Author Topic: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent  (Read 8480 times)

Online Chris Bergin

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Offline shuttlefan

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RE: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #1 on: 06/07/2006 01:52 am »
Do you think we will hear the outcome of the review tomorrow?

Offline James Lowe1

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RE: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #2 on: 06/07/2006 01:56 am »
The L2 section has running updates. As soon as our sources know, we'll know and then it'll eventually become an article.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #3 on: 06/07/2006 04:50 pm »
I can't believe that after all this time and all this money and the best PhD's and equipment in the world and people still don't know.  If there is this much uncertainty about the Tank than perhaps its time for the STS program to end.  I want to see the shuttle fly out its program successfully and retire with respect and on a high note.  But that seems nearly impossible.  

How can there be so much uncertainty with so many smart people and billions in dollars spent?
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Online Chris Bergin

Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #4 on: 06/07/2006 04:59 pm »
Quote
wannamoonbase - 7/6/2006  5:37 PM

I can't believe that after all this time and all this money and the best PhD's and equipment in the world and people still don't know.  If there is this much uncertainty about the Tank than perhaps its time for the STS program to end.  I want to see the shuttle fly out its program successfully and retire with respect and on a high note.  But that seems nearly impossible.  

How can there be so much uncertainty with so many smart people and billions in dollars spent?

You don't work for MSFC do you ;)

"Tons" of data being reviewed as we speak. Play by play on L2, but I'll copy as much as possible here too.
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Offline DaveS

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #5 on: 06/07/2006 05:00 pm »
Quote
wannamoonbase - 7/6/2006  6:37 PM

I can't believe that after all this time and all this money and the best PhD's and equipment in the world and people still don't know.  If there is this much uncertainty about the Tank than perhaps its time for the STS program to end.  I want to see the shuttle fly out its program successfully and retire with respect and on a high note.  But that seems nearly impossible.  

How can there be so much uncertainty with so many smart people and billions in dollars spent?
Simply put: There's just a mountain of data to go through and not everything might be as clear as they want it be. There's alot of grey zones that needs a hard look. They also want to be sure that they have covered every scenario imagienable.
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Offline Jim

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #6 on: 06/07/2006 05:10 pm »
because the foam can't be replaced and it's physical properties are not well defined (it not like a metal)

Offline shuttlefan

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #7 on: 06/07/2006 06:17 pm »
I think that if they don't solve the foam issue this time, it's time to give up forever.  Like another poster mentioned, after millions or billions of dollars and the brightest minds working on it and still no resolution of the foam issue, if STS-121 looses a large chunk of foam that should be the last flight.

BTW, I love the shuttle.



 ;)

Offline Mark Dave

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #8 on: 06/07/2006 06:31 pm »
Hmm, yeah I sadly would agree, the foam is a pain.

Online Chris Bergin

RE: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #9 on: 06/07/2006 08:22 pm »
Review appears to be passing...with conditions. Protests again.
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Offline Mark Dave

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #10 on: 06/07/2006 09:59 pm »
What are the problems now? The foam is the problem, yes but what else can be done? Stripping the ET bare of all the foam seems the ultimate solution unless another alternative for the ET TPS can be made quickly. Currently it's all there is at the moment, have to live with it. I've not heard of anything that can do as well as the foam to keep the cryo fuel super cold, but not have a problem shedding off. One good guess is just cover the tank with styrofoam. Some kind of stronger polymer that will stand up to the same stress but not fail.

Online Chris Bergin

RE: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #11 on: 06/07/2006 10:06 pm »
There have been consistent problems with two areas of the aft end of the feedline STA areas. Related to ice/frost ramp fly as is (as in fly as is with current level of modification). Will try and get an image.

Please note, our stance is the review has passed.
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Offline Jim

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #12 on: 06/07/2006 10:10 pm »
Quote
MarkD - 7/6/2006  5:46 PM

What are the problems now? The foam is the problem, yes but what else can be done? Stripping the ET bare of all the foam seems the ultimate solution unless another alternative for the ET TPS can be made quickly. Currently it's all there is at the moment, have to live with it. I've not heard of anything that can do as well as the foam to keep the cryo fuel super cold, but not have a problem shedding off. One good guess is just cover the tank with styrofoam. Some kind of stronger polymer that will stand up to the same stress but not fail.

The foam is to prevent a larger danger, ice on the LO2 tank.
All other LV's that use LH2 use the same foam, but they aren't impact sensitive

Online Chris Bergin

RE: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #13 on: 06/07/2006 10:11 pm »
Ok, this is where we split:

L2: PRCB documents and presentations asap tomorrow from the Thursday PRCB.

This thread related to where we are with the tank.

One area of the tank in question for "concern of aerodynamic stress loading from wind tunnel results": Image modified from a previous flight slide.

Specific area STA1871 - but the "waiver" should be passed through the Low Q mission profile. So I can see the pokeouts and how they've gotten around them.
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Offline Avron

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #14 on: 06/08/2006 03:23 am »
Have no Idea why worry about foam loss at the aft end, I cannot see how it could hit the Orbiter.. say station 1854 and aft, I dont see any issue if 10 ponds come off, there is nothing to hit in the airstream downwind..

I see http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/current.html has a new story that basicaly says its a go... so here's to the second launch of STS covered by NSF, its going to be great.. cannot wait, may need to get myself down for the next one later in the year or early in the next...

Time to go fly...:)

Offline STS Tony

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RE: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #15 on: 06/08/2006 03:42 am »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 7/6/2006  4:53 PM



Please note, our stance is the review has passed.

Nice. It's like being in a NASA boardroom on this site :)

Offline Mark Dave

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #16 on: 06/08/2006 11:25 am »
Yep, the typical meeting room with people sitting at a table. That's how I see any forum. :)

Offline Boeing Nut

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #17 on: 07/04/2006 03:27 pm »
I know this would add weight, but is there a reason why and apoxy coating or a fibreglass coating could not be used to cover the foam itself?

Offline Flightstar

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #18 on: 07/04/2006 03:32 pm »
Quote
Boeing Nut - 4/7/2006  10:14 AM

I know this would add weight,

You answered your own question. No point adding that when the Shuttle would the remain on the ground as the margins are that tight.

Offline Jim

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #19 on: 07/04/2006 04:00 pm »
Quote
Boeing Nut - 4/7/2006  11:14 AM

I know this would add weight, but is there a reason why and apoxy coating or a fibreglass coating could not be used to cover the foam itself?

the coating itself would become a debris source

Offline Boeing Nut

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #20 on: 07/04/2006 06:29 pm »
Quote
Flightstar - 4/7/2006  10:19 AM

Quote
Boeing Nut - 4/7/2006  10:14 AM

I know this would add weight,

You answered your own question. No point adding that when the Shuttle would the remain on the ground as the margins are that tight.

Quote
Jim - 4/7/2006  10:47 AM

the coating itself would become a debris source

I understand, but the tanks used to have a coating early on. I'm wondering if a coating of say fibreglass would be a rigid coating and resist falling off. A shell if you will.

Again, I'm just curious and I have no idea of what affect aerodynamic or other type of stresses would have on such coverings.

Regards

Offline Jim

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Re: Crucial ET Design Certification Review imminent
« Reply #21 on: 07/04/2006 06:35 pm »
time to recertify a new material before the end of the program

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