Author Topic: SpaceX conducts additional Falcon 9 improvements ahead of busy schedule  (Read 43816 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

Yeah, and the interstage is on this first stage out at McGregor. :)
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Offline Roy_H

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" LOX to be super chilled to 1 degree above the triple point.

This process will be achieved by chilling the LOX (-297 degrees F) with LN2 (-320 degrees F). This will raise the LOX density from 70 pounds per cubic foot to 75 pounds per cubic foot,"

I thought that temperature was only speculation. I take it that has been confirmed by SpaceX?
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Offline wannamoonbase

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Great article with lots of interesting data.

I did stumble over this sentence:

Quote
SpaceX opted against recovery attempts of this stage in its current configuration.

It does sound like there might be a new configuration coming that would be reusable. Perhaps I am overinterpreting?
That is in reference to SpaceX's decision not to do 2nd stage recovery on the F9 family of vehicles. The 2nd stage, like the core stage, was designed with extra structure/components adding weight and margin so it could withstand the intensities of potential return/reuse. Once they moved away from that, they could begin to reduce the weight and margins over time for more mass to orbit. They were checking to see that if along the way in those reductions, they may have inadvertently compromised the integrity of the stage. This has now been deemed not an issue and closed out as a potential contributing factor.

Edit: I see more clearly how that could be interpreted as there being a new potential configuration that would enable 2nd stage reuse. Chris can correct me but I don't think that's the implications, at least not with the F9 family. Full reuse will have to wait for BFR/MCT.

I think there could be a window for 2nd stage reuse on the FH.  But not until the Full Thrust, FH, LC39, Boca Chica, Dragon and first stage reuse engineering and development tasks are nearly completed. 

Could also depend on where Raptor is in it's development.  If it takes too long they could put people to work on a 2nd stage configuration that flies on FH missions.

Finally, I love the term 'Full Thrust' to describe the F9. 
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5

Online meekGee

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Great article with lots of interesting data.

I did stumble over this sentence:

Quote
SpaceX opted against recovery attempts of this stage in its current configuration.

It does sound like there might be a new configuration coming that would be reusable. Perhaps I am overinterpreting?
That is in reference to SpaceX's decision not to do 2nd stage recovery on the F9 family of vehicles. The 2nd stage, like the core stage, was designed with extra structure/components adding weight and margin so it could withstand the intensities of potential return/reuse. Once they moved away from that, they could begin to reduce the weight and margins over time for more mass to orbit. They were checking to see that if along the way in those reductions, they may have inadvertently compromised the integrity of the stage. This has now been deemed not an issue and closed out as a potential contributing factor.

Edit: I see more clearly how that could be interpreted as there being a new potential configuration that would enable 2nd stage reuse. Chris can correct me but I don't think that's the implications, at least not with the F9 family. Full reuse will have to wait for BFR/MCT.

I think there could be a window for 2nd stage reuse on the FH.  But not until the Full Thrust, FH, LC39, Boca Chica, Dragon and first stage reuse engineering and development tasks are nearly completed. 

Could also depend on where Raptor is in it's development.  If it takes too long they could put people to work on a 2nd stage configuration that flies on FH missions.

Finally, I love the term 'Full Thrust' to describe the F9.

I think key to that would be a common low-orbit mission that's done at a high frequency.

A comsat deployer for the constellation would make sense.  That system, all on its own, will take up more launches than everything else combined, so a reusable second stage / deploye might make sense.

Later on, MCT refueling will take up even more launches, and again a dedicated refueler will make sense.

But - none of that is relevant to the near-term improvements.
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Offline SVBarnard

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I think key to that would be a common low-orbit mission that's done at a high frequency.

A comsat deployer for the constellation would make sense.  That system, all on its own, will take up more launches than everything else combined, so a reusable second stage / deploye might make sense.

Later on, MCT refueling will take up even more launches, and again a dedicated refueler will make sense.

But - none of that is relevant to the near-term improvements.

Geez louise what about Bigelow? Dont think for a moment Robert Bigelow wont put and expand upon a LEO orbital hotel economy cause he will, and certainly before the end of the decade I think. Listen 3, thats right, just 3 BA 330s and you have more volume than the entire ISS, and his plans are ambitious, he plans on connecting more and more of them in a "tinker toy" fashion which could yield a space station of many times the volume of the ISS.

The only thing holding back this transformative plan is a ride. A cheap ride I should say. It simply wont be economical if he has to rely on ULA to carry his passengers to orbit. Seriously SpaceX is his only hope of making his business viable. And thats only if SpaceX can make reusability work, so theres a lot that depends on a lot.

I honestly think that Bigelow is one of a kind in the whole world with a very novel piece of innovation that nobody else has. And i think it'll be highly scalable but only and i truly mean only if SpaceX succeeds on the reusability front.

I mean guys just use your imaginations here. There could easily be hundreds of people in LEO at any given time instead of less than 10 as it is now. This would count as a common low-orbit high frequency mission? Could you imagine the first time theres more than a thousand people living off Earth in space but merely in orbit aboard these inflatable habitats? It'll surely be noted in the media.

Thing is though Bigelow wont stop at LEO he wants to go to the Moon ASAP which would certainly require use of an MCT wouldn't it. I mean by the time Bigelow does move on to Moon colonization he would need hundreds of launches a year and I cant imagine SpaceX building hundreds of Falcon 9 second stages, thats just not economical or even practical?

No matter what happens Bigelow will play a pivotal role in Man's early space colonization efforts cause of their novel technology that no one has but everyone will need.

Offline MattMason

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Anyone care to repair the guidance system for this thread? It's more off course than a somersaulting Proton.

I missed what the 15% thrust difference will make for overall payload and recovery operations, if anyone can sum that up.
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Offline GregA

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Which thread is appropriate for second stage reusability discussion? Lets move that stuff there.

Offline guckyfan

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Which thread is appropriate for second stage reusability discussion? Lets move that stuff there.

I think a new thread is appropriate.

Edit: added adress of a thread I started.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38432.0
« Last Edit: 09/12/2015 06:44 am by guckyfan »

Offline Greg Pecchia

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It looks like the Full Thrust Falcon 9v1.1 will have many upgrades besides more thrust.

http://spacenews.com/ses-betting-on-spacex-falcon-9-upgrade-as-debut-approaches/

Offline Nomadd

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Finally, I love the term 'Full Thrust' to describe the F9. 
I wonder if Blue Origin will use that term on their, uh...., interestingly shaped rocket.
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Offline srepetsk

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Offline wannamoonbase

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Static fire of the full-thrust first stage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbe1KNUBEEU&feature=youtu.be

Love the new test stand and points for doing the test at night.

A full duration FH test will be spectacular indeed.
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5

Offline philw1776

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Static fire of the full-thrust first stage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbe1KNUBEEU&feature=youtu.be

Looks like it's back to the drawing board for Elon since full thrust wasn't enough to lift off.   :(
« Last Edit: 10/10/2015 12:00 pm by philw1776 »
FULL SEND!!!!

Offline rpapo

Looks like it's back to the drawing board for Elon since full thrust wasn't enough to lift off.   :(
And it didn't even have the second stage, let alone the payload!   :o
Following the space program since before Apollo 8.

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