Author Topic: China to have new rockets  (Read 524583 times)

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #700 on: 12/11/2021 03:01 am »
The correct name is CZ-5DY.
Maybe CZ-5U or CZ-9U is better.
Yes, but that's not what the Chinese are using.
« Last Edit: 12/11/2021 03:03 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline zzabur

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #701 on: 12/12/2021 12:40 am »
It comes from the words 登陆月球, or Dēnglů yučqiú in Pinyin, which means moon landing in Chinese.

Offline luhai167

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #702 on: 12/28/2021 06:17 pm »
CCTV documentary on CZ-5 Y2 failure and CZ-5 Y3 return to flight. Including interview with engineers.


Offline Vultur

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #703 on: 12/30/2021 12:54 am »
New generation crewed rocket (usually be called project 921 rocket) and heavy rocket (usually be called CZ-9) are currently in R/D 

So the 921 and the CZ-9 are two different rockets? Which one is supposed to be the crew launcher for lunar missions?

The correct name is CZ-5DY.
Maybe CZ-5U or CZ-9U is better.
Yes, but that's not what the Chinese are using.

Is CZ-5DY the correct name for the one also called CZ-9, or the "project 921"?

Offline XRZ.YZ

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #704 on: 12/30/2021 03:06 am »
New generation crewed rocket (usually be called project 921 rocket) and heavy rocket (usually be called CZ-9) are currently in R/D 

So the 921 and the CZ-9 are two different rockets? Which one is supposed to be the crew launcher for lunar missions?

The correct name is CZ-5DY.
Maybe CZ-5U or CZ-9U is better.
Yes, but that's not what the Chinese are using.

Is CZ-5DY the correct name for the one also called CZ-9, or the "project 921"?

At this moment, project 921 rocket and CZ-5DY refer to the same vehicle, it is coming from Long LeHao's presentation at some universities mid 2021 (There are rumors for it in past 2 years)

But around 10 years ago. Long used CZ-5DY to describe another version of improved version of CZ-5 for moon landing.

Both 2010 version and 2021 version of CZ-5DY are sharing manufacturing facility (same diameter, same engine) with CZ-5, so it should be much easier to develop.

CZ-9 is SLS class heavy launcher which needs many new developments. (double tank diameter, 3 new engines etc.) So would come later.

Although Chinese government has not yet finally approved the project and given an official name (CZ-5DY is only a nomenclature used by Long, in CCTV they are been called Next gen. crewed rocket and next gen. heavy rocket) for both projects so there is still some chance of change.

Note: In Chinee style project management, R/D begin way earlier and project only be approved when major technical challenges been solved.

But currently, it seems CZ-5DY (project 921 rocket) will be the vehicle for early moon landing efforts and CZ-9 will be the one to build permanent moon station and eventually Mars mission.
« Last Edit: 12/30/2021 03:23 am by XRZ.YZ »
XQCR LLYZ GYZH HZSZ

Offline tangdou8

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #705 on: 02/17/2022 11:40 pm »
Updates on the New Generation crew LV.
Single Core version for LEO mission would achieve 14t carrying capacity when recovering the first stage. The plan is to use tethered recovery method for recovering the first stage

Offline Asteroza

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #706 on: 02/18/2022 09:44 pm »
CALT is also going for a SS/SH analog (but the booster looks like a New Glenn...), limited to 20T LEO due to methalox gas generator engines?

https://spacenews.com/starship-lookalike-among-chinas-new-human-spaceflight-concepts/

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #707 on: 02/19/2022 12:51 am »
Updates on the New Generation crew LV.
Single Core version for LEO mission would achieve 14t carrying capacity when recovering the first stage. The plan is to use tethered recovery method for recovering the first stage
I actually like that better than the chopsticks.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline zzabur

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #708 on: 05/24/2022 10:52 am »
Long March 8R first stage landing leg deployment test
https://twitter.com/i/status/1529048906385874944

Offline MarsFlyer

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #709 on: 06/15/2022 09:13 pm »
It seems there's some solid progress on the CZ5-DY:
https://mobile.twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1517886026101915648/photo/1
« Last Edit: 06/15/2022 09:13 pm by MarsFlyer »

Offline limen4

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #710 on: 06/22/2022 05:51 pm »
On May 15, 2022 i-space successfully completed the full-process joint training of the Hyperbola-2 verification rocket  at the  Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center (https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzU5NjQwNzI1NA==&mid=2247489432&idx=1&sn=b38bbd222dd5f123923bbce5092b5125&chksm=fe627121c915f837def4750918535f792046378df53c8f3b68ab8a6f9998838107a7707055af&scene=132#wechat_redirect)

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #711 on: 06/22/2022 06:59 pm »
On May 15, 2022 i-space successfully completed the full-process joint training of the Hyperbola-2 verification rocket  at the  Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center (https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzU5NjQwNzI1NA==&mid=2247489432&idx=1&sn=b38bbd222dd5f123923bbce5092b5125&chksm=fe627121c915f837def4750918535f792046378df53c8f3b68ab8a6f9998838107a7707055af&scene=132#wechat_redirect)
Says Shuangquxian-2Z/Hyperbola-2Z which is a suborbital verification rocket.

Offline su27k

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #712 on: 07/13/2022 02:21 pm »
https://mobile.twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1546783064306507776

Quote
2 series of reusables with methalox engines.
1: Diameter 5m, first time been seen?
2: Diameter 10.6m, 3-stage Long March 9 and a 2-stage variant. Mass: 4122t; Thrust: 5200t with 26 200t Raptor-like engines; LTO: 50t; LEO: 150t



China could shift to fully reusable super heavy-launcher in wake of Starship

Quote from: SpaceNews
China’s launch vehicle makers appear to be designing a fully reusable version of the Long March 9 super heavy-lift rocket needed for future megaprojects.

The emergence of plans for new reusable methane-liquid oxygen launch vehicles to be ready for 2035 suggests that China is looking to make significant changes to its space transportation plans.

China’s government last year signaled approval for the continued development of a super heavy-lift launcher, known as the Long March 9. The long-planned, expendable launcher is planned to be operational by 2030, in time to facilitate Chinese megaprojects including the International Lunar Research Station.



https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1550467553339838466

Quote
Interesting. Smart move by China. Expendable rockets have no future.
« Last Edit: 07/22/2022 01:18 pm by su27k »

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #713 on: 07/14/2022 07:49 am »
Here's a rough OCR translation.
 
Three Chapters O Major Projects and Prospects of China's Aerospace Industry

Development of a new type of heavy human female secondary fire storage:

Look at 05, 10m Shan Shi Lie, liquid oxygen before 2035 /
The methane-level tuijin chung-nu second used fire to have a service.

LEO0 5-150t, SS0 4-11t,

GT0 7 a 65t, LT0 501to

CZ-9 is a bang-level tandem, can be heavy daughter, environmentally friendly,
Available full 10. 6m, upper L=110m, 6=1122t, P
=5200t。 Level 1 26 x X 2001 Push Visit Liquid Methane Oxide I!
, three levels, and three levels but the column peony 1 1 people platform 120t push bud a station
JHO rekindles the upper hair Xu Phase; LT0O 50ta color on 0 150to

And the package is more than the United States SLS, Star Aviation Yan month reporter is not small
Ginger distance.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline meekGee

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #714 on: 07/22/2022 01:23 pm »
That just made my morning.
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline Stimbergi

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #715 on: 07/22/2022 02:15 pm »
Quote
2 series of reusables with methalox engines.
1: Diameter 5m, first time been seen?
2: Diameter 10.6m, 3-stage Long March 9 and a 2-stage variant. Mass: 4122t; Thrust: 5200t with 26 200t Raptor-like engines; LTO: 50t; LEO: 150t
From a presentation in April 2022:
Quote
A reusable design of the super heavy-lift Long March 9:
D11m 1st stage with 26 200-ton thrust LOX/Methane engines
D11m 2nd stage with 4 120-ton thrust LOX/LH2 engines
D7.5m 3rd stage with 1 120-ton thrust LOX/LH2 engine
Length: 111m
Mass: 4122 ton
LTO: 50t
LEO: 150t
https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1517866668210343936

Quote
The slide is from a presentation by Long Lehao, former chief designer of Long March rockets. Other designs of 2-stage reusable LOX/Methane rockets
https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1517868755245617152

Updated design:
Quote
Interestingly this slide explicitly states “(our design) is still at quite some distance away from @NASA_SLS
 & Starship’s”…
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1546674645717331968

Offline Lars-J

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #716 on: 07/28/2022 10:24 pm »
Carig Couvalt  (http://www.americaspace.com/?p=22881) suggests that China is looking at both RP-7 core/booster and LH2-core segmented SRB booster concepts for the CZ-9. I hope they look at our experience with the latter and come to their senses. Segmented SRB assembly and processing is a lot more difficult and expensive than it appears at first glance. Conversely, I would think at this point in time that a serious look at methane fuel for the core and boosters is warranted.

They are a little behind the trends sometimes, but it will come. They are most willing to follow successful strategies (or not so successful: SLS), so I have little doubt that CZ-9 will be re-jiggered to be a Methane powered LV when so much of the rest of the world is pursuing Methane powered LVs.

CZ-9 being rethought from scratch to ditch the SLS inspiration, and now has a monolithic reusable methane first stage? I called it 7 years ago... But of course it wasn't much of a stretch at the time either, to be fair.  :) Will China copy a successful strategy? Is water wet?  ;)

I'm excited to see what the next step in their reusability testing will be. We have already seen grid fins. When will landing attempts be made? And what are the odds we will see such attempts? (until they nail a landing that is)
« Last Edit: 07/28/2022 10:26 pm by Lars-J »

Offline MarsFlyer

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #717 on: 07/28/2022 11:10 pm »
It seems there's actual hardware being worked on for the Moon rocket CZ5-DY.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1552663035331809281/photo/1
« Last Edit: 07/28/2022 11:10 pm by MarsFlyer »

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #718 on: 07/29/2022 01:04 am »

Offline tangdou8

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #719 on: 07/29/2022 08:56 am »
Two stage single stick LEO version:
https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1517886593834516481


The board specifies 8*350t, so it should be core stage test for heavy lunar version

 

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