Author Topic: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan  (Read 736825 times)

Offline Llian Rhydderch

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #340 on: 10/23/2016 03:46 am »
The revenue model is key, here - Mr Bezos didn't build such a large fortune to see it dry up in a few years.

Money flow will be the lifeblood of this whole venture.

What will Blue Origin be offering that will bring in the big money customers to fund these big rockets and keep them flying?


Daily Amazon package delivery to near-Earth space.  8)

Logistics to support the people and machines at his space locations.
Re arguments from authority on NSF:  "no one is exempt from error, and errors of authority are usually the worst kind.  Taking your word for things without question is no different than a bracket design not being tested because the designer was an old hand."
"You would actually save yourself time and effort if you were to use evidence and logic to make your points instead of wrapping yourself in the royal mantle of authority.  The approach only works on sheep, not inquisitive, intelligent people."

Offline hkultala

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #341 on: 10/23/2016 06:37 am »

I think the first opertional launcher powered by a single BE-4 and a single BE-2 or BE-3U, will be Boeings XS-1 launch vehicle.

A BE-2 would be an interesting choice for an upper stage engine -- I'd been thinking of kerosene & peroxide (see attached chart) as more of a first-stage propellant combination, though Beal was planning to use it in all three stages.

"Interesting" is far from good. The isp is just very bad compared to BE-3U.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #342 on: 10/24/2016 11:00 pm »
...
"Interesting" is far from good. The isp is just very bad compared to BE-3U.
I agree BE-2 has a pore ISP compared to BE-3U. But it will cost much less.
In my view a BE-2 and a BE-3 (or lower thrust high ISP = LOxLH2) upper stage are complementary to each other.
A launcher with a BE-4 (reusable) first stage could have a take off weight of 200mT (~460k lb). With a BE-3U LOxLH2 upper-stage it could have a 3-5mT payload capability. With BE-2 the payload drops to 1-2.5mT but the launch cost will also drop a lot. For clarity, I didn't calculate any of this. I'm no rocket scientist, just a geek behind a PC.

Offline Patchouli

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #343 on: 10/25/2016 10:49 pm »
...
"Interesting" is far from good. The isp is just very bad compared to BE-3U.
I agree BE-2 has a pore ISP compared to BE-3U. But it will cost much less.
In my view a BE-2 and a BE-3 (or lower thrust high ISP = LOxLH2) upper stage are complementary to each other.
A launcher with a BE-4 (reusable) first stage could have a take off weight of 200mT (~460k lb). With a BE-3U LOxLH2 upper-stage it could have a 3-5mT payload capability. With BE-2 the payload drops to 1-2.5mT but the launch cost will also drop a lot. For clarity, I didn't calculate any of this. I'm no rocket scientist, just a geek behind a PC.

I do not know what the ISP of the BE-2 is off hand but the propellant combination is good for an ISP of around 320 seconds in a GG cycle engine with a vacuum nozzle.

A BE-2 with a nozzle for high altitude operation may not be that poor of a performing engine.
Maybe a slightly worse than the AJ-10-118K.
« Last Edit: 10/25/2016 11:06 pm by Patchouli »

Offline Prettz

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #344 on: 10/30/2016 05:01 am »
I do not know what the ISP of the BE-2 is off hand but the propellant combination is good for an ISP of around 320 seconds in a GG cycle engine with a vacuum nozzle.

A BE-2 with a nozzle for high altitude operation may not be that poor of a performing engine.
Maybe a slightly worse than the AJ-10-118K.
Can you give us the cost difference between a BE-2 vacuum and a BE-3 vacuum?
« Last Edit: 10/30/2016 05:02 am by Prettz »

Offline leaflion

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #346 on: 03/07/2017 12:31 pm »
Quote
Blue Origin has released a new video promoting the New Glenn rocket. It is like ... whoah.

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/839105757194960897

« Last Edit: 03/07/2017 12:33 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #347 on: 03/07/2017 12:38 pm »
Humm... preposterous! It has been proven by so many stout lads that not only is it impossible to land a rocket on a ship, but reusability simply makes no financial sense. When will this madness stop!
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #348 on: 03/07/2017 12:39 pm »
Great video, some similarities with another launch provider  :)

Was a bit mystified by the ship/ASDS? apparently moving forward as the booster comes in to land ... artistic licence?

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #349 on: 03/07/2017 12:40 pm »
Finally ...

Quote
Bezos: New Glenn 2-stage vehicle designed to carry 13 tonnes to GTO, 45 tonnes to LEO. #SATSHOW

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/839107584921481217

Offline Jim

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #350 on: 03/07/2017 12:40 pm »
Great video, some similarities with another launch provider  :)

Was a bit mystified by the ship/ASDS? apparently moving forward as the booster comes in to land ... artistic licence?

Blue had the ship idea before Spacex.   A moving ship is more stable.

Offline rpapo

Now we know why Blue Origin attempted the patent on landing on a ship.

[edit] Ninja'd by Jim.
« Last Edit: 03/07/2017 12:42 pm by rpapo »
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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #352 on: 03/07/2017 12:42 pm »
Quote
Bezos: booster stage designed for up to 100 reuses. Aerodynamic strakes for maneuvering for landing downrange. #SATSHOW

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/839108060928880640

Quote
Bezos: six landing legs; can land if one leg fails to deploy. #SATSHOW

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/839108248938528768

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #353 on: 03/07/2017 12:43 pm »
Quote
Bezos: announcing first customer for New Glenn: Eutelsat. #SATSHOW

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/839108636345393152

Edit to add:

Quote
Rodolphe Belmer, Eutelsat: we see our role to help stimulate competition; jumped on this opportunity. #SATSHOW

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/839109139221532673
« Last Edit: 03/07/2017 12:43 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline calapine

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #354 on: 03/07/2017 12:46 pm »
Quote
Bezos: announcing first customer for New Glenn: Eutelsat. #SATSHOW

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/839108636345393152

Edit to add:

Quote
Rodolphe Belmer, Eutelsat: we see our role to help stimulate competition; jumped on this opportunity. #SATSHOW

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/839109139221532673

Just wanted to link this.

I thought Blue Origin said to have greater goals than GTO satcoms. How does ULA feel now about financing the development of it's competitor's launcher (via BE-4).

(Aside from the fact this probably will hit Arianespace and SpaceX most...)
« Last Edit: 03/07/2017 12:55 pm by calapine »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #355 on: 03/07/2017 12:46 pm »
Quote
Bezos: started approaching customers a few months ago. Couldn’t ask for better partner than Eutelsat. #SATSHOW

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/839109568722456578

Quote
Eutelsat is 1st commercial telecom sat for Blue Origin New Glenn rocket. Eutelsat decides which sat 12 mnths before 2021 launch  #SATShow

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/839109826064035840

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #356 on: 03/07/2017 12:53 pm »
A moving ship is more stable.

Ok, but doesn't it complicate landing? If the booster is aiming for a fixed point then timing has to be pretty precise to make sure the ship is in the correct place. Alternatively might there be some comms between booster and ship?

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #357 on: 03/07/2017 01:00 pm »
Quote
Excited to announce we have signed our 1st #NewGlenn customer. Welcome to the launch manifest @Eutelsat_SA

https://twitter.com/jeffbezos/status/839112645957541890

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #358 on: 03/07/2017 01:04 pm »
Image from Blue Origin website, nice!

Offline Beittil

Pretty cool looking renders, really wish them well in their construction and testing programs the next couple of years!

Was also a bit puzzled by that moving ship in the animation, SpaceX doesn't seem to have much trouble keeping the ASDS stationary after all :P

 

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