Author Topic: Early 1960's Convair concept for a Saturn-like rocket? (Read 13497 times)

Proponent · « **on:** 12/17/2018 10:30 pm »

The attached image comes from Erik Bergaust's 1962 children's book Rocket Power. At first glance, I thought it was some sort of early advanced Saturn concept, the two 400,000-lb thrust "outboard" engines possibly being of the E-1 type that von Braun originally intended to use on what became the Saturn I. But then I noticed the credit to Convair, manufacturer of the original Atlas. And, come to think of it, it does look like an Atlas. On the other hand, the nozzle-exit diameter of the F-1 being about 12 feet, the diameter of the rocket is more like that of the Saturn I than the Atlas.

Does anyone have any more information about this concept?

QuantumG · « **Reply #1 on:** 12/17/2018 11:21 pm »

I vaguely remember seeing something similar in the Atlas book, or the Centaur book. Had a quick look, but couldn't find it.

Generic Username · « **Reply #2 on:** 12/18/2018 09:31 am »

Quote from: Proponent on 12/17/2018 10:30 pm

And, come to think of it, it does look like an Atlas. On the other hand, the nozzle-exit diameter of the F-1 being about 12 feet, the diameter of the rocket is more like that of the Saturn I than the Atlas.

Difficulty: the little spaceplane/landing boat at the top was originally designed specifically to fit on the Atlas, so it is presumably the same size, with the proto-Centaur upper stage being ten feet in diameter.

Proponent · « **Reply #3 on:** 12/18/2018 10:44 am »

Quote from: Generic Username on 12/18/2018 09:31 am

Difficulty: the little spaceplane/landing boat at the top was originally designed specifically to fit on the Atlas, so it is presumably the same size, with the proto-Centaur upper stage being ten feet in diameter.

That's a good argument in favor of this being a re-engined Atlas. But wouldn't it be drastically over-powered? Take-off thrust would have been a multiple of the Atlas D's.

I now suspect that the figure caption is wrong in describing the main engine as an F-1. Perhaps the first stage is an Atlas with upgraded engines and likely without the dropable booster section.

Generic Username · « **Reply #4 on:** 12/18/2018 05:07 pm »

Quote from: Proponent on 12/18/2018 10:44 am

I now suspect that the figure caption is wrong in describing the main engine as an F-1.

It is wrong. The center engine is, seemingly, an S-3D, the engine used on the Thor & Jupiter and sort of the early, overly complex version of the H-1. You can tell because of the turbine exhaust tube running alongside the bell, something the F-1 didn't have.

Michel Van · « **Reply #5 on:** 12/18/2018 07:12 pm »

The Payload are two Lifting bodies by Dr. Krafft A. Ehricke
had to be launch by Atlas into orbit
That means this Launch rocket has diameter of 3 meter or 10 ft.
This would match with S-3D engine in first stage

Generic Username · « **Reply #6 on:** 12/18/2018 07:28 pm »

Quote from: Michel Van on 12/18/2018 07:12 pm

That means this Launch rocket has diameter of 3 meter or 10 ft.

Maybe 12 feet. Notice that there is a *slight* increase in diameter from the third stage to the booster. The two-stage booster rocket is pretty much entirely different from the Atlas... new engines, new shorter tanks, different innards. So they might as well increase diameter a little.