Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION  (Read 633899 times)

Offline CapitalistOppressor

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #380 on: 10/08/2012 02:40 am »
Does it?  I see what looks like the vehicle passing through the cloud deck.

See if you can play the video I posted above.  It's conclusive that parts came off.

I saw parts.   I like the fairing hypothesis but thats just speculation.  However, my reading of the presser is that an engine out scenario was all but confirmed by Gywnne Showell.  Of course this is still speculation until we get info from SpaceX.

Offline Jason1701

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #381 on: 10/08/2012 02:40 am »
Looks like Spacex just pulled the video off their YouTube channel...

S

It's unlisted now.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #382 on: 10/08/2012 02:42 am »
Does it?  I see what looks like the vehicle passing through the cloud deck.

See if you can play the video I posted above.  It's conclusive that parts came off.

I still disagree.  It happens right as the vehicle passes through the cloud deck.  It could be a part falling off, or a turbopump exploding.  I'd rather wait for something official before jumping to conclusions.  And, yes, the video DOES simply look like a pass through the cloud layer to me.

There were DEFINITELY large pieces coming off, and immediately that engine plume becomes suddenly less fire and more smoke...

Offline DaveJ576

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #383 on: 10/08/2012 02:42 am »
I watched the video several times with rapid start/stops and it really looks like something exploded followed by an engine shut down. Large chunks of something came off the vehicle.
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Offline Chandonn

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #384 on: 10/08/2012 02:45 am »
Yes, and there was speculation an hour ago that the Orbcomm satellite was lost too.  This wild speculation is just that: wild speculation.  Until we hear something conclusive I'm reserving judgement happened.


EDIT: for those wanting the reference to the Orbcomm: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30042.msg962364#msg962364
« Last Edit: 10/08/2012 02:48 am by Chandonn »

Online meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #385 on: 10/08/2012 02:45 am »
I can pull three distinct images from the youTube video.

One clearly shows large pieces in the exhaust flow.

The second shows the smaller ones, but you can make the large piece just exiting the flow's background, on the top edge.  It is illuminated - it looks like a "bump" in the flow.

The third is just starting to get blurry, it's hard to tell what's what, but if you count the bulges the define the nozzle of the engines, you usually see 5 (with the corner engine in the middle) and now only 4 are visible, with the center one missing.  Once you know what it was, it's clear that the dark streak is from the engine - as if it is either very damaged or in the process of shutting down.

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Online sdsds

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #386 on: 10/08/2012 02:46 am »
As for whether this CRS-1 event will impact the CRS-2 launch: it's almost certain that somebody now has a lot more work to do between now and then! I hope they are open about it. Can anyone confirm the investigation will need to fully include the range operator (USAF) at a minimum? Does NASA pay for insight into this at all?
« Last Edit: 10/08/2012 02:47 am by sdsds »
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Offline Hooperball

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #387 on: 10/08/2012 02:47 am »
From what I saw in the video that's not on YouTube any more I'm surprised none of the other engines were taken out by an explosion of that size.

S

(Edited to correct terminology.)
« Last Edit: 10/08/2012 03:51 am by Hooperball »

Offline trothamel

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #388 on: 10/08/2012 02:48 am »
I posted this in the other thread - sorry if that was the wrong place for it - but it looks like two pieces fell off a fraction of a second before the three images meekGee posted.

Although it's hard to catch in stills, those pieces appear to be tumbling.
« Last Edit: 10/08/2012 02:49 am by trothamel »

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #389 on: 10/08/2012 02:50 am »
Can anyone work out what would be the extra gravity losses incurred by an engine shutdown at 1:20 and the correspondingly delayed MECO-1 and MECO-2 (the former presumably with only one additional engine shut down)?

Offline david1971

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #390 on: 10/08/2012 02:51 am »
Didn't see the SpaceX feed, was there "cheerleading" like the last time, or was it "transition to business as usual"?

Offline jimvela

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #391 on: 10/08/2012 02:51 am »
Looks too violent to me to be anything but a RUD on engine #1.  The dark flow looks like it was spewing kerosene for a couple of seconds.

Impressive that they made it to orbit none the less.

During the call, It seemed to me that they also had other issues- I recall they announced nav1 and computer 2, and seemed to have a safing event of some kind.

Robustness in a system is a very good thing.

Offline catdlr

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #392 on: 10/08/2012 02:51 am »
The SpaceX launch video can be  seen at this alternate YouTube posting



The event is at 5:20.
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #393 on: 10/08/2012 02:53 am »
From what I saw in the video that's not on YouTube any more I'm surprised none of the other engines were taken out by a detonation of that size.

S

It wasn't a "detonation." It was most likely either aero loads breaking off a corner fairing which then knocked out an engine, as ugordan has suggested, or a turbopump disintegrating. As someone else pointed out earlier, turbopump failure was something SpaceX considered in their design, and compartmentalized to prevent a turbopump failure from knocking out other engines.

Offline notsorandom

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #394 on: 10/08/2012 02:54 am »
After watching the video in high resolution several times now I'm also pretty convince something violent happened. It didn't look that bad when I watched it live as it seemed like it was just going through some clouds as other have pointed out. Something clearly happened though. It has to be the anomaly which was mentioned. It also seemed like MECO happened a few seconds later then when it was called out. That could just be a delay in the video feeds but the first stage burning longer would make sense if they lost an engine.

Offline GBpatsfan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #395 on: 10/08/2012 02:58 am »
The SpaceX launch video can be  seen at this alternate YouTube posting



The event is at 5:20.
At 5:32 in the right frame you can see the metal bending inwards.  Is that normal?
« Last Edit: 10/08/2012 02:58 am by GBpatsfan »

Offline Lee Jay

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #396 on: 10/08/2012 02:58 am »
Looks too violent to me to be anything but a RUD on engine #1.  The dark flow looks like it was spewing kerosene for a couple of seconds.

What if the faring came off and smacked the engine nozzle?  It's cooled, right?  That could take off part of the nozzle, cause a huge leak, and thus lead the computer to shut it down fuel-rich.

Does that SPECULATION make sense to the experts here?

Offline Hooperball

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #397 on: 10/08/2012 02:59 am »
From what I saw in the video that's not on YouTube any more I'm surprised none of the other engines were taken out by a detonation of that size.

S

It wasn't a "detonation." It was most likely either aero loads breaking off a corner fairing which then knocked out an engine, as ugordan has suggested, or a turbopump disintegrating. As someone else pointed out earlier, turbopump failure was something SpaceX considered in their design, and compartmentalized to prevent a turbopump failure from knocking out other engines.


It certainly appears that large pieces of debris managed to be propelled forward into the supersonic airflow...

How do you think a hot gas turbine spinning at 30,000+ RPM fails? "Disintegrate" seems to be putting it a bit mildly.

S
« Last Edit: 10/08/2012 03:11 am by Hooperball »

Offline zephyrus

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #398 on: 10/08/2012 03:06 am »
I have made a slow motion video of the anomaly. Please tell me if I this is not fair use and I will remove it immediately.


Of course we will have to wait for an official assessment but I would say that something has definitely happened and it is not just some clouds.


Sorry for the slowed down audio, I could not find the exact mencoder option to kill it.

(P.S. Moved from the other thread due to moderator indications).
« Last Edit: 10/08/2012 03:07 am by zephyrus »
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #399 on: 10/08/2012 03:10 am »
From what I saw in the video that's not on YouTube any more I'm surprised none of the other engines were taken out by a detonation of that size.

S

It wasn't a "detonation." It was most likely either aero loads breaking off a corner fairing which then knocked out an engine, as ugordan has suggested, or a turbopump disintegrating. As someone else pointed out earlier, turbopump failure was something SpaceX considered in their design, and compartmentalized to prevent a turbopump failure from knocking out other engines.


It certainly appears that large pieces of debris managed to be propelled forward into the supersonic airflow...

How do you think a hot gas turbine spinning at 30,000+ RPM fails?

S

"Detonation" has a very specific physico-chemical definition. Look it up. A turbopump coming apart at 30,000 rpm, while a very violent event, is not "detonating."

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