Author Topic: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover  (Read 207443 times)

Offline Lsquirrel

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #20 on: 11/17/2014 11:38 am »
found on a French forum, a reportage on the Mars lander + rover on show at the Zhuhai airshow


note the CG rendering starting at 1:47. I wonder why would the Chinese go for such a complex lander to land a MER-sized rover, while they could use airbags. Is the lander itself instrumented somehow? would they use it as a EDL demonstrator for a bigger lander?

SASTIND and CASTC have a ambitious mission: mars sample return.
CASTC have planned to launch a MSR mission before 2030

a MER-sized rover don't need a complex lander, but it's necessary for MSR

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #21 on: 11/20/2014 10:35 pm »
I mean, why use a Viking to lend a MER-sized rover?

Because the lander has its own mission, just like Chang'e 3.
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #22 on: 11/20/2014 10:37 pm »
Looking at the video it would appear that the lander separates from the orbiter/fly-by probe during the approach to Mars like the Soviet-era Mars 2/3/6/7, while the Viking landers did their descents from Mars orbit.   Of course, the US rovers also completed direct descents to Mars.   This could cause problems if there is only a limited ability to change the landing site in the case of a dust storm being in progress.
Lander separates from the orbiter/fly-by probe during the approach to Mars...
It's only a mistake, while the rover using  wheels like the luna rover Yutu, it's also a mistake

according to some news about the mission, lander descents from Mars orbit

Do you have a source for the descent from Mars orbit?

Why use different wheels to Yutu?
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline plutogno

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #23 on: 05/06/2016 06:43 am »
Do you have a source for the descent from Mars orbit?

it's mentioned in quite a few IAC papers. unfortunately I am not home and I can't dig any reference now

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #24 on: 05/06/2016 07:52 pm »
I don't know what the Chinese are planning, but just a few words about the choice, land from approach or land from orbit. 

Viking had to land from orbit because the landing sites could not be certified using pre-existing Mariner 9 data alone.  Viking orbited for a while and imaged the sites (and then had to search for better ones) before landing.  That's not necessary now because so much high resolution imagery is available.  And landing from approach means the orbiter does not have to put the mass of the lander in orbit. 

So there are good reasons for landing from approach, which everything since Viking has done (or tried to do).  On the other hand landing from orbit may offer greater positional accuracy or lower heating during entry, so may be preferable.  So there are arguments on both sides.

Offline Dalhousie

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"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #26 on: 01/17/2017 03:07 am »
Images from the article.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #27 on: 01/17/2017 03:28 am »
It would be great if the orbiter would carry an Elektra compatible transceiver so that it could serve as a relay for landers.


Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #28 on: 01/17/2017 03:47 am »
No way the US will put its Elektra relay on a Chinese spacecraft!  And it will presumably be relaying its own lander and rover data.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #29 on: 01/17/2017 03:49 am »
Elektra is just a UHF radio. If the Chinese wanted to listen in on Elektra communications they would be doing so.

Offline savuporo

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #30 on: 01/17/2017 04:06 am »
Elektra is just a UHF radio. If the Chinese wanted to listen in on Elektra communications they would be doing so.

Technically, CCSDS Proximity-1 description should be available to them, they can build their own. Testing is where it gets a tad tricky, but can be worked out through ESA i believe.

EDIT: they are probably working on it : http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/7586714/
« Last Edit: 01/17/2017 04:08 am by savuporo »
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #31 on: 01/30/2017 03:30 pm »
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-01/29/c_136019570.htm


China unveils top names for Mars spacecraft

Source: Xinhua   2017-01-29 17:26:03

BEIJING, Jan. 29 (Xinhua) -- China has released a short list of eight names for the country's first Mars spacecraft, which is scheduled to launch by 2020.

The eight names-- "Fenghuang" (phoenix), "Tianwen" (questions for heaven), "Huoxing" (Mars), "Tenglong" (soaring dragon), "Qilin" (Kylin), "Zhuque" (rose finch), "Zhuimeng" (chasing dreams) and "Fengxiang" (flying phoenix), were the top names chosen from over 14,500 choices submitted through more than 35,900 proposals entered by people worldwide.

Offline plutogno

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #32 on: 01/30/2017 05:55 pm »
so, is Yinghuo going to remain a one-off name?

Offline ZachS09

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #33 on: 01/31/2017 01:47 pm »
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-01/29/c_136019570.htm


China unveils top names for Mars spacecraft

Source: Xinhua   2017-01-29 17:26:03

BEIJING, Jan. 29 (Xinhua) -- China has released a short list of eight names for the country's first Mars spacecraft, which is scheduled to launch by 2020.

The eight names-- "Fenghuang" (phoenix), "Tianwen" (questions for heaven), "Huoxing" (Mars), "Tenglong" (soaring dragon), "Qilin" (Kylin), "Zhuque" (rose finch), "Zhuimeng" (chasing dreams) and "Fengxiang" (flying phoenix), were the top names chosen from over 14,500 choices submitted through more than 35,900 proposals entered by people worldwide.

If I had to choose one of the top eight, I would go with "Huoxing" because since it's China's first Mars mission, you have to put the word "Mars" in the spacecraft's name. In this case, it's the Chinese translation.
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Offline Nordren

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #34 on: 01/31/2017 02:39 pm »
The eight finalists for the public logo competition for Mars 2020. Many derive from 火 (fire) from Chinese name for Mars, 火星 (huoxing / 'fire star'). Also prominent or combined is the Chinese aerospace symbol.

Offline plutogno

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #35 on: 01/31/2017 03:16 pm »
If I had to choose one of the top eight, I would go with "Huoxing" because since it's China's first Mars mission

the first Chinese-launched Mars mission, actually.
China's first Mars mission was the ill fated Yinghuo-1

Offline plutogno

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #36 on: 03/24/2017 08:29 pm »
Mission Overview and Key Technologies of the First Mars Probe of China
Quote
The first Chinese Mars exploration will fulfill the goals of “orbiting, landing and roving” in one mission. This paper briefly describes the process of international Mars exploration and analyzes the development of Chinese Mars exploration. It focuses on introducing the scientific significance and engineering difficulties of Mars exploration, and provides an overview of the system design of the probe, including the flight profile, the preliminary selection of the landing site, the entry, descent and landing (also known as EDL) process. Four types of key technologies, including telecommunications, autonomous control, the EDL process, and its structure and mechanism, are detailed in this paper. Finally, the paper highlights the expected scientific and engineering results of the mission.

http://engine.scichina.com/publisher/scp/journal/SCTS/doi/10.1007/s11431-016-9035-5?slug=abstract

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #37 on: 03/26/2017 06:34 am »
Preliminary payloads being carried. Rover life is planned for 90 days.

Orbiter
--------
Moderate Resolution Camera (100 m)
High-Resolution Camera (0.1 m)
Subsurface Detection Radar
Mineral Spectrum Detector
Magnetometer
Particle Analyzer

Rover
-------
Multi-Spectral Camera
Subsurface Detection Radar
Surface Component Detector
Surface Magnetic Field Detector
Climate Detector
Navigation and Topography Camera
« Last Edit: 03/26/2017 06:35 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #38 on: 03/26/2017 07:22 am »
Looks like a good mix of instruments, with Yutu heritage for most of them

I assume that the "Mineral Spectrum Detector" is either a APXS or an infrared spectrometer.

The approach to landing site selection is interesting.  Rather than proposing many specific  sites and choosing one, two broad regions have been nominated, and presumably specific sites within each will be discussed.

Area 1 might have good diversity of transported material that has come down Ares, Shalbanta, Simud and Tiu Valles.  It might be rather rough, if Pathfinder and Viking 1 imagery is any guide.

Area 2 is probably quite smooth, with both the western (edge of Syrtis) and eastern (edge of Elysium Mons) extremities of significant interest.


"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline gosnold

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Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
« Reply #39 on: 03/26/2017 12:41 pm »
Preliminary payloads being carried. Rover life is planned for 90 days.

Orbiter
--------
High-Resolution Camera (0.1 m)

That would give us higher-resolution picture than HIRISE.

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