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SpaceX Vehicles and Missions => SpaceX General Section => Topic started by: Chris Bergin on 03/09/2011 02:39 pm

Title: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/09/2011 02:39 pm
Presser:

SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations

New Lease Gives Company Space to Grow in McGregor

 

McGregor, TX – Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) and the City of McGregor today signed a lease agreement allowing SpaceX to expand the size of its rocket development facility in McGregor.

 

Under the deal, SpaceX will lease 631 acres -- the equivalent of almost 500 football fields -- for its test facility. The new lease will more than double the size of the current 256 acre site on the Western edge of the City of McGregor, and will last roughly 10 years, from February 2011 to January 31, 2021.

 

“Our Texas rocket development facility is critical to our operations,” said Elon Musk, SpaceX CEO and Chief Technology Officer.  “This lease will allow us to move forward on the growth we have planned for Texas. SpaceX already has more than $2.5 billion in launch contracts for us to carry out over the next few years – McGregor is going to be a very busy place.”

 

The McGregor city council voted unanimously to support the proposal on Friday, February 25, 2011. The final contract was signed today.

 

SpaceX designs, manufactures, tests, and launches reliable, safe and affordable rockets that carry satellites and spacecraft to orbit, and spacecraft to transport cargo and eventually astronauts to and from the International Space Station. Every Merlin engine that powers the company’s Falcon 9 rocket and every Draco thruster that controls its Dragon spacecraft is first tested on the ground in Texas before launch. 

 

Since starting operations in Texas in 2003, SpaceX has invested $50 million in McGregor and expects to have at least 140 employees by year’s end. Texas operations in McGregor will continue to expand to support dozens of upcoming launches already under contract, with more on the way.  In addition, SpaceX is in negotiations with NASA to develop and test a launch abort system for the Dragon spacecraft. That development will begin in McGregor.

 

On December 8, 2010, SpaceX became the first commercial company to successfully return a spacecraft from orbit, a feat achieved by only a few nations in the history of space travel.  The December flight was SpaceX’s first demonstration flight under NASA’s COTS program to develop commercial supply services to the International Space Station. SpaceX will fly at least 12 missions as part of a $1.6 billion contract for NASA to carry cargo to and from the Space Station after the Space Shuttle program ends later this year.  Both the Dragon spacecraft and SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket were designed from the beginning to carry astronauts and are well positioned to fly the first-ever commercial, manned space missions.

 

The growth in McGregor is reflective of growth company wide.  SpaceX now employs over 1,250 employees since being founded in 2002 and the company has been profitable since 2007.  In addition to the McGregor site SpaceX has headquarters in Hawthorne, CA; launch facilities at the Air Force Station at Cape Canaveral and the Reagan Test Site (RTS) at U.S. Army Kwajalein Atoll (USAKA); and offices in Chantilly, VA, Huntsville, AL and Washington, DC.

Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: apace on 03/09/2011 04:40 pm
One month ago rumors about layoffs and now, double of testing range... we can expect new rocket engines in the long run I belive ;-)
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: billh on 03/09/2011 06:10 pm
One month ago rumors about layoffs and now, double of testing range... we can expect new rocket engines in the long run I belive ;-)

I think it was more than rumors. However, it sounds like they were outsourcing some functions instead of downsizing.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Joris on 03/09/2011 06:20 pm
One month ago rumors about layoffs and now, double of testing range... we can expect new rocket engines in the long run I belive ;-)

I think it was more than rumors. However, it sounds like they were outsourcing some functions instead of downsizing.

Or just firing construction crews, since they were done building.

Good thing they're growing IMHO.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: apace on 03/09/2011 06:26 pm
Or just firing construction crews, since they were done building.
Good thing they're growing IMHO.

If I remember correctly the officaly told that, that they outsource construction and maintenance work. And if you look at their open job listings, they are looking for new engineers at McGregor. Good signs!
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: ugordan on 03/09/2011 06:27 pm
Or just firing construction crews, since they were done building.

Good thing they're growing IMHO.

Um, isn't this kind of contradictory? Especially given that they now leased an additional 2x more land than they had up until now?

Unless they plan on running 500 simultaneous football games there, I don't see how they would stop construction.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: apace on 03/09/2011 06:31 pm
Or just firing construction crews, since they were done building.

Good thing they're growing IMHO.

Um, isn't this kind of contradictory? Especially given that they now leased an additional 2x more land than they had up until now?

Unless they plan on running 500 simultaneous football games there, I don't see how they would stop construction.

They announced to outsource the construction works. Perhaps a political deal with the local business to be the good guy.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Rhyshaelkan on 03/09/2011 06:31 pm
Good stuff. Rock on SpaceX!
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Cherokee43v6 on 03/09/2011 06:39 pm
Or just firing construction crews, since they were done building.

Good thing they're growing IMHO.

Um, isn't this kind of contradictory? Especially given that they now leased an additional 2x more land than they had up until now?

Unless they plan on running 500 simultaneous football games there, I don't see how they would stop construction.

They announced to outsource the construction works. Perhaps a political deal with the local business to be the good guy.

Pure speculation, but hiring local companies to do the work could have been a preliminary stipulation for acquiring the 500 acres from the town.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Joris on 03/09/2011 07:22 pm
Or just firing construction crews, since they were done building.

Good thing they're growing IMHO.

Um, isn't this kind of contradictory? Especially given that they now leased an additional 2x more land than they had up until now?

Unless they plan on running 500 simultaneous football games there, I don't see how they would stop construction.

I don't think the people who will build these new facilities are the ones that have build all other spacex facilities.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Nomadd on 03/09/2011 07:33 pm
 Only 13,000 acres to go before they pass Stennis.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Halidon on 03/09/2011 08:41 pm
Real hard to read that and not assume "more motors, bigger motors" but that would incur the wrath of Jim so I'll simply say: Interesting.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Joris on 03/09/2011 09:27 pm
Real hard to read that and not assume "more motors, bigger motors" but that would incur the wrath of Jim so I'll simply say: Interesting.

 :D, I'll join you at the 'interesting' - side.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: docmordrid on 03/09/2011 10:03 pm
The first blush has to be Merlin 2, what ever form it takes, and Raptor are green lighted.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Jim on 03/09/2011 11:44 pm
Huh? 

How do you get Merlin 2 and Raptor?

Merlin2 is to replace 9 Merlin 1's.  They already test the F9 first stage their with 9 engines.  So, using logic and not unwarranted fanboi speculation, there is no need for infrastructure changes for Merlin 2.  And there still is no indication for Merlin 2 development.

As for Raptor, again no indication for it. 

What is Spacex looking to do next other than F9H?  Not Merlin 2, not Raptor, but commercial crew.  So logic would say this extra area is for Dragon LAS and maybe powered landing testing.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: docmordrid on 03/10/2011 12:40 am
Wouldn't they do a Dragon LAS free flight or drop test at Edwards etc. because of the hypergolics?  Downtown McGregor is just 3 miles NE, and most likely down wind.

A tethered test at McGregor maybe, but would they need several hundred acres for that?
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Jim on 03/10/2011 12:43 am
Wouldn't they do a free flight or drop test at Edwards because of the hypergolics?  Downtown McGregor is just 3 miles NE, and most likely down wind.

A tethered test at McGregor maybe, but would they need several hundred acres for that?


Where do you think they test the Dracos?
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: docmordrid on 03/10/2011 12:44 am
C'mon - there's a helluva quantitative and safety difference between teasing Dracos on a stand and flying a crew Dragon.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Jim on 03/10/2011 12:50 am
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Cape+Canaveral,+Brevard,+Florida&ll=28.522498,-80.815553&spn=0.003775,0.006968&t=h&z=18

Look how close this is to a school
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Jim on 03/10/2011 12:53 am
C'mon - there's a helluva quantitative and safety difference between teasing Dracos on a stand and flying a crew Dragon.

Who said flying.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Tnarg on 03/10/2011 04:37 pm
From an untrained eye It looks to me as if they are planning from going from making and testing a less than one Merlin 1 engine every 2.5 weeks to 1 every week*.

As a fan boy I think they would be crazy if there were not making sure there new test site could be easily upgraded to test a Merlin 2.




*Numbers based on target date for hardware arrival at launch site.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Robotbeat on 03/10/2011 05:00 pm
Huh? 

How do you get Merlin 2 and Raptor?

Merlin2 is to replace 9 Merlin 1's.  They already test the F9 first stage their with 9 engines.  So, using logic and not unwarranted fanboi speculation, there is no need for infrastructure changes for Merlin 2.  And there still is no indication for Merlin 2 development.

As for Raptor, again no indication for it. 

What is Spacex looking to do next other than F9H?  Not Merlin 2, not Raptor, but commercial crew.  So logic would say this extra area is for Dragon LAS and maybe powered landing testing.
I have to agree that Dragon LAS is probably the most likely answer, here.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Jason1701 on 03/10/2011 07:17 pm
C'mon - there's a helluva quantitative and safety difference between teasing Dracos on a stand and flying a crew Dragon.

Who said flying.

That means propulsive landing and pad abort tests.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 03/10/2011 08:12 pm
C'mon - there's a helluva quantitative and safety difference between teasing Dracos on a stand and flying a crew Dragon.

Who said flying.

That means propulsive landing and pad abort tests.

FWIW, the PAs and landing tests will likely be carried out at Edwards or at the Nellis Range.  I know that SpaceX is a civilian private organisation, but as it's doing work for NASA (and, potentially, for DoD), I'm sure that DoD will see their way clear to allow full-up tests of the hardware to take place on military ranges.

That said, no doubt that McGreggor will be the site of tests of the engines on test stands.  One day, we might see post-manufacture hotfire tests of every capsule's landing/abort system engines on test stands at McGreggor too, before the vehicle is shipped to CCAFS.


[edit]
Added some thoughts about what could be happening in the near future
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: notherspacexfan on 03/10/2011 09:18 pm
Could the additional land be for warehouses?

Ideally once operations are running smoothly you would want to decouple the manufacturing schedule, the testing schedule, and the launch schedule. The only place where SpaceX has a lot of storage space is in Hawthorne, so stages can only be shipped to Texas when the last ones have left for the launch site, and they can only leave for the launch site when the last rocket has flown. This would improve with a large storage facility in Texas, close enough that you can transport without packing for the road transport, but far enough away from your test stand that you don't have problems.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Cherokee43v6 on 03/10/2011 09:27 pm
C'mon - there's a helluva quantitative and safety difference between teasing Dracos on a stand and flying a crew Dragon.

Who said flying.

That means propulsive landing and pad abort tests.

FWIW, the PAs and landing tests will likely be carried out at Edwards or at the Nellis Range.  I know that SpaceX is a civilian private organisation, but as it's doing work for NASA (and, potentially, for DoD), I'm sure that DoD will see their way clear to allow full-up tests of the hardware to take place on military ranges.

That said, no doubt that McGreggor will be the site of tests of the engines on test stands.  One day, we might see post-manufacture hotfire tests of every capsule's landing/abort system engines on test stands at McGreggor too, before the vehicle is shipped to CCAFS.


[edit]
Added some thoughts about what could be happening in the near future

Of course, Spaceport America would be more than accommodating too.  Probably have fewer hoops to jump through and be more responsive too.  (Don't forget the fiasco with SpaceX's first Vandenberg launch facility.  Part of the long delay of Falcon 1's first flight attempt was having to build Kwaj from scratch after DOD leased them an 'occluded pad' at Vandy)
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: mrhuggy on 03/10/2011 09:33 pm
Talking of pad abort tests another possibility would be at the Cape. Most likely would be White Sands or Edwards.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Jim on 03/10/2011 09:49 pm

Of course, Spaceport America would be more than accommodating too.  Probably have fewer hoops to jump through and be more responsive too. 

Not really, they wont have the infrastructure for such tests.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Cherokee43v6 on 03/10/2011 09:54 pm

Of course, Spaceport America would be more than accommodating too.  Probably have fewer hoops to jump through and be more responsive too. 

Not really, they wont have the infrastructure for such tests.

I believe that SpaceX wants to use their LAS as a propulsive landing stage.  In that case they ALREADY have the infrastructure for that.  They hosted the NASA Lunar Lander Challenge with it.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: corrodedNut on 03/10/2011 10:32 pm
What about the possibility of a new test stand for Falcon Heavy? Not a tall, vertical stand like the big "tripod", but a horizontal one like ATK's in Utah.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: ugordan on 03/10/2011 10:40 pm
I was thinking more of additional Merlin 1 test stand(s). With a high production rate, acceptance testing could become a bottleneck.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: mr. mark on 03/10/2011 10:43 pm
This is probably what all those rumors were about a month ago about an additional facility that we were hearing about and I mentioned. How things change rather quickly. Glad to see this expansion is coming to pass for whatever reason.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Jim on 03/10/2011 11:54 pm
What about the possibility of a new test stand for Falcon Heavy? Not a tall, vertical stand like the big "tripod", but a horizontal one like ATK's in Utah.

horizontal doesn't work for liquid stages.  Also, what reason?  the individual cores can be tested, there is nothing to gain buy ground testing 3 of them at once.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Danderman on 03/11/2011 12:33 am
What about the possibility of a new test stand for Falcon Heavy? Not a tall, vertical stand like the big "tripod", but a horizontal one like ATK's in Utah.

horizontal doesn't work for liquid stages.  Also, what reason?  the individual cores can be tested, there is nothing to gain buy ground testing 3 of them at once.

Horizontal seemed to work for this liquid stage.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/11/2011 12:40 am

Horizontal seemed to work for this liquid stage.

Reread "Taming Liquid Hydrogen: The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket, 1958-2002", the RL-10 was initially tested horizontally, worked well, then when they went to test it vertically it did not work. It required changes.

Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/11/2011 01:03 am
What about the possibility of a new test stand for Falcon Heavy? Not a tall, vertical stand like the big "tripod", but a horizontal one like ATK's in Utah.

horizontal doesn't work for liquid stages.  Also, what reason?  the individual cores can be tested, there is nothing to gain buy ground testing 3 of them at once.

Horizontal seemed to work for this liquid stage.

We're seeing a vertical S-IC stage there, firing into a 90 degree deflector on the B-1 test stand I think.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Jim on 03/11/2011 01:08 am
Reread "Taming Liquid Hydrogen: The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket, 1958-2002", the RL-10 was initially tested horizontally, worked well, then when they went to test it vertically it did not work. It required changes.


engine vs stage
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Lars_J on 03/11/2011 01:12 am
What about the possibility of a new test stand for Falcon Heavy? Not a tall, vertical stand like the big "tripod", but a horizontal one like ATK's in Utah.

Why would you build a test stand for the F9 Heavy? There's no reason to run full stage burns of all three cores simultaneously.

Before a launch they might run a quick couple of seconds fire, but there's no reason to do that at McGregor.

Also, for the Merlin2 speculation... Even if it was coming soon (which it probably isn't), it should be able to be tested on the existing stand - where they did run 9 Merlins for a full stage run.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: kraisee on 03/11/2011 01:26 am
Liquid run tanks always need their engine feedlines located at the bottom.   Gravity is a bit funny like that :)

So if you try to fire a normal liquid rocket stage horizontally, you'll only be able to run it for a short while before the fluid level gets down to the feedline -- and you don't want to run most engines while ingesting pressurization gas!

To do a full-duration integrated liquid stage test, you've got to run it vertically so that the tank can be run all the way to depletion.

To test just the engines, you'll use separate run tanks that always have their outlets at the bottom, whether they are vertically or horizontally oriented.

Ross.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: kraisee on 03/11/2011 01:30 am
Didn't Space-X have some local noise complaints when they ran the 9x engine configuration at their full power around 1.1m lb thrust?

If they're getting noise complaints at that level, they're going to have real issues trying to run a 1.7m lb thrust engine at that site.

Ross.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: corrodedNut on 03/11/2011 01:37 am
Well, that's why I asked...so I guess that means the first time all three Delta IV Heavy cores were run together was its maiden flight?
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: kraisee on 03/11/2011 01:44 am
What about the possibility of a new test stand for Falcon Heavy? Not a tall, vertical stand like the big "tripod", but a horizontal one like ATK's in Utah.

horizontal doesn't work for liquid stages.  Also, what reason?  the individual cores can be tested, there is nothing to gain buy ground testing 3 of them at once.

Horizontal seemed to work for this liquid stage.

We're seeing a vertical S-IC stage there, firing into a 90 degree deflector on the B-1 test stand I think.

Correct Ed.   There's a better image of it here (click image to get other resolutions), and you can clearly see the stage integrated vertically in the far-most stand.

(http://mix.msfc.nasa.gov/IMAGES/MEDIUM/6758560.jpg) (http://mix.msfc.nasa.gov/abstracts.php?p=1158)
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: MKremer on 03/11/2011 01:48 am

Of course, Spaceport America would be more than accommodating too.  Probably have fewer hoops to jump through and be more responsive too. 

Not really, they wont have the infrastructure for such tests.

I believe that SpaceX wants to use their LAS as a propulsive landing stage.  In that case they ALREADY have the infrastructure for that.  They hosted the NASA Lunar Lander Challenge with it.
If Dragon uses Draco thrusters for LAS/landing, those use hypergol propellants.

What Jim means by infrastructure is not only a takeoff/landing area, but the facilities to both store and handle hypergolic fuels, plus pre- and post-test vehicle processing. That location might also have to implement and pass environmental and safety studies to gain permission for allowing a hypergolic-fueled vehicle to be processed and launched, plus possible aborts and range safety.


Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Jim on 03/11/2011 01:52 am
Also radars and telemetry antennas
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Namechange User on 03/11/2011 01:53 am
Draco only produces about 80-90 pounds trust
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Halidon on 03/11/2011 02:10 am
We haven't really had any clear indication of what sort of engine SpaceX would use for Abort/Propulsive Landing, have we? Their presentations haven't really discussed it and Elon didn't speak much about engines when he talked about the A/PL concept.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Dave G on 03/11/2011 02:21 am
If Dragon uses Draco thrusters for LAS/landing, those use hypergol propellants.

What Jim means by infrastructure is not only a takeoff/landing area, but the facilities to both store and handle hypergolic fuels, plus pre- and post-test vehicle processing. That location might also have to implement and pass environmental and safety studies to gain permission for allowing a hypergolic-fueled vehicle to be processed and launched, plus possible aborts and range safety.

NOFBX use in Dragon?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24360.0
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Antares on 03/11/2011 04:06 am
Didn't Space-X have some local noise complaints when they ran the 9x engine configuration at their full power around 1.1m lb thrust?

If they're getting noise complaints at that level, they're going to have real issues trying to run a 1.7m lb thrust engine at that site.

The major noise complaint was a late night 9-engine test.  SpaceX manages things a bit better now

The complaints also went down after they got the $1.6B CRS contract.  The locals like them a lot more after that.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: Robotbeat on 03/11/2011 04:29 am
Didn't Space-X have some local noise complaints when they ran the 9x engine configuration at their full power around 1.1m lb thrust?

If they're getting noise complaints at that level, they're going to have real issues trying to run a 1.7m lb thrust engine at that site.

The major noise complaint was a late night 9-engine test.  SpaceX manages things a bit better now

The complaints also went down after they got the $1.6B CRS contract.  The locals like them a lot more after that.
Funny how that works. :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: MP99 on 03/11/2011 07:33 am
Didn't Space-X have some local noise complaints when they ran the 9x engine configuration at their full power around 1.1m lb thrust?

I believe there was a temperature inversion, which helped carry the sound much further than it would have done otherwise.

Presuming they can avoid these conditions, I think the problem would be less.

cheers, Martin
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: go4mars on 11/12/2011 07:44 pm
The a link on the grasshopper thread to http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/media/20111110%20SpaceX%20Grasshopper%20Final%20EA.pdf

shows that "The McGregor test site has an existing capacity to store 260,000 gallons of LOX and 102,000 gallons of RP-1".

I just don't think I had seen that info before.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 11/12/2011 07:56 pm
The a link on the grasshopper thread to http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/media/20111110%20SpaceX%20Grasshopper%20Final%20EA.pdf

shows that "The McGregor test site has an existing capacity to store 260,000 gallons of LOX and 102,000 gallons of RP-1".

I just don't think I had seen that info before.

Thats ~ enough to do 4 full duration 1st stage test fires.

Though at their current engine testing pace they would have to refill the tanks completely at least monthly.
Title: Re: SpaceX Expanding Texas Operations
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 11/12/2011 08:13 pm
Just thinking about what the propellant costs could be per year I get a value of up to $6M a year in propellant. That’s all dependent on the burn durations and the number of engine firings in a year. The $6M value is an upper end so actual could be as low as $1M. $1M is only 2 full refills.