Author Topic: PWR RL-60  (Read 8676 times)

Offline Lurker Steve

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PWR RL-60
« on: 06/15/2012 03:48 pm »
I'm been thinking about what project I would like PWR to finish next, and I saw that the RL-60 has been sitting on the shelf, unfinished for almost a decade.

What killed / shelved this program ? Was it lack of funding, no customers for the engine, failure / dis-interest of their international partners ?

If they restarted the program, would those international partners still be on-board ? Ie, LOX turbo pump from Russia, LH2 turbo pump from Japan, regen nozzle from Volvo, etc.

How much cheaper could a newer design like the RL-60 be built compared to the RL-10, given the current manufacturing volumes ?

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: PWR RL-60
« Reply #1 on: 06/15/2012 04:16 pm »
I'm not sure but didn't Mitsubushi Heavy move to production of this engine under the name "MB-60"?
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Offline Prober

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Re: PWR RL-60
« Reply #2 on: 06/15/2012 05:09 pm »
I'm not sure but didn't Mitsubushi Heavy move to production of this engine under the name "MB-60"?

I was on the Mitsubushi web site some time ago and this engine was up on there as one of their products.

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Offline Damon Hill

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Re: PWR RL-60
« Reply #3 on: 07/31/2012 04:59 am »
Mitsubshi/Boeing/Rocketdyne were working on the MB-XX program to develop a new family of expander cycle cryo engines.  Of the two, only the MB-35 was ever tested and was never put into production.

RL60 was an entirely different P&W program with international partners; a prototype engine was demonstrated at full thrust.  I think it was a dual-expander with a copper alloy tube combustion chamber to improve heat transfer for the higher thrust.

I'm guessing there was no demand for a 60klb/f engine; upper stage would need to be strengthened though it would increase LEO payload.  Four or five of them would make for a nice J-2X substitute, I think.

Note: SNECMA is developing the 40klb/f Vinci dual-expander cycle engine for an uprated Ariane V.

Offline Jim

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Re: PWR RL-60
« Reply #4 on: 07/31/2012 11:21 am »
No business case

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: PWR RL-60
« Reply #5 on: 07/31/2012 12:50 pm »
No business case

Really?

Well I imagine that with an MPS required for the second-generation CPS and the DoD NGE requirement, there is now plenty of reasons to at least look at the proposal again.  RL-60 has about twice the thrust of the proposed NGE spec and comparable Isp.  I also understand that it was meant to be compatable with the existing EELV upper stages.
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Offline WHAP

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Re: PWR RL-60
« Reply #6 on: 07/31/2012 08:18 pm »
No business case

Really?

Well I imagine that with an MPS required for the second-generation CPS and the DoD NGE requirement, there is now plenty of reasons to at least look at the proposal again.  RL-60 has about twice the thrust of the proposed NGE spec and comparable Isp.  I also understand that it was meant to be compatable with the existing EELV upper stages.

Just because it has twice the thrust of the NGE spec doesn't mean it meets the requirements for EELV missions, especially for the current stages.  And the term "compatible" is pretty broad.  You can't bolt an RL-60 on in place of an RL-10 without a lot of work, and that work costs money.  How much does an RL-60 cost relative to an RL-10?  If it's not cheaper, where's the business case for EELV?  With EELV off the table, does CPS really provide a business case for an RL-60?
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Online edkyle99

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Re: PWR RL-60
« Reply #7 on: 08/01/2012 12:02 am »

Just because it has twice the thrust of the NGE spec doesn't mean it meets the requirements for EELV missions, especially for the current stages. 

I always remember the saying "thrust costs money".  The goal for unmanned flight, then, is to use the least thrust necessary to perform the mission.

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« Last Edit: 08/01/2012 12:03 am by edkyle99 »

Offline Patchouli

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Re: PWR RL-60
« Reply #8 on: 08/01/2012 03:09 am »
CxP should have pick using fully US built version of the RL-60 as it makes a lot more since then the J-2X.

Yes it would not work on Ares I but licensing Vulcain 2 or using one of the EELVs as the CLV would have solved that mess.

Offline fregate

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Re: PWR RL-60
« Reply #9 on: 10/22/2012 11:48 am »
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