SpaceX Vehicles and Missions > SpaceX Reusability
SpaceX customers' views on reuse
FutureSpaceTourist:
I don't think we have a thread on different SpaceX customers' (and potential customers) views on reuse?
Obviously SES have been very supportive and publicly vocal in that support for some time. NASA too, although less vocally?
SpaceX plan/hope to reuse more and more boosters, but not clear who for (beyond SES and FH demo). Let's capture others views (pro or anti) in this thread.
Here's one to kick things off:
--- Quote ---Gen. Raymond, head of Space Command, praises SpaceX's use of AFSS and says USAF would be comfortable flying on reused Falcon rocket. #33SS
--- End quote ---
https://twitter.com/flatoday_jdean/status/850034744087777280
Edit Dec 1, 2017:
Here’s an attempt to summarise customer views on reuse over time, plus dates of reuse launches. Corrections/additions welcome in this thread or by DM.
Key
Green 1st reuse launch by listed customer
Purple 2nd or subsequent reuse by listed customer
UTC Date CustomerEvent2015/06/17SESM. Halliwell says SES want to reuse F9 booster2016/05/24USAFClaire Leon: could be long time before govt agrees reuse for NatSec payload2016/08/30SES1st booster reuse agreement announced (SES-10)2017/01NASANASA & SpaceX start working on booster reuse (not known publicly)2017/03/15USAFClaire Leon: no plans for reuse, might consider in future2017/03/30SESSES-10 GTO launch: 1st F9 booster reuse2017/03/30SESM Halliwell@post SES-10 launch press conf: 2 other SES 2017 launches likely to reuse2017/03/30SpaceXElon confirms FH demo booster reuse @ post SES-10 launch press conference2017/04/06USAFGen Raymond (Head of Space Command) says USAF would be comfortable with reuse2017/04/11NASAD Hartmann (Dep Mngr ISS Program): discussing reuse; may not be 2017, shortly after2017/05/05BulsatcomAnnouncement that BulgariaSat-1 will launch on a reused booster 2017/05/15InmarsatCEO post I-5 F4 launch: look fwd to future reuse once reuse more proven2017/06/15IridiumMatt Desch says Iridium would reuse in 2018 (for big discount/schedule improvement)2017/06/15SpaceXVP Sales Hofeller says many customers interested in converting to flown stages2017/06/22HASCHouse Armed Services Committee endorses RLV use by govt (AF, DOD)2017/06/23BulsatcomBulgariaSat-1 GTO launch: 2nd F9 booster reuse2017/07/15IntelsatPost Intelsat 35e launch, VP Ken Lee says will definitely consider reuse in future2017/08/04SESReuse of booster for SES-11 launch confirmed2017/09/21USAFGen Raymond: need review to make sure reuse safe, then all in for reuse2017/10/11SESSES-11 GTO launch: 3rd F9 booster reuse2017/10/12SESFirst explicit mention that SES-16 launch may reuse booster2017/10/16USAFGen Raymond: “absolutely foolish” not to begin using pre-flown rockets2017/10/18SpacecomBooster reuse for AMOS-17 launch announced2017/10/19IridiumAnnouncement that Iridium NEXT 4 & 5 flights will reuse boosters2017/10/24NASA1st press report that NASA will reuse booster on next CRS flights2017/11/29NASAGerst makes official long-rumoured booster reuse for CRS-132017/12/15NASACRS-13 LEO launch: 4th F9 booster reuse2017/12/15MDAAnnouncement of F9 reuse for RADARSAT constellation2017/12/22HisdesatAnnouncement of F9 reuse for PAZ launch2017/12/23IridiumIridium NEXT 4 LEO launch: 5th F9 booster reuse2018/01/11SESConfirmation of SES-16 on flight-proven booster2018/01/31SESSES-16/GovSat1 LEO launch: 6th F9 booster reuse2018/02/01-WIRED claims 50% of 2018 manifest of 30 flights will reuse boosters2018/02/06SpaceXFH demo BEO launch: 7th & 8th F9 booster reuse2018/02/1?-Gwynne Shotwell confirms around half of 2018 manifest will reuse boosters2018/02/22HisdesatPAZ LEO launch: 9th F9 booster reuse2018/03/14DigitalGlobeAnnouncement of 2 DigitialGlobe LEO flights for 2021 re-using boosters2018/03/16NASAPublic confirmation of booster reuse for CRS-142018/03/21IridiumConfirmation that Iridium NEXT 6 flight will reuse booster2018/03/30IridiumIridium NEXT 5 LEO launch: 10th F9 booster reuse2018/04/02NASACRS-14 LEO launch: 11th F9 booster reuse2018/04/05SESConfirmation of SES-12 on flight-proven booster2018/04/15NASASpaceX says plan to reuse TESS booster for CRS-15 (if NASA approves)2018/05/22Iridium/NASAIridium NEXT 6/GRACE-FO LEO launch: 12th F9 booster reuse2018/06/04SESSES-12 GTO launch: 13th F9 booster reuse2018/06/29NASACRS-15 LEO launch: 14th F9 booster reuse (last non-block 5 orbital launch)2018/08/01CONAENSF publishes that only recently agreed SAOCOM 1A launch will use booster 1048.22018/08/02PerseroMerah Putih launch static fire shows 1st flight-proven block 5 booster2018/08/07PerseroMerah Putih GTO launch: 15th F9 booster reuse, 1st with block 52018/10/03SpaceflightHans Koenigsmann: possible SSO-A launch first to use a booster for 3rd time2018/10/07CONAESAOCOM 1A SSO launch: 16th F9 booster reuse, 1st VAFB landing2018/10/18IridiumMatt Desch (Iridium CEO) confirms booster reuse (1049.2) for Iridium 8 launch2018/11/15SpaceflightSpaceX confirms Spaceflight SSO-A launch 1st to use booster (1046) for 3rd time2018/11/15Es’hailSatEs’hail-2 GTO launch: 17th F9 booster reuse2018/12/03SpaceflightSSO-A SSO launch: 18th F9 booster reuse & 1st booster to fly 3 times2018/12/18USAFNASA director says USAF STP-2 FH mission to reuse boosters2019/01/11IridiumIridium NEXT 8 LEO launch: 19th F9 booster reuse2019/02/22PSN/SpaceILNusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL GTO launch: 20th F9 booster reuse2019/05/23SpaceXStarlink 1 LEO launch: 21st F9 booster reuse2019/06/12MDARCM RADARSAT Constellation SSO launch: 22nd F9 booster reuse2019/06/24USAFFH STP-2 MEO launch: 23rd & 24th F9 booster reuse2019/07/25NASACRS-18 LEO launch: 25th F9 booster reuse 2019/08/06SpacecomAMOS-17 GTO launch: 26th F9 booster reuse2019/11/11SpaceXStarlink 2 (v1.0 L1) LEO launch: 1st fairing reuse & 1st booster (1048) to fly 4 times2019/12/17JSAT/KacificJCSAT-18/Kacific-1 launch: 28th F9 booster reuse2020/01/06SpaceXStarlink 3 (v1.0 L2) LEO launch: 29th booster reuse2020/01/19 SpaceX Dragon 2 CCiCAP in-flight abort SUB launch: 30th booster reuse 2020/01/29SpaceXStarlink 4 (v1.0 L3) LEO launch: 31st booster reuse2020/02/17SpaceXStarlink 5 (v1.0 L4) LEO launch: 32nd booster reuse2020/03/07NASACRS-20 LEO launch: final Dragon 1 launch, 33rd booster reuse & 50th successful landingPlanned: 2020/03/15SpaceXStarlink 6 (v1.0 L5) LEO launch: 2nd fairing reuse & 1st booster (1048) to fly 5 times2021 DigitalGlobe First SpaceX WorldView satellite LEO launch 2021 DigitalGlobe Second SpaceX WorldView satellite LEO launch
FutureSpaceTourist:
Slightly varying reports of what the Gen said:
--- Quote ---Gen Jay Raymond, head of Air Force Space Command, says he's "open" to using previously flown rockets for launches of military assets. #33SS
--- End quote ---
https://twitter.com/pfswarts/status/850038411910148100
--- Quote ---Gen Raymond says he's ready to fly a military payload on a used booster. #SpaceSymposium #33ss
--- End quote ---
https://twitter.com/pat_defdaily/status/850034233477394432
FutureSpaceTourist:
Here's a write-up by Irene Klotz of the general's remarks:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-spacex-military-idUSKBN1782ZS
--- Quote ---"I would be comfortable if we were to fly on a reused booster,” General John "Jay" Raymond told reporters at the U.S. Space Symposium in Colorado Springs. “They’ve proven they can do it. ... It’s going to get us to lower cost.”
--- End quote ---
deruch:
Cross posting from the GPS-IIIA-3 thread with quoted comments post that award announcement. I don't believe that Ms. Leon's comments (reported 2017-03-15) are substantially different from Gen. Raymond's (reported 2017-04-06) in the previous post. Her's highlight the work still to be done before the AF would actually buy a launch using a pre-flown core while the General's are more big picture about their general willingness to consider doing so.
--- Quote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 03/16/2017 11:57 am ---SpaceNews has a follow-up article on this contract award.
You won't be suprised to know that SpaceX won on price, but this quote is interesting on AF's view of re-use:
--- Quote ---Meanwhile, [Claire] Leon said that the Air Force has no plans to fly payloads on Falcon 9 rockets with previously-flown first stages. The service has specifically requested SpaceX not to fly re-used hardware.
“We would have to certify flight hardware that had been used which is more qualification, more analysis, so we’re not taking that on quite yet,” she said. “If it proves to be successful for commercial, we might consider that in the future.”
--- End quote ---
http://spacenews.com/spacexs-low-cost-won-gps-3-launch-air-force-says/
Claire Leon is the launch enterprise director for the Air Force Space and Missile Systems Center
--- End quote ---
Hotblack Desiato:
--- Quote from: deruch on 04/09/2017 02:05 am ---Cross posting from the GPS-IIIA-3 thread with quoted comments post that award announcement. I don't believe that Ms. Leon's comments (reported 2017-03-15) are substantially different from Gen. Raymond's (reported 2017-04-06) in the previous post. Her's highlight the work still to be done before the AF would actually buy a launch using a pre-flown core while the General's are more big picture about their general willingness to consider doing so.
--- Quote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 03/16/2017 11:57 am ---SpaceNews has a follow-up article on this contract award.
You won't be suprised to know that SpaceX won on price, but this quote is interesting on AF's view of re-use:
--- Quote ---Meanwhile, [Claire] Leon said that the Air Force has no plans to fly payloads on Falcon 9 rockets with previously-flown first stages. The service has specifically requested SpaceX not to fly re-used hardware.
“We would have to certify flight hardware that had been used which is more qualification, more analysis, so we’re not taking that on quite yet,” she said. “If it proves to be successful for commercial, we might consider that in the future.”
--- End quote ---
http://spacenews.com/spacexs-low-cost-won-gps-3-launch-air-force-says/
Claire Leon is the launch enterprise director for the Air Force Space and Missile Systems Center
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
Economically, that is the (second)best case vor SpaceX: a customer who demands new rockets and who is willing to pay the price of those. This adds fresh rocket-stages to the pool of available rockets without having to worry about when the rockets will amortise their construction costs (the actuall best case is NASA, who is willing to pay the price-tag of the new rockets without actually demanding that they need to be pristine).
The worst case scenario would be customers, who demand the reused rockets so much, that none of them is willing to pay the fee for a fresh rocket (Similar to airplanes, where the first flight of a plane isn't ridiculously expensive just to cover the production costs).
I think, as soon as a few reused flights happened successfully, most private customers will be happy to use already used rockets, it lowers the launch price.
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