to be valid there might be an Ansible in it for free. of course accepting the ME idea there are several proposed mechanisms by which it could work. but if the ME is valid and it turns out to involve Freeman's advanced and retarded wave explanation then because inertia would be a result of communication with distal parts of the universe then you should be able to modulate an ME device output and send encoded information.I am not sure that's a very good idea to send out info to who knows what & where.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8642558.stmThat Ansible would help explain the Fermi Paradox! I have a general magnetism question that this thread has made pop into my mind. How can magnets attract or repel each other indefinitely without expending energy? If I put two ring magnets on a pole with the same pole facing each other, the magnet on the top will float above the magnet on the bottom, the repulsive force overcoming gravity, and the equilibrium distance between the two is determined by the field strength of the magnets. All that is well and good, but how does this happen without the repulsive (or attractive) effect fading over time and the magnets getting warm or otherwise emitting photons? In other words, the floating magnet is continually resisting an accelerative force due to gravity, so it (and the other magnet) has to expend energy to counter gravity for it to stay afloat. So where does that continual input energy come from? Even if it's at the nuclear level, there has to be an expenditure somewhere in order to negate gravitational acceleration.
Quote from: Stormbringer on 08/13/2014 07:25 amwell if the ME idea turns out to be valid there might be an Ansible in it for free. of course accepting the ME idea there are several proposed mechanisms by which it could work. but if the ME is valid and it turns out to involve Freeman's advanced and retarded wave explanation then because inertia would be a result of communication with distal parts of the universe then you should be able to modulate an ME device output and send encoded information.I am not sure that's a very good idea to send out info to who knows what & where.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8642558.stm
well if the ME idea turns out to be valid there might be an Ansible in it for free. of course accepting the ME idea there are several proposed mechanisms by which it could work. but if the ME is valid and it turns out to involve Freeman's advanced and retarded wave explanation then because inertia would be a result of communication with distal parts of the universe then you should be able to modulate an ME device output and send encoded information.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 08/14/2014 06:56 pmConceptually, it's the same as a book lying on a desk. Desk is exerting a force on the book to counteract gravity but no energy is expended. Energy is force times distance. If a force is exerted on an object but the object doesn't move, no energy need be expended.Thanks for responding! How can a force be exerted without expending energy? (serious question). If I hold my fat aunt above my head and she doesn't move, I'm still using energy to exert a force to counter gravity. Aren't atoms and particles doing the same? Inversely, can't I also expend energy to squeeze them together until the atoms can no longer resist fusing and then lots of their energy is released. Is the energy expended still zero until the whole thing collapses?
Conceptually, it's the same as a book lying on a desk. Desk is exerting a force on the book to counteract gravity but no energy is expended. Energy is force times distance. If a force is exerted on an object but the object doesn't move, no energy need be expended.
Regrettably coercivity dashes all hopes.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoercivityIt is a cruel universe
Quote from: SteveKelsey on 08/14/2014 11:26 pmRegrettably coercivity dashes all hopes.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoercivityIt is a cruel universeSo coercivity seems to imply that there is a fixed amount of time that it will levitate the other magnet, and whatever is actually responsible for the levitation will dissipate as heat over time. Right? No magic involved, something is being spent.
The interaction between macroscopic objects can be roughly described as resulting from the electromagnetic interactions between protons and electrons of the atomic constituents of these objects. Everyday objects do not actually touch each other; rather, contact forces are the result of the interactions of the electrons at or near the surfaces of the objects (exchange force).
The effect of time on modern permanent magnets is minimal. .../... Over 100,000 hours, these losses are in the range of essentially zero for Samarium Cobalt materials...
SmCo exhibits significant demagnetization when irradiated with a proton beam of 10^9 to 10^10 rads
it could if energy could be transferred to another frame of reference. No violation of laws, net thrust.
The CMB frame of reference is a physical entity.
It's like saying I'm going to work on extracting energy from the number 3.
Says me, yes.Think about it carefully.When you have, get back to me.
Quote from: sghill on 08/14/2014 07:16 pmQuote from: Robotbeat on 08/14/2014 06:56 pmConceptually, it's the same as a book lying on a desk. Desk is exerting a force on the book to counteract gravity but no energy is expended. Energy is force times distance. If a force is exerted on an object but the object doesn't move, no energy need be expended.Thanks for responding! How can a force be exerted without expending energy? (serious question). If I hold my fat aunt above my head and she doesn't move, I'm still using energy to exert a force to counter gravity. ......A solid "passive" object like a chair can hold a force on an object without expending any energy but it cant follow displacement in the direction of force, if aunty is an inch above chair then chair is no longer exerting force on aunty
Quote from: Robotbeat on 08/14/2014 06:56 pmConceptually, it's the same as a book lying on a desk. Desk is exerting a force on the book to counteract gravity but no energy is expended. Energy is force times distance. If a force is exerted on an object but the object doesn't move, no energy need be expended.Thanks for responding! How can a force be exerted without expending energy? (serious question). If I hold my fat aunt above my head and she doesn't move, I'm still using energy to exert a force to counter gravity. ...
Quote from: IslandPlaya on 08/16/2014 10:12 pmSays me, yes.Think about it carefully.When you have, get back to me. The CMB is a certain reference frame (just like another reference frame), but why the crap should you be able to push against it or whatever you're talking about? There is no "ether."
Energy density of CMB is ~1eV/cm-3, comparable to that of starlight in the Milky Way.
frobnfiahdfh:The virtual particles work the same in every reference frame. And you COULD "push" on them, if you wanted to expend the necessary energy to make them real particles, but that'd be no more efficient than a photon drive.
If you pardon me the explanation of "energy equal force multiplied by distance and there is no distance involved", in my opinion of a layman is not enough to answer to "how a force can be exerted without expending energy". Actually it seems to me more a tautology than an explanation.