Author Topic: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum  (Read 68854 times)

Offline mikorangester

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #60 on: 11/05/2010 03:27 pm »
http://mykaitan.blogspot.com/2009/06/propellantless-propulsion.html is why this happens

The article cited here does NOT actually show a propellantless scheme. In the drawing the model atom is the propellant, and the  EM waves are emitted by the spacecraft engine. This is essentially how the Hall Thruster works.

You missed the point. What you are seeing is an effect caused by a movement of the centre of mass, itself caused by electromagnetic waves moving the electron field away from the source of the wave. The effect is miniscule for current experiments because its messy and not the precision of the theoretical model. I read somewhere that there is no theory behind this, well thats not quite right. Standard atomic models can explain the effect simply.

Offline mikorangester

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #61 on: 11/05/2010 03:47 pm »
http://mykaitan.blogspot.com/2009/06/propellantless-propulsion.html is why this happens

The article cited here does NOT actually show a propellantless scheme. In the drawing the model atom is the propellant, and the  EM waves are emitted by the spacecraft engine. This is essentially how the Hall Thruster works.

I forgot to add, this model also provides a solution to artificial gravity (imagine a vibrating plate with a net force - say from a air-conditioner - towards the plate) and force fields (which is self explanatory - just take away the model atom). Holy grails of space technologies.

Offline mlorrey

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #62 on: 11/12/2010 07:47 am »
http://mykaitan.blogspot.com/2009/06/propellantless-propulsion.html is why this happens

The article cited here does NOT actually show a propellantless scheme. In the drawing the model atom is the propellant, and the  EM waves are emitted by the spacecraft engine. This is essentially how the Hall Thruster works.

You missed the point. What you are seeing is an effect caused by a movement of the centre of mass, itself caused by electromagnetic waves moving the electron field away from the source of the wave. The effect is miniscule for current experiments because its messy and not the precision of the theoretical model. I read somewhere that there is no theory behind this, well thats not quite right. Standard atomic models can explain the effect simply.

You don't understand what you are talking about. My points stand. Go take some actual physics classes.
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Offline tnphysics

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #63 on: 11/13/2010 02:59 am »
The aforementioned blog neglects radiation reaction on the EM wave generator.

As for your config, can you exclude the power feedthroughs as a source of force?

Offline Cinder

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #64 on: 06/07/2011 12:11 pm »
Just to let those that are interested know. We will be presenting a paper on our work at the SPESIF 2011 conference. If you're attending the conference and would like to meet in person let me know.

For those of you in Europe who are helping us thanks for your interest.

If possible, can you provide a link to a pdf/ppt in this forum (after the conference) for those of us who won't be there?

No problem. I'm signing up for doing a presentation and publication of our paper. In addition if all goes well we might have a much more robust set of tests finished by the time of the conference that could be made available by then. The new testing will address all the concerns raised in our current study.
Any news?
« Last Edit: 06/07/2011 12:12 pm by Cinder »
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Offline Cinder

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #65 on: 06/21/2011 06:00 pm »
http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=64843#64843
Quote from: Hec031
Just wanted to let every know that I had posted a video on youtube of my experiments with an Asymmetric capacitor operating in a high vacuum environment.

Follow the link if you want to see it.



Sincerely,

Hector
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Offline jel

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #66 on: 03/06/2012 05:47 am »
Its been a while, are we to guess there's been no volunteers to verify the experiments, or perhaps, no one can repeat the findings?

Either way, sounds like you have the conviction to drive this to a conclusion.  Would be nice if there was something new.

Offline mrflora

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #67 on: 03/07/2012 10:01 am »
X-Ray Propulsor: Physical Principle for an Electromagnetic Propellantless Propulsion System, by Alexandre Martins of the Portuguese Institute for Plasmas and Nuclear Fusion.

Quote
Abstract. In this work we are going to develop a physical model that explains how propulsion may be developed in a vacuum by the collision of electrons with an anode. Instead of using principles related to the conservation of only the mechanical momentum to achieve propulsion, like all the current propulsion systems do, the present system achieves propulsion by using principles related to the conservation of the canonical momentum. The complete physical model will be provided and comparison with preliminary experimental results will be performed. These results are important since they show that it is possible to achieve a radical different propulsion system with many advantages.

He claims to generate thrusts in the newton range, at least on paper.

Regards,
M.R.F.

Offline Tass

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #68 on: 03/08/2012 05:26 am »
He claims to generate thrusts in the newton range, at least on paper.

I don't give much for Newtons on paper.

Offline yamato

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #69 on: 03/14/2012 06:08 pm »
how about building a cube-sat with strong enough power source and verify the device in space environment? It's the easiest way to rule out any unidentified influence.

Offline simonbp

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #70 on: 03/14/2012 07:07 pm »
To paraphrase Futurama (talking about Bigfoot): That would take money, and most people who believe in propellantless propulsion don't have any money.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #71 on: 03/14/2012 09:23 pm »
To paraphrase Futurama (talking about Bigfoot): That would take money, and most people who believe in propellantless propulsion don't have any money.

The truth is, they simply don't believe.. they're self-deluding. If they did believe, they'd be pouring their life's savings into their experiments, recruiting access to institutional facilities to prove it, taking out second mortgages, etc.

In the case of *these* experiments, the power requirements are too high to be practical, even if they did work. But it'll be perfect as soon as we have compact fusion! ;)
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline yamato

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #72 on: 03/15/2012 08:16 am »
cube-sat is designed to be cheap, for students and amateur organisations. If couple of students can afford it, couple of inventors could afford it too.
If you really are on the edge of huge discovery, itīs worth it.

Offline antiquark

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #73 on: 03/15/2012 04:34 pm »
Has the original poster updated his progress recently?  Maybe he discovered a flaw in the idea.

Offline albert_redditt

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #74 on: 03/15/2012 06:58 pm »
I was thinking about a a horseshoe magnet at the back of the ship,
 so that a magnetic field flows across the rear of the ship

Then ions could be bombarded against the magnetic field to provide thrust.

I think the field would bend and the ions would stay in the ship and could be vacumed up and recycled. ???


This capacitor seems to be abel to displace itself by small amounts.
What if it was working against a connected magnetic field like describe above.

( you should test it with a built in power supply (battery and step up transformer) , maybe suspended from a rod with wheels to see if you can control the direction of motion.)

Off the rop of my head; I would think you wont get too much until you get up into the several thousnads of volts ( 100's or 1,000's of Kilovolts).


 

Offline mboeller

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #75 on: 03/20/2012 08:29 am »
Hi;

for everyone interested Hector posts again at Talk-Polywell.org since friday:

http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3158&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

Offline wavelet

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #76 on: 03/22/2012 09:51 am »
Oh, it is very simple to show that an asymmetric capacitor can be accelerated by an internal AC source, in air or vacuum and inside a conducting box.

It is so simple that the demonstration is written in four slides, including the title:

http://www.ing.unitn.it/~fontana/electrostatic_levitation.pdf

The problem is that I do not know if there is a conducting boundary at the edge of the universe. But also our operating spacecraft will never know and stop operating as a consequence of this knowledge.... sorry for the delicate confusion.

Wavelet

PS: using AC for the capacitor, a dielectric bubble boundary (with mass - a reaction mass) somewhere in space is good enough for making this thing work.
« Last Edit: 03/22/2012 09:56 am by wavelet »

Offline albert_redditt

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #77 on: 03/23/2012 07:30 am »
So you plan on levitating away from the sun by repulsing its polarity..

That works until you get near an opposing sun that has a different polarity from our sun.

Higgs sucks, so don't plan on creating any Higgs wave to propell the craft.


Exploding small nuclear bombs in the nozzle might work, with each explosion you get an extra couple thousand miles an hour.
Actually it depends on the absorbtion rate of the space around the craft.
If the craft can expell more than the absorbtion rate, it can move forward...



Offline wavelet

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #78 on: 03/23/2012 10:38 am »
Don't go off topic that way....

Here we talk of small effects. Let's say that the orbit of a space object can be changed by electrical asymmetric capacitor propulsion driven by AC voltages, provided that there exist some dielectric discontinuity far from our object. It works in vacuum, and it is not ionic propulsion.

Offline Cinder

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Re: Asymmetric Capacitor In Vacuum
« Reply #79 on: 08/29/2012 09:15 pm »
Any new developments?
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