Author Topic: HLS Option B and the Sustaining Lunar Development Phase (Appendix P)  (Read 192038 times)

Offline yg1968

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Some number and factoids from the announcement:
- NASA contract value is 'a little bit over $3.4B'.
- Blue Origin contributing 'more than 50%'. Their contribution is "well north of $3.4B".
- LOX/LH2 fueled lander
- Lander is single-stage and reusable
- Lander stays in NRHO; does not go back to LEO for refuelling. Instead...
- A transfer vehicle shuttles between LEO and NRHO. It is refuelled in LEO (so, there must be a tanker or depot in LEO) and then moves to NRHO where it refuels the lander.
- Everything required launches on New Glenn (lander, refuelling transfer vehicle, tanker/depot)
- Lander fits inside 7 meter NG fairing
- Lander heigth = 16 meters.
- Lander empty mass = 16 metric tons.
- Lander wett mass = 45 metric tons.
- Layout bottom to top: BE-7 engines, crew cabin, LOX tank with solar panel attached, LH2 tank with radiators attached, top ring with comms antennas and RCS.
- Crew cabin also holds docking port on one side and crew surface access hatch on other side.
- Crew cabin capable of holding 4 suited crew members.
- Initial duration of surface stay is one week.
- Lander can deliver 20 metric tons of cargo to lunar surface in reusable uncrewed mode.
- Lander can deliver 30 metric tons of cargo to lunar surface in one-way (=disposable) uncrewed mode.
- Multiple test missions will be flown to test the new technology (particularly solar powered 20 Kelvin cryo coolers).
- At least one uncrewed test landing before first crewed landing attempt. The latter is tentatively scheduled for Artemis 5 in 2029.

Good summary of the press conference. At 18m-19m of the video linked in the post above, Blue said that the cislunar transporter will be provided by LM.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=56067.msg2489255#msg2489255

https://twitter.com/LockheedMartin/status/1659576641717248001
« Last Edit: 05/20/2023 03:55 am by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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NASA selects Blue Origin to develop second Artemis lunar lander:
https://spacenews.com/nasa-selects-blue-origin-to-develop-second-artemis-lunar-lander/

Technical strengths and lower cost led NASA to select Blue Origin lander:
https://spacenews.com/technical-strengths-and-lower-cost-led-nasa-to-select-blue-origin-lander/

Online Robotbeat

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Does anyone have a dang diagram for Blue/NationalTeam's architecture? Just a drawing of the different vehicles. Come on, throw me a bone, here...
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Offline Eric Hedman

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It looks like the crew cabin has a fairly big volume, especially compared to what Alpaca was offering.  Does anybody have a guess on how big it will be inside?

Offline lykos

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Has to fit inside a New Glenn fairing, so probably 6 m x 2,5 m inside the lander minus airlock and Gateway hatch.( Airlock of Starship-HLS will be ~ 10 m^3.) So I guess arround 50 m^3 pressurized Volume.

Online Zed_Noir

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Has to fit inside a New Glenn fairing, so probably 6 m x 2,5 m inside the lander minus airlock and Gateway hatch.( Airlock of Starship-HLS will be ~ 10 m^3.) So I guess arround 50 m^3 pressurized Volume.
Some volume will be needed for the plumbing between the tankage and the engine. So likely a single deck torus pressurized crew compartment.

Offline Alberto-Girardi

NASA contract selection statement has been posted:

https://sam.gov/opp/f8bd8dc0d4d346cc853b2185bde0a27d/view

(copy attached)

Some of the highlights from the source selection statement:

Quote from: page 3
On April 10, 2023, I determined that it would be in the Agencyís best interests to make an award without conducting discussions or post-selection negotiations. This decision was based on my assessment that Blue Originís proposal is the one that is the most advantageous to the Agency across all evaluation factors, and that best aligns with the objectives set forth in this solicitation.

Quote from: pages 5 and 6
A. Blue Origin [...]

Blue Origin plans to fund and execute pathfinder lander missions in 2024 and 2025, to land on the Moon to mature several critical, low TRL technologies three years before the Sustaining Lunar Development (SLD) uncrewed demonstration mission by demonstrating lunar lander components, subsystem designs, and system behaviors.

Another unique and highly advantageous aspect that I note in Blue Originís technical approach is the plan to burn down risk associated with the crewed demonstration mission by using a fully integrated flight configuration of all systems for the Uncrewed Flight Test (UFT), which is conducted before the crewed demonstration mission. The success criteria for the UFT that are identified in the Statement of Work (SOW) only include a landing test to the lunar surface with a demonstration of precision landing capabilities. However, the UFT being proposed by Blue Origin will also demonstrate critical lander systems that will be at play during the crewed demonstration mission (i.e., thermal and fluid characterization of cryogenics, lunar surface storage, Environmental Control and Life Support System (ECLSS), reignition of the engines after surface stay, and the autonomous ascent burn and Non-Rectilinear Halo Orbit (NRHO) return). Early demonstration of the crewed lander, through all mission phases, allows lander systems to be exercised in the environments they are expected to operate in during the crewed demonstration mission. Thus, I find that using a fully matured crewed lander configuration for the UFT is another compelling aspect of the technical proposal ó it is a significant strength that is highly advantageous to NASA because it will decrease risk to the crewed demonstration mission.

Quote from: pages 7 and 8
Blue Originís management proposal discusses a corporate support and business approach that I consider to be of particular importance in helping NASA further its interests in the future commercialization of space. It is a significant strength of the proposal. Blue Originís architecture supports market expansions above and beyond the Appendix P mission of the Lunar Cargo Delivery Service, In-Space Transportation services, and Refueling markets by expanding the space economy through Blue Originís availability of its commercial lander capabilities to international agencies, other Government customers, and private astronauts. I also find that reusability is a promising key future characteristic within Blue Originís architecture and business approach, which will greatly benefit the Government in the future by enabling long-term affordability, reducing crew safety risks by having multiple landers available, and/or delivering multiple cargo missions without disposal. When coupled with Blue Originís plans for a reusable New Glenn launch vehicle, the proposal demonstrates a strong commitment to future cost reductions and increasing the customer base with emerging markets. A path to sustainability is also addressed within Blue Originís business approach and it shows NASA that up-front design considerations are being studied and acted upon. Examples include the plan to launch duplicate landers for the 2027 uncrewed flight test and 2028 crewed demonstration missions and their ability to loiter in Near Rectilinear Halo Orbit (NRHO) exceeding NASAís requirements. This approach provides additional avenues for potential reuse and/or as a backup capability to protect against the unknown. Blue Originís proposed corporate contributions demonstrate a significant investment in the SLD development efforts and future business capabilities to mature emerging space economies. This public-private partnership investment will greatly benefit the Government by reducing overall prices and enabling other segments of the Artemis Program.



I am not sure about what the "pathfinder missions in 2024 ad 2025" means.
Since there will be an uncrewed lunar landing in 2027, are those LEO mission, Apollo 9 style?
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Online Zed_Noir

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<snip>
I am not sure about what the "pathfinder missions in 2024 ad 2025" means.
Since there will be an uncrewed lunar landing in 2027, are those LEO mission, Apollo 9 style?

Think the pathfinder missions is to test out the BE-7 engine from LEO departure to Lunar touch down approach. The relite capability of the BE-7 engine in cislunar space environment is a critical program milestone, IMO.


Online Robotbeat

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<snip>
I am not sure about what the "pathfinder missions in 2024 ad 2025" means.
Since there will be an uncrewed lunar landing in 2027, are those LEO mission, Apollo 9 style?

Think the pathfinder missions is to test out the BE-7 engine from LEO departure to Lunar touch down approach. The relite capability of the BE-7 engine in cislunar space environment is a critical program milestone, IMO.
Any actual statements that say the BE-7 will be used for these.
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Offline clongton

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<snip>
I am not sure about what the "pathfinder missions in 2024 ad 2025" means.
Since there will be an uncrewed lunar landing in 2027, are those LEO mission, Apollo 9 style?

Think the pathfinder missions is to test out the BE-7 engine from LEO departure to Lunar touch down approach. The relite capability of the BE-7 engine in cislunar space environment is a critical program milestone, IMO.
Any actual statements that say the BE-7 will be used for these.

Also, any actual statements that New Glenn will be the launch vehicle? The lander is/will be  designed for New Glenn's fairing. Is there a stealth program somewhere to have New Glenn ready for these pathfinder missions? If not, then this just doesn't make any sense because no way will New Glen be ready by then. It's only ONE year away for crying out loud.
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Offline Kasponaut

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Some number and factoids from the announcement:
- NASA contract value is 'a little bit over $3.4B'.
- Blue Origin contributing 'more than 50%'. Their contribution is "well north of $3.4B".
- LOX/LH2 fueled lander
- Lander is single-stage and reusable
- Lander stays in NRHO; does not go back to LEO for refuelling. Instead...
- A transfer vehicle shuttles between LEO and NRHO. It is refuelled in LEO (so, there must be a tanker or depot in LEO) and then moves to NRHO where it refuels the lander.
- Everything required launches on New Glenn (lander, refuelling transfer vehicle, tanker/depot)
- Lander fits inside 7 meter NG fairing
- Lander heigth = 16 meters.
- Lander empty mass = 16 metric tons.
- Lander wett mass = 45 metric tons.
- Layout bottom to top: BE-7 engines, crew cabin, LOX tank with solar panel attached, LH2 tank with radiators attached, top ring with comms antennas and RCS.
- Crew cabin also holds docking port on one side and crew surface access hatch on other side.
- Crew cabin capable of holding 4 suited crew members.
- Initial duration of surface stay is one week.
- Lander can deliver 20 metric tons of cargo to lunar surface in reusable uncrewed mode.
- Lander can deliver 30 metric tons of cargo to lunar surface in one-way (=disposable) uncrewed mode.
- Multiple test missions will be flown to test the new technology (particularly solar powered 20 Kelvin cryo coolers).
- At least one uncrewed test landing before first crewed landing attempt. The latter is tentatively scheduled for Artemis 5 in 2029.

Good summary of the press conference. At 18m-19m of the video linked in the post above, Blue said that the cislunar transporter will be provided by LM.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=56067.msg2489255#msg2489255

https://twitter.com/LockheedMartin/status/1659576641717248001

I canít see any BE-7 engines, but how many are there? :-)
/Kasper

Online Robotbeat

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Some intrepid reporter from NSF should do a FOIA to get more information.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Kasponaut

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Some intrepid reporter from NSF should do a FOIA to get more information.

Yes please :-)
First time I have seen a lunar lander without any visible engines. Why didnít they provide more details.
Also strange we didnít get to see the LM refueling vehicle.
/Kasper

Offline TrevorMonty

&lt;snip&gt;
I am not sure about what the "pathfinder missions in 2024 ad 2025" means.
Since there will be an uncrewed lunar landing in 2027, are those LEO mission, Apollo 9 style?

Think the pathfinder missions is to test out the BE-7 engine from LEO departure to Lunar touch down approach. The relite capability of the BE-7 engine in cislunar space environment is a critical program milestone, IMO.
Any actual statements that say the BE-7 will be used for these.

Also, any actual statements that New Glenn will be the launch vehicle? The lander is/will be  designed for New Glenn's fairing. Is there a stealth program somewhere to have New Glenn ready for these pathfinder missions? If not, then this just doesn't make any sense because no way will New Glen be ready by then. It's only ONE year away for crying out loud.
My guess is psthfinder is original smaller Blue Moon lander Bezos revealed few years ago. Designed to fit on Vulcan or NG.
« Last Edit: 05/22/2023 04:17 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline pochimax

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My guess is psthfinder is original smaller Blue Moon lander Bezos revealed few years ago. Designed to fit on Vulcan or NG.

As they are trying to check technologies in this pathfinder missions they can even use Draper or Astrobotic commercial landings. Both firms are teaming wiht BO here. It dependes on what kind of technlogies they want to test.

Offline TrevorMonty

A hydrolox lander would allow Blue to test
BE7 engine, fuel system, cryocooler, fuel cells and even fuel transfer.
« Last Edit: 05/22/2023 04:17 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline JayWee

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Some intrepid reporter from NSF should do a FOIA to get more information.

Yes please :-)
First time I have seen a lunar lander without any visible engines. Why didnít they provide more details.
Also strange we didnít get to see the LM refueling vehicle.
/Kasper
Could the engine(s) be inside like here?
https://twitter.com/fritzcav/status/1659643701541445632?s=20

Offline Eric Hedman

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Still no news here: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news.html about Lockheed's contribution.

Offline deadman1204

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Still no news here: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news.html about Lockheed's contribution.
Its the weekend. Give it a few days

Offline yg1968

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Here is the link for updates on the Appendix P award:
https://www.usaspending.gov/award/CONT_AWD_80MSFC23CA014_8000_-NONE-_-NONE-

Here is the link for updates on the Options A & B awards:
https://www.usaspending.gov/award/CONT_AWD_80MSFC20C0034_8000_-NONE-_-NONE-
« Last Edit: 06/13/2023 10:11 pm by yg1968 »

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