Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : GovSat-1 (SES-16) : Jan 31. 2018 - Discussion  (Read 207739 times)

Offline darkenfast

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All joking aside (and it really is kind of funny), they'd probably be best off sinking it in deep water.  It won't tow well, (because it's not a solid-fuel booster that was a lot stronger), they don't have the right kind of equipment and personnel out there, and the Port probably won't want them bringing it back in in that condition.
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Offline Kabloona

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All joking aside (and it really is kind of funny), they'd probably be best off sinking it in deep water.  It won't tow well, (because it's not a solid-fuel booster that was a lot stronger), they don't have the right kind of equipment and personnel out there, and the Port probably won't want them bringing it back in in that condition.

Right about now Elon's probably hoping it will sink on its own and save them the trouble. Problem was, they couldn't just leave it floating there.

Offline Razvan

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This is a clear mission failure! The booster was to be thrown away and not towed back.  ???
In case they manage to get enough missions in the future they'll need another drone ship.
Why not a carrier (one that is going to be scraped). They can land the booster, one by one and lower them under the deck, refurbish, refuel and hop'em up to LZ.

If you're going to go through the trouble of procuring a carrier (I assume you meant aircraft carrier), why not just launch from the flight deck too? The logistics are similar to the usual kind of aircraft carrier. You need a log train to bring in fuel and new ordinance payloads, remove waste, and swap personnel out.

Did we just build a space navy?
In the name of the United States Space Navy I christen thee Poseidon 1...
« Last Edit: 02/01/2018 04:09 am by Razvan »

Offline Asteroza

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Nosferocket 👻

Survival aside, they were testing a new high speed 3 burn landing technique. Instead of a hoverslam landing, we got a


(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

SuperSlam!

Yeah...

Offline JonathanD

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THE BOOSTER THAT WOULD NOT DIE.

Love it.

Offline Lar

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We do have a party thread for some of the more off the wall comments.  I move stuff but I get tired, and I think I sprained my finger. So maybe use it?
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Offline jpo234

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All joking aside (and it really is kind of funny), they'd probably be best off sinking it in deep water.  It won't tow well, (because it's not a solid-fuel booster that was a lot stronger), they don't have the right kind of equipment and personnel out there, and the Port probably won't want them bringing it back in in that condition.

Right about now Elon's probably hoping it will sink on its own and save them the trouble. Problem was, they couldn't just leave it floating there.
Because of ITAR?
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Offline daveklingler

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This is a clear mission failure! The booster was to be thrown away and not towed back.  ???
In case they manage to get enough missions in the future they'll need another drone ship.
Why not a carrier (one that is going to be scraped). They can land the booster, one by one and lower them under the deck, refurbish, refuel and hop'em up to LZ.

If you're going to go through the trouble of procuring a carrier (I assume you meant aircraft carrier), why not just launch from the flight deck too? The logistics are similar to the usual kind of aircraft carrier. You need a log train to bring in fuel and new ordinance payloads, remove waste, and swap personnel out.

Did we just build a space navy?
In the name of the United States Space Navy I christen thee Poseidon 1...

I think you mean "Sea Dragon".

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Wait! The booster survived splash-down more-or-less intact?!? What do they make those things out of, adamantium-vibranium alloy?

I doubt that B1032 will ever fly again but I suspect several engineers at Hawthorne are already salivating at the prospect of seeing how the engine bells and fuel system survived water contact!
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Offline zodiacchris

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It’s 300 odd miles out at sea and the only thing keeping it intact is the internal pressure left in the tanks, like an unopened Soft drink can. I don’t think it stands a chance, once that pressure leaks out the thin walls will be crushed, even without trying to tow that thing with the landing gear drag anchors. Shame, as it is the first rocket we know off that has survived an ocean landing... :-\


Offline ppb

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I'm wondering if it's a case of velocity > 0 when it hit the water, thus sinking further down before rotating to horizontal?
This is the best theory I've heard for the stage surviving. So the 3 engine landing burn maybe didn't decelerate perfectly, but the bigger dunk in the water cushioned the tipover.

Offline John Alan

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I agree... I think trying to retrieve it intact will not end well..
Once the stage looses internal pressure, a good wave will likely sink it...
I will be surprised if it's still afloat at sun-up... :-\

That said...
I have to guess that GO Quest has a certified diver or two on board and their equipment...
You would think they would... as it supports OCISLY operations...

Job one, would be retrieve any data cards that can be accessed... hopefully already done...
Job two would be get several lines on the sturdy OctoWeb and the stern of the boat..
Job three is wait for GO Searcher to arrive in support and maybe to act as tow boat...

If it sinks, it's not that heavy, and the lines over the stern may hold till a new plan is decided or abandoned...

If there Is a choice to make... It's about GO Searcher and FH fairing recovery...
Which is worth more to SpaceX... B1032 on a line or the fairings from FH?



Offline vanoord

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My suspicion would be that for whatever reason, it didn’t tip on landing and instead part-submerged vertically first - and that prevented it disassembling.

Shouldn’t be a massive job to tow it back, but the tow would have to be long enough to prevent damage to the towing vessel if the stage goes boom.

Wouldn’t be surprised if another vessel is chartered to bring it back to free up whichever Go twin is towing it.

Then there’s the issue of getting a port to agree to having it towed in...
« Last Edit: 02/01/2018 08:18 am by vanoord »

Offline toruonu

So... anyone got any of those TLE-s? Tried registering to space-track.org, but the confirmation e-mail hasn't arrived yet...

Offline cuddihy

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Uhhh... wouldn’t the simplest idea just be to have the drone ship go out to salvage it? Quick turnaround to FH launch, but should be doable with favorable seas and not having any landing damage to clean up.

Offline speedevil

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In principle, you could start with the stage as sideways as the fins will make it go, at the highest velocity horizontally, and then just before impact, thrust to cancel the horizontal velocity and at the same time kill the remaining vertical velocity, to end up with the stage motionless with respect to the ocean, and a few degrees from the horizontal.

This would have really, really high aero drag coming into landing, saving on fuel, and be able to greatly reduce the elevation of the top of the stage after landing.
The extended legs would also add drag, before engine light, partially countering the engines weight and allowing a steeper inclination on fins alone.

It would also allow landing on a much smaller boat, with a net, like Mr Steven.

I would be astonished if this was what they actually did.

Offline eeergo

IMO the most likely explanation for the stage surviving tip-down, apart from the sea state (which is probably the leading factor), is the presence of deployed legs.

It could have landed as it did in other splashdowns, but in those occasions the stage was free to tip over, acquiring a modest angular velocity, which slammed the pressurized, weaker LOX tanks against the sea surface quite forcefully.

In this case though, at least two of the legs, and up to three, will have made for large drag brakes against the water as soon as they were submerged, in the direction they are designed to withstand loads (vertically upward), and at approximately the pivot point (the engine section).

This means the angular velocity will have been maintained at a quite slow value while the stage tipped over, resulting in little-to-no water slamming (and giving more time to depressurize the tanks).
-DaviD-

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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They have two ships out there; could one rope the Octoweb and the other the top of the LOX tank so that the stage can be supported between them (or at least kept afloat if the tanks finally crumple and breach)?
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DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline toruonu

In this case though, at least two of the legs, and up to three, will have made for large drag brakes against the water as soon as they were submerged, in the direction they are designed to withstand loads (vertically upward), and at approximately the pivot point (the engine section).

This means the angular velocity will have been maintained at a quite slow value while the stage tipped over, resulting in little-to-no water slamming (and giving more time to depressurize the tanks).

I remember that the stage that broke a leg was kept upright for quite a while by the thrusters at the top of the stage because three legs could balance against it. But in water that thruster would effectively reduce the angular speed and might in combination with the drag from legs indeed provide slow enough tipover.

Online uhuznaa

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All joking aside (and it really is kind of funny), they'd probably be best off sinking it in deep water.  It won't tow well, (because it's not a solid-fuel booster that was a lot stronger), they don't have the right kind of equipment and personnel out there, and the Port probably won't want them bringing it back in in that condition.

Right about now Elon's probably hoping it will sink on its own and save them the trouble. Problem was, they couldn't just leave it floating there.

Just fire a few shots at the tanks from a safe distance to make sure they aren't pressurized anymore, then run it over with the ship in the middle. Drag on board whatever is still floating then.

I agree that trying to tow it is not worth the time and effort and would be just a complex way to sink it sooner or later anyway.

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