Author Topic: SpaceX Starship : Orbital - First Flight : Starbase, TX : NET April 2023  (Read 216446 times)

Offline Alberto-Girardi

Discussion thread for the Starship Orbital - First Flight mission.

NSF Threads for Starship Orbital - First Flight : Discussion

Starship Ship 24 and Superheavy Booster 7 from OLP at Starbase, TX.

https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1392915876643438592

Finally we know something!!!

Why they aren't going to attempt a landing on the pad?

Expecially for the raptors.

Is  possible that some agency denied a ground landing attempt for SH? IMO it is possible, because the flight profile will prove a complete RTLS?

Could, if they splash down softly, the SH and the SS be recovered and inspected? (obviusly salt water will prevent any reuse).

BTW, this is my 307th post. Thanks to everyone of this beautiful community!
« Last Edit: 03/16/2023 11:30 pm by Galactic Penguin SST »
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Offline Herb Schaltegger

As Iíve been telling anyone who will listen. They are going to willfully expend shiny new hardware until theyíre confident they wonít expend their shiny new GSE.
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Offline VaBlue

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This has the feel of just trying to get a grip on SH handing characteristics without endangering their shiny new launch platform and tower, located just next door to the landing pad.  Bringing it back within 20 miles and picking a spot to hit on the water will prove out models and characteristics quite well.  As for Starship, they're probably concerned about the TPS - if it allows partial damage, controlling the fall back to Earth could well be problematic.  Dump her in the ocean for piece of mind, you know she can land if everything else is good after a re-entry.

I like the plan, but do wish they could find a way to try to save some Raptors.  But, in the big scheme, these Raptors have already been written off in the name of forward testing...

Offline vaporcobra

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So... SpaceX has filed for an FCC STA for the first "Starship Orbital test flight", NET June 20th, 2021.

Quote
The Starship Orbital test flight will originate from Starbase, TX. The Booster stage will separate approximately 170 seconds into flight. The Booster will then perform a partial return and land in the Gulf of Mexico approximately 20 miles from the shore. The Orbital Starship will continue on flying between the Florida Straits. It will achieve orbit until performing a powered, targeted landing approximately 100km (~62 miles) off the northwest coast of Kauai in a soft ocean landing.

https://fcc.report/ELS/Space-Exploration-Technologies-Corp-SpaceX/0748-EX-ST-2021
« Last Edit: 05/13/2021 08:52 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline uhuznaa

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https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1392915876643438592

Finally we know something!!!

Why they aren't going to attempt a landing on the pad?

Expecially for the raptors.

Is  possible that some agency denied a ground landing attempt for SH? IMO it is possible, because the flight profile will prove a complete RTLS?

Could, if they splash down softly, the SH and the SS be recovered and inspected? (obviusly salt water will prevent any reuse).

BTW, this is my 307th post. Thanks to everyone of this beautiful community!

Main reason for the booster not returning will be that it has no legs to land on and the catching tower isn't ready. They also will want to test/demonstrate to have good enough control to nail a precise pad/tower landing. With the ship a landing on the pad would require it coming in over Mexico and Texas after one orbit which would be a bit much to risk on the first orbital flight...

They will to have either recover or scuttle both stages if they survive the splashdown, I guess. Recovery won't be easy though. There's also a very real chance of the ship not making it through all phases of reentry. In fact I would be surprised if it would.

"Objectives

SpaceX intends to collect as much data as possible during flight to quantify entry dynamics
and better understand what the vehicle experiences in a flight regime that is extremely
difficult to accurately predict or replicate computationally. This data will anchor any changes in vehicle design or CONOPs after the first flight and build better models for us to use in our internal simulations."


Offline Lars-J

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Very cool. What I find interesting is that the staging is later than anticipated, MECO seems to be about 20-30 seconds later than F9. Although it is possible that once the booster does a full boost-backs to the launch pad they will end up staging earlier.

Offline Alberto-Girardi

Is there any chanche to see SS flip, if it makes through reentry, via a non SpaceX camera?
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Online Coastal Ron

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As Iíve been telling anyone who will listen. They are going to willfully expend shiny new hardware until theyíre confident they wonít expend their shiny new GSE.

Can you expand this a little?

I'm assuming they are willing to expend the first SS/SH because they don't have an easy way to land them yet.

How are you thinking GSE fits into this? Concern about landing back at the pad at doing a RUD?
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Offline schuttle89

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Is there any chanche to see SS flip, if it makes through reentry, via a non SpaceX camera?

Almost certainly not so hopefully they'll broadcast it and it'll be a clear day.

Offline equiserre

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https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1392915876643438592

Finally we know something!!!

Why they aren't going to attempt a landing on the pad?

Expecially for the raptors.

Is  possible that some agency denied a ground landing attempt for SH? IMO it is possible, because the flight profile will prove a complete RTLS?

Could, if they splash down softly, the SH and the SS be recovered and inspected? (obviusly salt water will prevent any reuse).

BTW, this is my 307th post. Thanks to everyone of this beautiful community!

this is great!!
It is a pity to loose all those Raptors, but letīs remember that they still need to validate booster reentry without the reentry burn. They have good data on the rest of the booster flight profile, but this.

As for Starship, they have a lot of things to validate, so letīs be patient. They already did the powered landing thing!


Offline AndyH

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As Iíve been telling anyone who will listen. They are going to willfully expend shiny new hardware until theyíre confident they wonít expend their shiny new GSE.

Can you expand this a little?

I'm assuming they are willing to expend the first SS/SH because they don't have an easy way to land them yet.

How are you thinking GSE fits into this? Concern about landing back at the pad at doing a RUD?
It's the same pattern Spacex used with Falcon 9, and even then there was drone ship damage in the early years. 

ETA:

« Last Edit: 05/13/2021 07:58 pm by AndyH »

Offline DavP

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Sorry, I'm a bit newbie at this. Who has make this plan? What is the FCC?

Anyway, great news to see some information about this test. Let's if it occurs in July but I don't think so
« Last Edit: 05/13/2021 08:12 pm by DavP »

Offline snotis

Discussion thread for the Starship Orbital - First Flight mission.

NSF Threads for Starship Orbital - First Flight : Discussion

NET July 2021 using Starship SN20 and Superheavy BN3 from OLP at Starbase, TX.

FCC documents:
Starship Orbital - First Flight FCC Exhibit

Quote
Flight Profile

The Starship Orbital test flight will originate from Starbase, TX. The Booster stage will separate
approximately 170 seconds into flight. The Booster will then perform a partial return and land in the
Gulf of Mexico approximately 20 miles from the shore. The Orbital Starship will continue on flying
between the Florida Straits. It will achieve orbit until performing a powered, targeted landing
approximately 100km (~62 miles) off the northwest coast of Kauai in a soft ocean landing.

Quote
Event Timelines

EventT+ time (seconds)
Liftoff0
MECO169
Stage Separation171
SES176
Booster Touchdown495
SECO521
Ship Splashdown5420

Quote
Objectives

SpaceX intends to collect as much data as possible during flight to quantify entry dynamics
and better understand what the vehicle experiences in a flight regime that is extremely difficult
to accurately predict or replicate computationally. This data will anchor any changes in vehicle
design or CONOPs after the first flight and build better models for us to use in our internal
simulations
« Last Edit: 05/13/2021 08:34 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline capoman

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Very cool. What I find interesting is that the staging is later than anticipated, MECO seems to be about 20-30 seconds later than F9. Although it is possible that once the booster does a full boost-backs to the launch pad they will end up staging earlier.

Agreed, I think the late MECO will be due to having a minimal amount of Raptors on SH, and is a good thing since they intend expend. They obviously don't have or don't plan to use legs on it, or they might consider having it attempt to land on  drone ship. If they are going to try to catch without testing on legs on early versions, that's pretty bold. Makes you wonder how many they will be willing to throw away... They should get good data on precision landing though, even over water. Might also act as a demo for FAA approval to land as well.

Online meekGee

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So... SpaceX has filed for an FCC STA for the first "Starship Orbital test flight", NET June 20th, 2021.

Quote
The Starship Orbital test flight will originate from Starbase, TX. The Booster stage will separate approximately 170 seconds into flight. The Booster will then perform a partial return and land in the Gulf of Mexico approximately 20 miles from the shore. The Orbital Starship will continue on flying between the Florida Straits. It will achieve orbit until performing a powered, targeted landing approximately 100km (~62 miles) off the northwest coast of Kauai in a soft ocean landing.

https://fcc.report/ELS/Space-Exploration-Technologies-Corp-SpaceX/0748-EX-ST-2021


... leaving very little time for #16 and #17...   and if #15 flies again, even more so.   So clearly some adjustments are forthcoming...
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Offline ugordan

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It is a pity to loose all those Raptors, but letīs remember that they still need to validate booster reentry without the reentry burn. They have good data on the rest of the booster flight profile, but this.

I mean, it's not like the whole stack successfully getting to staging is a slam dunk IMHO.

Expecting the first launch to sail through all the way to booster reentry is a tall order. This isn't a campaign like the F9 development one was. There are no extended static tests of an integrated booster propulsion unit (with however many Raptors they're planning to fit on it) planned or even possible. There's a real chance the whole flight goes the way of an N1 so already worrying about dunking perfectly good Raptors into the drink is maybe a tad premature?

Offline wannamoonbase

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This is insanely exciting.  Itís very real now. 

That orbital launch mount and heat shield facility in FL are going to be so important now. 

Itís full speed ahead now, but if it happens anytime before the end of the year itís an incredible accomplishment.
« Last Edit: 05/13/2021 08:34 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »
Superheavy + Starship the final push to launch commit!

Online kevinof

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It is a pity to loose all those Raptors, but let´s remember that they still need to validate booster reentry without the reentry burn. They have good data on the rest of the booster flight profile, but this.

I mean, it's not like the whole stack successfully getting to staging is a slam dunk IMHO.

Expecting the first launch to sail through all the way to booster reentry is a tall order. This isn't a campaign like the F9 development one was. There are no extended static tests of an integrated booster propulsion unit (with however many Raptors they're planning to fit on it) planned or even possible. There's a real chance the whole flight goes the way of an N1 so already worrying about dunking perfectly good Raptors into the drink is maybe a tad premature?
Inclined to agree. This is aggressive which is not unusual for SpaceX. I’ll be happy it reaches and completes staging. Everything else is gravy.
« Last Edit: 05/13/2021 08:21 pm by kevinof »

Quote
Who has make this plan? What is the FCC?

The FCC is the Federal Communications Commission, and SpaceX has to get permission to use their telemetry channels every time a prototype rocket is launched.  Eventually they get license to use the channels when the rocket moves from the experimental stage and becomes fully functional rocket.
I watched in person the very first shuttle landing (Enterprise) and watched the very last shuttle launch (Atlantis).  I am a Space Nerd through and through.

Online meekGee

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It is a pity to loose all those Raptors, but letīs remember that they still need to validate booster reentry without the reentry burn. They have good data on the rest of the booster flight profile, but this.

I mean, it's not like the whole stack successfully getting to staging is a slam dunk IMHO.

Expecting the first launch to sail through all the way to booster reentry is a tall order. This isn't a campaign like the F9 development one was. There are no extended static tests of an integrated booster propulsion unit (with however many Raptors they're planning to fit on it) planned or even possible. There's a real chance the whole flight goes the way of an N1 so already worrying about dunking perfectly good Raptors into the drink is maybe a tad premature?

I don't see why if there's a chance it will explode on ascent then they shouldn't worry about the case where it doesn't...

F9 and FH first flights didn't fail on ascent, right?  How about older EELVs?  Saturn?  STS?
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