Author Topic: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover  (Read 206556 times)

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #40 on: 03/26/2017 01:49 pm »
APXS detects elements, but not how they are assembled in minerals.  So if the translation is correct the instrument is probably an infrared spectrometer like the one used on Yutu.


Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #41 on: 03/26/2017 11:23 pm »
APXS detects elements, but not how they are assembled in minerals.  So if the translation is correct the instrument is probably an infrared spectrometer like the one used on Yutu.

It makes good sense to use Yutu heritage where possible. 
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline K210

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #42 on: 03/27/2017 04:14 am »
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the past
« Last Edit: 03/27/2017 04:15 am by K210 »

Offline savuporo

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #43 on: 03/27/2017 05:05 am »
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go?..

Possibly because they have pushed indigenous spacecraft engineering and technology far enough, and learned everything there is to learn from others, to be confident in this ?
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Offline frensel

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #44 on: 03/27/2017 08:53 am »
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the past
I think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #45 on: 03/27/2017 09:22 am »
Preliminary payloads being carried. Rover life is planned for 90 days.

Orbiter
--------
High-Resolution Camera (0.1 m)

That would give us higher-resolution picture than HIRISE.

Just to be clear, that is my interpretation from what is said in the conclusion:

"100 m-resolution Mars images and local 10 cm-resolution images"

I think you'd need to have a pretty large mirror. If my calculations are correct, 0.1 m resolution at 200 km requires 0.103 arcsecond resolution. From

http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/users/lin/ast110-6/applets/mirror_angular_resol.htm

a 1.23 m mirror has 0.102 arcsecond resolution. Perhaps what they meant by "local" are images taken by the Lander as is it descending to the surface.
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Online Zed_Noir

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #46 on: 03/27/2017 10:20 am »
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the past
I think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.

There is a simpler explanation. They are losing face to the Indians. Who does have a functional Mars orbiter right now. If ISRO manage to deployed another Mars orbiter before the Chinese have their initial orbiter than the Chinese national prestige suffers.

Think of the Indians & the Chinese as analogs of Bezes & Musk in an International one-upsmanship contest.


Offline gosnold

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #47 on: 03/27/2017 05:28 pm »
Perhaps what they meant by "local" are images taken by the Lander as is it descending to the surface.

That would be more coherent with the picture of the orbiter above. It does not seem to have a large telescope.

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #48 on: 03/27/2017 09:26 pm »
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the past
I think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.

There is a simpler explanation. They are losing face to the Indians. Who does have a functional Mars orbiter right now. If ISRO manage to deployed another Mars orbiter before the Chinese have their initial orbiter than the Chinese national prestige suffers.

Think of the Indians & the Chinese as analogs of Bezes & Musk in an International one-upsmanship contest.

Thinking it's all about "face" is pandering to 19th century cultural stereotypes.

The media incapable of thinking of space activities in terms other of "races", but the reality is China, India, and everyone else their own national or organisational goals in here, which can be as much collaborative as competitive.

"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #49 on: 03/27/2017 09:31 pm »
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the past
I think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.

All missions are technical demonstration , but not as an end in itself generally.  This is clearly a science focused mission given the extensive science payload. 

Mars is a big place and the Curiosity and MER missions have covered only tiny parts of it, not even necessarily the best places.There is plenty more to learn by future rover missions.

Sample return missions are also science missions. China has Mars sample return as a goal.   There is no indication that this mission will prepare for it though, except very generally.
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline chewi

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #50 on: 09/20/2017 11:17 am »
six rovers? )

Mars probe to carry 13 types of payload on 2020 mission

Quote
BEIJING, Sept. 20 (Xinhua) -- China's Mars probe will carry 13 types of payload, including six rovers, in its first mission to the planet, scheduled for 2020.

"The Mars exploration program is well underway," said Zhang Rongqiao, chief architect of the Mars mission, at the Beijing International Forum on Lunar and Deep-space Exploration, which opened Wednesday. "The payloads will be used to collect data on the environment, morphology, surface structure and atmosphere of Mars."

China plans to send a spacecraft to orbit, land and deploy a rover on Mars in 2020. The probe will be launched on a Long March-5 carrier rocket fr om the Wenchang space launch center in southern China's Hainan Province.

The lander will separate from the orbiter at the end of a journey of around seven months and touch down in a low latitude area in the northern hemisphere of Mars wh ere the rover will explore the surface.

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #51 on: 09/20/2017 11:19 am »
If China could accomplish a Mars Sample Return mission - that would be a heck of an engineering, operations, science and 'Soft Power' coup! I wish them luck.
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Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #52 on: 09/20/2017 11:26 am »
SIX rovers?
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Offline chewi

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #53 on: 09/20/2017 11:31 am »
SIX rovers?
Apparently 6 payloads (instruments) on a rover?

Online Galactic Penguin SST

Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #54 on: 09/20/2017 11:55 am »
SIX rovers?
Apparently 6 payloads (instruments) on a rover?

That's correct (I have checked the original Chinese article). Also the 13 instruments refers to those on the orbiter.

Does anyone have a full list of them?
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Offline david1971

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #55 on: 09/20/2017 03:50 pm »
So I've never thought about this, but do the Chinese have their own version of the DSN?  Or will they simply buy time on the DSN?

Online Zed_Noir

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #56 on: 09/20/2017 04:08 pm »
So I've never thought about this, but do the Chinese have their own version of the DSN?  Or will they simply buy time on the DSN?
Don't think it will too hard or expensive for the Chinese to set up DSN tracking sites in Africa and Latin America.

Offline plutogno

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #57 on: 09/20/2017 07:07 pm »
So I've never thought about this, but do the Chinese have their own version of the DSN?  Or will they simply buy time on the DSN?

ever tried to google it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Deep_Space_Network

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #58 on: 09/20/2017 08:02 pm »
So I've never thought about this, but do the Chinese have their own version of the DSN?  Or will they simply buy time on the DSN?

The short answer is Yes, they do. They have several large dishes spread out across China (one in the far West, One in the far South, one near Beijing, and one in the far East) and they are building another big one in Argentina.
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Offline savuporo

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #59 on: 09/20/2017 08:17 pm »
Chinese DSN tracking capabilities are fairly advanced as well, Delta-DOR tracking and basically cosmic sharp shooting has been demonstrated. See Chang'e-2 Toutatis flyby maneuvering.
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