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Robotic Spacecraft (Astronomy, Planetary, Earth, Solar/Heliophysics) => Space Science Coverage => Topic started by: Dalhousie on 06/25/2014 09:01 am

Title: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/25/2014 09:01 am
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1539568/next-stop-mars-china-aims-send-rover-red-planet-within-six-years

"China has ambitious plans to touch down on Mars by 2020, likely with a rover, and to collect its own samples from the red planet 10 years after that, a top aerospace scientist has revealed."

[zubenelgenubi: This is the program thread.  This is the launch thread. (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48559.0)]
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: beidou on 06/25/2014 04:54 pm
I don't think that will be likely, to be honest...
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/26/2014 11:08 am
I don't think that will be likely, to be honest...

Why not?  That's six years away, by that time all being well we will have seen the second lunar sample return mission as well as another lunar rover, and the LM-5 in service.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Star One on 06/26/2014 11:23 am
I don't think that will be likely, to be honest...

Why not?  That's six years away, by that time all being well we will have seen the second lunar sample return mission as well as another lunar rover, and the LM-5 in service.

How much of the Lunar hardware being used/developed also be used for this?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/26/2014 09:48 pm
I don't think that will be likely, to be honest...

Why not?  That's six years away, by that time all being well we will have seen the second lunar sample return mission as well as another lunar rover, and the LM-5 in service.

How much of the Lunar hardware being used/developed also be used for this?

Interesting question.  Some items, for example the spacecraft in Mars orbit, the entry capsule for the sample return, could be derived from lunar hardware, with adjustments to thermal control and power systems for example.  individual  components and some systems - instruments for example - could be reused I imagine.  But of course others would have to be new - parachutes, heat shield, and structures for the lander would have to be built for stronger gravity.

Although a rover is mentioned, I would think they would try an orbiter first, and build from there.  There have been presentations at conferences I have attended talking about the 2016 and 2018 windows, although it is now probably too late for the 2016 window.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hop on 06/27/2014 06:15 am
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1539568/next-stop-mars-china-aims-send-rover-red-planet-within-six-years

"China has ambitious plans to touch down on Mars by 2020, likely with a rover, and to collect its own samples from the red planet 10 years after that, a top aerospace scientist has revealed."
What "top aerospace scientists" want to do, and what the government wants to pay for are quite different, but frequently conflated in press reports.

2020 for a modest lander or rover doesn't seem out of the question, but like you I'd expect them to at least fly an orbiter and perhaps an EDL demonstrator first. Sample return would be a much bigger investment than China has put into planetary science so far.

Jeff Foust commented on this https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/482124770725875712
Quote
In 2000, Ouyang said "in 2020 they will establish a moon village or even a town." How's that coming along? http://bit.ly/1mvUhhA
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 06/27/2014 07:21 am
I don't know how many of you were following the Chinese space program in the early 2000s, but when they approved the Chang'e program, they publicly announced that they did.
only when I will see such an announcement (from official sources, not from one or two scientists) I will believe that they are going to Mars.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/27/2014 07:56 am
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1539568/next-stop-mars-china-aims-send-rover-red-planet-within-six-years

"China has ambitious plans to touch down on Mars by 2020, likely with a rover, and to collect its own samples from the red planet 10 years after that, a top aerospace scientist has revealed."
What "top aerospace scientists" want to do, and what the government wants to pay for are quite different, but frequently conflated in press reports.

2020 for a modest lander or rover doesn't seem out of the question, but like you I'd expect them to at least fly an orbiter and perhaps an EDL demonstrator first. Sample return would be a much bigger investment than China has put into planetary science so far.

Well yes, but this seems to be achievable.  Sample return would be 2030 or so, at least 16 years off.  In 10 years there will five launch windows, plenty of time for a phased development from an orbiter to sample return, a similar time scale for the Chang'e program.  And the Chinese have shown an interest in sample return, witness the planned Chang'e 5 and 6 missions, and the test flight for the sample return capsule later this years.

Given the fact that there have been several papers at international conferences on Chinese Mars missions in recent years, and the success and commitment to the Chang'e program, this seems very doable, Foust's baseless cynicism not withstanding (if the Chinese had devoted Apollo scale resources to going to the Moon by 2020, I am sure they would have, clearly they have not, perhaps wisely, preferring a more diverse and paced program).

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/27/2014 08:11 am
I don't know how many of you were following the Chinese space program in the early 2000s, but when they approved the Chang'e program, they publicly announced that they did.
only when I will see such an announcement (from official sources, not from one or two scientists) I will believe that they are going to Mars.

I suspect it is only a matter of time. Ouyang Ziyuan is chief scientist of the Lunar Exploration Program there quite highly placed, and is at the core of Chinese planetary space policy formulation.

https://www.gwu.edu/~spi/assets/docs/Besha_article_2010.pdf

The first internal studies for the Moon began in 1992, in 2004 the Chang'e program was officially approved.  The first mission was in 2007.  So 12 years from first internal discussion to official public approval, and three years from then to the first mission. 

Working back from a 2020 date for Mars then we would need approval by about 2017 at the latest (maybe following a successful lunar sample return?), with studies having begun in 2008.  There was mention of Mars missions at a Chinese presentation at the LPSC in 2009, so internal discussion would have begun before then.

So the timelines are feasible, IMHO.
 
EDIT I completely forgot when writing the above that of course China has already had a Mars mission, the small Yinghou-1 orbiter, that was carried by the unsuccessful Fobos-Grunt mission.

The agreement approving this missions was signed between China and Russia March 2007.  This suggests that some thought had been given to Mars missions in China prior to that date. It was launched four years later in November 2011. 

The timeline is therefore reasonably consistent with what I outlined.  First serious consideration towards Mars missions beginning a bit earlier than above, say 2005, with an early start with Yinghou-1 happening because of the opportunity of being a secondary spacecraft carried on Fobos-Grunt.   

What is surprising is that there have not been approvals already, but presumably China wants to focus on lunar missions at this stage, moving on to Mars missions once the Chang'e program is complete. 


Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 11/09/2014 09:22 am
JPL rover driver Scott Maxwell has a nice analysis of the Chinese Mars rover design recently unveiled in Shanghai
https://plus.google.com/+ScottMaxwell/posts/jQDggja1WJb
see http://english.cri.cn/12394/2014/11/07/53s851410.htm for pics of "the beast"
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: method on 11/11/2014 08:49 am
Did you see the new configuration of a new martian lander at Zhuhai Airshow ?

If not, you have to go to Defense.Pk and "China Defense Forum". Then, you have an amazing post  about the Airshow with this new martian lander at p 42.

http://defence.pk/threads/zhuhai-air-show-2014-updates-discussions.341334/page-41
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Satori on 11/11/2014 11:06 am
From Xinhua, China Exclusive: China developing Mars rover (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-11/11/c_133782210.htm).
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/12/2014 03:55 am
Thanks Satori. That article mentions that a sample return would be performed around 2030, which is in line with previous information.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 11/16/2014 10:04 am
found on a French forum, a reportage on the Mars lander + rover on show at the Zhuhai airshow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwq3p-UKLEQ

note the CG rendering starting at 1:47. I wonder why would the Chinese go for such a complex lander to land a MER-sized rover, while they could use airbags. Is the lander itself instrumented somehow? would they use it as a EDL demonstrator for a bigger lander?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ncb1397 on 11/16/2014 11:47 am
found on a French forum, a reportage on the Mars lander + rover on show at the Zhuhai airshow

note the CG rendering starting at 1:47. I wonder why would the Chinese go for such a complex lander to land a MER-sized rover, while they could use airbags. Is the lander itself instrumented somehow? would they use it as a EDL demonstrator for a bigger lander?

What about it looks complicated? Very similar landing method to Viking back in the 70s.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 11/16/2014 01:50 pm
I mean, why use a Viking to lend a MER-sized rover?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phillip Clark on 11/16/2014 02:47 pm
Looking at the video it would appear that the lander separates from the orbiter/fly-by probe during the approach to Mars like the Soviet-era Mars 2/3/6/7, while the Viking landers did their descents from Mars orbit.   Of course, the US rovers also completed direct descents to Mars.   This could cause problems if there is only a limited ability to change the landing site in the case of a dust storm being in progress.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: method on 11/16/2014 09:38 pm
The informations concerning the origins of Mars program are wrong.

The first official speech concerning a Mars probe came from Ma Xingrui in 1998 (Space 98, Beijing). At this time, I was in this exhibition when he presented Mars as a goal for space exploration after the Moon.

Two years later, in Rio de Janeiro, I met some peoples who spoke about a competition between Moon, Mars, and "Stardust" probes. Moon won the competition...
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/17/2014 03:36 am
Thanks very much for posting that video. The landing animation shows a different configuration for the lander platform, with six deployable petals instead of four sets of wheel ramps. The poster in the background says

"Around 2020, Mars orbiting, landing and rover exploration will be carried out in one mission."

I think it makes sense to use a traditional lander, as the Chinese already have experience in this area from their Chang'e landers which includes obstacle avoidance. That technology can also be used for larger payloads. Airbags are limited for small payloads. A Skycrane could have been used, but that gets away from Chinese experience.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Lsquirrel on 11/17/2014 11:26 am
Looking at the video it would appear that the lander separates from the orbiter/fly-by probe during the approach to Mars like the Soviet-era Mars 2/3/6/7, while the Viking landers did their descents from Mars orbit.   Of course, the US rovers also completed direct descents to Mars.   This could cause problems if there is only a limited ability to change the landing site in the case of a dust storm being in progress.
Lander separates from the orbiter/fly-by probe during the approach to Mars...
It's only a mistake, while the rover using  wheels like the luna rover Yutu, it's also a mistake

according to some news about the mission, lander descents from Mars orbit
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Lsquirrel on 11/17/2014 11:38 am
found on a French forum, a reportage on the Mars lander + rover on show at the Zhuhai airshow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwq3p-UKLEQ

note the CG rendering starting at 1:47. I wonder why would the Chinese go for such a complex lander to land a MER-sized rover, while they could use airbags. Is the lander itself instrumented somehow? would they use it as a EDL demonstrator for a bigger lander?

SASTIND and CASTC have a ambitious mission: mars sample return.
CASTC have planned to launch a MSR mission before 2030

a MER-sized rover don't need a complex lander, but it's necessary for MSR
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 11/20/2014 10:35 pm
I mean, why use a Viking to lend a MER-sized rover?

Because the lander has its own mission, just like Chang'e 3.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 11/20/2014 10:37 pm
Looking at the video it would appear that the lander separates from the orbiter/fly-by probe during the approach to Mars like the Soviet-era Mars 2/3/6/7, while the Viking landers did their descents from Mars orbit.   Of course, the US rovers also completed direct descents to Mars.   This could cause problems if there is only a limited ability to change the landing site in the case of a dust storm being in progress.
Lander separates from the orbiter/fly-by probe during the approach to Mars...
It's only a mistake, while the rover using  wheels like the luna rover Yutu, it's also a mistake

according to some news about the mission, lander descents from Mars orbit

Do you have a source for the descent from Mars orbit?

Why use different wheels to Yutu?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 05/06/2016 06:43 am
Do you have a source for the descent from Mars orbit?

it's mentioned in quite a few IAC papers. unfortunately I am not home and I can't dig any reference now
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 05/06/2016 07:52 pm
I don't know what the Chinese are planning, but just a few words about the choice, land from approach or land from orbit. 

Viking had to land from orbit because the landing sites could not be certified using pre-existing Mariner 9 data alone.  Viking orbited for a while and imaged the sites (and then had to search for better ones) before landing.  That's not necessary now because so much high resolution imagery is available.  And landing from approach means the orbiter does not have to put the mass of the lander in orbit. 

So there are good reasons for landing from approach, which everything since Viking has done (or tried to do).  On the other hand landing from orbit may offer greater positional accuracy or lower heating during entry, so may be preferable.  So there are arguments on both sides.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 01/16/2017 09:21 am
http://gbtimes.com/china/china-reveals-shortlist-names-and-logos-2020-mars-mission
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/17/2017 03:07 am
Images from the article.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Danderman on 01/17/2017 03:28 am
It would be great if the orbiter would carry an Elektra compatible transceiver so that it could serve as a relay for landers.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/17/2017 03:47 am
No way the US will put its Elektra relay on a Chinese spacecraft!  And it will presumably be relaying its own lander and rover data.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Danderman on 01/17/2017 03:49 am
Elektra is just a UHF radio. If the Chinese wanted to listen in on Elektra communications they would be doing so.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: savuporo on 01/17/2017 04:06 am
Elektra is just a UHF radio. If the Chinese wanted to listen in on Elektra communications they would be doing so.

Technically, CCSDS Proximity-1 description should be available to them, they can build their own. Testing is where it gets a tad tricky, but can be worked out through ESA i believe.

EDIT: they are probably working on it : http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/7586714/
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 01/30/2017 03:30 pm
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-01/29/c_136019570.htm


China unveils top names for Mars spacecraft

Source: Xinhua   2017-01-29 17:26:03

BEIJING, Jan. 29 (Xinhua) -- China has released a short list of eight names for the country's first Mars spacecraft, which is scheduled to launch by 2020.

The eight names-- "Fenghuang" (phoenix), "Tianwen" (questions for heaven), "Huoxing" (Mars), "Tenglong" (soaring dragon), "Qilin" (Kylin), "Zhuque" (rose finch), "Zhuimeng" (chasing dreams) and "Fengxiang" (flying phoenix), were the top names chosen from over 14,500 choices submitted through more than 35,900 proposals entered by people worldwide.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 01/30/2017 05:55 pm
so, is Yinghuo going to remain a one-off name?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ZachS09 on 01/31/2017 01:47 pm
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-01/29/c_136019570.htm


China unveils top names for Mars spacecraft

Source: Xinhua   2017-01-29 17:26:03

BEIJING, Jan. 29 (Xinhua) -- China has released a short list of eight names for the country's first Mars spacecraft, which is scheduled to launch by 2020.

The eight names-- "Fenghuang" (phoenix), "Tianwen" (questions for heaven), "Huoxing" (Mars), "Tenglong" (soaring dragon), "Qilin" (Kylin), "Zhuque" (rose finch), "Zhuimeng" (chasing dreams) and "Fengxiang" (flying phoenix), were the top names chosen from over 14,500 choices submitted through more than 35,900 proposals entered by people worldwide.

If I had to choose one of the top eight, I would go with "Huoxing" because since it's China's first Mars mission, you have to put the word "Mars" in the spacecraft's name. In this case, it's the Chinese translation.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Nordren on 01/31/2017 02:39 pm
The eight finalists for the public logo competition for Mars 2020. Many derive from 火 (fire) from Chinese name for Mars, 火星 (huoxing / 'fire star'). Also prominent or combined is the Chinese aerospace symbol.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 01/31/2017 03:16 pm
If I had to choose one of the top eight, I would go with "Huoxing" because since it's China's first Mars mission

the first Chinese-launched Mars mission, actually.
China's first Mars mission was the ill fated Yinghuo-1
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 03/24/2017 08:29 pm
Mission Overview and Key Technologies of the First Mars Probe of China
Quote
The first Chinese Mars exploration will fulfill the goals of “orbiting, landing and roving” in one mission. This paper briefly describes the process of international Mars exploration and analyzes the development of Chinese Mars exploration. It focuses on introducing the scientific significance and engineering difficulties of Mars exploration, and provides an overview of the system design of the probe, including the flight profile, the preliminary selection of the landing site, the entry, descent and landing (also known as EDL) process. Four types of key technologies, including telecommunications, autonomous control, the EDL process, and its structure and mechanism, are detailed in this paper. Finally, the paper highlights the expected scientific and engineering results of the mission.

http://engine.scichina.com/publisher/scp/journal/SCTS/doi/10.1007/s11431-016-9035-5?slug=abstract
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 03/26/2017 06:34 am
Preliminary payloads being carried. Rover life is planned for 90 days.

Orbiter
--------
Moderate Resolution Camera (100 m)
High-Resolution Camera (0.1 m)
Subsurface Detection Radar
Mineral Spectrum Detector
Magnetometer
Particle Analyzer

Rover
-------
Multi-Spectral Camera
Subsurface Detection Radar
Surface Component Detector
Surface Magnetic Field Detector
Climate Detector
Navigation and Topography Camera
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 03/26/2017 07:22 am
Looks like a good mix of instruments, with Yutu heritage for most of them

I assume that the "Mineral Spectrum Detector" is either a APXS or an infrared spectrometer.

The approach to landing site selection is interesting.  Rather than proposing many specific  sites and choosing one, two broad regions have been nominated, and presumably specific sites within each will be discussed.

Area 1 might have good diversity of transported material that has come down Ares, Shalbanta, Simud and Tiu Valles.  It might be rather rough, if Pathfinder and Viking 1 imagery is any guide.

Area 2 is probably quite smooth, with both the western (edge of Syrtis) and eastern (edge of Elysium Mons) extremities of significant interest.


Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: gosnold on 03/26/2017 12:41 pm
Preliminary payloads being carried. Rover life is planned for 90 days.

Orbiter
--------
High-Resolution Camera (0.1 m)

That would give us higher-resolution picture than HIRISE.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/26/2017 01:49 pm
APXS detects elements, but not how they are assembled in minerals.  So if the translation is correct the instrument is probably an infrared spectrometer like the one used on Yutu.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 03/26/2017 11:23 pm
APXS detects elements, but not how they are assembled in minerals.  So if the translation is correct the instrument is probably an infrared spectrometer like the one used on Yutu.

It makes good sense to use Yutu heritage where possible. 
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: K210 on 03/27/2017 04:14 am
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the past
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: savuporo on 03/27/2017 05:05 am
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go?..

Possibly because they have pushed indigenous spacecraft engineering and technology far enough, and learned everything there is to learn from others, to be confident in this ?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: frensel on 03/27/2017 08:53 am
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the past
I think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 03/27/2017 09:22 am
Preliminary payloads being carried. Rover life is planned for 90 days.

Orbiter
--------
High-Resolution Camera (0.1 m)

That would give us higher-resolution picture than HIRISE.

Just to be clear, that is my interpretation from what is said in the conclusion:

"100 m-resolution Mars images and local 10 cm-resolution images"

I think you'd need to have a pretty large mirror. If my calculations are correct, 0.1 m resolution at 200 km requires 0.103 arcsecond resolution. From

http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/users/lin/ast110-6/applets/mirror_angular_resol.htm

a 1.23 m mirror has 0.102 arcsecond resolution. Perhaps what they meant by "local" are images taken by the Lander as is it descending to the surface.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Zed_Noir on 03/27/2017 10:20 am
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the past
I think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.

There is a simpler explanation. They are losing face to the Indians. Who does have a functional Mars orbiter right now. If ISRO manage to deployed another Mars orbiter before the Chinese have their initial orbiter than the Chinese national prestige suffers.

Think of the Indians & the Chinese as analogs of Bezes & Musk in an International one-upsmanship contest.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: gosnold on 03/27/2017 05:28 pm
Perhaps what they meant by "local" are images taken by the Lander as is it descending to the surface.

That would be more coherent with the picture of the orbiter above. It does not seem to have a large telescope.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 03/27/2017 09:26 pm
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the past
I think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.

There is a simpler explanation. They are losing face to the Indians. Who does have a functional Mars orbiter right now. If ISRO manage to deployed another Mars orbiter before the Chinese have their initial orbiter than the Chinese national prestige suffers.

Think of the Indians & the Chinese as analogs of Bezes & Musk in an International one-upsmanship contest.

Thinking it's all about "face" is pandering to 19th century cultural stereotypes.

The media incapable of thinking of space activities in terms other of "races", but the reality is China, India, and everyone else their own national or organisational goals in here, which can be as much collaborative as competitive.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 03/27/2017 09:31 pm
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the past
I think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.

All missions are technical demonstration , but not as an end in itself generally.  This is clearly a science focused mission given the extensive science payload. 

Mars is a big place and the Curiosity and MER missions have covered only tiny parts of it, not even necessarily the best places.There is plenty more to learn by future rover missions.

Sample return missions are also science missions. China has Mars sample return as a goal.   There is no indication that this mission will prepare for it though, except very generally.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: chewi on 09/20/2017 11:17 am
six rovers? )

Mars probe to carry 13 types of payload on 2020 mission (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-09/20/c_136624363.htm)

Quote
BEIJING, Sept. 20 (Xinhua) -- China's Mars probe will carry 13 types of payload, including six rovers, in its first mission to the planet, scheduled for 2020.

"The Mars exploration program is well underway," said Zhang Rongqiao, chief architect of the Mars mission, at the Beijing International Forum on Lunar and Deep-space Exploration, which opened Wednesday. "The payloads will be used to collect data on the environment, morphology, surface structure and atmosphere of Mars."

China plans to send a spacecraft to orbit, land and deploy a rover on Mars in 2020. The probe will be launched on a Long March-5 carrier rocket fr om the Wenchang space launch center in southern China's Hainan Province.

The lander will separate from the orbiter at the end of a journey of around seven months and touch down in a low latitude area in the northern hemisphere of Mars wh ere the rover will explore the surface.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: MATTBLAK on 09/20/2017 11:19 am
If China could accomplish a Mars Sample Return mission - that would be a heck of an engineering, operations, science and 'Soft Power' coup! I wish them luck.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phillip Clark on 09/20/2017 11:26 am
SIX rovers?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: chewi on 09/20/2017 11:31 am
SIX rovers?
Apparently 6 payloads (instruments) on a rover?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/20/2017 11:55 am
SIX rovers?
Apparently 6 payloads (instruments) on a rover?

That's correct (I have checked the original Chinese article). Also the 13 instruments refers to those on the orbiter.

Does anyone have a full list of them?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: david1971 on 09/20/2017 03:50 pm
So I've never thought about this, but do the Chinese have their own version of the DSN?  Or will they simply buy time on the DSN?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Zed_Noir on 09/20/2017 04:08 pm
So I've never thought about this, but do the Chinese have their own version of the DSN?  Or will they simply buy time on the DSN?
Don't think it will too hard or expensive for the Chinese to set up DSN tracking sites in Africa and Latin America.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 09/20/2017 07:07 pm
So I've never thought about this, but do the Chinese have their own version of the DSN?  Or will they simply buy time on the DSN?

ever tried to google it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Deep_Space_Network
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: whitelancer64 on 09/20/2017 08:02 pm
So I've never thought about this, but do the Chinese have their own version of the DSN?  Or will they simply buy time on the DSN?

The short answer is Yes, they do. They have several large dishes spread out across China (one in the far West, One in the far South, one near Beijing, and one in the far East) and they are building another big one in Argentina.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: savuporo on 09/20/2017 08:17 pm
Chinese DSN tracking capabilities are fairly advanced as well, Delta-DOR tracking and basically cosmic sharp shooting has been demonstrated. See Chang'e-2 Toutatis flyby maneuvering.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/21/2017 12:23 am
SIX rovers?
Apparently 6 payloads (instruments) on a rover?

That's correct (I have checked the original Chinese article). Also the 13 instruments refers to those on the orbiter.

Does anyone have a full list of them?

Apparently the article was amended - 7 instruments on the orbiter and 6 on the rover for a total of 13. ::)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 10/04/2017 09:28 am
details of the payload start to emerge. A 50 cm-per pixel camera

China is sending one of the most powerful deep space cameras to Mars
http://gbtimes.com/china-is-sending-one-of-the-most-powerful-deep-space-cameras-to-mars
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 10/08/2017 10:27 pm
details of the payload start to emerge. A 50 cm-per pixel camera

China is sending one of the most powerful deep space cameras to Mars
http://gbtimes.com/china-is-sending-one-of-the-most-powerful-deep-space-cameras-to-mars

This is good too see.  Having worked quite a bit with MOC and HiRISE images (with a few successful HiWISH request as well) it's good to see a larger field of view.  The narrow field of MOC and HiRISE can be frustrating.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Sizzy on 03/09/2018 03:25 pm
The probe will be launched around July 23 ~ August 5 2020
After 6~7 months flying, the probe will captured by mars gravity around Jan or Feb 2021 (If everything went smoothly)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Sizzy on 03/11/2018 01:51 pm
Here's more details about this mission
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 03/13/2018 02:47 am
Paper on 2020 mission. http://jdse.bit.edu.cn/sktcxben/ch/reader/view_abstract.aspx?file_no=20170602&flag=1

Edited and translated Table 1 giving science payload.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Avengers on 03/23/2018 03:57 am
more details:http://www.spaceflightfans.cn/28219.html
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 11/16/2018 08:05 pm
Scientific Objectives and Payloads of Chinese First Mars Exploration
http://www.cjss.ac.cn/EN/abstract/abstract2602.shtml
Quote
China plans to implement the first Mars exploration mission in 2020. It will conduct global and comprehensive exploration of Mars and high precision and fine resolution detection of key areas on Mars through orbiting, landing and roving. The scientific objectives include studying the Martian morphology and geological structure characteristics, studying the soil characteristics and the water-ice distribution on the Martian surface, studying the material composition on the Martian surface, studying the atmosphere ionosphere and surface climate and environmental characteristics of Mars, studying the physical field and internal structure of Mars and the Martian magnetic field characteristics. The mission equips 12 scientific payloads to achieve these scientific objectives. This paper mainly introduces the scientific objectives, exploration task, and scientific payloads.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/17/2018 01:26 am
Scientific Objectives and Payloads of Chinese First Mars Exploration
http://www.cjss.ac.cn/EN/abstract/abstract2602.shtml

Cool! Attached is the full paper.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 05/31/2019 10:35 pm
China’s first Mars spacecraft undergoing integration for 2020 launch (https://spacenews.com/chinas-first-mars-spacecraft-undergoing-integration-for-2020-launch/), dated May 29

Quote
“Mars 2020 mission spacecraft is undergoing integration,” Wang Chi, director of the National Space Science Center (NSSC) in Beijing, told SpaceNews in a rare update on the mission.
<snip>
The NSSC will be involved in integration of the instruments with the spacecraft.

The rest of the article appears to be confirmation of information already posted in this thread.

Quote
A successful launch of the Long March 5 will be required for China to be ready for the Mars Hohmann transfer window in [July-August] 2020, and missing this low-energy launch period would bring a wait of 26 months until the next mission launch opportunity.

Mars 2020, ExoMars 2020, and the UAE Mars orbiter should use the same launch window.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phillip Clark on 07/23/2019 09:45 am
I am seeing comments on the launch thread that this spacecraft is named HX-1 which means "Mars 1" (original!).   Can someone please tell me what the "HX" stands for?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Nordren on 07/23/2019 09:52 am
Likely HuoXing (火星), meaning Mars ('fire star').
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: luhai167 on 07/23/2019 06:27 pm
I am seeing comments on the launch thread that this spacecraft is named HX-1 which means "Mars 1" (original!).   Can someone please tell me what the "HX" stands for?
Hou Xing, Fire star which is Mars.

for future reference on Chinese terminology, the first five planets are named after Chinese elements:

Mercury, Hui Xing, Water Star

Venus, Jing Xing, Metal Star

Mars, Hou Xing, Fire Star

Jupiter, Mu Xing, Wood Star

Saturn, Tu Xing, Earth Star


The rest of the planets are named after translations of their perspective Greek gods names.

Uranus, Tian Wang Xing, Heaven King Star

Neptune, Hai Wang Xing, Sea King Star

They are refered to as stars due to short hand, to proper, the full names are the following. Planets are fully named as Xing Xing, Wondering Star; star stars are fully named as Heng Xing, Eternal Star; moons except Earth's moon as well as Earth's artificial satellite are named as Wei Xing, Guardian Star.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 07/23/2019 06:37 pm
I just wonder why they dropped the Yinghuo name (that of the failed Fobos-Grunt subsatellite)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: luhai167 on 07/24/2019 01:08 am
I just wonder why they dropped the Yinghuo name (that of the failed Fobos-Grunt subsatellite)
My guess is the new project don't yet have an official name yet, as the Chinese name is still very generic. A naming competition probably will happen, Yinghuo-2 could be still be in the running, however, it is a very modest, failed mission from quite a while ago, so there is no attachment to that name.

http://jdse.bit.edu.cn/sktcxben/ch/reader/view_abstract.aspx?flag=1&amp;file_no=20180503&amp;journal_id=sktcxben

http://www.xinhuanet.com/tech/2019-07/09/c_1124726406.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Tywin on 09/25/2019 01:30 am
Any news about if this mission is still on track for 2020?

And the name of the rover still isn't release?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 10/09/2019 06:36 pm
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1181949970209005568
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tolis on 10/09/2019 09:16 pm
The bottom part looks more like a cruise stage than an orbiter.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 10/10/2019 10:31 am

The bottom part looks more like a cruise stage than an orbiter.


It's an orbiter nevertheless: it will have medium-res and high-resolution cameras (up to 0.5-m resolution), a magnetometer, subsurface radar, and several particles and infrared spectrometers.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 10/11/2019 04:48 am

The bottom part looks more like a cruise stage than an orbiter.

Do you have the original source of this slide/presentation?


It's an orbiter nevertheless: it will have medium-res and high-resolution cameras (up to 0.5-m resolution), a magnetometer, subsurface radar, and several particles and infrared spectrometers.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 10/11/2019 10:17 am

The bottom part looks more like a cruise stage than an orbiter.

It's an orbiter nevertheless: it will have medium-res and high-resolution cameras (up to 0.5-m resolution), a magnetometer, subsurface radar, and several particles and infrared spectrometers.

Do you have the original source of this slide/presentation?

Coming from this paper: https://www.infosondas.com/2019/02/documento-sonda-del-futuro-scientific-objectives-and-payloads-of-chinese-first-mars-exploration/ (I saw it first in Daniel Marin's latest blog post: https://danielmarin.naukas.com/2019/10/10/la-sonda-china-huoxing-1-esta-lista-para-viajar-a-marte-en-2020/ in Spanish)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tehwkd on 10/11/2019 11:09 am
CASC posted a high resolution version of the pic on their weibo earlier today but deleted it few hours later.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 10/12/2019 03:29 am
Looks like the re-entry vehicle has attitude control jets.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ionzide on 04/22/2020 07:48 am
China to announce name of its first Mars exploration mission

Quote
The name and logo of China's first Mars exploration mission will be made public on the Space Day of China, which will fall on April 24, according to the China National Space Administration.


https://www.shine.cn/news/nation/2004226765/
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Star One on 06/06/2020 04:55 pm
Whereabouts on Mars is the rover going is this known yet?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 06/06/2020 06:10 pm
Roughly the area considered at one time for Viking, and called Amenthes at the time.  It's northwest of Curiosity and InSight.  I will post a map later today to illustrate it.  Chryse (near Viking 1 and Pathfinder) was considered but is less favored.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 06/06/2020 08:25 pm
I can't do better than link to Emily Lakdawalla's article and map here:

https://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/map-every-mars-landing-attempt.html (https://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/map-every-mars-landing-attempt.html)

(but later I will add more detail on the preferred landing area).
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Star One on 06/07/2020 06:31 am
I can't do better than link to Emily Lakdawalla's article and map here:

https://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/map-every-mars-landing-attempt.html (https://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/map-every-mars-landing-attempt.html)

(but later I will add more detail on the preferred landing area).
Thank you for that information.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 06/13/2020 10:39 pm
Here are two studies reported as abstracts at LPSC this year (sadly cancelled but the abstracts and some posters are still available).

They are really the same study done in two different places, the landing areas of Chryse and Isidis/Utopia (the latter preferred, as I understand it).  At each location the likelihood of dust storm activity is assessed and areas with (slightly) lower chances of a dust storm are chosen as suggested landing areas.  I am personally more interested in geological studies of landing sites but I have yet to see any published.  If anyone has seen geological studies please let us know.

Chryse:
http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2020/pdf/1680.pdf (http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2020/pdf/1680.pdf)

Isidis/Utopia:
http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2020/pdf/1905.pdf (http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2020/pdf/1905.pdf)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: spacexplorer on 06/27/2020 10:52 am
[zubenelgenubi: Attach image files to a post.  Do not embed them.]

https://www.globalscience.it/18859/tianwen-1-la-prima-missione-cinese-su-marte/
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 07/01/2020 02:32 pm
some details of the site selection for TW-1 (in Chinese, alas) can be found in this paper:

http://jdse.bit.edu.cn/sktcxb/en/article/doi/10.15982/j.issn.2095-7777.2017.04.002
The Status of NASA Mars 2020 Rover Landing Site Selection and Some Thoughts on the Landing Part of China 2020 Mars Mission

Quote
The important discoveries of Mars exploration in the past 20 years and the major unsolved questions on Martian life, climate and geology were reviewed. The scientific goals, payloads information and engineering constrains of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) 2020 Mars mission were presented. In addition, the geologic characteristics of the top 8 candidate landing sites selected by hundreds of planetary scientists in three landing site selection workshops were described. Three candidate landing zones for China's 2020 Mars mission were proposed based on the different mission goals: 1) addressing key life, climate and geology questions; 2) resource reconnaissance for future human missions; 3) engineering demonstration.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 07/24/2020 10:25 am
China launches global naming campaign for Mars rover

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-07/24/c_139237887.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: spacexplorer on 07/26/2020 07:12 am
Launched:
https://twitter.com/Dr_ThomasZ/status/1286261118634283008

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-07/23/c_139234396.htm

Separation confirmed, travel toward Mars started:
http://www.xinhuanet.com/tech/2020-07/23/c_1126275764.htm

Arrival at Mars scheduled for February 2021

[zubenelgenubi: Attach images to your post. Do not embed them.]
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 07/28/2020 07:13 am
I don't think this paper on TW-1 has been mentioned yet:

https://doi.org/10.1007/s42064-017-0011-8
Overview of China’s 2020 Mars mission design and navigation

Quote
Scheduled for an Earth-to-Mars launch opportunity in 2020, the China’s Mars probe will arrive on Mars in 2021 with the primary objective of injecting an orbiter and placing a lander and a rover on the surface of the Red Planet. For China’s 2020 Mars exploration mission to achieve success, many key technologies must be realized. In this paper, China’s 2020 Mars mission and the spacecraft architecture are first introduced. Then, the preliminary launch opportunity, Earth–Mars transfer, Mars capture, and mission orbits are described. Finally, the main navigation schemes are summarized.

you can download the pdf from researchgate https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318234916_Overview_of_China%27s_2020_Mars_Mission_Design_and_Navigation
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 07/28/2020 12:02 pm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 07/28/2020 12:17 pm
And:

Amateur observers using radio and confirmation from visual observers have made some observations of Tianwen 1.

https://destevez.net/2020/07/tracking-tianwen-1s-orbit-to-mars/

https://destevez.net/2020/07/tracking-tianwen-1s-orbit-to-mars-part-ii/
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 07/28/2020 01:34 pm
Earth and Moon startracker image
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1288071445680201729
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Liss on 07/28/2020 01:49 pm
And an official report on imaging:

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-07/28/c_139246708.htm

Quote
China's Mars probe photographs Earth and Moon
Source: Xinhua | 2020-07-28 20:49:56 | Editor: huaxia

BEIJING, July 28 (Xinhua) -- China's Mars probe, Tianwen-1, captured images of the Earth and Moon, about 1.2 million kilometers from Earth, the China National Space Administration said on Tuesday.

China launched its first Mars mission Tianwen-1, which means Questions to Heaven, on July 23, marking the country's first step in planetary exploration of the solar system.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 07/31/2020 05:19 am
TCM-1

https://twitter.com/r2x0t/status/1288878583226793984
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 08/01/2020 02:41 pm
has any of our Chinese speakers tried to translate the 29 slide screen grabs at the bottom of this SFF page?
http://www.spaceflightfans.cn/event/cz-5-yz-2_yh-2?instance_id=3501
even with my limited Chinese (I've started to learn a bit of it as my covid lockdown project) I can see that there are fairly interesting information, including (if I understand correctly) plans for the first sols on the surface of Mars (slide 18)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 08/02/2020 03:40 am
China's Mars probe completes first orbital correction

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-08/02/c_139258407.htm

BEIJING, Aug. 2 (Xinhua) -- China's Mars probe Tianwen-1 successfully carried out its first orbital correction Sunday morning, according to the China National Space Administration (CNSA).

The probe conducted the orbital correction at 7 a.m. (Beijing Time) after its 3000N engine worked for 20 seconds, and continued to head for Mars. All the systems of the probe were in good condition.

Before the orbital correction, the Mars probe had traveled more than 230 hours in space, and was about 3 million km away from the Earth.

The operation also tested the performance of the 3000N engine. The probe will undergo several orbital corrections in a more than six-month journey to Mars, said the CNSA source.

China launched the Mars probe on July 23, designed to complete orbiting, landing and roving in one mission, taking the first step in its planetary exploration of the solar system.

The Mars probe is expected to reach the red planet around February 2021. After entering the orbit, it will spend another two to three months surveying the candidate landing sites before landing.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 08/02/2020 04:47 am
has any of our Chinese speakers tried to translate the 29 slide screen grabs at the bottom of this SFF page?
http://www.spaceflightfans.cn/event/cz-5-yz-2_yh-2?instance_id=3501
even with my limited Chinese (I've started to learn a bit of it as my covid lockdown project) I can see that there are fairly interesting information, including (if I understand correctly) plans for the first sols on the surface of Mars (slide 18)

I’ll try to translate it within the next week when I have time.

For slide 18 it says that the rover will perform initial sensing of the landing site on Sol 1, first movement on Sol 2 and first scientific operations on Sol 3. It also says that future planning of the rover mission will be on a 6-Sol cycle due to power cycle considerations.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 08/02/2020 07:47 am

For slide 18 it says that the rover will perform initial sensing of the landing site on Sol 1, first movement on Sol 2 and first scientific operations on Sol 3.

great, I got Sol 1 etc right. thanks for confirming that my very basic Chinese is not that bad... :D
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 09/12/2020 05:09 am
China's Mars probe travels 137 mln km

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-09/12/c_139363006.htm

BEIJING, Sept. 12 (Xinhua) -- China's Mars probe Tianwen-1 has traveled 137 million km, said sources with the Lunar Exploration and Space Program Center of the China National Space Administration.

As of 9 a.m. Friday, the probe was in stable condition at a distance of more than 15.3 million km away from Earth, according to a center statement.

The probe captured a photo of Earth and the moon in late July, and completed its first mid-course orbital correction in early August.

China launched the Mars probe on July 23, kicking off the country's independent planetary exploration mission. The spacecraft, consisting of an orbiter, a lander and a rover, is expected to reach the red planet around February 2021.

When arriving at Mars, the probe will be about 195 million km from Earth with an actual flight distance of 470 million km, said the center.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 10/10/2020 12:42 pm
the latest issue of Scientia Sinica Technologica has a few papers (in Chinese) on TW-1
https://engine.scichina.com/publisher/scp/journal/SST/50/9?slug=browse
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 10/10/2020 06:07 pm
China's Mars probe completes deep-space maneuver

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-10/09/c_139429022.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 11/17/2020 05:29 am
China's Mars probe travels over 300 million km

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-11/17/c_139521534.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 12/06/2020 06:34 am
https://twitter.com/coastal8049/status/1335487110107688962

Quote
I've notice recently TIANWEN-1 is taking commercial breaks.  Part way through my pass each day over the last couple of nights the probe has stopped transmitting on 8530MHz.  Maybe QSY, but it does come back after a few 10s of minutes.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 12/09/2020 08:49 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/tech/2020-12/09/c_1126841743.htm

Web translation:

Tianwen 1 is expected to be captured by Mars around the Spring Festival
2020-12-09 17:38:59

On December 9, the research and development team of the "Tianwen-1" Mars probe of the Fifth Academy of China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation wrote the first "home letter" in the tone of "Tianwen-1". The letter stated: "Tianwen 1" is currently in good condition. It has flown nearly 350 million kilometers, about 92.5 million kilometers from the earth, and 14 million kilometers from Mars. It is expected to be captured by Mars around the Spring Festival."
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 02/03/2021 10:03 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-02/03/c_139718557.htm

BEIJING, Feb. 3 (Xinhua) -- China's Mars probe Tianwen-1 has traveled more than 450 million km and reached about 170 million km from Earth, according to the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) on Wednesday.

CASC said the probe is expected to slow down around Feb. 10, before entering the Mars orbit and preparing itself to land on the red planet.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: spacexplorer on 02/04/2021 07:53 pm
Follow Mars race in real time!

(https://discourse-data.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/original/3X/d/6/d6380ee0fbfeee44f07a147670e5650935b553c1.jpeg)
http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/3d/marsrace.html
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Sizzy on 02/05/2021 12:52 pm
Tianwen1 taken it's first Mars image

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/05/2021 01:16 pm
Note that TCM-4 was performed at 12:00 UTC today.

Annotated version of the photo:

1. Acidalia Planitia
2. Chryse Planitia
3. Sinus Meridiani
4. Schiaparelli Crater
5. Valles Marineris

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/nAwQ6wUMmIcRGi7cAZwflQ
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 02/05/2021 01:35 pm
China's Mars probe completes fourth orbital correction

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-02/05/c_139724235.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 02/05/2021 01:42 pm
https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/1357685941993955334

Quote
We have visual! Here's a first image of Mars from Tianwen-1! Source: mp.weixin.qq.com/s/qy_M1IHgzP9O… (CASC/CNSA)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: demorcef on 02/05/2021 01:42 pm
Photo released by the China National Space Administration (CNSA) shows the first image of Mars captured by Mars probe Tianwen-1 from a distance of 2.2 million km. China's Mars probe Tianwen-1 conducted its fourth orbital correction Friday night, according to the CNSA. The probe carried out the orbital correction at 8 p.m. (Beijing time), aiming to ensure that the probe achieves a sound planned rendezvous with Mars. The CNSA also said the probe had captured the first image of Mars from a distance of 2.2 million km. The probe has traveled about 197 days in orbit, flying about 465 million km. It is currently 184 million km from Earth and 1.1 million km from Mars. All probe systems are in good working condition, the CNSA said. (Xinhua)

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-02/05/c_139724235.htm

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Satori on 02/08/2021 12:17 pm
Is there somewhere any timetable for the upcoming events for Mars orbital insertion?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 02/08/2021 08:28 pm
It's a pity that information for the time for MOI for Tianwen-1 is still not released ... Still Wednesday 12:01 UTC?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: chetan_chpd on 02/09/2021 04:09 am
i think both ISRO and CNSA were/are using low res. camera
(https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/35045.0/2010511.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByssGUeCMAAqMkR?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/09/2021 06:37 am
https://mobile.twitter.com/planet4589/status/1359029613893140482
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 02/10/2021 12:03 am
i think both ISRO and CNSA were/are using low res. camera
I hope the quality of the Medium Res Camera (MRC) of CNSA is performing better in orbit. ISRO looks better at the moment. Tianwen-1's camera looks a little bit fuzzy.

Here is a nice illustration of the location of the science payloads onboard Tianwen-1 I took from an article from "Info Shymkent": https://www.shymkent.info/2021/02/08/first-spacecrafts-from-arabia-and-china-arrive-at-red-planet/ (https://www.shymkent.info/2021/02/08/first-spacecrafts-from-arabia-and-china-arrive-at-red-planet/)

You can find the MRC on the right illustration next to the High-Res Camera (HRC).





Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/10/2021 12:55 am
i think both ISRO and CNSA were/are using low res. camera
I hope the quality of the Medium Res Camera (MRC) of CNSA is performing better in orbit. ISRO looks better at the moment. Tianwen-1's camera looks a little bit fuzzy.

Here is a nice illustration of the location of the science payloads onboard Tianwen-1 I took from an article from "Info Shymkent": https://www.shymkent.info/2021/02/08/first-spacecrafts-from-arabia-and-china-arrive-at-red-planet/ (https://www.shymkent.info/2021/02/08/first-spacecrafts-from-arabia-and-china-arrive-at-red-planet/)

You can find the MRC on the right illustration next to the High-Res Camera (HRC).

Did you make a similar graphic for the rover?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 02/10/2021 12:58 am
Somewhere I read that the Mars photo we have seen was from a small monitoring camera, not the science cameras. I can't guarantee that but it makes sense in that there would be no point flying a mediocre science camera to Mars.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: spacexplorer on 02/10/2021 07:25 am
Currently planned trajectory (link (http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/3d/space-explorer-tracker.html?orbiter=-9901491&[email protected]&start=2021-02-10&stop=2021-2-10%2013:06&step=1m&3dzoom=10000&radius=3376)):
(https://discourse-data.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/original/3X/9/4/9474760551fc45bec4c1a23c4734443365cd7d3a.png)

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ace5 on 02/10/2021 07:36 am
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ace5 on 02/10/2021 07:46 am
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Liss on 02/10/2021 08:53 am
Two hours to MOI burn.

https://weibo.com/5616492130/K1iC7xUFk?from=page_1005055616492130_profile&wvr=6&mod=weibotime&type=comment#_rnd1612950710124
Quote
China航天
50分钟前
天问一号探测器将于O今晚20时前后 ,实施近火制动, 进入火星轨道。截至今日17时00分, 天问一号距离火星只有约5万公里。
China Aerospace
50 minutes ago
The Tianwen-1 probe will implement near-fire braking around 20 o'clock tonight and enter Mars orbit. As of 17:00 today, Tianwen-1 is only about 50,000 kilometers away from Mars.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: spacexplorer on 02/10/2021 08:57 am
Currently planned trajectory (link (http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/3d/space-explorer-tracker.html?orbiter=-9901491&[email protected]&start=2021-02-10&stop=2021-2-10%2013:06&step=1m&3dzoom=10000&radius=3376)):
(https://discourse-data.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/original/3X/9/4/9474760551fc45bec4c1a23c4734443365cd7d3a.png)

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/10/2021 09:10 am
Orbit parameters, and comparison with yesterday's Emirati MOI:

https://twitter.com/ea4gpz/status/1359433357759766530

Burn expected to last just under 15 minutes.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hoku on 02/10/2021 09:13 am
Two hours to MOI burn.

https://weibo.com/5616492130/K1iC7xUFk?from=page_1005055616492130_profile&wvr=6&mod=weibotime&type=comment#_rnd1612950710124
Quote
China航天
50分钟前
天问一号探测器将于O今晚20时前后 ,实施近火制动, 进入火星轨道。截至今日17时00分, 天问一号距离火星只有约5万公里。
China Aerospace
50 minutes ago
The Tianwen-1 probe will implement near-fire braking around 20 o'clock tonight and enter Mars orbit. As of 17:00 today, Tianwen-1 is only about 50,000 kilometers away from Mars.
Based on the info on this site, and assuming that all quoted times are UTC+8, the timeline for the Mars orbit insertion burn of the Tianwen-1 probe is

11:52:30 UTC start of Mars orbit insertion burn
12:02:42 UTC enter communication blackout
12:08:12 UTC end of Mars orbit insertion burn
12:37:02 UTC midst of communication blackout
12:58:24 UTC resume communication, signal should arrive on Earth 641 seconds later, thus outcome of Mars orbit insertion burn will only be known after 13h UTC
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Hungry4info3 on 02/10/2021 11:04 am
Doppler shift indicates the burn has started.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Mammutti on 02/10/2021 11:24 am
Tianwen-1 live from Mars at 20m Antenna Bochum-Observatory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1myQ5tIig0w
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/10/2021 11:25 am
https://twitter.com/ea4gpz/status/1359476158715289605?s=19
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: edzieba on 02/10/2021 11:48 am
Carrier has reappeared!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 02/10/2021 12:01 pm
If I'm reading this correctly, Tianwen1 is almost certainly in Mars orbit as it reappeared from behind the planet at the expected time post-orbit insertion.  But the details of the orbit are still forthcoming.  So... that's arrival success... yes?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Liss on 02/10/2021 12:01 pm
https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4603158003717144

Quote
刚刚,中国首次火星探测任务天问一号探测器实施近火捕获制动,环绕器3000N轨控发动机点火工作约15分钟,探测器顺利进入环火轨道,成为#我国第一颗人造火星卫星#,实现“绕、着,巡”第一步“绕”的目标,环绕火星获得成功!中国航天加油!(总台央视记者崔霞 王世玉 李宁 李厦 陶嘉树 黄宝池 吴天白)
Just now, China’s first Mars exploration mission, the Tianwen-1 probe, implemented the near-Mars capture brake. The 3000N orbital control engine of the orbiter ignited for about 15 minutes. The probe successfully entered the circular fire orbit and became my country’s first artificial Mars satellite. "Go around, around, patrol" The first step of "around" the goal, orbiting Mars is a success! Come on, China Aerospace! (CCTV reporter Cui Xia Wang Shiyu Li Ning Li Xia Tao Jiashu Huang Baochi Wu Tianbai)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: AstroWare on 02/10/2021 12:03 pm
https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1359486876495663109?s=20

#BREAKING China's first Mars probe Tianwen-1 has successfully entered the orbit of the red planet after a crucial “brake” to decelerate and be captured by Mars gravity, according to #CNSA.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/10/2021 12:04 pm
Xinhua confirms!

Congratulations China on another huge first!

2/3

https://mobile.twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1359487746008440835 (https://mobile.twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1359487746008440835)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/10/2021 12:19 pm
Forward plans:
https://twitter.com/PRCMarsRover/status/1358403478284947459

Meanwhile, red screen of success!

https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1359490712786460673
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Welsh Dragon on 02/10/2021 01:27 pm
The inclination change is interesting. It'll probably be pretty cheap in term of delta-v an apogee in a eccentric orbit, but why not insert over the poles so to speak? (Reminds me of when I screw up my approch in Kerbal...)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/10/2021 03:17 pm
The inclination change is interesting. It'll probably be pretty cheap in term of delta-v an apogee in a eccentric orbit, but why not insert over the poles so to speak? (Reminds me of when I screw up my approch in Kerbal...)

Haven't been able to find a clear rationale, but Mars Express did something similar in 2003:

http://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Mars_Express/Mars_Express_scheduled_orbit_change
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Xentry on 02/10/2021 03:28 pm
The inclination change is interesting. It'll probably be pretty cheap in term of delta-v an apogee in a eccentric orbit, but why not insert over the poles so to speak? (Reminds me of when I screw up my approch in Kerbal...)

Haven't been able to find a clear rationale, but Mars Express did something similar in 2003:

http://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Mars_Express/Mars_Express_scheduled_orbit_change

Mars Express needed to first enter a low-inclination orbit because just prior to arrival it had to deliver the Beagle2 probe to a specific, near-equatorial location.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: shijiav on 02/10/2021 04:15 pm
The inclination change is interesting. It'll probably be pretty cheap in term of delta-v an apogee in a eccentric orbit, but why not insert over the poles so to speak? (Reminds me of when I screw up my approch in Kerbal...)
It won`t be cheap in terms of delta-v, in fact it needs more delta-v comparing to straight pole insertion.
I'm sure they doing this is because it`s a safe plan, in the case of main engine ignition failure (TW-1 only have a huge main engine) the current inclination change plan should have a chance to give TW-1 a second try.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: newfrontiers on 02/11/2021 04:28 am
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/11/2021 08:03 am
Some new CGTN infographics, and a dramatic video full of nice (presumably accurate) details like slews, sequences in thruster firings -including showing in a cool animation the propellant for the main engine settling at the beginning of the MOI burn- and orbital transitions.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9JUIWM5mmI
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Starship_SpaceX on 02/11/2021 10:01 am
It was mentioned in the news that the landing will be 100 days later, so landing on 5.21
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Welsh Dragon on 02/11/2021 11:06 am
The inclination change is interesting. It'll probably be pretty cheap in term of delta-v an apogee in a eccentric orbit, but why not insert over the poles so to speak? (Reminds me of when I screw up my approch in Kerbal...)
It won`t be cheap in terms of delta-v, in fact it needs more delta-v comparing to straight pole insertion.
I'm sure they doing this is because it`s a safe plan, in the case of main engine ignition failure (TW-1 only have a huge main engine) the current inclination change plan should have a chance to give TW-1 a second try.
Of course, but it will be cheaper to do it now, at apogee in a highly elliptical initial orbit, than it would be to do it later on in a more circular orbit. That was my point, which I didn't make clear enough.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: spacexplorer on 02/11/2021 01:54 pm
Some new CGTN infographics,
What do they mean by "human missions"?!?  :o
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: yoram on 02/11/2021 02:32 pm
Some new CGTN infographics,
What do they mean by "human missions"?!?  :o

Mars missions by all of humanity (as opposed to just China)

Not manned.
 
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/12/2021 08:18 am
Two low-res videos from engineering monitoring cameras that make the imagination fly:

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1360149027342458881

You can actually see the atmospheric limb, some craters pass by, the S/C slew and shake (probably mostly AOCS action rather than actual shaking)...
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: JonAl on 02/13/2021 10:26 am
I was expecting Mars to be reddish. Is that white color natural or is it an over-exposure of the camera?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: 4throck on 02/13/2021 02:49 pm
Looks white due to overexposure and auto color balance.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: shijiav on 02/13/2021 03:36 pm
So this means we can expect a full time lapse of mars landing video footage (similar to CE3&4) if the landing success?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Hungry4info3 on 02/13/2021 04:06 pm
No. This camera is on the orbiter. The lander is enveloped in a heat shield and aeroshell.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/13/2021 04:54 pm
I was expecting Mars to be reddish. Is that white color natural or is it an over-exposure of the camera?

Reprocessed and color-corrected images. Note Martian color is much less saturated (especially from orbit) than most images out there, which are enhanced color or even colorized.

https://mobile.twitter.com/landru79/status/1360305890386194432
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 02/13/2021 08:51 pm
I was expecting Mars to be reddish. Is that white color natural or is it an over-exposure of the camera?

As others have said, it is a combination of many technical factors, not least enhanced colour saturation.  The view is similar to that achieved during the Rosetta Mars flyby.

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap070301.html

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ugordan on 02/14/2021 11:15 am
The view is similar to that achieved during the Rosetta Mars flyby.

That was a colorized b/w image.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/14/2021 04:05 pm
Chinese official sources have confirmed that the orbit inclination change burn will be performed tomorrow, February 15. (https://t.co/iGyYTvV6jO?amp=1)

Official sources haven't give out the time; amateur radio tracking shows it to be around ~14:10 UTC +- 1 hour:

https://twitter.com/coastal8049/status/1360843588687421441
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 02/15/2021 09:54 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-02/15/c_139744513.htm

China's Tianwen-1 probe performs orbital adjustment around Mars
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/15/2021 12:42 pm
Nice easy-to-follow mathematical derivation of the polar plane change maneuver (FYI there are some revised details at the bottom since the dry mass was not correct in the initial post):

https://destevez.net/2021/02/tianwen-1-plane-change-planning/

Interesting to see the S/C lingers at apoareon for so long that the trajectory deviation from a finite burn (of only 153 s on the other hand) is indistinguishable from an instantaneous one.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 02/16/2021 02:29 am
The view is similar to that achieved during the Rosetta Mars flyby.

That was a colorized b/w image.

Evidence?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 02/16/2021 07:03 am
The image was taken by CIVA, the imager on the lander (rather, one of the imaging systems on the lander).   It was a visible light camera system with 7 mini-cameras which produced the panoramic view of the landing site.  Another imager provided IR data for compositional analysis.  As far as I can tell (I'm not finding a clear statement to this effect) it was a monochrome system.  Certainly all the images I can find from it are B/W except this Mars image.  So yes, I think it was colorized. 
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 02/18/2021 03:38 am
The image was taken by CIVA, the imager on the lander (rather, one of the imaging systems on the lander).   It was a visible light camera system with 7 mini-cameras which produced the panoramic view of the landing site.  Another imager provided IR data for compositional analysis.  As far as I can tell (I'm not finding a clear statement to this effect) it was a monochrome system.  Certainly all the images I can find from it are B/W except this Mars image.  So yes, I think it was colorized.

Thanks.  However the similar lack of contrast in the Mars image is still relevant (perhaps)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Satori on 02/18/2021 03:08 pm
Is there any image of the planet after orbital insertion?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/20/2021 02:28 am
Is there any image of the planet after orbital insertion?

I don’t see any official updates with photos since the two Mars videos.

The first orbit apoapsis reduction burn to 265 x 60000 km x 86.9 deg. “reconnaissance orbit” can happen later today based on orbit periods.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/20/2021 09:48 am
Will attempt to follow live here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/amsatdl/status/1363073469324398595
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/20/2021 04:29 pm
Note that in the radio signal observation of the previous post the switching of the spacecraft to using Low Gain Antenna, and then back to High Gain Antenna was observed.

However no official news has been reported till now.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/23/2021 07:43 am
https://destevez.net/2021/02/tianwen-1-phasing-orbit/

Quote
The apoapsis radius of this 2 sidereal day orbit is 61217 km (giving an apoapsis altitude of 57821 km), while the periapsis has an altitude of 282 km (logically, still close to the 280 km we started with on Saturday). Therefore, some care should be taken when quoting this as a 265 x 60000 km orbit. That can be slightly misleading, as it is not clear if 60000 km refers to the apoapsis radius or altitude.

To summarize, in this post we have shown that it is very likely that the purpose of the current orbit is to pass over the landing site at next periapsis on 2021-02-23 22:31:37 UTC. Then a burn would lower the apoapsis further to obtain an orbit with a period of 2 sidereal days that has a repeating ground track passing over the landing site.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Satori on 02/23/2021 08:53 pm
Looks like Tianwen-1 started its attitude adjustment for another orbital maneuver.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Satori on 02/23/2021 09:02 pm
According to AMSAT-DL AMSAT Deutschland the s​witch from HGA to LGA occurred at 21:37:40UTC and the ​signal vanished at 21:48:40UTC due to attitude change for the burn.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Satori on 02/23/2021 09:08 pm
Tianwen-1 will pass periapsis at 22:31:37UTC. At this time a burn is expected to lower apoapsis and get an orbit with a period of 2 sidereal days that has a repeating ground track passing over the landing site.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Satori on 02/23/2021 10:24 pm
Looks like it was a successful burn for TW-1!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/24/2021 12:17 am
Chinese official media has confirmed the successful burn with TW-1 now entered the planned 2-sol period (280 x 59000 km) "reconnaissance orbit" where the orbiter/lander will stay in the next 3 Earth months mapping the lander/rover landing zone & other observations ahead of the NET May landing.

https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4608050801935365
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 02/24/2021 07:40 am
Extending the envelope:

https://mobile.twitter.com/coastal8049/status/1364449963514548231
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ugordan on 02/27/2021 11:34 am
The image was taken by CIVA, the imager on the lander (rather, one of the imaging systems on the lander).   It was a visible light camera system with 7 mini-cameras which produced the panoramic view of the landing site.  Another imager provided IR data for compositional analysis.  As far as I can tell (I'm not finding a clear statement to this effect) it was a monochrome system.  Certainly all the images I can find from it are B/W except this Mars image.  So yes, I think it was colorized.

Thanks.  However the similar lack of contrast in the Mars image is still relevant (perhaps)

Yes, contrast is virtually always increased on images of most planetary bodies other than Earth because when it comes to albedo variations, Earth is actually a standout.

Here's an actual color image of Mars taken by Rosetta's primary camera and without contrast enhancement. If you look closely, you might also spot Phobos hanging in there somewhere as well as its shadow on the surface.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 03/02/2021 05:55 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-03/02/c_139777663.htm

Three candidate names for China's Mars rover come out after global poll
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 03/04/2021 01:12 am
Three photos from the Orbiter has just been released, the North Pole color photo by the Medium Resolution Camera & the other 2 (location not specified) by the High Resolution Camera.

The article stated that the HRC panchromatic photos were taken at 330-350 km altitude at 0.7 m resolution. The big crater in the last photo is ~620 m in diameter.

I wonder if it's possible to nail down where the last two photos are from...

Source: CASC (https://weibo.com/5386897742/K4AVS2zt8)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/04/2021 03:22 am
The small cones in the middle image are almost certainly in Isidis - it's full of them - or nearby parts of Utopia.  The other high res image could be almost anywhere but is most likely to be close to the other image.

EDIT:  Zeng Xingguo  says they are in Utopia.

EDIT 2:  The location with the small cones is at 24.74 N, 110.17 E
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: JonAl on 03/04/2021 05:06 pm
With that resolution Perseverance would be around, a pixel?
Is it possible that they publish a picture of it in future or would it be considered “politically nosy”?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 03/05/2021 01:15 am
With that resolution Perseverance would be around, a pixel?
Is it possible that they publish a picture of it in future or would it be considered “politically nosy”?

roughly 2 X 5 pixels.

Why would taking a picture be nosy?  MRO has taken pictures of others' hardware on Mars and LRO on the Moon.  Why should Tianwen not do they same?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: JonAl on 03/06/2021 08:52 am
With that resolution Perseverance would be around, a pixel?
Is it possible that they publish a picture of it in future or would it be considered “politically nosy”?

roughly 2 X 5 pixels.

Why would taking a picture be nosy?  MRO has taken pictures of others' hardware on Mars and LRO on the Moon.  Why should Tianwen not do they same?
Of course they will take it, just for calibration or maping purposes. I'm just asking if publish them would be understood. Don't want to start a discussion here, but press and media, so more interested in gossiping than science, may show it more like  being "spied" or China nosyness, which Chinese may not want. (you know, the press guys)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 03/06/2021 03:12 pm
With that resolution Perseverance would be around, a pixel?
Is it possible that they publish a picture of it in future or would it be considered “politically nosy”?

roughly 2 X 5 pixels.

Why would taking a picture be nosy?  MRO has taken pictures of others' hardware on Mars and LRO on the Moon.  Why should Tianwen not do they same?
Of course they will take it, just for calibration or maping purposes. I'm just asking if publish them would be understood. Don't want to start a discussion here, but press and media, so more interested in gossiping than science, may show it more like  being "spied" or China nosyness, which Chinese may not want. (you know, the press guys)

Doubt that would happen - LRO has been taking photos of the Chang'e landers on the Moon for a long time and the Chinese are very happy to see their hardware being snapped photos by the US, the same would happen for MRO and TW-1. And as someone who have been following their own spaceflight forums I can assure you that they are probably more sensitive to such matters than the typical US space enthusiast and they are actually happy with photos taken; why would the US press be even bother with this?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: newfrontiers on 03/08/2021 04:45 am
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 03/13/2021 05:38 am


Where did you get these nice images from?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Mammutti on 03/23/2021 09:38 pm
https://twitter.com/Free_Space/status/1374486140099563532

Quote from: Irene Klotz
China’s Mars rover due to attempt landing in mid-May--Chi Wang, director-general of China's NSSC says during 3/23 National Academies' Space Science Week panel. "We are open to international cooperation and the data will be available publicly soon," he said.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 03/26/2021 09:58 am
Some new long-range images:

http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n6758823/n6758838/c6811448/content.html
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 03/26/2021 12:49 pm
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-03/26/c_139838397.htm

China releases new images of Mars from Tianwen-1 probe
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: JulesVerneATV on 03/30/2021 12:13 am
These links are related in a ways to the current space program, in other threads we have posts where they talk about a manned direct to Mars mission. Robert Zubrin style?

Their websites and media have been following other NASA spacecraft and other Martian missions
http://tech.sina.com.cn/d/s/2017-11-16/doc-ifynvxeh5043400.shtml

http://www.china.org.cn/china/2013-05/21/content_28883472.htm
,
http://tech.sina.com.cn/d/2006-03-28/0856879718.shtml

Talk of a manned mission

The undertaking will confront enormous challenges. The journey could “take more than 500 days,” according to Pang, and might not come to fruition before 2050. And then there are other threats, like “the decrease of bone mineral density, space radiation and mental health,” Pang added.
https://futurism.com/the-byte/china-plans-send-astronauts-mars

Scientists have been making preparations for the country's manned lunar missions, including the establishment of a manned scientific outpost, according to the nation's leading space contractor, China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp.

The company said the ultimate goal of China's lunar expeditions is to lay the scientific and technological foundations for manned missions to Mars.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201911/05/WS5dc07e79a310cf3e355755d1.html

,
Photo of atmospheric limb of Mars https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1375401463682306051 , Chinese web forum https://9ifly.spacety.com/thread-93048-121-1.html Hi 火星 literal translation Hello 'Fire+Planet'

' the longest canyon, The Mariner Valley, are clearly visible.'
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: newfrontiers on 04/06/2021 10:16 am
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/08/2021 02:10 pm
In typical Chinese fashion, the very first hint of a possible landing date for the lander/rover comes from...one passing sentence of a certain insider on a Chinese forum.

May 17 it looks like it is. (https://9ifly.spacety.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=94560&pid=822746&fromuid=19646)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/24/2021 02:54 am
Rover officially now named “Zhurong” after the Chinese mythology’s god of fire.

https://twitter.com/PRCMarsRover/status/1385788923582902275
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: limen4 on 05/03/2021 09:00 pm
I received the message from two independent sources in China, that landing is planned for May 15th and exploration by rover will start on May 22nd.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: CuddlyRocket on 05/03/2021 10:15 pm
I received the message from two independent sources in China, that landing is planned for May 15th and exploration by rover will start on May 22nd.

Thanks for the heads-up; I'll keep an eye out for it! :)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: newfrontiers on 05/04/2021 11:58 am
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/13/2021 04:47 am
Time to wake up! A Mars rover, a red one in fact, is landing tomorrow!

https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1392701561030123521?s=19

The reported landing time fits perfectly with amateur radio observations of TW-1's current orbit and time of periapsis passage.

https://twitter.com/df2mz/status/1391876766294331395?s=19
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Star One on 05/13/2021 08:59 am
Article covering news of the expected landing tomorrow.

https://www.cnet.com/news/chinas-tianwen-1-set-to-attempt-mars-rover-landing-on-friday/
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/13/2021 01:53 pm
EDL Timeline:

(source (https://9ifly.spacety.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=94560&pid=837398&fromuid=19646): Vony/9ifly forum, detailed numbers are from his own internal sources)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tolis on 05/13/2021 02:07 pm
Hmm, apparently the entire spacecraft complex will head for atmospheric entry, the orbiter will perform a divert maneuver to go back into orbit following entry module separation. Risky.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/13/2021 03:00 pm
Hmm, apparently the entire spacecraft complex will head for atmospheric entry, the orbiter will perform a divert maneuver to go back into orbit following entry module separation. Risky.

Yes, but note it's doing so at close to apoaeron in its very elliptical orbit (27700 km): it will take the stack around 5h to fall down to periaeron, whether it be the 50 km needed for the capsule to enter the atmosphere or the safe 265 km for the orbiter. Too lazy to calculate the dV needed for such a maneuver, but I suspect it's not much. Far less risky than MOI.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: spacexplorer on 05/13/2021 05:34 pm
Hmm, apparently the entire spacecraft complex will head for atmospheric entry, the orbiter will perform a divert maneuver to go back into orbit following entry module separation. Risky.
Why do you think that? I see a standard entry.
The only strange part is cruise stage being below the landing capsule.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: spacexplorer on 05/13/2021 05:50 pm
https://youtu.be/Ihr9SMiGIJg?t=32
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tolis on 05/13/2021 07:05 pm
Hmm, apparently the entire spacecraft complex will head for atmospheric entry, the orbiter will perform a divert maneuver to go back into orbit following entry module separation. Risky.
Why do you think that? I see a standard entry.
The only strange part is cruise stage being below the landing capsule.


The diagram depicts a propulsive event *before* orbiter / entry module separation. There would be no need for that
unless the EM had no propulsive capability of its own and needs the orbiter's propulsion system to
target it to the atmospheric entry aim point. But I could be wrong.
 
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: spacexplorer on 05/14/2021 09:51 am
Tianwen chinese name:  天問一号 (https://www.google.com/search?q=天問一号)
Rover chinese name: Zurong (Chinese:  祝融 (https://www.google.com/search?q=祝融+行进)), also known as Chongli (Chinese:  重黎 (https://www.google.com/search?q=重黎+行进)),
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/14/2021 09:51 am
CNSA has finally woke up (http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n6758823/n6758838/c6811999/content.html) and issued a very brief statement confirming that the landing is currently planned "between early morning May 15 to May 19 BJT". This hints at the additional landing windows at periapsis May 17/19 UTC should the need arises.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/14/2021 09:53 am
Hmm, apparently the entire spacecraft complex will head for atmospheric entry, the orbiter will perform a divert maneuver to go back into orbit following entry module separation. Risky.
Why do you think that? I see a standard entry.
The only strange part is cruise stage being below the landing capsule.


The diagram depicts a propulsive event *before* orbiter / entry module separation. There would be no need for that
unless the EM had no propulsive capability of its own and needs the orbiter's propulsion system to
target it to the atmospheric entry aim point
. But I could be wrong.

I believe this is correct.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/14/2021 10:24 am
The landing scheme diagram is a little bit strange. The parachute deploy and heat shield jettison at a height of around four kilometres is a little bit late. Another time schedule is mentioning the deploy at 10 kilometres above martian surface:
https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/ (https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 05/14/2021 12:29 pm
The diagram depicts a propulsive event *before* orbiter / entry module separation. There would be no need for that
unless the EM had no propulsive capability of its own and needs the orbiter's propulsion system to
target it to the atmospheric entry aim point. But I could be wrong.
 

As somebody pointed out to me, this is actually not uncommon. For instance, Galileo did it with its atmosphere probe.

It might seem riskier, but if you think out the whole issue, it isn't--if you choose instead to add a second propulsion system, that system can fail, and you now have to test two propulsion systems, not one, adding complexity. Also, the propulsion system on the mother spacecraft either works or it doesn't, and if it doesn't work the first time, both spacecraft are doomed, so it's not really adding much risk if it doesn't work the second time.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tolis on 05/14/2021 12:48 pm
The diagram depicts a propulsive event *before* orbiter / entry module separation. There would be no need for that
unless the EM had no propulsive capability of its own and needs the orbiter's propulsion system to
target it to the atmospheric entry aim point. But I could be wrong.
 

As somebody pointed out to me, this is actually not uncommon. For instance, Galileo did it with its atmosphere probe.

It might seem riskier, but if you think out the whole issue, it isn't--if you choose instead to add a second propulsion system, that system can fail, and you now have to test two propulsion systems, not one, adding complexity. Also, the propulsion system on the mother spacecraft either works or it doesn't, and if it doesn't work the first time, both spacecraft are doomed, so it's not really adding much risk if it doesn't work the second time.

Blackstar, I take your point about adding risk by adding complexity.On your second point I was actually thinking that Tianwen 1 could do a Viking where the EM carried its own deorbit propulsion system, so there would be no need for the orbiter to fire its engine at all - it would remain safely in orbit.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 05/14/2021 12:58 pm
The diagram depicts a propulsive event *before* orbiter / entry module separation. There would be no need for that
unless the EM had no propulsive capability of its own and needs the orbiter's propulsion system to
target it to the atmospheric entry aim point. But I could be wrong.
 

As somebody pointed out to me, this is actually not uncommon. For instance, Galileo did it with its atmosphere probe.

It might seem riskier, but if you think out the whole issue, it isn't--if you choose instead to add a second propulsion system, that system can fail, and you now have to test two propulsion systems, not one, adding complexity. Also, the propulsion system on the mother spacecraft either works or it doesn't, and if it doesn't work the first time, both spacecraft are doomed, so it's not really adding much risk if it doesn't work the second time.

Blackstar, I take your point about adding risk by adding complexity.On your second point I was actually thinking that Tianwen 1 could do a Viking where the EM carried its own deorbit propulsion system, so there would be no need for the orbiter to fire its engine at all - it would remain safely in orbit.


Yeah, it could. The point is that this is not inherently less risky. It adds complexity (two systems instead of one), and complexity adds risk.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/14/2021 01:42 pm
And of course - weight!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 05/14/2021 02:19 pm
China's Tianwen-1 probe to land on Mars

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-05/14/c_139946146.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: TGMetsFan98 on 05/14/2021 04:12 pm
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)

https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: leovinus on 05/14/2021 04:26 pm
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)

https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)

"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jbenton on 05/14/2021 04:48 pm
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)

https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)

"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?

It's pretty common for folks not to count that one - because it failed so quickly. It would be more precise to say that "China is trying to be the 2nd nation to land a rover on Mars.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Jeff Lerner on 05/14/2021 04:53 pm
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)

https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)

"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?

It's pretty common for folks not to count that one - because it failed so quickly. It would be more precise to say that "China is trying to be the 2nd nation to land a rover on Mars.

Perhaps “land successfully “ on Mars would be more appropriate.?.there was Beagle 2...
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/14/2021 04:58 pm
2nd nation to get a functional spacecraft on Mars maybe? It's going to be extremely hard-pressed to call Mars 3 or Beagle 2 any way close to functional.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/14/2021 04:58 pm
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)

"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?

It's pretty common for folks not to count that one - because it failed so quickly. It would be more precise to say that "China is trying to be the 2nd nation to land a rover on Mars.

That's equivalent to not counting, say, Pioneer 4 as the US' first BEO mission because it overflew the Moon at more distance than planned, or Gemini-8 as the first on-orbit docking between two spacecraft because of the well known attitude issues that caused it to abort the mission shortly thereafter. It shouldn't be "common to skip it" without at least a sizeable footnote clarifying what is meant.

By the way, the "1st rover landing" qualifier doesn't work either, as Mars 3 also carried a rover - which didn't get a chance to work because of the lander's premature failure. But the exceedingly difficult feat of becoming the first spacecraft to safely, softly land on Mars cannot be understated regardless of how well the post-landing surface mission proceeded. There currently have been two countries/organizations that have so far entered, descended and landed safely on Mars, and tonight there'll hopefully be a third one.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 05/14/2021 04:59 pm
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)

https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)

"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?

Have to point out that it's a statement made by the author of the article. The Chinese officials didn't claim it is targeting to become 2nd or 3rd nation in their propaganda so far. All their announcements said was "Tianwen-1 will attempt to land on Mars".

But I am pretty curious about how would they rank themselves if the landing does succeed.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ace5 on 05/14/2021 05:00 pm
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)

https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)

"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?

It's pretty common for folks not to count that one - because it failed so quickly. It would be more precise to say that "China is trying to be the 2nd nation to land a rover on Mars.

Perhaps “land successfully “ on Mars would be more appropriate.?.there was Beagle 2...

Soviet Union landed PrOP-M rover on Mars-3 lander in 1971 - but it failed to be deployed on martian surface
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: leovinus on 05/14/2021 05:04 pm
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)

https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)

"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?

It's pretty common for folks not to count that one - because it failed so quickly. It would be more precise to say that "China is trying to be the 2nd nation to land a rover on Mars.

Thanks for clarifying but that it still seems pretty arbitrary to leave out Mars 3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_3). Its twin Mars 2 crash landed on Mars and I can see how to discount that one. However, Mars3 did cross the finish line with a soft landing on Mars, and did transmit an image part, and also had a rover on board named Prop-M (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_3#Prop-M_Rover). There did not get to point of deploying the rover unfortunately. As missions to Mars as so hard, personally, I would have added a few lines in the article on the Soviet Union missions to Mars for context, and count China as 3rd nation to attempt a soft landing.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ccdengr on 05/14/2021 05:15 pm
Mars3... did transmit an image part...
Opinions vary as to whether Mars3 was transmitting valid image data or garbage.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/14/2021 05:37 pm
Soviet Union landed PrOP-M rover on Mars-3 lander in 1971 - but it failed to be deployed on martian surface
But it was more a sledge than a rover - or a walking robot.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Elvis in Space on 05/14/2021 05:53 pm
Soviet Union landed PrOP-M rover on Mars-3 lander in 1971 - but it failed to be deployed on martian surface
But it was more a sledge than a rover - or a walking robot.

Regardless of how we classify previous attempts - This will hopefully make China the second nation to land a successful productive spacecraft on Mars as opposed to just hitting a target.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/14/2021 06:22 pm
Radio signals of Tianwen-1 recevied after the spacecraft performed is first burn to bring the lander into a trajectory 50km above the Mars ground.
https://twitter.com/infoshymkent/status/1393269633684283392 (https://twitter.com/infoshymkent/status/1393269633684283392)

So landing will occur tonight  8)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jbenton on 05/14/2021 06:52 pm
So landing will occur tonight  8)

Do we have an idea of what time? Last I heard yesterday it was something like 16:00 US Pacific Time (where I live).
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ChrisC on 05/14/2021 07:16 pm
So landing will occur tonight  8)
Do we have an idea of what time? Last I heard yesterday it was something like 16:00 US Pacific Time (where I live).

Read this article please, or even just the tweet.  If you don't know how to convert UTC to your local time, now is a great time to start :)

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)

https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ugordan on 05/14/2021 07:20 pm
Read this article please, or even just the tweet.  If you don't know how to convert UTC to your local time, now is a great time to start :)

Do we know if that predicted landing time is SCET or ERT?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/14/2021 07:40 pm
Here is a nice timetable with the timing. The first event already happend 1h 47min ago:
TimeEvent
– 5 hours (~ 6 pm UTC)277.000 km above Mars the Tianwen-1 spacecraft will perform the last maneuver by lowering the orbit to about a height of 50 km above the planned landing site.
– 5 min (~ 11 pm UTC)Separation of the Lander section from Tianwen-1 at around 150 km above Mars. The Tianwen-1 spacecraft is performing another maneuver to not dip to deep into the martian atmosphere.
+/- 0 secLanding capsule entering the Mars atmosphere at around 125 km above the Mars surface with a velocity of 4.8 km/s.
+ 1 min 40 secMaximum heat on the heat shield of the lander at around 40 km above Mars.
+ 4 min 44 secParachute deploy at around 10 km above martian surface. The lander has a speed of 460 m/s.
+ 5 min 10 secHeat shield separation. The lander is flying with a speed of 250 m/s to the ground. Lander radar and camera is searching to detect the area of the final landing site.
+ 6 min 10 secSeparation between lander and parachute at around 1000 meters above the surface. The lander is starting to fire its landing engines and is flying to the target landing zone.
+ 6 min 50 secThe lander reduced with the landing engines its speed close to zero and is performing now the last landing correction to land on the correct landing site.
+ 7 min 30 secThe legs recognize contact with the ground. The landing engines stop working. Landing completed in Utopia Planitia.

I took it from here: https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/#timetable (https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/#timetable)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jcm on 05/14/2021 08:59 pm
Here is a nice timetable with the timing. The first event already happend 1h 47min ago:
TimeEvent
– 5 hours (~ 6 pm UTC)277.000 km above Mars the Tianwen-1 spacecraft will perform the last maneuver by lowering the orbit to about a height of 50 km above the planned landing site.
– 5 min (~ 11 pm UTC)Separation of the Lander section from Tianwen-1 at around 150 km above Mars. The Tianwen-1 spacecraft is performing another maneuver to not dip to deep into the martian atmosphere.
+/- 0 secLanding capsule entering the Mars atmosphere at around 125 km above the Mars surface with a velocity of 4.8 km/s.
+ 1 min 40 secMaximum heat on the heat shield of the lander at around 40 km above Mars.
+ 4 min 44 secParachute deploy at around 10 km above martian surface. The lander has a speed of 460 m/s.
+ 5 min 10 secHeat shield separation. The lander is flying with a speed of 250 m/s to the ground. Lander radar and camera is searching to detect the area of the final landing site.
+ 6 min 10 secSeparation between lander and parachute at around 1000 meters above the surface. The lander is starting to fire its landing engines and is flying to the target landing zone.
+ 6 min 50 secThe lander reduced with the landing engines its speed close to zero and is performing now the last landing correction to land on the correct landing site.
+ 7 min 30 secThe legs recognize contact with the ground. The landing engines stop working. Landing completed in Utopia Planitia.

I took it from here: https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/#timetable (https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/#timetable)

The idea that the separation manuever is so late and so low must surely be wrong - too late to do a divert burn then
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 05/14/2021 09:18 pm
Here is a nice timetable with the timing. The first event already happend 1h 47min ago:
TimeEvent
– 5 hours (~ 6 pm UTC)277.000 km above Mars the Tianwen-1 spacecraft will perform the last maneuver by lowering the orbit to about a height of 50 km above the planned landing site.
– 5 min (~ 11 pm UTC)Separation of the Lander section from Tianwen-1 at around 150 km above Mars. The Tianwen-1 spacecraft is performing another maneuver to not dip to deep into the martian atmosphere.
+/- 0 secLanding capsule entering the Mars atmosphere at around 125 km above the Mars surface with a velocity of 4.8 km/s.
+ 1 min 40 secMaximum heat on the heat shield of the lander at around 40 km above Mars.
+ 4 min 44 secParachute deploy at around 10 km above martian surface. The lander has a speed of 460 m/s.
+ 5 min 10 secHeat shield separation. The lander is flying with a speed of 250 m/s to the ground. Lander radar and camera is searching to detect the area of the final landing site.
+ 6 min 10 secSeparation between lander and parachute at around 1000 meters above the surface. The lander is starting to fire its landing engines and is flying to the target landing zone.
+ 6 min 50 secThe lander reduced with the landing engines its speed close to zero and is performing now the last landing correction to land on the correct landing site.
+ 7 min 30 secThe legs recognize contact with the ground. The landing engines stop working. Landing completed in Utopia Planitia.

I took it from here: https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/#timetable (https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/#timetable)

The idea that the separation manuever is so late and so low must surely be wrong - too late to do a divert burn then

I think the separation has completed at this moment.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/14/2021 09:28 pm
The idea that the separation manuever is so late and so low must surely be wrong - too late to do a divert burn then
Why it have to separated already? To fly close to four hours together? For me the time schedule fits well.

At the moment Tianwen-1 and lander are making communication checks. Between 10:30-11:00pm UTC will happen the separation so the Tianwen-1 separation mechanism will give the last big push by springs to the lander. At ~ 11:00pm UTC the spacecraft will roll again and fire the engine of 150 km to avoid to much of the slow down through the martian atmosphere and gain height again. So Tianwen-1 will not reach the perigee of 50 km (the trajectory which was set at 6pm UTC) and will not break apart because of high force through high speed and thin atmosphere. Later at the apogee Tianwen-1 will correct the perigee again to 265 km to perform again in its science orbit. A indicator of a slow down at the atmosphere is for me also the planned change of the perigee of Tianwen-1 from 27.700 km (before landing attempt) down to 15.000km (after landing attempt).
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ugordan on 05/14/2021 09:39 pm
The idea that the separation manuever is so late and so low must surely be wrong - too late to do a divert burn then
Why it have to separated already? To fly close to four hours together? For me the time schedule fits well.

At the moment Tianwen-1 and lander are making communication checks. Between 10:30-11:00pm UTC will happen the separation so the Tianwen-1 separation mechanism will give the last big push by springs to the lander. At ~ 11:00pm UTC the spacecraft will roll again and fire the engine of 150 km to avoid to much of the slow down through the martian atmosphere and gain height again. So Tianwen-1 will not reach the perigee of 50 km (the trajectory which was set at 6pm UTC) and will not break apart because of high force through high speed and thin atmosphere.

Yeah, I'm going to have to go with Jonathan here. There's no way a periapsis raise burn 5 minutes before entry interface can raise the orbiter above atmospheric entry without an *exorbitant* amount of propellant expended.

I'd assume the periapsis raise maneuver happened maybe 1 hr after lander release. The closer to periapsis of the entry orbit, the greater the propellant cost to raise so it only makes sense to raise it back again fairly soon after entry capsule separation.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/14/2021 09:43 pm
Is the drag of the atmosphere between 150 to >50 km already to strong to set the orbiter in danger?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ugordan on 05/14/2021 09:52 pm
It's not about drag. It's about orbital mechanics... (The worst kind of mechanics - lazy and overpaid).
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Jrcraft on 05/14/2021 11:07 pm
"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?
A touch off topic, but worth mentioning is that one of the theory's as to why we lost the transmission from Mars 3 is that the relay satellite went out of range. The lander sent off of it's data to the mars 3 orbiter which then relayed it back to Earth. However, the Orbiter, which was intended to enter a 25 hour orbit around Mars had a propellent leak while en route to mars. because of this, the orbiter was only able to enter a 12 day, 19 hour orbit. So the theory is that because of this highly elliptical orbit, the orbiter was traveling at a much higher velocity when it was near the planet. Meaning it went out of range shortly after landing. So after Mars 3's EDL, the landed spent 90 seconds up righting itself, deploying it's transmitter's before beginning transmission. Once transmission began, it continued for 14.5 seconds before being lost. The lander expected to be able to talk to the relay again within 19 hours, not 12 1/2 days. So by the time the relay would have gotten a low enough pass over the lander, it's batteries would have been dead.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/14/2021 11:09 pm
Hopefully the 7 minutes for the Chinese rover is underway:
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1393341590337425409 (https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1393341590337425409)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: centaurinasa on 05/14/2021 11:15 pm
https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/1393343476943687686
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/14/2021 11:17 pm
Hopefully a soft touchdown. We just have to wait now.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jbenton on 05/14/2021 11:27 pm
So landing will occur tonight  8)
Do we have an idea of what time? Last I heard yesterday it was something like 16:00 US Pacific Time (where I live).

Read this article please, or even just the tweet.  If you don't know how to convert UTC to your local time, now is a great time to start :)

Dang, I knew I should've expressed that in UTC. It was almost exactly 4:11 PDT yesterday when I read that, so I had that figure burned into my head. Thanks for reminding me not to be Cali-centric  ;)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: LouScheffer on 05/14/2021 11:36 pm
Hopefully a soft touchdown. We just have to wait now.
China should know by now:  23:11 + 18 minutes has passed with a few minutes to spare.

Did the lander have a 'beacon', an unmodulated carrier detectable from Earth even when sent through the lander's low gain antenna?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Bob Shaw on 05/14/2021 11:55 pm
Hopefully a soft touchdown. We just have to wait now.
China should know by now:  23:11 + 18 minutes has passed with a few minutes to spare.

Did the lander have a 'beacon', an unmodulated carrier detectable from Earth even when sent through the lander's low gain antenna?

Oh, I hope they've landed safely!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: luhai167 on 05/15/2021 12:18 am
say it's success. No reactions yet in 8am news.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/15/2021 12:33 am
https://twitter.com/infoshymkent/status/1393363091514134532 (https://twitter.com/infoshymkent/status/1393363091514134532)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: luhai167 on 05/15/2021 12:34 am
China youth daily confirms receipt of signal.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210515/9714b4b6562abd34e21da19ee42487e3.jpg)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/15/2021 12:40 am
Another official source and Scientist in China:
https://twitter.com/guo_linli/status/1393365157221257218 (https://twitter.com/guo_linli/status/1393365157221257218)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: soyuzu on 05/15/2021 12:42 am
The Weibo of Xinhua Agency (Official news agency) has confirmed a successful landing.

https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4637036026006686

CGTN also confirmed

https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1393365096609435648?s=20
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ace5 on 05/15/2021 12:51 am
rendering of lander on Mars and Zhurong moving to the surface
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: luhai167 on 05/15/2021 12:52 am
Full report from China Space News. Now we just need to wait for pictures to come back.

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/3efQ9ypOlN7ODJLz_KQL2w
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Bob Shaw on 05/15/2021 01:00 am
Good news might be creeping out...
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Jrcraft on 05/15/2021 01:16 am
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3133587/china-successfully-lands-mars-rover-zhu-rong-after-nine-minutes
Quote
After seven months of space travel, three months orbiting and “nine minutes of terror”, China has become the third country in the world to safely land a rover on Mars.
Third country after the USSR and the USA to land a rover on Mars.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Bob Shaw on 05/15/2021 01:28 am
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57122914
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 05/15/2021 02:16 am
Landing time 14 May 2021, 23:18 UTC (15 May, 07:18 China Standard Time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8sdQMKWVbI
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: sghill on 05/15/2021 03:13 am
Congratulations to the teams who achieved this.

Great for their country and great for humanity.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: catdlr on 05/15/2021 03:38 am
a video simulating the Landing sequence:

https://youtu.be/xgxXNaZ_pd4
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/15/2021 03:45 am
MCC Screen shows the landing point as 25.1 N, 109.9 E.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: AS_501 on 05/15/2021 03:58 am
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/15/2021 04:48 am
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

No need to sterilise a mission that is not entering a potential special region.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SMS on 05/15/2021 05:15 am
https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1393377744491147266

Quote
https://news.cgtn.com/event/2021/tianwen1-to-mars/index.html
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SMS on 05/15/2021 05:17 am
https://twitter.com/sklplanets/status/1393361045347966978

Quote
Succesful landing of #Tianwen1, on #Mars! Landing point: 109.7 E, 25.1 N, less than 40 km from target location in Utopia Planitia. More details expected later!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SMS on 05/15/2021 05:18 am
http://www.planet4589.org/space/jsr/latest.html

Quote
Tianwen-1
----------

The Chinese Tianwen-1 probe has made the country's first successful landing on Mars, on May 14.
The Tianwen-1 Orbiter made an orbit adjust at about 1800 UTC to lower its orbit around
Mars from 277 x 57761 km x 88.7 deg to about -16 x 60300 km x 88.7 deg. At about 2000 UTC
the Tianwen-1 Lander separated from the Orbiter; and around 2030 UTC the Orbiter then raised
periares again to return to its previous orbit. The Lander then descended, beginning
atmospheric entry at 2254 UTC at an altitude of 125 km, a velocity of 4.8 km/s and
an entry angle of -11.2 degrees. At about 2259 UTC the main parachute deployed, and then the
heat shield was jettisoned. The backshell and parachute separated about a minute later
and rocket-powered descent began, leading to a landing at 109.7E 25.1N on Utopia Planitia at 2301 UTC.
The signal from the landing was received on Earth at 2318 UTC after a light travel time of 17m 44s.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jbenton on 05/15/2021 05:26 am
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

No need to sterilize a mission that is not entering a potential special region.

Doesn't NASA have different classes of sterilization for different parts of Mars?
I believe Moon missions are Class I (least effort)
Mars orbiters are Class II
All Mars surface missions are at least Class III
Perseverance is an unprecedented Class V (I don't know which particular missions have been Class IV)
But I could be am probably wrong about that.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/15/2021 05:49 am
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

No need to sterilize a mission that is not entering a potential special region.

Doesn't NASA have different classes of sterilization for different parts of Mars?
I believe Moon missions are Class I (least effort)
Mars orbiters are Class II
All Mars surface missions are at least Class III
Perseverance is an unprecedented Class V (I don't know which particular missions have been Class IV)
But I could be wrong about that.

Mars surface missions are category IV that is to a body where there is a significant chance of contamination which could compromise future investigations.  There three sub-categories:

IVa. Missions not carrying instruments for the investigations of extant martian life.  This applies to Zhurong, also Spirit and Opportunity, Insight, etc. These are restricted to a surface bioburden level of ≤ 3 x 105 spores, and an average of ≤ 300 spores per square meter.

IVb. Missions designed to investigate extant martian life, not applicable to Zhurong. These have to be much cleaner and key components sterilized. Viking missions were the only ones that met this standard.

IVc. For missions which investigate martian special regions.  Not applicable to Zhurong.

Category V.  Sample return missions, e.g. Perseverance.

Source: Kminek, G., Conley, C., Hipkin, V., and Yano, H. 2017. COSPAR’s Planetary Protection Policy.  https://cosparhq.cnes.fr/assets/uploads/2019/12/PPPolicyDecember-2017.pdf


Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 05/15/2021 06:04 am
China succeeds in first Mars landing

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-05/15/c_139947277.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ccdengr on 05/15/2021 06:14 am
Category V.  Sample return missions, e.g. Perseverance.
Mars2020 is only Category IVb with some higher levels in the sampling system.  https://science.nasa.gov/science-red/s3fs-public/atoms/files/Mars_2020_Project_Overview_v3_pptx.pdf slide 20.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: daedalus1 on 05/15/2021 06:24 am
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

Did the Soviets with Mars 3?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/15/2021 06:29 am
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

Did the Soviets with Mars 3?

Yes.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: daedalus1 on 05/15/2021 06:44 am
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

Did the Soviets with Mars 3?

Yes.

You have a link to support that?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 05/15/2021 07:27 am
The rover is called Zhurong.

"China's first Mars rover is named Zhurong after the god of fire in ancient Chinese mythology, which echoes with the Chinese name of the red planet: Huoxing (the planet of fire)."
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/15/2021 07:38 am
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

Did the Soviets with Mars 3?

Yes.

You have a link to support that?

Brian Harvey 2007, Russian planetary exploration, Springer/Praxis, p 132 mentions sterilisation of lander components.  Probes were also assembled in clean rooms. 

V. G. Perminov (1999) The difficult road to Mars p52 (NASA monographs in aerospace history 15) gives more details. Components were sterilised by a range of techniques including gases (methyl bromide), radioactive and thermal. None of these techniques could be used with the completely assembled lander. The lander was assembled in a sterile facility equipped with air filtration and germicidal lamps. 

This is fine for spacecraft landing in what we now know to be non special regions.  We really need to stop assuming that the US is the only entity that cares about planetary protection.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 05/15/2021 07:41 am
daedalus1: "You have a link to support that?"


https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id=1971-049F (https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id=1971-049F)

This mission description at NSSDC (based on detailed information, obviously) says the spacecraft was sterilized.  It was easy to find - I used Google.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: daedalus1 on 05/15/2021 07:43 am
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

Did the Soviets with Mars 3?

Yes.

You have a link to support that?

Brian Harvey 2007, Russian planetary exploration, Springer/Praxis, p 132 mentions sterilisation of lander components.  Probes were also assembled in clean rooms. 

V. G. Perminov (1999) The difficult road to Mars p52 (NASA monographs in aerospace history 15) gives more details. Components were sterilised by a range of techniques including gases (methyl bromide), radioactive and thermal. None of these techniques could be used with the completely assembled lander. The lander was assembled in a sterile facility equipped with air filtration and germicidal lamps. 

This is fine for spacecraft landing in what we now know to be non special regions.  We really need to stop assuming that the US is the only entity that cares about planetary protection.

A clean room is not sterile. So the sterilized components would have been contaminated.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tyrred on 05/15/2021 08:16 am
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

Did the Soviets with Mars 3?

Yes.

You have a link to support that?

Brian Harvey 2007, Russian planetary exploration, Springer/Praxis, p 132 mentions sterilisation of lander components.  Probes were also assembled in clean rooms. 

V. G. Perminov (1999) The difficult road to Mars p52 (NASA monographs in aerospace history 15) gives more details. Components were sterilised by a range of techniques including gases (methyl bromide), radioactive and thermal. None of these techniques could be used with the completely assembled lander. The lander was assembled in a sterile facility equipped with air filtration and germicidal lamps. 

This is fine for spacecraft landing in what we now know to be non special regions.  We really need to stop assuming that the US is the only entity that cares about planetary protection.

A clean room is not sterile. So the sterilized components would have been contaminated.

Please take it to a planetary protection thread.

This thread is about the Tianwen-1.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/15/2021 08:38 am
https://mobile.twitter.com/Eurekablog/status/1393374850669064192

Descent video showing the steering flap in work after entry and the optical navigation!

Bewildering success by China, bring the first ever to land at the first try on the 'unforgivimg' Red Planet, and a promising sign for humanity's solar system exploration!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/15/2021 08:41 am
Big Red Screen of Success {TM}

https://mobile.twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1393459370302844928

And a clip of 'the human side' from mission control:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarsZhurong/status/1393434176444055552
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: daedalus1 on 05/15/2021 09:02 am
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

Did the Soviets with Mars 3?

Yes.

You have a link to support that?

Brian Harvey 2007, Russian planetary exploration, Springer/Praxis, p 132 mentions sterilisation of lander components.  Probes were also assembled in clean rooms. 

V. G. Perminov (1999) The difficult road to Mars p52 (NASA monographs in aerospace history 15) gives more details. Components were sterilised by a range of techniques including gases (methyl bromide), radioactive and thermal. None of these techniques could be used with the completely assembled lander. The lander was assembled in a sterile facility equipped with air filtration and germicidal lamps. 

This is fine for spacecraft landing in what we now know to be non special regions.  We really need to stop assuming that the US is the only entity that cares about planetary protection.

A clean room is not sterile. So the sterilized components would have been contaminated.

Please take it to a planetary protection thread.

This thread is about the Tianwen-1.

With due respect, I didn't bring this conversation here. I'm simply responding to someone else who did.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: centaurinasa on 05/15/2021 09:06 am
https://twitter.com/XHNews/status/1393457763276115972

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-05/15/c_139947574.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: centaurinasa on 05/15/2021 09:14 am
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/CHHEsu9WuSYD8-_28NEG3Q

(thanks to Cosmic Penguin for the link)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: centaurinasa on 05/15/2021 09:34 am
https://twitter.com/Kaynouky/status/1393496663956856838


According to an interview with Wu Yanhua, CNSA's number 2, the rover will descend from the platform on the 22nd, and then the selfie with the lander will take place on the 27th.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: centaurinasa on 05/15/2021 09:36 am
https://twitter.com/Kaynouky/status/1393473902714707969

A nice picture of what looks like a test model of the Tianwen-1 lander.

The classic four-tank structure is recognized and the small pipe of the variable thrust YF-36 engine can be seen.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: centaurinasa on 05/15/2021 10:00 am
The moment of success!!!

https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4637068849250402?from=old_pc_videoshow
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tolis on 05/15/2021 10:13 am
Now waiting for the pictures..
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: limen4 on 05/15/2021 10:16 am
FRom one of my Chinese friends I got the following information:
On May 17, Zhurong Mars Rover will communicate with Tianwen-1 by ESA MarsExpress.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: centaurinasa on 05/15/2021 02:55 pm
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1393539747285377026
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: the_other_Doug on 05/15/2021 06:04 pm
With apologies to Rocket Lab...

Pics or it didn't happen!

;)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: mlindner on 05/15/2021 06:55 pm
FRom one of my Chinese friends I got the following information:
On May 17, Zhurong Mars Rover will communicate with Tianwen-1 by ESA MarsExpress.

I would expect news from ESA were this true.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/15/2021 09:01 pm
FRom one of my Chinese friends I got the following information:
On May 17, Zhurong Mars Rover will communicate with Tianwen-1 by ESA MarsExpress.

I would expect news from ESA were this true.

This was reported already last year: https://www.space.com/china-mars-mission-tianwen-1-international-partners.html Mars Express is backup, Tianwen-1's orbiter will remain prime. I suspect the comms session on the 17th will be the first trial.

""Successful space travel often means pooling resources, and at ESA we are happy to support the new Martian mission with our Estrack network of antennas as well as with our Mars Express spacecraft, currently in orbit at the Red Planet," ESA's Beatriz Arias told Space.com."
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Jeff Lerner on 05/15/2021 09:17 pm
With apologies to Rocket Lab...

Pics or it didn't happen!

;)

Jokes aside...I have to believe pictures have been taken...China has no obligation to share any pictures and I have no reason to believe they didn’t land successfully but.....

It would nice to have at least one picture....you know, just because ...:)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: luhai167 on 05/15/2021 09:46 pm
With apologies to Rocket Lab...

Pics or it didn't happen!

;)

Jokes aside...I have to believe pictures have been taken...China has no obligation to share any pictures and I have no reason to believe they didn’t land successfully but.....

It would nice to have at least one picture....you know, just because ...:)
Yes, since the comments does say mutual picuture, so the lander probably has a camera as well. That one is probably operating now, since unlike Chang'e landers, this one is rather Spartan, so I suspect we needs to have the rover fully deployed to start seeing quality pictures.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/15/2021 10:15 pm
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

Did the Soviets with Mars 3?

Yes.

You have a link to support that?

Brian Harvey 2007, Russian planetary exploration, Springer/Praxis, p 132 mentions sterilisation of lander components.  Probes were also assembled in clean rooms. 

V. G. Perminov (1999) The difficult road to Mars p52 (NASA monographs in aerospace history 15) gives more details. Components were sterilised by a range of techniques including gases (methyl bromide), radioactive and thermal. None of these techniques could be used with the completely assembled lander. The lander was assembled in a sterile facility equipped with air filtration and germicidal lamps. 

This is fine for spacecraft landing in what we now know to be non special regions.  We really need to stop assuming that the US is the only entity that cares about planetary protection.

A clean room is not sterile. So the sterilized components would have been contaminated.

Depends on How it was done.  Phoenix had sterile  components, but was assembled in a clean room. That's because the sampling arm would access zones with potential liquid water.  The rest was only clean.

Opportunity, Spirit, Insight etc. were not sterilised, in whole or in part.

There is no general requirement that Mars landers have to be sterile, only clean.  The Vikings were the only one that was sterilised as well as clean, because it had experiments onboard designed to culture organisms.

There was no need for the M71P landers to be sterilised, the procedures followed went above and beyond was what required at the time.  There is no need in hindsight either, neither neither of the landers ended up in a potential "special region" (a more recent category).

There is no need for Zhurong to have any more than a reduced bioload.  It's not in a potential special region, not will it access a such environments, nor is it a life detection mission.


Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/15/2021 10:26 pm
With apologies to Rocket Lab...

Pics or it didn't happen!

;)

Jokes aside...I have to believe pictures have been taken...China has no obligation to share any pictures and I have no reason to believe they didn’t land successfully but.....

It would nice to have at least one picture....you know, just because ...:)

Images from Yutu 1 and 2 are publically available, why wouldn't those from Zhurong likewise?

People just need to be patient.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ccdengr on 05/15/2021 10:29 pm
There is no general requirement that Mars landers have to be sterile, only clean.
All US Mars landers have been Category IV, and Cat IV requires "bioassays to enumerate the microbial burden, a probability of contamination analysis, an inventory of the bulk constituent organics, and an increased number of implementing procedures."  See https://sma.nasa.gov/sma-disciplines/planetary-protection and https://nodis3.gsfc.nasa.gov/displayDir.cfm?Internal_ID=N_PR_8020_012D_&page_name=AppendixB&search_term=8020%2E12

It's true that having a low bioburden doesn't mean "sterile" but I'd say it means more than "clean".  I've worked on a lot of Marsbound hardware that had no detectable bioburden when we shipped it.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: daedalus1 on 05/15/2021 10:37 pm
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander.  It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment.  Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem?  NASA follows these protocols for a reason.

Did the Soviets with Mars 3?

Yes.

You have a link to support that?

Brian Harvey 2007, Russian planetary exploration, Springer/Praxis, p 132 mentions sterilisation of lander components.  Probes were also assembled in clean rooms. 

V. G. Perminov (1999) The difficult road to Mars p52 (NASA monographs in aerospace history 15) gives more details. Components were sterilised by a range of techniques including gases (methyl bromide), radioactive and thermal. None of these techniques could be used with the completely assembled lander. The lander was assembled in a sterile facility equipped with air filtration and germicidal lamps. 

This is fine for spacecraft landing in what we now know to be non special regions.  We really need to stop assuming that the US is the only entity that cares about planetary protection.

A clean room is not sterile. So the sterilized components would have been contaminated.

Depends on How it was done.  Phoenix had sterile  components, but was assembled in a clean room. That's because the sampling arm would access zones with potential liquid water.  The rest was only clean.

Opportunity, Spirit, Insight etc. were not sterilised, in whole or in part.

There is no general requirement that Mars landers have to be sterile, only clean.  The Vikings were the only one that was sterilised as well as clean, because it had experiments onboard designed to culture organisms.

There was no need for the M71P landers to be sterilised, the procedures followed went above and beyond was what required at the time.  There is no need in hindsight either, neither neither of the landers ended up in a potential "special region" (a more recent category).

There is no need for Zhurong to have any more than a reduced bioload.  It's not in a potential special region, not will it access a such environments, nor is it a life detection mission.

If microbes can survive the 6 month exposure to the vacuum of space, then they can survive on Mars and be transported around the planet by dust storms. If they can't survive the 6 month journey, then what is the point of sterilizing the craft.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/15/2021 11:08 pm

If microbes can survive the 6 month exposure to the vacuum of space, then they can survive on Mars and be transported around the planet by dust storms. If they can't survive the 6 month journey, then what is the point of sterilizing the craft.

This is a common misunderstanding.

The design specification of bioload for a IVa mission is an average ≤ 300 spores per square metre and a total bioload of no more than 3 x 105 spores.

Microbes are adapted to a specific range of environments, and require specific temperatures, pressures, food, liquid water, absence of toxins, and,in many cases, free oxygen.  The interior of a spacecraft is inhospitable to microbes.  The temperature extremes, low pressure, absence of water, oxygen and nutrients, and elevated cosmic radiation will kill most off. 

Some will survive as spores.  Spores are like seeds, they only activate when conditions are right.The surface of a spacecraft of Mars is extremely hostile to microbes.  Not only do the low pressure, absence of oxygen and nutrients, and elevated cosmic radiation levels persist, but added to this is the presence of strongly oxidising saline dusts, and constant daytime irradiance with hard UV B and C.  Moisture is still low and temperatures are even more extreme. 

Under these conditions any surviving spores will not activate to form viable microbes, capable of metabolising and reproducing. They will be killed off over a period of time, experimentally probably with hours to days, depending on species.  Any inside the lander may survive as spores for longer, protected from the UV and perhaps dust.  But they similarly will be killed off with time due to the lack of essentials of life.

As for transmission by dust storms, this is unlikely in the extreme.  First there won't be many spores to start with, secondly they will be killed off quickly on the surface of Mars.  In the remote chance of a few being mobilised off the spacecraft surface by the wind, they will be killed off even paster because of even more exposure to the hostile environment.  If they survive this then somehow have have to arrive in a surfacenevironment in which they can metabolise and reproduce.  No such environments are known.

This is why a standard Mars lander or rover like Zhurong is not required by COSPAR to be sterile, only clean.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Ollopa11 on 05/15/2021 11:28 pm

If microbes can survive



I thought this was being moved to another thread?  Totally irrelevant to today's wait for imagery!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/15/2021 11:51 pm
There is no general requirement that Mars landers have to be sterile, only clean.
All US Mars landers have been Category IV, and Cat IV requires "bioassays to enumerate the microbial burden, a probability of contamination analysis, an inventory of the bulk constituent organics, and an increased number of implementing procedures."  See https://sma.nasa.gov/sma-disciplines/planetary-protection and https://nodis3.gsfc.nasa.gov/displayDir.cfm?Internal_ID=N_PR_8020_012D_&page_name=AppendixB&search_term=8020%2E12

It's true that having a low bioburden doesn't mean "sterile" but I'd say it means more than "clean".  I've worked on a lot of Marsbound hardware that had no detectable bioburden when we shipped it.

What term would you use?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/15/2021 11:52 pm

If microbes can survive



I thought this was being moved to another thread?  Totally irrelevant to today's wait for imagery!

Good idea.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tangdou8 on 05/16/2021 01:46 am
With apologies to Rocket Lab...

Pics or it didn't happen!

;)

Jokes aside...I have to believe pictures have been taken...China has no obligation to share any pictures and I have no reason to believe they didn’t land successfully but.....

It would nice to have at least one picture....you know, just because ...:)

The direct communication rate is only 16bps and only used to receive telemetry data
Since they only have their orbiter acts as a relay station, there would only be a 8-10 minutes window each day to transmit ~20Mbit data.
So, just be patient.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Conexion Espacial on 05/16/2021 02:12 am
The Aerospace account of China published a few minutes ago what would be the first image of Mars taken by Zhurong, but now they have deleted it, it is a photo where it can be seen on a computer.

Along with the photo, they said that in a few hours the photos would be published officially and in high resolution.

luckily reach to download the photo.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: sanman on 05/16/2021 11:38 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJyE0teEDvg


@2:29  - Professor Yang Yuguang from the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation mentions that China is planning to carry out a Mars sample return mission in the future. Are there any more details on this?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: chetan_chpd on 05/16/2021 01:25 pm
Is last chang’e sample return misson payload size enough for mars sample return?

At least lander / return vehicle size could be similar...orbiter should require extra fuel to return
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tangdou8 on 05/16/2021 01:53 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJyE0teEDvg


@2:29  - Professor Yang Yuguang from the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation mentions that China is planning to carry out a Mars sample return mission in the future. Are there any more details on this?

Here is a slide showing some mission details back in 2019.
There will be a Long March 5 launching the return module and a Long March 3B(or most likely to be a Long March 7A considering they would replace all old-generation rocket before 2030) launching the lander and ascender in Nov 2028. The surface operation would span from 2029.10 to 2030.7. Finally, the tentative return time would be 2031.9
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Kryten on 05/16/2021 02:08 pm
 Mars Sample Return has also been mooted as a possible payload for early CZ-9 launches (envisioned for 2028-30 period). I'm sure they're looking at doing it with the 921 launcher now.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: sanman on 05/16/2021 03:48 pm
Is last chang’e sample return misson payload size enough for mars sample return?

At least lander / return vehicle size could be similar...orbiter should require extra fuel to return

Mars has higher gravity to overcome
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: RoadWithoutEnd on 05/16/2021 03:58 pm
China has no obligation to share any pictures

I would say it does, but not the sort of obligation written into a piece of paper anywhere.  Sharing the results of a space probe shows that a country understands the significance of what it's doing, and is worthy of doing it.

Nothing can diminish the accomplishment in itself, but it's hard to avoid the impression that: We go to Mars because it's there, while China has gone to Mars only because we are there. 

Being tight-lipped with results would only cement that impression.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Frogstar_Robot on 05/16/2021 04:06 pm
China has no obligation to share any pictures

I would say it does, but not the sort of obligation written into a piece of paper anywhere.  Sharing the results of a space probe shows that a country understands the significance of what it's doing, and is worthy of doing it.

Nothing can diminish the accomplishment in itself, but it's hard to avoid the impression that: We go to Mars because it's there, while China has gone to Mars only because we are there. 

Being tight-lipped with results would only cement that impression.

What hypocrisy! "Nothing USA does is political, but everything China does has a political dimension". Did you forget the purpose of Apollo already? And did you forget that it is the USA that has refused to cooperate with China in space?

Take your politics to reddit.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jbenton on 05/16/2021 04:24 pm
China has no obligation to share any pictures

I would say it does, but not the sort of obligation written into a piece of paper anywhere.  Sharing the results of a space probe shows that a country understands the significance of what it's doing, and is worthy of doing it.

Nothing can diminish the accomplishment in itself, but it's hard to avoid the impression that: We go to Mars because it's there, while China has gone to Mars only because we are there. 

Being tight-lipped with results would only cement that impression.

What hypocrisy! "Nothing USA does is political, but everything China does has a political dimension". Did you forget the purpose of Apollo already? And did you forget that it is the USA that has refused to cooperate with China in space?

Take your politics to reddit.

Or a Space Policy thread.

Does anyone remember how long it took to receive pictures from Chang'e 3/Yutu? I don't remember, I wasn't following that one as closely.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Hungry4info3 on 05/16/2021 04:34 pm
Just a few minutes after landing for CE-3, and maybe an hour or so for CE-4. But they both also had an easier time communicating with Earth.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 05/16/2021 05:25 pm
China has no obligation to share any pictures

I would say it does, but not the sort of obligation written into a piece of paper anywhere.  Sharing the results of a space probe shows that a country understands the significance of what it's doing, and is worthy of doing it.

Nothing can diminish the accomplishment in itself, but it's hard to avoid the impression that: We go to Mars because it's there, while China has gone to Mars only because we are there. 

Being tight-lipped with results would only cement that impression.

What hypocrisy! "Nothing USA does is political, but everything China does has a political dimension". Did you forget the purpose of Apollo already? And did you forget that it is the USA that has refused to cooperate with China in space?

Take your politics to reddit.

Lighten up, Francis.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Kryten on 05/16/2021 05:55 pm
 The idea that they should've released photos already only makes sense if they actually already have photos. The orbiter having to directly drop off the lander into the entry interface means there could be a gap until it's in a usable orbit for relay purposes, especially with the week-long gap between landing and starting the later operations with driving off the lander.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: sanman on 05/16/2021 06:18 pm
China has no obligation to share any pictures

How you do things affects your credibility. When NASA televises its landings live, even without knowing whether something is going to succeed or fail, it provides authenticity and credibility to the endeavor. That's part of what "7 Minutes of Terror" is all about - not knowing whether you'll succeed or fail, but sharing it all the same.

Because success has a thousand fathers, but failure is an orphan.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/16/2021 07:13 pm
There are reasons:

https://mobile.twitter.com/yangchengkai/status/1393981046543339530

That said, I agree this sort of hush-hush coverage unnecessarily paints quite a sad light on China and takes interest away from the mission when it could easily be in the limelight. Disappointing to see this habit taking a stronger hold with time instead of the contrary, and not just by China.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Hungry4info3 on 05/16/2021 07:24 pm
On a similar note, from here (https://twitter.com/zzbar/status/1393986638188105729)
Quote
You of all people should know this: NASA have three orbiters in place to relay images.   China’s only orbiter had to deliver the lander to the surface, escape the gravity back to its orbit (2-day period), change obit/Lower its period to relay lander signal to earth.
An orbit adjustment will be performed today to lower period to 8 hours.  Also Zhurong is solar powered, not RTG,  the window of opportunities to transmit images is much narrower.  So far only sensor and state data were transmitted.  Don’t expect pictures till mid week.

Quote
How you do things affects your credibility.
What does this even mean? Credibility among whom? Let's regulate our perception of their "credibility" with a little humility, and raise the quality of the discourse here.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 05/16/2021 08:54 pm
"the data will not be sent back to Earth until the transmission is totally completed"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejk95PwqLIo
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ccdengr on 05/16/2021 08:57 pm
Seems strange that they can't return images via the rover's HGA direct to Earth.  In 1997, Pathfinder managed to send quite a few images shortly after landing without a relay of any kind.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: vjkane on 05/16/2021 09:13 pm
My bet: China is waiting for bulk data downloads and on-Earth processing so they can release the kinds of highly impressive images and movies like NASA did for Perseverance a few days after its landing (remember the drought of information)?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 05/16/2021 10:04 pm
"In 1997, Pathfinder managed to send quite a few images shortly after landing without a relay of any kind."

Pathfinder's images were horrible little postage stamp things (I've worked with them), not the big megapixel images we are used to today.  The situations are not really comparable.

I would add that any Americans who are impatient to see China's images should do what it takes to allow some cooperation.  Without that the data return rate will necessarily be lower than we are accustomed to with NASA missions, especially at this early stage while Tianwen-1 is adjusting its orbit.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ccdengr on 05/16/2021 10:19 pm
I would add that any Americans who are impatient to see China's images should do what it takes to allow some cooperation.
Which means what?  AFAIK the Chinese have never asked NASA for anything in terms of supporting the mission.

As for Pathfinder, sure, the images were smaller.  I'd rather have a downsampled version of an image than no images at all.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 05/16/2021 10:31 pm
No point asking for it, it's illegal.  The action has to come from the other end.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ccdengr on 05/16/2021 10:45 pm
No point asking for it, it's illegal.  The action has to come from the other end.
If you're referring to the so-called Wolf clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_exclusion_policy_of_NASA exceptions can and have been granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/17/2021 01:04 am
I have just saw older presentations on the mission and on the communications slide it was written that "rover-orbiter UHF links will be established on Sol 3", so maybe they are waiting for this to happen within the next day or so (though CCTV's coverage post-landing had the first photo downlink opportunity back on Saturday several hours after landing, I thought it meant there might be a chance for early UHF links :-\).

The Sol 3 limit might be due to the orbiter still being in the 65000 km apoapsis 2-sol period mapping orbit after re-raising its orbit on landing day. Chinese reports has it going around Mars one more time before lowering to the 15000 km apoapsis, 1/3-sol period orbit for the rover's prime mission, which the burn should be happening/happened within this very hour or so.

Anyway with reports of Mars Express helping out the first time (+) Monday we should see more info coming in hours from now. But I must admit public communication for this mission isn't stellar so far, even by PRC standards.

(+) I believe ExoMars Trace Gas Orbiter is unable to participate in relaying from Chinese spacecraft due to its UHF radio (actually 2 sets) being NASA's ELECTRA package. Mars Express AFAIK uses one built in the UK originally planned for Beagle 2 (RIP).

https://twitter.com/esaoperations/status/1286233914814672899?s=19
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: shijiav on 05/17/2021 02:26 am
No point asking for it, it's illegal.  The action has to come from the other end.
If you're referring to the so-called Wolf clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_exclusion_policy_of_NASA exceptions can and have been granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis.
You really believe "exceptions can be granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis"? LOL
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ccdengr on 05/17/2021 04:14 am
You really believe "exceptions can be granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis"? LOL
Not only do I believe it, it's already happened in the case of LRO and the Yutu 2 rover.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/farside-politics-the-west-eyes-moon-cooperation-with-china/
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/17/2021 08:17 am
Some interesting tidbits deduced from a picture of a presentation slide (wonder why these either aren't accessible in a proper repository somewhere, or if they are why it isn't being found, since clearly the responsible people have been disseminating the information publicly!) from this thread:

https://twitter.com/ea4gpz/status/1394038048489365506

Nornal mode 2 kbps up, 16.4 kbps down. Emergency mode: 7.8125 bps, 32 bps down (encoded). Data transfer tare:16k-4096 kpbs encoded, multiple options

High-speed comms: 50 Mbit of X-band comms is every three days, constrained by power considerations, between rover and orbiter, at 32 kbps - can be used at 15000 km near apogee of the new post-EDL orbit.

Normal-speed comms: 8-10 mins of comms a day, at around 20 Mbps, in new post-EDL orbit.

Direct communication to Earth from rover 16bps.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/17/2021 08:34 am
Maneuver confirmed: Tianwen-1's orbiter is now in an 8-hour orbit (from the previous, 48-hour one):

https://twitter.com/coastal8049/status/1394142090020327429
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/17/2021 08:48 am
New photos from Tianwen 1 has just hit the ground!

...alas it's from the orbiter, from the Mars Mineralogy Spectrometer of somewhere on Mars in the visual-NIR (left) & NIR-MIR (right) bands.

Source: Shanghai Institute of Technical Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences

http://www.sitp.ac.cn/xwzx/kydt/202105/t20210515_6014223.html (http://www.sitp.ac.cn/xwzx/kydt/202105/t20210515_6014223.html)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Liss on 05/17/2021 09:09 am
Seems strange that they can't return images via the rover's HGA direct to Earth. 
They say this link is only 16 bps. OK for slow telemetry but not for images.
Tianwen 1 and Mars Express can relay the rover data. After the May 17 maneuver Tianwen 1 is scheduled to support data relay from May 18.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: edzieba on 05/17/2021 11:48 am
Seems strange that they can't return images via the rover's HGA direct to Earth.  In 1997, Pathfinder managed to send quite a few images shortly after landing without a relay of any kind.
Rover is not yet deployed, so its antennas are not in action yet.

Lander's HGA (High Gain Antenna) may or may not even be deployed yet, depending on how the deployment sequence is structured (e.g. if the HGA is deployed on a piece of hardware that does double duty as a rover restraint, that would preclude HGA use until after the rover is unlocked). Lander's HGA may also be for comms with the orbiter only, not DTE (Direct to Earth) comms, so would also require the orbiter to reach its relay orbit and have LoS (Line of Sight).
Milestone confirmation (Lander locally assesses stuff that was supposed to happen did happen) gets priority in the limited DTE downlink bandwidth available. After that, actual telemetry values (health status) are the priority during the checkout and deployment sequence. Confirmation of landing has already been communicated, and telemetry values are both proprietary (e.g. stuff like "current leg deflection" or "local temperature") and do not have much value for public communication - the same parties who scream "no picture, fake!" will say the same regardless of what telemetry values are reported. Unlike with Curiosity and Perseverance, there are no images that can show status of the rover or lander itself, as all the cameras will be onboard facing out until the rover has deployed, so they have no value for engineering diagnostics and only as public facing PR (until the start of science operations) making them very low priority for return given their bandwidth requirements.
If "rover-orbiter UHF links will be established on Sol 3" is indeed correct, then after a few orbits of checkouts and handshaking and downlinking of stored landing telemetry, the first images can then start making their way from the lander to the orbiter for retransmission.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Svetoslav on 05/17/2021 01:37 pm
Can HiRISE take photos of the landing location? Does it fly above it, or the orbit is unsuitable?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 05/17/2021 01:55 pm
You really believe "exceptions can be granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis"? LOL
Not only do I believe it, it's already happened in the case of LRO and the Yutu 2 rover.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/farside-politics-the-west-eyes-moon-cooperation-with-china/

There was also a cooperative sharing of data when Tianwen-1 reached Mars to make sure that it would not collide with any other orbiter currently at Mars. And there was cooperation over CE-3.

But the cooperation was very limited. And the US got burned on the CE-3 example when China was supposed to provide data on the exhaust burn time so that LADEE could monitor it and they failed to do so. NASA officials were angered by that.

Any agreement to use American spacecraft as relays for Chinese data would be a major cooperative effort, and it would also use up DSN time, taking it away from American spacecraft. Even with congressional approval, I doubt that NASA would be interested.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tmq on 05/17/2021 04:21 pm
You really believe "exceptions can be granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis"? LOL
Not only do I believe it, it's already happened in the case of LRO and the Yutu 2 rover.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/farside-politics-the-west-eyes-moon-cooperation-with-china/

There was also a cooperative sharing of data when Tianwen-1 reached Mars to make sure that it would not collide with any other orbiter currently at Mars. And there was cooperation over CE-3.

But the cooperation was very limited. And the US got burned on the CE-3 example when China was supposed to provide data on the exhaust burn time so that LADEE could monitor it and they failed to do so. NASA officials were angered by that.

Any agreement to use American spacecraft as relays for Chinese data would be a major cooperative effort, and it would also use up DSN time, taking it away from American spacecraft. Even with congressional approval, I doubt that NASA would be interested.

That's not what I heard. I heard its just that their landing plan(time & location) just could not meet LADEE's flyover time or orbit. NASA sent request too late when CE3 team already had most things in plan settled. NASA understood it and still carried certain observation and nobody got frakked off for that.

U should understand that the states is the one set the barrier. NASA and CNSA did have limited cooperation since the ban set up-but for China it is humiliated to ask for cooperation when the other part already clearly said all your achievement were from steal and they don't want to work with you, especially with this "if you ask sincerely we may consider and approve it"- so all those limited cooperation was initiated by NASA and they have to transfer certain data to CNSA too.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 05/17/2021 04:35 pm
That's not what I heard. I heard its just that their landing plan(time & location) just could not meet LADEE's flyover time or orbit. NASA sent request too late when CE3 team already had most things in plan settled. NASA understood it and still carried certain observation and nobody got frakked off for that.

https://spacenews.com/foust-forward-the-challenges-to-chinese-space-cooperation/

"Before we celebrate a new era in U.S.-China space cooperation, though, there are obstacles to overcome on both sides of the Pacific. Pace lamented a lack of trust between the U.S. and China. He cited as an example the difficulties coordinating with China a planned impact of an unnamed Chinese spacecraft on the moon: American scientists were interested in observing that impact with NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, and exchanged information on orbits with the intent on coordinating observations of the impact.

That impact, though, ultimately occurred without any notification of time or location by the Chinese, “much to the irritation of the U.S. scientists who spent a lot of time on this,” Pace said. “This is not the way to build trust.”


I will also add that I was told about this by a senior NASA planetary science official long before this October 2018 article was published.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: shijiav on 05/17/2021 05:03 pm
You really believe "exceptions can be granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis"? LOL
Not only do I believe it, it's already happened in the case of LRO and the Yutu 2 rover.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/farside-politics-the-west-eyes-moon-cooperation-with-china/
How can exchanging orbit data/coordinates be viewed as 'cooperation'? better call it 'safety protocol'
US congress set the barrier and how you expect the blocked one ask blocker to cooperate on data transmission?
the primal goal for tianwen-1 is not satisfying enthusiasts a take a look at fresh mars picture just after its touchdown.
Just patient.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jbenton on 05/17/2021 05:36 pm
@ tmq:

Welcome to the Forum!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tmq on 05/17/2021 08:00 pm
My apologize. I must be confused between ce3 and ce4 mission. For ce3 I can't remember any cooperation happened betw nasa and cnsa reported on the news. But for ce4 cnsa did share orbit and touchdown coord/time and so did NASA for the LADEE/LRO. I believe there were reports saying that due to not being on the idea orbit when touchdown happened, nasa did not collect too much meaningful data.

That's not what I heard. I heard its just that their landing plan(time & location) just could not meet LADEE's flyover time or orbit. NASA sent request too late when CE3 team already had most things in plan settled. NASA understood it and still carried certain observation and nobody got frakked off for that.

https://spacenews.com/foust-forward-the-challenges-to-chinese-space-cooperation/

"Before we celebrate a new era in U.S.-China space cooperation, though, there are obstacles to overcome on both sides of the Pacific. Pace lamented a lack of trust between the U.S. and China. He cited as an example the difficulties coordinating with China a planned impact of an unnamed Chinese spacecraft on the moon: American scientists were interested in observing that impact with NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, and exchanged information on orbits with the intent on coordinating observations of the impact.

That impact, though, ultimately occurred without any notification of time or location by the Chinese, “much to the irritation of the U.S. scientists who spent a lot of time on this,” Pace said. “This is not the way to build trust.”


I will also add that I was told about this by a senior NASA planetary science official long before this October 2018 article was published.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: AS_501 on 05/17/2021 08:52 pm
Can HiRISE take photos of the landing location? Does it fly above it, or the orbit is unsuitable?

Excellent idea, but that may be Administrator Nelson's, or even a White House-level decision to make.  Chinese may not like a spy satellite-like photo of their lander being published.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/17/2021 09:28 pm
Can HiRISE take photos of the landing location? Does it fly above it, or the orbit is unsuitable?

Excellent idea, but that may be Administrator Nelson's, or even a White House-level decision to make.  Chinese may not like a spy satellite-like photo of their lander being published.

Why would they mind?  Did they object to pictures of their lunar landings? No.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: AS_501 on 05/17/2021 09:44 pm
Can HiRISE take photos of the landing location? Does it fly above it, or the orbit is unsuitable?

Excellent idea, but that may be Administrator Nelson's, or even a White House-level decision to make.  Chinese may not like a spy satellite-like photo of their lander being published.

Why would they mind?  Did they object to pictures of their lunar landings? No.



Good point, but I think the Chinese would be upset if, in fact, the lander had crashed.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: redliox on 05/17/2021 11:00 pm
New photos from Tianwen 1 has just hit the ground!

....now when you say hit the ground....?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 05/17/2021 11:23 pm
https://www.leonarddavid.com/china-mars-mission-data-relay-from-utopia-planitia/

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/17/2021 11:35 pm
Can HiRISE take photos of the landing location? Does it fly above it, or the orbit is unsuitable?

Excellent idea, but that may be Administrator Nelson's, or even a White House-level decision to make.  Chinese may not like a spy satellite-like photo of their lander being published.

Why would they mind?  Did they object to pictures of their lunar landings? No.



Good point, but I think the Chinese would be upset if, in fact, the lander had crashed.

They would probably appreciate any data available to analyse what happened.  Did India object when LROC imaged the Chandrayaan 2 crash site on the Moon?  Israel when it imaged the Beresheet crash?  ESA when the Beagle 2 and Schiaparelli sites were imaged by HiRISE? Russia when Mars 3 was found?

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: vjkane on 05/17/2021 11:45 pm
Can HiRISE take photos of the landing location? Does it fly above it, or the orbit is unsuitable?

Excellent idea, but that may be Administrator Nelson's, or even a White House-level decision to make.  Chinese may not like a spy satellite-like photo of their lander being published.

Why would they mind?  Did they object to pictures of their lunar landings? No.
There's a well established "open skies" policy here on Earth where satellites can image any location on the planet, including the most sensitive Chinese military sites (or for the Chinese, American).  It would be very strange to argue that America can't image a site on Mars while the Chinese are using their satellites to observe the US military.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 05/18/2021 12:08 am
This was an interesting thing... I think we can add a bit more.  The Foust article was published in late 2018.  At that time only one Chinese spacecraft had crashed on the Moon - Chang'e 1, intentionally deorbited - so calling it un-named is a bit odd.  And that occurred before the launch of LRO, so the story is clearly confused.  It was actually the possibility of earth-based observations of the impact that was being discussed.  The impact was near the equator and if it had been delayed it could have struck the surface near one of the Apollo sites.  I suspect a hasty decision to de-orbit while it was still possible (as fuel was almost depleted) to preclude the possibility of an uncontrolled impact further west.   I think Foust's sources were confused on that point.


That's not what I heard. I heard its just that their landing plan(time & location) just could not meet LADEE's flyover time or orbit. NASA sent request too late when CE3 team already had most things in plan settled. NASA understood it and still carried certain observation and nobody got frakked off for that.

https://spacenews.com/foust-forward-the-challenges-to-chinese-space-cooperation/

"Before we celebrate a new era in U.S.-China space cooperation, though, there are obstacles to overcome on both sides of the Pacific. Pace lamented a lack of trust between the U.S. and China. He cited as an example the difficulties coordinating with China a planned impact of an unnamed Chinese spacecraft on the moon: American scientists were interested in observing that impact with NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, and exchanged information on orbits with the intent on coordinating observations of the impact.

That impact, though, ultimately occurred without any notification of time or location by the Chinese, “much to the irritation of the U.S. scientists who spent a lot of time on this,” Pace said. “This is not the way to build trust.”


I will also add that I was told about this by a senior NASA planetary science official long before this October 2018 article was published.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 05/18/2021 01:26 am
This was an interesting thing... I think we can add a bit more.  The Foust article was published in late 2018.  At that time only one Chinese spacecraft had crashed on the Moon - Chang'e 1, intentionally deorbited - so calling it un-named is a bit odd.  And that occurred before the launch of LRO, so the story is clearly confused.  It was actually the possibility of earth-based observations of the impact that was being discussed.  The impact was near the equator and if it had been delayed it could have struck the surface near one of the Apollo sites.  I suspect a hasty decision to de-orbit while it was still possible (as fuel was almost depleted) to preclude the possibility of an uncontrolled impact further west.   I think Foust's sources were confused on that point.


That's not what I heard. I heard its just that their landing plan(time & location) just could not meet LADEE's flyover time or orbit. NASA sent request too late when CE3 team already had most things in plan settled. NASA understood it and still carried certain observation and nobody got frakked off for that.

https://spacenews.com/foust-forward-the-challenges-to-chinese-space-cooperation/

"Before we celebrate a new era in U.S.-China space cooperation, though, there are obstacles to overcome on both sides of the Pacific. Pace lamented a lack of trust between the U.S. and China. He cited as an example the difficulties coordinating with China a planned impact of an unnamed Chinese spacecraft on the moon: American scientists were interested in observing that impact with NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, and exchanged information on orbits with the intent on coordinating observations of the impact.

That impact, though, ultimately occurred without any notification of time or location by the Chinese, “much to the irritation of the U.S. scientists who spent a lot of time on this,” Pace said. “This is not the way to build trust.”

I will also add that I was told about this by a senior NASA planetary science official long before this October 2018 article was published.

No, it was not actually an impact event. Pace got that wrong. NASA wanted to use LADEE to monitor the descent of Chang'e 3 in December 2013. The agreement with the Chinese was that NASA would provide LRO imagery of the landing site, along with help to process and interpret the data. I don't know the specifics of that, but somebody designated by NASA actually helped the Chinese with the data. The deal was that in return, China would provide NASA with the location and time of the CE-3 descent burn so that LADEE could monitor it in an effort to determine how much exhaust gas was actually produced. This was because one of LADEE's objectives was to determine the extent of the lunar exosphere. (LADEE ceased operations in April 2014.)

What happened was that NASA kept up its side of the deal, but then the Chinese never provided the data that they agreed to provide, so LADEE did not have any pointing information. I heard this story in 2014 from a NASA official who was rather angry about it, because he was personally involved in getting the congressional waiver. His attitude was that after that, NASA was not going to help China out with further lunar missions. However, it did happen several years later. I kept quiet about this for a long time, but after Pace talked about it (getting some of the details wrong because he was not at NASA at that time), I don't think I need to be quiet about it.

You have to think about how NASA officials looked at this--they were under the Wolf restriction for a long time and they asked for a waiver to talk to the Chinese. Then they got screwed on the deal. That's part of the context whenever anybody talks about future cooperation with China--there is already an existence proof that it can go wrong.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/18/2021 02:53 am

You have to think about how NASA officials looked at this--they were under the Wolf restriction for a long time and they asked for a waiver to talk to the Chinese. Then they got screwed on the deal. That's part of the context whenever anybody talks about future cooperation with China--there is already an existence proof that it can go wrong.

It seems to rather extreme to hold one event eight years ago as a justification for any future cooperation. 
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: shijiav on 05/18/2021 04:42 am
That's not what I heard. I heard its just that their landing plan(time & location) just could not meet LADEE's flyover time or orbit. NASA sent request too late when CE3 team already had most things in plan settled. NASA understood it and still carried certain observation and nobody got frakked off for that.

https://spacenews.com/foust-forward-the-challenges-to-chinese-space-cooperation/

"Before we celebrate a new era in U.S.-China space cooperation, though, there are obstacles to overcome on both sides of the Pacific. Pace lamented a lack of trust between the U.S. and China. He cited as an example the difficulties coordinating with China a planned impact of an unnamed Chinese spacecraft on the moon: American scientists were interested in observing that impact with NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, and exchanged information on orbits with the intent on coordinating observations of the impact.

That impact, though, ultimately occurred without any notification of time or location by the Chinese, “much to the irritation of the U.S. scientists who spent a lot of time on this,” Pace said. “This is not the way to build trust.”


I will also add that I was told about this by a senior NASA planetary science official long before this October 2018 article was published.
Wait, observations of the impact of an unnamed Chinese spacecraft before 2018 using LRO?
There were 2 Chinese spacecraft impacted the moon which is CE1 and CE5 ascent stage giving the 2018 article time it must be CE1, but according to WIKI CE1 was deorbited on 1 March 2009 and LRO was launched on    September 15, 2009.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: sdsds on 05/18/2021 05:22 am
Frankly I doubt most observers/analysts who aren't steeped in the culture of modern China can hope to understand how China — and in particular the Communist Party of China — structure the release of information through various media channels, either domestically within China or globally.

All I know for sure is: they don't do it like we do!

My hope is that when the time comes they release a beautiful photo that makes the front pages of every newspaper around the world. I would see that as a media success for China! I hope they see it that way too.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/18/2021 06:15 am
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1394534489376759808?s=19

I have no idea what that really means, or if this is planned.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jasjesjos on 05/18/2021 06:41 am
Judging by the comments on the announcement, the Chinese are equally as frustrated about the lack of photos as we are.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/18/2021 08:11 am
Fantastic May 14th analysis by GMV's Daniel Estévez:

https://destevez.net/2021/05/tianwen-1-landing/

Some outstanding tidbits:

Quote
[...]turns out that the reason why the apoapsis altitude keeps decreasing slowly is the non-spherical gravity of Mars, rather than atmospheric drag at periapsis (its effect is several orders of magnitude weaker)

I estimated that 900 kg of fuel would remain after the phasing into the reconnaissance orbit. There have been four small apoapsis raising burns since then, so perhaps around 850 kg remained for the deorbit burn. Using this and a dry mass of 2500 kg gives a burn duration of 24 seconds with the 3 kN thruster, and 22 kg of spent fuel.

During the Chang’e 5 mission, which was composed of several stages, we were able to see different ranges of APIDs disappear from the telemetry as some of the stages separated and were left behind. This has also happened with Tianwen-1. Since the start of the mission, we saw that the real time telemetry sent data from two spacecraft IDs: 82 and 245. When the spacecraft was launched from Earth, the data corresponding to spacecraft 82 contained mostly static data, so we believed this to be assigned to the lander, which would be dormant. All the telemetry we’ve been analysing, such as the state vectors and ADCS telemetry has been from spacecraft 245.

Interestingly, no telemetry replay over high-speed data was seen after the collision avoidance burn. After most of the manoeuvres the data recorded while the spacecraft was using the low-gain antenna is played back over high-speed data. In this case perhaps it was replayed after the landing, since monitoring the progress of the lander in real time would have been the priority.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Atlantis83 on 05/18/2021 09:49 am
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1394534489376759808?s=19
I have no idea what that really means, or if this is planned.
Yes, it its strange. But when we looking on the next planned steps it feels like the whole ground operations of Zhurong are slow like a snail:
- 22nd May: Driving down the Rover to the Martian surface (in 4 days)
- 27th May: They will do a photo session between Zhurong and the descent module (5 days later!)

By the way: Here is the full translated text of the Weibo comment Cosmic Penguin referring, too.
Quote
Lately, a lot of people have asked why there is still no picture of the Zhurong rover. Is there a problem with the rover after two or three days of landing? But don't worry, we'll explain the reason why there is no picture yet:
As shown in the picture, an independent direct-to-ground communication method was used on the day of landing. The transmission rate of this ground-to-ground communication mode is only 16 bit / s. This means 2 bytes per second. Below this bandwidth, only the detector status can be judged and it is extremely difficult to realize the image return. If a 100K low-definition image is not compressed, it will take approximately 14 hours to transfer. That little picture thumbnail would then return to earth. But we have not been able to do this so far. The bandwidth is occupied by Zhurong's sensors and controls.
 
However, after three days of Mars, i.e. tonight, the rover will attempt to establish a UHF communication link with the Tianwen-1 in orbit for the first time over the landing area. The overflight takes 8 to 10 minutes. If the configuration is correct, 20 MBit (2.5 MB) of data can be returned daily. An X-band communication link is then established every 3 days. Each communication on this communication link achieves a data volume of 6.25 MB (50 MBit).

So if all goes well, tonight (it is currently 3:30 p.m. in Beijing) you may receive the first data packet of around 2.5MB from Zhurong. Let's look forward to the small data package with 2.5 Mbit. If it doesn't include a photo of Mars, don't be discouraged. Wait a few more days and the data will be sent back one by one. I believe that sooner or later we will see the first photo sent from the surface of Mars in our country!

https://twitter.com/infoshymkent/status/1394557149922086913 (https://twitter.com/infoshymkent/status/1394557149922086913)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/18/2021 12:40 pm
...finally an official statement confirming the TW-1 orbiter has moved to the 8.2h period communications orbit on May 17 ~midnight UTC. The 1st UHF link with the rover was established yesterday.

Zhurong "is currently making initial survey of surrounding environment & system checks".

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/hkfrYGZMhGLVGF-fiaAodQ
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/18/2021 04:37 pm
Some exciting look-aheads of what Zhurong might be about to explore... including a potential mud volcano!

https://astronomycommunity.nature.com/posts/what-might-the-z (https://astronomycommunity.nature.com/posts/what-might-the-z)

EDIT to add some key quotes:
Quote
Utopia Planitia has many candidate mud volcanoes and the extraordinary possibility of exploring one with this mission is undeniably one of the most exciting scenarios [...] Mud volcanism is caused by the diapiric rise of less dense muddy slurry which can originate through a number of processes. If it occurred in Utopia, it was possibly caused by exertion of pressure in the subsurface due to freeze-down. In this way, all known geological processes in the region might be linked up: a) the region might have or not have been an ancient ocean but it was b) resurface by volcanism and c) sequestered a lot of ice in the subsurface which resulted in d) alteration and extrusion of muddy, altered materials. Even at low temperatures, small amounts of fluids within ice can dramatically alter minerals. Though the idea of modern day life on Mars is a controversial one, the facts remain that: 1) methane periodically occurs in the Martian atmosphere inexplicably, 2) mud volcanism often associated with methane outgassing seems to have occurred in the landing site area, and 3) the modern subsurface of Mars is habitable from a energy-water-porosity standpoint (Tarnas et al., 2021). It is unlikely that mud volcanism is occurring today, but nonetheless, exploration of surface materials and expelled subsurface materials in the landing site area presents an opportunity for groundbreaking discovery by Zhurong and its excellent science team.

One of the most direct ways its observations might affect planetary science is by searching for subsurface ice in-situ using a ground penetrating radar. This instrument will be able to resolve boundaries in fundamentally different types of materials such as ice, empty pore space and rock/soil. The Mars Surface Compound Detector (MCSD) will be able to quantify surface chemistry and characterize spectral absorptions in minerals. A big question that can be addressed is whether the ice-mediated periglacial processes have led to aqueous alteration of volcanic protoliths. Many people assume that periglacial processes only lead to physical cracking and comminution of rocks (not chemical alteration), but when we look closely at minerals altered within Antarctic ice, we see evidence for intense alteration. Do we see altered minerals in the periglacial volcanic plains of Utopia Planitia? If the rover can travel far enough, it might be able to visit the edge of cliffs and troughs associated with polygonal terrain, revealing fundamental new insights into how periglacial processes have operated on Mars
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/19/2021 04:44 am
Just saw some murmurs (https://9ifly.spacety.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=94560&pid=841341&fromuid=19646) that the 1st Mars surface photos from the Tianwen-1 lander/rover will be released in a few hours (possibly at the 7 pm news on state media CCTV, which would be after 11:00 UTC).
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/19/2021 08:40 am
Some new (?) info about the rover's thermal control, from a Chinese-speaker:

https://twitter.com/Eurekablog/status/1394800267183460357

Quote
In order to regulate its temperature, Zhurong is covered with aerogel and can make use of two containers (the two circles on the top deck) to store heat during the day and free it up during the night, thanks to phase-changing undecane.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/19/2021 08:44 am
https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/1394930830439591936?s=21
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: edzieba on 05/19/2021 08:49 am
That's a neat trick. Undecane melts at 246K-248K, and Perseverence measured 191-254K in a similar latitude, so that would provide a stable temperature (within sink capacity) just below expected daytime temperature and well above nighttime temperature. An interesting mass trade vs. batteries for powering heaters, but probably more reliable (passive system vs. active system) and not subject to battery or solar cell degradation.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: centaurinasa on 05/19/2021 10:18 am
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1394936506691858432
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/19/2021 10:27 am
PICTURES (and sep video)!:
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1394962319780818944
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/19/2021 10:28 am
PICTURES (and sep video)!:
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1394962319780818944

Source:
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/UCsz3BgAogOpv7qP9fFczQ (https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/UCsz3BgAogOpv7qP9fFczQ)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Svetoslav on 05/19/2021 10:31 am
Good to see that southern Utopia is devoid of obstacles and suitable for driving. The northern part (Viking 2 location) is very rocky.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tolis on 05/19/2021 11:10 am
Well worth the wait!

There seem to be different types of rocks in the immediate vicinity of the lander, probably good news for rover science. There are also some bright, flat-looking patches of land off in the distance.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 05/19/2021 11:50 am
High resolution images from CNSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkeyQ9JbieU
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/19/2021 11:58 am
Original sized photos, via CNSA: http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n6759533/c6812021/content.html
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 05/19/2021 01:42 pm
From Xinhua

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-05/19/c_139956567.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jbenton on 05/19/2021 01:52 pm
Judging by the comments on the announcement, the Chinese are equally as frustrated about the lack of photos as we are.

Excellent Observation. I hope they're as happy as we are to now see some. Welcome to the Forum!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: 4throck on 05/19/2021 03:58 pm
There are also some bright, flat-looking patches of land off in the distance.

Possibly the parachute and backshell lying on the ground ?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Lumina on 05/19/2021 06:17 pm
There are also some bright, flat-looking patches of land off in the distance.

Possibly the parachute and backshell lying on the ground ?

They have instruments on the rover to look for subsurface ice, and they had time to pick the landing area while observing from orbit. Do we know if the CNSA selected a landing zone on the basis of likelihood of presence of shallow, subsurface ice?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 05/19/2021 06:46 pm
https://youtu.be/ep7Hb0_GPbU
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/19/2021 09:10 pm
There are also some bright, flat-looking patches of land off in the distance.

Possibly the parachute and backshell lying on the ground ?

They have instruments on the rover to look for subsurface ice, and they had time to pick the landing area while observing from orbit. Do we know if the CNSA selected a landing zone on the basis of likelihood of presence of shallow, subsurface ice?

Nothing published that I know.  Obviously they had similar constraints to any other solar powered mission - flat, smooth, not too far from the equator, below a critical altitude, not too much dust activity.  A couple of papers were published about dust at various candidate landing sites.

Having eliminated about 80% of Mars this way, presumably they went on to more specifics. I imagine CNSA wanted an area well away from other missions, to see something new. Whether or not the small cones of the region were an attraction, I don't know.  Ice is probably present at depth almost everywhere on Mars.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: tolis on 05/19/2021 09:55 pm
There are also some bright, flat-looking patches of land off in the distance.

Possibly the parachute and backshell lying on the ground ?

Could be. Personally I am inclined to think the patches are just larger versions of the bright, half-buried rocks close to the lander. We should find out when (if) hi-res versions of the images are downlinked or the lander is identified in images from orbit.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/19/2021 11:40 pm
May 20, 2021
RELEASE 21-067
NASA Statement on China’s Zhurong Mars Rover Photos

NASA Administrator Sen. Bill Nelson issued the following statement Wednesday after the China National Space Administration’s release of the first photos from the Zhurong Mars rover:

“Congratulations to the China National Space Administration on receiving the first images from the Zhurong Mars rover!” Nelson said. “As the international scientific community of robotic explorers on Mars grows, the United States and the world look forward to the discoveries Zhurong will make to advance humanity’s knowledge of the Red Planet. I look forward to future international discoveries, which will help inform and develop the capabilities needed to land human boots on Mars.”

CNSA’s successful landing of the Zhurong rover last week makes it only the second nation to ever land successfully on Mars. Zhurong joins active NASA missions – the Curiosity and Perseverance rovers and Insight Lander – in exploring the surface of the Red Planet.

For more information on NASA and agency activities, visit:

https://www.nasa.gov

-end-

Marc Etkind / Jackie McGuinness
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1600
[email protected] / [email protected]

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos (https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 05/20/2021 01:08 am
I think the bright patches near the horizon are examples of the bright drifts which form short bright lines in HiRISE and CTX images of the region.  Rocks seem unlikely to me when drifts are common.  And there are three so the parachute is not a sufficient explanation even if one is the parachute.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: frank808 on 05/20/2021 01:55 am
Rover's Twitter account run by fun
https://twitter.com/MarsZhurong

HD landing simulation form CAST's 5th institute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g1ulsugHuM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g1ulsugHuM)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: spacexplorer on 05/20/2021 06:37 am
https://youtu.be/ep7Hb0_GPbU
Did the lander turn after separation?  ???
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/20/2021 08:04 am

Did the lander turn after separation?  ???

It would need to orient itself into the correct attitude for entry
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jasjesjos on 05/20/2021 12:28 pm
I wonder, would we have gotten photos from Zhurong faster if Yinghuo 1 had made it to Mars?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: spacexplorer on 05/20/2021 06:59 pm

Did the lander turn after separation?  ???

It would need to orient itself into the correct attitude for entry
This is not visible in animations.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/21/2021 12:29 am

Did the lander turn after separation?  ???

It would need to orient itself into the correct attitude for entry
This is not visible in animations.

Doesn't mean it was not needed.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/21/2021 12:32 am
I wonder, would we have gotten photos from Zhurong faster if Yinghuo 1 had made it to Mars?

It was quite small, 115 kg, with only 90 W of power.  I doubt it would have been designed to provide support for a mission 20 years in the future that had not yet been proposed at the time.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 05/21/2021 02:30 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdptwD6-WT4
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/21/2021 04:58 am
Weird, since there are many excellent animations of Zhurong available.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: chetan_chpd on 05/21/2021 05:13 am
is this a colorized image or original color pic from lander/rover?

(from a youtube video thumbnail)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ugordan on 05/21/2021 07:40 am
Looks colorized to me.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/21/2021 10:38 am
May 20, 2021
RELEASE 21-067
NASA Statement on China’s Zhurong Mars Rover Photos

NASA Administrator Sen. Bill Nelson issued the following statement Wednesday after the China National Space Administration’s release of the first photos from the Zhurong Mars rover:

“Congratulations to the China National Space Administration on receiving the first images from the Zhurong Mars rover!” Nelson said. “As the international scientific community of robotic explorers on Mars grows, the United States and the world look forward to the discoveries Zhurong will make to advance humanity’s knowledge of the Red Planet. I look forward to future international discoveries, which will help inform and develop the capabilities needed to land human boots on Mars.”

CNSA’s successful landing of the Zhurong rover last week makes it only the second nation to ever land successfully on Mars. Zhurong joins active NASA missions – the Curiosity and Perseverance rovers and Insight Lander – in exploring the surface of the Red Planet.

For more information on NASA and agency activities, visit:

https://www.nasa.gov

-end-

Marc Etkind / Jackie McGuinness
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1600
[email protected] / [email protected]

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos (https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos)

And an answer from the other side: https://twitter.com/ChinaScience/status/1395303290494144512
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: chetan_chpd on 05/21/2021 12:51 pm
Looks colorized to me.
found a bigger one from twitter https://twitter.com/alanmir (https://twitter.com/alanmir)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E13rMO8WUAIRTp0?format=jpg&name=large)

also a 3rd image?

https://twitter.com/Kaynouky/status/1395254469001154561
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jasjesjos on 05/21/2021 04:33 pm
May 20, 2021
RELEASE 21-067
NASA Statement on China’s Zhurong Mars Rover Photos

NASA Administrator Sen. Bill Nelson issued the following statement Wednesday after the China National Space Administration’s release of the first photos from the Zhurong Mars rover:

“Congratulations to the China National Space Administration on receiving the first images from the Zhurong Mars rover!” Nelson said. “As the international scientific community of robotic explorers on Mars grows, the United States and the world look forward to the discoveries Zhurong will make to advance humanity’s knowledge of the Red Planet. I look forward to future international discoveries, which will help inform and develop the capabilities needed to land human boots on Mars.”

CNSA’s successful landing of the Zhurong rover last week makes it only the second nation to ever land successfully on Mars. Zhurong joins active NASA missions – the Curiosity and Perseverance rovers and Insight Lander – in exploring the surface of the Red Planet.

For more information on NASA and agency activities, visit:

https://www.nasa.gov

-end-

Marc Etkind / Jackie McGuinness
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1600
[email protected] / [email protected]

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos (https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos)

I think that settles the debate on whether China is the second or third country to successfully land on Mars.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: russianhalo117 on 05/21/2021 04:53 pm
May 20, 2021
RELEASE 21-067
NASA Statement on China’s Zhurong Mars Rover Photos

NASA Administrator Sen. Bill Nelson issued the following statement Wednesday after the China National Space Administration’s release of the first photos from the Zhurong Mars rover:

“Congratulations to the China National Space Administration on receiving the first images from the Zhurong Mars rover!” Nelson said. “As the international scientific community of robotic explorers on Mars grows, the United States and the world look forward to the discoveries Zhurong will make to advance humanity’s knowledge of the Red Planet. I look forward to future international discoveries, which will help inform and develop the capabilities needed to land human boots on Mars.”

CNSA’s successful landing of the Zhurong rover last week makes it only the second nation to ever land successfully on Mars. Zhurong joins active NASA missions – the Curiosity and Perseverance rovers and Insight Lander – in exploring the surface of the Red Planet.

For more information on NASA and agency activities, visit:

https://www.nasa.gov

-end-

Marc Etkind / Jackie McGuinness
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1600
[email protected] / [email protected]

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos (https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos)

I think that settles the debate on whether China is the second or third country to successfully land on Mars.
CNSA discounts the successful Soviet Mars landing(s) even though they succumbed quickly for unknown reasons. Since they did not perform any science and survive their first SOL NASA did not count them.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: CuddlyRocket on 05/21/2021 06:40 pm

I think that settles the debate on whether China is the second or third country to successfully land on Mars.

Hardly. Both NASA and CNSA have an obvious interest in discounting Mars 3. If neutrals - or better yet, Russia - discount Mars 3, then it would be more likely to settle the debate. But even then I think it's unlikely. There will always be those who disagree because fundamentally it depends on what your definition of a successful landing on Mars is. Until there is agreement on such a definition, the debate will continue. This is similar to the continuing debate over which was the first successful manned powered flight on Earth. Continuing because there is no agreement on what the definition of a successful manned powered flight was!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Jrcraft on 05/21/2021 09:00 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdptwD6-WT4
I was watching it and noticed that too. Could they not make their own animation?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/21/2021 09:26 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdptwD6-WT4
I was watching it and noticed that too. Could they not make their own animation?

Or use one of the excellent animations already produced about this mission.

I suspect it's just sloppy journalism.  Not the first time it has happened.  Can we move on?

There are much better animations available   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkSslYfCeMk
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/22/2021 06:16 am
The rover has rolled off the lander's deck onto Martian surface earlier today at 02:40 UTC. (https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1395985541871542274)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 05/22/2021 06:29 am
China's first Mars rover drives onto red planet's surface

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-05/22/c_139963058.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: luhai167 on 05/22/2021 06:58 am
I wonder, would we have gotten photos from Zhurong faster if Yinghuo 1 had made it to Mars?

Well, Yinghuo 1 is too small to make a difference, but if the 2 ton orbiter from 2015 didn't get canceled then it will certainly help. (assume it remains in Mars Orbit) Which would mean China is on the 3-step discrete mission path rather than a single heavy bundle. So this alternative universe would have a 2nd orbiter in 2018, and then just the lander in 2020.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/22/2021 08:25 am
Sequence of additional photos taken by all 4 HazCams (one pair each at the front and back) of the rover driving off the ramps, via CCTV:

https://h5.video.weibo.com/show/1034:4639686283690111 (https://h5.video.weibo.com/show/1034:4639686283690111)

EDIT - in GIF form:

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1396020280301170691
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 05/22/2021 09:30 am
1080p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdU6Lyvjq3E
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: sanman on 05/22/2021 01:11 pm
Here's some more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z6_yAkZqbU
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 05/22/2021 07:14 pm
Moderator:
No, SpaceX fan-boi trolling must not leak into every thread.

If it's funny, post it in the party thread.

If it's not, don't post it at all.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: JulesVerneATV on 05/22/2021 08:34 pm
So far only NASA JPL and the Chinese have the feat of successful Mars Lander or Rover Missons. Musk will probably get there with Space-X, I'm not sure about Amazon Bezos but for now politically the China Landing seems to be a big deal.  NASA welcomes the Landing in public statement but also sees them as rivals I believe a phrase used by either Bill Nelson or Pam Melroy was that China was pushing for 'space superiority' and 'aggressive competitor'. Landing and having an operational machine on the surface is not easy, I'm not sure why the European missions have failed or why Russia and Japan had bad luck, some talk of a 'Mars Curse'. The Rover has some good scientific instruments, there appear to be some different features on the landscape but not too many big rocks or boulders, should be interesting to hear what the Chinese Rover finds alongside the other two NASA missions making discoveries.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/23/2021 01:50 am
I wonder, would we have gotten photos from Zhurong faster if Yinghuo 1 had made it to Mars?

Well, Yinghuo 1 is too small to make a difference, but if the 2 ton orbiter from 2015 didn't get canceled then it will certainly help. (assume it remains in Mars Orbit) Which would mean China is on the 3-step discrete mission path rather than a single heavy bundle. So this alternative universe would have a 2nd orbiter in 2018, and then just the lander in 2020.

Do you have a link to this two ton orbiter, including when it was proposed?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: luhai167 on 05/23/2021 07:39 am
I wonder, would we have gotten photos from Zhurong faster if Yinghuo 1 had made it to Mars?

Well, Yinghuo 1 is too small to make a difference, but if the 2 ton orbiter from 2015 didn't get canceled then it will certainly help. (assume it remains in Mars Orbit) Which would mean China is on the 3-step discrete mission path rather than a single heavy bundle. So this alternative universe would have a 2nd orbiter in 2018, and then just the lander in 2020.

Do you have a link to this two ton orbiter, including when it was proposed?

The international presentation is in 2011 just before YH-1 was launched, though I have seen reference to 3 step plan for Mars as early as 2002 in Chinese with 2020 being the target date for the land phase.

Btw this presented was shared in the forum back then there was quite a bit of discussion about it.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: luhai167 on 05/23/2021 08:25 am
News report on the preparation of Rover decent. Apparently they recreated the landing site terrain and run it through the replica before issuing the Rover to come down.

https://m.chinanews.com/wap/detail/zw/gn/2021/05-23/9483612.shtml
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/23/2021 10:26 pm
I wonder, would we have gotten photos from Zhurong faster if Yinghuo 1 had made it to Mars?

Well, Yinghuo 1 is too small to make a difference, but if the 2 ton orbiter from 2015 didn't get canceled then it will certainly help. (assume it remains in Mars Orbit) Which would mean China is on the 3-step discrete mission path rather than a single heavy bundle. So this alternative universe would have a 2nd orbiter in 2018, and then just the lander in 2020.

Do you have a link to this two ton orbiter, including when it was proposed?

The international presentation is in 2011 just before YH-1 was launched, though I have seen reference to 3 step plan for Mars as early as 2002 in Chinese with 2020 being the target date for the land phase.

Btw this presented was shared in the forum back then there was quite a bit of discussion about it.

Thanks!  I am surprised I missed this.

Clearly this was cancelled in favour of the later plan, now realised, which was very bold an ambitious at the time. 

Interesting that even then the goal was to partner with ESA's deep space network.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 05/24/2021 07:13 am

Clearly this was cancelled in favour of the later plan, now realised, which was very bold an ambitious at the time. 

It is marked as a "proposed" architecture. It was not an official program and thus it was not cancelled
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 05/24/2021 01:08 pm
Zhang Rongqiao (chief designer, Tianwen-1) and James Head (professor, Brown University) about the landing area
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03dxECRgcwU
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/24/2021 02:20 pm
First drive from the rover's perspective!

https://twitter.com/_RomanTkachenko/status/1396801689722687490 (https://twitter.com/_RomanTkachenko/status/1396801689722687490)

https://twitter.com/3Dmattias/status/1396232346903453700 (https://twitter.com/3Dmattias/status/1396232346903453700)
Plus "the hanging flag" :)
https://twitter.com/landru79/status/1396163843504713730

And some colorized high-resolution rear hazcam views:
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/24/2021 02:30 pm
Some interesting remarks about the "fire" ideogram "tattooed" on Zhurong's "front" (remembering Mars is the "fire planet" in China). Also, nice reminder about the rover's suspension system, which is active and allows the main body to be lifted/tilted to different positions as desired.

https://twitter.com/Eurekablog/status/1396077503282876421
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 05/24/2021 02:39 pm
News report on the preparation of Rover decent. Apparently they recreated the landing site terrain and run it through the replica before issuing the Rover to come down.

https://m.chinanews.com/wap/detail/zw/gn/2021/05-23/9483612.shtml

Worth noting the test rig/facility is visibly quite similar to what has been developed for Rosalynd Franklin and Kazachok in Italy. However, it seems the Chinese facility doesn't seem to account for variable slopes (although they might have done those tests in the past and have just now recreated the actual landing site), which the rig in Europe does, and the "lightening" cables to prop the rover up by 2/3rds of its Earth weight and simulate the Martian weight have a "tension concentrator" -not sure about the technical term- attachment to just one point on the rover's deck, instead of the three hoist points available for Rosalynd Franklin.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: demorcef on 05/24/2021 02:44 pm
CONGRATULATIONS CHINA!  :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/24/2021 08:50 pm

Clearly this was cancelled in favour of the later plan, now realised, which was very bold an ambitious at the time. 

It is marked as a "proposed" architecture. It was not an official program and thus it was not cancelled

Abandoned, shelved, whatever.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: centaurinasa on 05/25/2021 07:36 am
https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/1397039723227623426
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: shijiav on 05/26/2021 04:41 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d6xf5_cG-0
TW-1 chef designer interview
Don`t know if auto-translate is enabled.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/26/2021 09:22 am
Any MRO confirmation yet?

We don't need MRO confirmation.  We know it's on Mars and working. MRO imagery would be nice to see though,for local context and possible features of interest.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 05/26/2021 09:27 am
Zhurong’s twin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKqarXS_c20
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: woods170 on 05/26/2021 09:42 am
Any MRO confirmation yet?


What for? You doubt that the Chinese put a rover on Mars?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: newfrontiers on 05/26/2021 01:34 pm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: newfrontiers on 05/26/2021 01:36 pm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: newfrontiers on 05/26/2021 01:37 pm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: newfrontiers on 05/26/2021 01:39 pm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: newfrontiers on 05/26/2021 01:39 pm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: jasjesjos on 05/28/2021 06:06 pm
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1393539747285377026

Do we have any info on when the images from the mutual photography session will come back?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Steve G on 06/03/2021 02:11 pm
The silence is becoming deafening. Through other channels, even some of the most informed and sober-minded people I've been communicating with, are having concerns that this may be more than limited communications or the Chinese holding out for a big splash photo release. Has anyone heard from your sources about communication sessions from the rover that could retire these concerns?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/03/2021 10:45 pm
The silence is becoming deafening. Through other channels, even some of the most informed and sober-minded people I've been communicating with, are having concerns that this may be more than limited communications or the Chinese holding out for a big splash photo release. Has anyone heard from your sources about communication sessions from the rover that could retire these concerns?

Why assume the worst? 
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Steve G on 06/03/2021 10:48 pm
I'm not assuming the worst. I'm passing on concerns from others far more qualified than me to make them.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 06/04/2021 03:41 am
Only a few posts up Cosmic Penguin posted a timeline including:

"May 28 - 1st scientific data downlink"

So not much reason for concern on June 3.  They may want a full surface panorama before releasing it, rather than just a few frames. 
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: whitelancer64 on 06/04/2021 03:58 am
The silence is becoming deafening. Through other channels, even some of the most informed and sober-minded people I've been communicating with, are having concerns that this may be more than limited communications or the Chinese holding out for a big splash photo release. Has anyone heard from your sources about communication sessions from the rover that could retire these concerns?

China has been extremely tight-fisted with the data from their space science missions. We are simply spoiled by NASA where every major event is publicly livestreamed, pictures are posted online, and there are press conferences with updates every week.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Liss on 06/04/2021 07:02 am
Only a few posts up Cosmic Penguin posted a timeline including:

"May 28 - 1st scientific data downlink"

So not much reason for concern on June 3.  They may want a full surface panorama before releasing it, rather than just a few frames. 
Phil, they had announced mutual imaging of the rover and lander for May 27. It'd be a major political event, incuding visit of a Politbureau member to BACC to witness and to congratulate the project. It's really strange and worrying that it didn't occur.
Yet it could be a small hitch preventing the planned event -- for example, a failure in wifi comms between the lander camera and the rover. Let's wait and see.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/04/2021 07:06 am
The silence is becoming deafening. Through other channels, even some of the most informed and sober-minded people I've been communicating with, are having concerns that this may be more than limited communications or the Chinese holding out for a big splash photo release. Has anyone heard from your sources about communication sessions from the rover that could retire these concerns?

China has been extremely tight-fisted with the data from their space science missions. We are simply spoiled by NASA where every major event is publicly livestreamed, pictures are posted online, and there are press conferences with updates every week.

However the data does get put up for general access eventually and there have been quite a few papers on the Chang'e missions.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/04/2021 02:33 pm
Doesn't seem concerning, apart from the dismal release policy adopted thus far.

https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1400820882772090880
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 06/04/2021 03:19 pm
China has been extremely tight-fisted with the data from their space science missions.

not really. have you followed Chang'e 4?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 06/04/2021 04:31 pm
China has been extremely tight-fisted with the data from their space science missions.

not really. have you followed Chang'e 4?

Have they released scientific data? I think they have been very open with mission operations for CE3-5. I remember watching the CE3 landing live on TV, which was a big surprise to me. But they have been a lot more secretive about science results and data. I've attended some of the past few LPSC conferences and there's a view there that the Chinese still don't understand how to participate in international science forums. There is the hope that they'll figure that out and do better in the future.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/04/2021 06:16 pm
China has been extremely tight-fisted with the data from their space science missions.

not really. have you followed Chang'e 4?

Have they released scientific data? I think they have been very open with mission operations for CE3-5. I remember watching the CE3 landing live on TV, which was a big surprise to me. But they have been a lot more secretive about science results and data. I've attended some of the past few LPSC conferences and there's a view there that the Chinese still don't understand how to participate in international science forums. There is the hope that they'll figure that out and do better in the future.

Yes, and in PDS format (even including Chang’e 5, since March this year):  https://moon.bao.ac.cn/index_en.jsp (https://moon.bao.ac.cn/index_en.jsp)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/04/2021 06:24 pm
Doesn't seem concerning, apart from the dismal release policy adopted thus far.

https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1400820882772090880

I actually don’t know to be sure, these two are really rumors - at least one of the sources seems credible but well I wouldn’t call it convincing. The limited communications sessions is indeed a drawback but it really feels strange to think of how other scientific investigations - with instruments like GPR, LIBS and IR spectrometers - can be performed and how can it drive around if even downlinking some photos seems so difficult. It also seems strange that we don’t get much results from the orbiter either (though to br fair UAE’s Hope haven’t released a lot of results just yet).

However…the years I have followed Chinese spaceflight tells me that such things like withholding photos and other things that can wow the public for…reasons do sometimes happen.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/05/2021 04:20 am
China has been extremely tight-fisted with the data from their space science missions.

not really. have you followed Chang'e 4?

Have they released scientific data? I think they have been very open with mission operations for CE3-5. I remember watching the CE3 landing live on TV, which was a big surprise to me. But they have been a lot more secretive about science results and data. I've attended some of the past few LPSC conferences and there's a view there that the Chinese still don't understand how to participate in international science forums. There is the hope that they'll figure that out and do better in the future.

Yes, and in PDS format (even including Chang’e 5, since March this year):  https://moon.bao.ac.cn/index_en.jsp (https://moon.bao.ac.cn/index_en.jsp)

Also multiple papers in high level international journals.  Here are just some from Chang'e 4.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0012821X19305217
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0012821X20300601
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2018JE005577
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2019GL084458
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0019103520301639
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0012821X20303228
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/9/eaay6898?intcmp=trendmd-adv
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12278-3

So they don't need to "do better" and they are not "tight fisted" with the data.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/05/2021 04:35 am
Already there are a number of papers with preliminary results from Chang'e 5, plus many more earlier papers describing the target region.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0012821X2100114X
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/13/4/590
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2021GL092434
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0019103521001603
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/13/8/1515

All I had to do was type "Chang'e 5" into Google Scholar.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 06/05/2021 06:56 am
I am in the 'China releases data and publishes plenty' camp so this is not a criticism of their approach... but I feel bound to point out that only one of the papers listed above is based on Chang'e 5 results (the second in the list), and that is only on measuring its landed location.  The others are all basically pre-mission studies of the landing area using other datasets.  They will be useful in interpreting the actual results when we get them but they are not Chang'e 5 results.  The CE4 papers (and there are lots more) are real results based on the mission's extensive data, especially the ground-penetrating radar and infrared spectroscopy.  I expect we will get the CE5 results soon enough when their meticulously crafted papers are accepted. 
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/05/2021 09:58 am
I am in the 'China releases data and publishes plenty' camp so this is not a criticism of their approach... but I feel bound to point out that only one of the papers listed above is based on Chang'e 5 results (the second in the list), and that is only on measuring its landed location.  The others are all basically pre-mission studies of the landing area using other datasets.  They will be useful in interpreting the actual results when we get them but they are not Chang'e 5 results.  The CE4 papers (and there are lots more) are real results based on the mission's extensive data, especially the ground-penetrating radar and infrared spectroscopy.  I expect we will get the CE5 results soon enough when their meticulously crafted papers are accepted.


It is still very early days! I only put the post landing papers. The amount of published pre-landing site characterisation is on Mars with what has been done for NASA Mars missions.

There has been less for Zhurong, but then the final landing site was not selected until quite late.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Don2 on 06/05/2021 08:29 pm
I think the Chinese are having serious problems. China is only the second nation to return a picture from the Martian surface, and the Zhurong landing is a huge triumph for Chinese aerospace. So why so few pictures? Also, we have seen very little from the orbiter. I think that points to a serious failure of some kind.

The rate of release reminds me of Galileo, which of course had a crippled communication system.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/05/2021 09:33 pm
I think the Chinese are having serious problems. China is only the second nation to return a picture from the Martian surface, and the Zhurong landing is a huge triumph for Chinese aerospace. So why so few pictures? Also, we have seen very little from the orbiter. I think that points to a serious failure of some kind.

The rate of release reminds me of Galileo, which of course had a crippled communication system.

There is no actual evidence except that image release differs from your expectations.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/07/2021 09:49 am
Tianwen-1's orbiter High Resolution Camera finally came up with a photo of the lander/rover landing site, taken on June 2 10:00 UTC.
From lower left to upper right: Heat Shield, Parachute/Backshell, Rover, Lander.

Interesting to see the rover seems to have barely moved at all since rolling off on May 22...

Source (http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n6758823/n6758838/c6812111/content.html)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 06/07/2021 10:53 am
With labels in English, Zhurong’s landing site: before and after
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsDBEJ57swU
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/07/2021 01:24 pm
Peter Grindrod has found the exact location using MRO’s Context Camera photos (CTX image F04_037553_2068), he puts the landing coordinates as 25.066N, 109.926E:

https://twitter.com/peter_grindrod/status/1401868669215457281?s=21
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/07/2021 04:35 pm
Seems it did move after all (albeit circling the lander)?

https://twitter.com/PRCMarsRover/status/1401892115743838214

By the way, could someone point out to me what the "wispy" clearer ground patterns in the area are?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/07/2021 10:37 pm

By the way, could someone point out to me what the "wispy" clearer ground patterns in the area are?

Light coloured aeolian ripples?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/08/2021 02:16 pm

By the way, could someone point out to me what the "wispy" clearer ground patterns in the area are?

Light coloured aeolian ripples?

Would that be dunes, or loose accumulations of sand? In other areas of Mars, dunes are usually darker than surrounding terrain in orbital images, but upon further thought it seems to correlate with the clear dunes accumulated in the craters around the landing site.

Zhurong was understood to be looking roughly due east when on the platform/descending on the ramp, and indeed the image looking in the distance when on top of the platform appears to show the two "wisps" due slightly South of East, to the left of the nearest crater. The lighter-colored North-South markings around the lander due to the landing engines' exhaust are also visible on Zhurong's images, especially those taken once the rover drove down the ramps, and seem to correlate well with their relative shade, just a tad darker than the natural features.

It's eye-catching that most of these dunes, or whatever they are, lie in a similar East-West orientation, although I guess prevailing winds must be pretty stable over that large plain :)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/08/2021 11:03 pm

By the way, could someone point out to me what the "wispy" clearer ground patterns in the area are?

Light coloured aeolian ripples?

Would that be dunes, or loose accumulations of sand? In other areas of Mars, dunes are usually darker than surrounding terrain in orbital images, but upon further thought it seems to correlate with the clear dunes accumulated in the craters around the landing site.

Zhurong was understood to be looking roughly due east when on the platform/descending on the ramp, and indeed the image looking in the distance when on top of the platform appears to show the two "wisps" due slightly South of East, to the left of the nearest crater. The lighter-colored North-South markings around the lander due to the landing engines' exhaust are also visible on Zhurong's images, especially those taken once the rover drove down the ramps, and seem to correlate well with their relative shade, just a tad darker than the natural features.

It's eye-catching that most of these dunes, or whatever they are, lie in a similar East-West orientation, although I guess prevailing winds must be pretty stable over that large plain :)

Small dunes/large ripples by their specific size and shape.  Some have proposed a separate category for aeolian deposits this size called "transverse aeolian ridges?

We see light and dark aeolian deposits on Mars, it depends on the material they are made from.  In some cases dark dunes are coated with light coloured dust.

Added in edit:  the HiRISE images below show these are small incipient barchan dunes
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/10/2021 09:13 am
Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter's HiRISE (https://www.uahirise.org/hipod/ESP_069665_2055) has now also taken photos of the landing site on June 6, showing the rover making a slight move in 4 days since the TW-1 orbiter photos were taken.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/10/2021 10:51 am
Details on both the lander and the rover are visible when you zoom in, including the ramps, rovermast, solar panels, and tracks
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Sizzy on 06/11/2021 02:14 am
Finally . pics taken from Zhurong rover on mars
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 06/11/2021 02:22 am
HERE are the original high-definition photos. Fascinating!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/11/2021 02:32 am
Image source?

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 06/11/2021 02:34 am
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/11/2021 02:47 am
Image source?

Also at http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n6758823/n6758838/c6812122/content.html (http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n6758823/n6758838/c6812122/content.html)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/11/2021 03:00 am
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com

Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together?  Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: luhai167 on 06/11/2021 03:04 am
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com

Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together?  Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it

In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.


“着巡合影”图,是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处,释放安装在车底部的分离相机,之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车,再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。

google translate

The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 06/11/2021 03:12 am
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com

Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together?  Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it

In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.


“着巡合影”图,是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处,释放安装在车底部的分离相机,之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车,再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。

google translate

The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.

That's the correct answer. Also need to mention that the Tianwen-1 orbiter took a selfie on the trip to Mars last September with similar measure, except that the camera was thrown into space instead of being placed on the ground!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/11/2021 03:14 am
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com

Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together?  Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it

In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.


“着巡合影”图,是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处,释放安装在车底部的分离相机,之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车,再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。

google translate

The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.

Found it just before you replied.  :)

For some reason the images there are not loading for me.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Jrcraft on 06/11/2021 03:16 am
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com

Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together?  Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it

In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.


“着巡合影”图,是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处,释放安装在车底部的分离相机,之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车,再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。

google translate

The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.

That's the correct answer. Also need to mention that the Tianwen-1 orbiter took a selfie on the trip to Mars last September with similar measure, except that the camera was thrown into space instead of being placed on the ground!

Do we know if the camera (the one deployed while en route to Mars) flew by Mars or not?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 06/11/2021 03:27 am
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com

Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together?  Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it

In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.


“着巡合影”图,是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处,释放安装在车底部的分离相机,之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车,再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。

google translate

The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.

That's the correct answer. Also need to mention that the Tianwen-1 orbiter took a selfie on the trip to Mars last September with similar measure, except that the camera was thrown into space instead of being placed on the ground!

Do we know if the camera (the one deployed while en route to Mars) flew by Mars or not?

I guess nobody has the ability to track such a small object in space! The power supply of the camera must be just powerful enough to take several pictures, send them back to the orbiter at the first time and nothing more. The orbiter probably won't be able to receive its signal any more once they are over ten or twenty meters apart.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Jrcraft on 06/11/2021 04:51 am
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com

Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together?  Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it

In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.


“着巡合影”图,是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处,释放安装在车底部的分离相机,之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车,再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。

google translate

The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.

That's the correct answer. Also need to mention that the Tianwen-1 orbiter took a selfie on the trip to Mars last September with similar measure, except that the camera was thrown into space instead of being placed on the ground!

Do we know if the camera (the one deployed while en route to Mars) flew by Mars or not?

I guess nobody has the ability to track such a small object in space! The power supply of the camera must be just powerful enough to take several pictures, send them back to the orbiter at the first time and nothing more. The orbiter probably won't be able to receive its signal any more once they are over ten or twenty meters apart.

The camera actually used Wi-Fi to transmit the images, pretty neat.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 06/11/2021 06:09 am
it finally appears like there is no camera on the lander
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: newfrontiers on 06/11/2021 06:34 am
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 06/11/2021 07:07 am
“中” character (refers to China)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 06/11/2021 07:32 am
Nature News  - Two spacecraft photograph China’s Zhurong rover on surface of Mars
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01588-6
A false colour image of the landing site from Joe Michalski shows the change in elevation and distance the rover is likely to cover.Credit: NASA/MSSS& ESA/DLR
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/11/2021 10:31 am
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com

Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together?  Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it

In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.


“着巡合影”图,是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处,释放安装在车底部的分离相机,之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车,再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。

google translate

The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.

That's SERIOUSLY nifty! Sucks China follows this overly cautious, offputting image release policy for such a valuable exploration mission that could serve them as much-needed good PR for the rest of the world - and frankly gets embarrassing when only complete silence is offered during critical periods. Still, it must be admitted releases such as this make up for a portion of the frustration.

Thank you for the images!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/11/2021 10:41 am
Top: Backshell clearly visible in the panorama.
Top middle: Vesicular rocks similar to the ones that spawned some conversation in Perseverance's site.

Middle: Those landing thrusters surely do pack a punch! Very clear how they scoured the ground. I wonder if the landing pack is based around two sets of 45 degree-canted thrusters?
Bottom middle:  :o As I was saying, they surely pack a punch.

Bottom: Clear view of the aeolian deposits discussed upthread by myself and Dalhousie.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ugordan on 06/11/2021 11:00 am
Middle: Those landing thrusters surely do pack a punch! Very clear how they scoured the ground. I wonder if the landing pack is based around two sets of 45 degree-canted thrusters?
Bottom middle:  :o As I was saying, they surely pack a punch.

I tried to find information on the lander descent propulsion, but no luck. Chinese animations show a single, large descent engine at the bottom and an array of RCS thrusters. The excavated soil is consistent with the plume from that single engine, but I don't understand what could cause that linear ground discoloration for around 100 m almost directly due north and south of the lander that is prominently visible from orbit as well.
I find it difficult to believe that it can be a result of the smaller thrusters. Plume shadowing by the landing legs would produce a cross pattern, plume shadowing by unexcavated rock wouldn't be nearly as symmetrical.

Now, if the main descent propulsion actually consisted of *two* large engines, that might have created a stagnation zone on the ground where the 2 plumes interfered, but again the animations only show one. Also, that linear discoloration appears to actually be directions where the dust was removed more efficiently, not less so this goes against the exhaust stagnation idea.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 06/11/2021 11:16 am
I find it difficult to believe that it can be a result of the smaller thrusters.

Could it be the result of the jet of pressurised fuel released for passivation?


Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: ugordan on 06/11/2021 11:22 am
I find it difficult to believe that it can be a result of the smaller thrusters.

Could it be the result of the jet of pressurised fuel released for passivation?

That occurred to me as well (venting of He (?) pressurant, not so much fuel dumped as that would contaminate the surroundings too much), but I'd think that would be even less forceful than an RCS thruster.

I guess it has to be either one of those, though...
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/11/2021 11:52 am
According to CCTV, the photos were taken at:

Panorama: May 18 & 20, 23:00-00:00 UTC
East close-up: May 23, 02:37 UTC
Lander side view: May 26, ~04:00 UTC
Deployed camera rover-lander photo: June 1, 08:09 UTC

The rover has travelled over 80 m so far.
https://9ifly.spacety.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=91970&pid=851386 (https://9ifly.spacety.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=91970&pid=851386)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/11/2021 03:28 pm
For those wondering what the yellow flag characters (left of the Chinese flag) are supposed to represent: the mascots for the Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games of 2022.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/12/2021 02:07 am
Top: Backshell clearly visible in the panorama.
Top middle: Vesicular rocks similar to the ones that spawned some conversation in Perseverance's site.

Middle: Those landing thrusters surely do pack a punch! Very clear how they scoured the ground. I wonder if the landing pack is based around two sets of 45 degree-canted thrusters?
Bottom middle:  :o As I was saying, they surely pack a punch.

Very impressive.  In may mean the engines continued firing until touchdown.  It certainly illustrates why exhaust excavation is considered a major issues for large payloads.  It's interesting how cohesive the regolith is, given the hear vertical walls of the pits.

Quote
Bottom: Clear view of the aeolian deposits discussed upthread by myself and Dalhousie.

 :)

The lee and upwind slopes of the dunes shown up nicely, which to me look like immature small bachans
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/12/2021 07:39 am
Here is my attempt to identify features in orbital and surface imagery at the Zhurong landing site.

The first image is a 3.6 km radius circle centred on the lander, superimposed on ESP_069665_2055.  This represents the approximate horizon at 2 m above the ground.

The second image is the surface panorama with labelled features.

The third image shows these features and radial distances identified in a cropped ESP_069665_2055 image.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 06/12/2021 08:37 am
Zhang Rongqiao, chief designer Tianwen-1, explains how the panorama was taken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TBmysN34_U
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 06/13/2021 06:46 pm
https://www.leonarddavid.com/china-blueprints-red-planet-sample-return-future-space-exploration-missions/

"China’s Tianwen-1 Mars mission is a precursor to the country attempting a sample return effort at the Red Planet around 2030.

In addition, China also plans to launch a probe to collect samples from a near-Earth asteroid and explore a comet in one mission around 2025 and investigate the more faraway Jovian system after 2030."
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/14/2021 02:58 pm
Ways to avoid the lander to fail completely even in the direst of scenarios: just certify a beacon to survive a landing failure by shooting it against a wall through an artillery cannon:

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1404407692723097600 (https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1404407692723097600)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 06/14/2021 07:14 pm
From the press conference on June 12 http://www.gov.cn/xinwen/2021-06/12/content_5617394.htm
Quote
许洪亮:在“天问一号”火星探测任务中,国家航天局和欧空局、法国国家空间中心、阿根廷空间活动委员会、奥地利研究促进局等4家航天机构,通过载荷搭载、测控支持等方式开展了广泛合作,同时我们还正与法国、奥地利、俄罗斯等有关机构,就天问一号火星探测数据的应用合作保持沟通。同时为了保证火星探测器在轨卫星安全,近期我们正在与美国国家航空航天局、欧空局开展了火星探测器轨道数据交换合作。
Google translation
"Xu Hongliang: In the "Tianwen-1" Mars exploration mission, four space agencies including the National Space Agency and ESA, the French National Space Center, the Argentine Space Activities Committee, and the Austrian Research Promotion Agency adopted load carrying, measurement and control support, etc. We have carried out extensive cooperation. At the same time, we are also in communication with France, Austria, Russia and other relevant agencies on the application of the Tianwen-1 Mars exploration data. At the same time, in order to ensure the safety of the Mars rover satellites in orbit, we are currently cooperating with NASA and ESA to exchange data on the Mars rover orbit."
Xu Hongliang, a spokesperson for the CNSA http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-06/12/c_1310004733.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: shijiav on 06/14/2021 11:09 pm
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com

Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together?  Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it

In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.


“着巡合影”图,是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处,释放安装在车底部的分离相机,之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车,再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。

google translate

The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.

That's SERIOUSLY nifty! Sucks China follows this overly cautious, offputting image release policy for such a valuable exploration mission that could serve them as much-needed good PR for the rest of the world - and frankly gets embarrassing when only complete silence is offered during critical periods. Still, it must be admitted releases such as this make up for a portion of the frustration.

Thank you for the images!
They mentioned pics would be posted on a platform like CE mission, but when...
Also when someone asking the group photo is great, chief designer replied 'we already have more fascinating stuff received(I guess landing videos), you just wait and see'
I guess we will have to wait until CCP 100 year ceremony(should be 1 month from now).
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 06/15/2021 02:37 pm
Zhurong is heading towards South
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTkQAy3N_18
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: shijiav on 06/23/2021 05:31 am
TW-1 parachute deploy gif, still awaiting for full landing footage.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: newfrontiers on 06/24/2021 10:04 am
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: shijiav on 06/25/2021 05:30 am
Tomorrow we should have landing video released.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/26/2021 10:59 am
Backshell cover jettison video was also published.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Kaynouky/status/1408159315987423246

Along with some nice footage from the aerodynamic tab deploy from ground testing (first-ever use of that system? At least on Mars I believe so)

https://mobile.twitter.com/Eurekablog/status/1408738559096328202
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 06/27/2021 02:51 am
Newly release images.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 06/27/2021 02:54 am
EDL video
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 06/27/2021 03:19 am
Sound of Zhurong on Mars:

0:00-0:09 Motor started.
0:10-0:18 Zhurong driving on ramp
0:19-        Zhurong driving on Martian surface.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/27/2021 03:53 am
A video stitch of the rover turning left:
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/27/2021 03:55 am
And here's probably the first "true" video of roving on the Red Planet: the rover backing away from the dropped Wi-Fi camera:
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 06/27/2021 05:31 am
https://youtu.be/_JdEQT-Qk8k
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 06/27/2021 06:45 am
With explanations:
Zhurong landing on Mars (On-board camera view)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmZH557xOAM&
Zhurong’s sounds while descending onto Mars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xa97M5nsWU
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/27/2021 09:47 am
And here's probably the first "true" video of roving on the Red Planet: the rover backing away from the dropped Wi-Fi camera:

That's quite a speed too, isn't it? If it's real-time as it appears to be by some details including the antenna oscillations, then this rover is a bit swifter than the others in the Martian roving fleet.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/27/2021 09:50 am
Zhurong on its treck South, showing the landing platform in the distance:


https://twitter.com/Kaynouky/status/1409043281955131402


Also, more detailed views of the backshell (wonder if they'll get close to it):
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/27/2021 09:58 am
EDL video

https://twitter.com/AfricanRabbit/status/1409026150190387202
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: woods170 on 06/27/2021 08:00 pm
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com

Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together?  Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it

In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.


“着巡合影”图,是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处,释放安装在车底部的分离相机,之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车,再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。

google translate

The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.

That's SERIOUSLY nifty! Sucks China follows this overly cautious, offputting image release policy for such a valuable exploration mission that could serve them as much-needed good PR for the rest of the world - and frankly gets embarrassing when only complete silence is offered during critical periods. Still, it must be admitted releases such as this make up for a portion of the frustration.

Thank you for the images!

Emphasis mine.

China is not obliged to share their information/data with anyone but themselves. Stop comparing them to NASA and ESA. China's current policy on releasing spaceflight-related info/data is similar to that of the Soviet Union in the 1970's. Live with it.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/27/2021 10:10 pm
Image source?

https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2

CNSA's account on bilibili.com

Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together?  Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it

In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.


“着巡合影”图,是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处,释放安装在车底部的分离相机,之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车,再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。

google translate

The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.

That's SERIOUSLY nifty! Sucks China follows this overly cautious, offputting image release policy for such a valuable exploration mission that could serve them as much-needed good PR for the rest of the world - and frankly gets embarrassing when only complete silence is offered during critical periods. Still, it must be admitted releases such as this make up for a portion of the frustration.

Thank you for the images!

Emphasis mine.

China is not obliged to share their information/data with anyone but themselves. Stop comparing them to NASA and ESA. China's current policy on releasing spaceflight-related info/data is similar to that of the Soviet Union in the 1970's. Live with it.


None of us is dying here because of image release policies are we now? Certainly living with it.

I will however definitely speak my mind about dreadful outreach and transparency policies as much as I see fit though, as much as I've done it with ESA or with some NASA attempts at regression in the past, or as I'd have qualified the USSR's secrecy at the time if I'd been an interested observer at the time. Plenty other people, some extremely qualified and professionally involved in the topic, including Chinese citizens/taxpayers -even if these topics should concern everyone globally- also are keen on speaking their minds about these issues here and elsewhere. Heck, devising recommendations for senior PMs about better outreach practices in the space sector IS part of my day job at this time!

So yeah, thanks for your unsolicited, poor-form input about part of a month-old post - but no thanks. Emphasis also mine.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 06/27/2021 10:52 pm
This constant entitled whinging is getting tiresome.  It won't change anything. So live with it and be grateful we get the amazing data we have.. From now on I will report all such posts.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/28/2021 07:22 am
This constant entitled whinging is getting tiresome.  It won't change anything. So live with it and be grateful we get the amazing data we have.. From now on I will report all such posts.

The post woods needlessly brought up almost a month after the fact was actually part of a quite lively discussion about the silence regarding Tianwen's mission. The 'entitled whinging' is IMO expecting people not to comment about it, or even report about the sentiment by Chinese public themselves - moreso entitedly shutting people off long after the fact, without further content or authority to do so (none of you work in the Chinese program as far as I can tell). At the moment data releases for Zhurong are more comprehensive and do not reflect the immediate post-landing situation, by the way.

You may entitedly report what you see fit about concerns other people have, but I'd remind you there are people here and elsewhere online who professionally dedicate their careers to this and do not agree with your stance. I'd also remind you I personally am dealing with the issue of transparency in outreach to inform leading space sector PMs as part of my job, upon request from a major organization in the field. It may actually change something! Certainly other instances of fan and taxpayer complaints about perceived lack of transparency in space missions DID change something, no ifs or buts. Maybe you'd like to speak up to the IAF too about the entitledness of bringing up such whinging though.

This IS a forum after all. We have different expectations and standards for space exploration transparency: some of us look up to the very positive standards set by the US as precedence against the Soviets during the Space Race - please live with it.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: edzieba on 06/28/2021 12:39 pm
And its a policy discussion better suited for the Space Policy forum, not for a thread discussing a specific mission (since CNSA have applied the same policy of delayed and selective release to all missions).
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 06/28/2021 03:11 pm
And its a policy discussion better suited for the Space Policy forum, not for a thread discussing a specific mission (since CNSA have applied the same policy of delayed and selective release to all missions).

Agreed, for some reason some threads are especially prone to focusing on legalisms, economics, policy or all simultaneously - instead of on the "spacey" stuff, letting the other facets remain as off-hand remarks in the background they belong to.

Anyway, mea culpa for fueling the outbreak - back to some more cool Martian material from the recent releases, like the three frames showing plume interaction with the ground, remarkably similar to Perseverance's at first sight: http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=8627&view=findpost&p=253290 (http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=8627&view=findpost&p=253290).


Plus a simple, yet nicely done transverse map since the last update: https://twitter.com/alanmir/status/1409457282555985922
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 06/30/2021 05:33 am
"祝融号火星车着陆点周边环境概览
(截止2021年6月16日)
Overview of the Surrounding Environment of
Chinese Mars Rover Zhurong’s Landing Site
(Until 2021-06-16)
 Higher-res versions available at: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/19PTSvxpEc0hlSnaGYTILuTgwRZE4Mk8E"
https://twitter.com/TheElegant055/status/1409299635617906691/photo/1
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 07/02/2021 09:07 am
https://twitter.com/YuqiiQian/status/1410652968433631235
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 07/09/2021 12:10 pm
Latest update on weibo

As of July 7th Zhurong has travelled over 300 metres in the 54 days since landing.  As it was not deployed until May 26 that is 46 days of driving,or 6.5 m per day.


https://m.weibo.cn/status/4657097243101628
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 07/09/2021 06:20 pm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 07/12/2021 11:00 am
As of today (July 12) Zhurong has covered more than 410 m to date (~100 m in the last five days).  An average of 8.03 m per day for 51 days.
   
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-07-11/China-s-Zhurong-rover-drives-for-over-410-meters-on-Mars-11OJM3iid5C/index.html 

Edit: the exact distance was 410.025 by July 11 https://m.weibo.cn/status/4658074369134237?fbclid=IwAR1rOu7kDoK5bgK2peZDeRk49GToxnFpm_XNFNHxUIbMnxPS_QYyfQPOPgA



 
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Star One on 07/13/2021 09:32 am
New images from the Zhurong rover:

https://youtu.be/d0Js6hj954Y
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: woods170 on 07/15/2021 12:54 pm
Zhurong has imaged its own backshell and parachute from 30 meters away:

https://spacenews.com/chinas-zhurong-mars-rover-visits-own-parachute/ (https://spacenews.com/chinas-zhurong-mars-rover-visits-own-parachute/)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 07/15/2021 01:53 pm

Zhurong has imaged its own backshell and parachute from 30 meters away:


https://spacenews.com/chinas-zhurong-mars-rover-visits-own-parachute/ (https://spacenews.com/chinas-zhurong-mars-rover-visits-own-parachute/)


Source and pics:


https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/mK6rv7dka_xpI4GuHfX1EQ


Will it now drive to the heatshield further south too, or take a different route?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 07/16/2021 07:35 am
Will it now drive to the heatshield further south too, or take a different route?
That is the plan, drive south
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTkQAy3N_18
Some details about the parachute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J20obC5YPDI
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 07/18/2021 04:40 am
On the 17th Zhurong passed one (Chinese) mile on Mars-509 m.

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/RAuIYuJUtTFY7WDX4D8zOA?fbclid=IwAR2AiwNr8B-Gez3gtyh04XG2bUMZgaxjsu7VuPu_EJhP660Z7rWmLlFHIw4
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 07/23/2021 07:18 am
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/w4rLn3Hy47Ei9dLWknGXOQ (https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/w4rLn3Hy47Ei9dLWknGXOQ)

This link goes to a new update with a Chinese map of the traverse and a new image of the 'second dune'.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 07/23/2021 10:31 pm
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/w4rLn3Hy47Ei9dLWknGXOQ (https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/w4rLn3Hy47Ei9dLWknGXOQ)

This link goes to a new update with a Chinese map of the traverse and a new image of the 'second dune'.

July 23rd marked the 1st anniversary of launch.  There is a video of mission highlights so far.  The rover has travelled 585 metres in the 62 days since deploying.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 07/23/2021 10:37 pm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 07/30/2021 07:14 am
http://www.spaceflightfans.cn/96085.html (http://www.spaceflightfans.cn/96085.html)

A bit more news: 75 sols, 708 m travelled, and an image.  I think the view is to the southeast and about 570 m south of the lander.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 07/30/2021 12:43 pm
The GRAS-4 antenna that is receiving Tianwen-1 data
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0FCl64iom0
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 07/31/2021 12:05 am
http://www.spaceflightfans.cn/96085.html (http://www.spaceflightfans.cn/96085.html)

A bit more news: 75 sols, 708 m travelled, and an image.  I think the view is to the southeast and about 570 m south of the lander.

Note that CNSA gives Zhurong mission elapsed time as sols since landing.  For calculating rate of traverse, subtract 6 for actual driving period.

Average progress over the course of the traverse is now 10.2 m per day. 124 m covered in the past week, 17.7 m per day.

Text:

After the "Zhurong" rover completed its scientific survey of the second dune landform, it continued to move south and reached a complex terrain area with densely distributed rocks, impact craters and sand dunes this week.
In the follow-up, ground flight control personnel will complete the visual positioning and movement path planning of the rover based on the navigational terrain images obtained daily, and control the rover to safely cross this complex terrain. When passing by an interested scientific detection target, the rover will use scientific payloads such as surface composition detectors and multispectral cameras to conduct detailed detections. During the journey, the surface magnetic field detector, the Martian weather measuring instrument, and the subsurface detection radar were turned on to obtain scientific data.

As of July 30, 2021, the rover has worked on the surface of Mars for 75 Martian days, and the orbiter has been in orbit for 372 days. The two devices are in good condition, and the operating conditions of each system are normal




Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 08/06/2021 06:59 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-08/06/c_1310111673.htm
https://weibo.com/1822161445/Ksb56yF1Q

China's Mars rover travels over 800 meters on red planet
Source: Xinhua| 2021-08-06 14:19:26

BEIJING, Aug. 6 (Xinhua) -- China's Mars rover Zhurong has traveled more than 800 meters on the surface of the red planet as of Friday, according to the Lunar Exploration and Space Program Center of the China National Space Administration.

Zhurong has been traversing a complex terrain full of rocks, craters and dunes, and its rear hazard-avoidance camera captured a picture of the rover just moving across the rocks.

As of August 6, 2021, the rover has worked on the surface of Mars for 82 Martian days and the orbiter has been in orbit for 379 days. The two are in good condition and functioning properly.

A Martian day is approximately 40 minutes longer than a day on Earth.

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 08/06/2021 12:26 pm
The Tianwen-1 orbiter will move into the science orbit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NoWtjsZkhc
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: limen4 on 08/15/2021 09:27 pm
The Tianwen-1 orbiter will move into the science orbit.
The orbital maneuver is planned for August 17th.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 08/17/2021 05:40 pm
Zhurong completes its designed mission
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9BRAJ9Ts
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: CuddlyRocket on 08/17/2021 06:59 pm
Zhurong completes its designed mission

Onward!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 08/18/2021 04:12 am
Many of the pictures here are low-rez. I bet the full-size versions will always be more welcome.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 08/18/2021 04:13 am
Continue
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 08/18/2021 04:14 am
Here's the latest travel map.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: woods170 on 08/18/2021 09:54 am
Many of the pictures here are low-rez. I bet the full-size versions will always be more welcome.

That is one bet you will win.

Keep 'm coming!
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 08/18/2021 03:30 pm
atmospheric pressure & temperature from Zhurong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJvSMxFPcRw
Tianwen-1 orbiter will remain in the relay communication orbit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5-GC5IGgE
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: CuddlyRocket on 08/18/2021 05:27 pm
I understand why they landed in a relatively featureless plain (sensible decision) and as a space enthusiast I find them interesting nonetheless. But, does anyone know how far they need to travel before encountering a greater variety of terrain?
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 08/19/2021 03:06 pm
https://www.leonarddavid.com/china-mars-rover-early-findings/

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 08/21/2021 12:03 am
I understand why they landed in a relatively featureless plain (sensible decision) and as a space enthusiast I find them interesting nonetheless. But, does anyone know how far they need to travel before encountering a greater variety of terrain?

1) About 8 km SW from the landing site there is a fault bounded trough.

2)About 18 km SW there is a cluster of small, crater-topped conical hills.  These could be rootless cones (when lava flows over wet ground), spring mounds (formed by mineral-rich groundwater discharge), pingos (ic4e-cored mounds), or small cinder cones.

3) About 24 km SW is a small mesa of layered rock.

On the other hand, to the SE we have:

4) At 22 km a relatively small (1.3 km) and probably young crater with very high thermal inertia (dark in day time IR, bright in night time) ejecta

5) At 24 km there is an extension of the same trough system at 1) above.

6) at 26 km there is another cluster of small hills and

Due south we have

7) at 6 km there is a 600 m crater without distinctive thermal inertia

8 ) at 17 km there is  a very small crater with a narrow high thermal inertia halo and the start of a dispersed cluster of small hills continuing down to 26 km

9) at 26 km there is a fault scarp and a chain of small (100-300 m) craters with high thermal inertia ejecta haloes

Currently Zhurong is tracking almost due south so could be heading to any of these. 

Average daily progression of Zhurong since deployment has been ~10 m per day, so 20 km will be over five years away.

Remember this is primarily a geophysical mission, collecting subsurface data from the radar and the magnetometer.  Not much to see but lots to learn, but only after much data processing.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: otter on 08/23/2021 11:38 am
China's rover travels over 1 km on Mars

http://www.news.cn/english/2021-08/23/c_1310143798.htm
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 08/24/2021 08:01 pm
https://youtu.be/aSSs6FfBlgY

Quote
Zhurong is the name given to the Chinese Space Agency's Mars rover mission, and after landing in May it's spent over 90 days traversing the surface of Utopia Planitia, looking for evidence that this might be an ancient sea bed.
As China's first successful attempt to land on Mars a great deal of attention has been given to the state of the lander, parachute and aeroshell, so we've had some fine images of those. However in general the amount of data released so far remains quite small and we expect more as scientists work on the mission.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: CuddlyRocket on 08/25/2021 05:12 pm
I understand why they landed in a relatively featureless plain (sensible decision) and as a space enthusiast I find them interesting nonetheless. But, does anyone know how far they need to travel before encountering a greater variety of terrain?

1) About 8 km SW from the landing site there is a fault bounded trough.

2)About 18 km SW there is a cluster of small, crater-topped conical hills.  These could be rootless cones (when lava flows over wet ground), spring mounds (formed by mineral-rich groundwater discharge), pingos (ic4e-cored mounds), or small cinder cones.

3) About 24 km SW is a small mesa of layered rock.

On the other hand, to the SE we have:

4) At 22 km a relatively small (1.3 km) and probably young crater with very high thermal inertia (dark in day time IR, bright in night time) ejecta

5) At 24 km there is an extension of the same trough system at 1) above.

6) at 26 km there is another cluster of small hills

Due south at 29 km there is a fault scarp and a chain of small (100-300 m) craters with high thermal inertia craters

Currently Zhurong is tracking almost due south so could be heading to any of these.  If I were to hazard a guess I would say that they are heading to the SW hills.

Average daily progression of Zhurong since deployment has been ~10 m per day, so 20 km will be over five years away.

Remember this is primarily a geophysical mission, collecting subsurface data from the radar and the magnetometer.  Not much to see but lots to learn, but only after much data processing.

Thanks for this. I suspect the due South trajectory is because they haven't made their mind up where to go next!

Although scientifically this may be a geophysical mission it is primarily tasked with fulfilling the goals of the CCP and politicians like pictures that get the world to take notice. It will be interesting to see where they do go eventually (assuming it lasts that long).
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 08/25/2021 11:25 pm
I understand why they landed in a relatively featureless plain (sensible decision) and as a space enthusiast I find them interesting nonetheless. But, does anyone know how far they need to travel before encountering a greater variety of terrain?

1) About 8 km SW from the landing site there is a fault bounded trough.

2)About 18 km SW there is a cluster of small, crater-topped conical hills.  These could be rootless cones (when lava flows over wet ground), spring mounds (formed by mineral-rich groundwater discharge), pingos (ic4e-cored mounds), or small cinder cones.

3) About 24 km SW is a small mesa of layered rock.

On the other hand, to the SE we have:

4) At 22 km a relatively small (1.3 km) and probably young crater with very high thermal inertia (dark in day time IR, bright in night time) ejecta

5) At 24 km there is an extension of the same trough system at 1) above.

6) at 26 km there is another cluster of small hills

Due south at 29 km there is a fault scarp and a chain of small (100-300 m) craters with high thermal inertia craters

Currently Zhurong is tracking almost due south so could be heading to any of these.  If I were to hazard a guess I would say that they are heading to the SW hills.

Average daily progression of Zhurong since deployment has been ~10 m per day, so 20 km will be over five years away.

Remember this is primarily a geophysical mission, collecting subsurface data from the radar and the magnetometer.  Not much to see but lots to learn, but only after much data processing.

Thanks for this. I suspect the due South trajectory is because they haven't made their mind up where to go next!

Although scientifically this may be a geophysical mission it is primarily tasked with fulfilling the goals of the CCP and politicians like pictures that get the world to take notice. It will be interesting to see where they do go eventually (assuming it lasts that long).

The slightly west of south track suggest they may be heading to the SW features, there are some troughs in the way of a direct SW track that they may want to go round.

Yutu 2 has operated for over 2 years on the Moon, and clearly CNSA is confident that there is a good chance of reaching these features of they would not have mentioned them as goals.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 08/31/2021 02:36 pm
https://www.leonarddavid.com/chinas-mars-mission-going-offline/

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 09/09/2021 12:49 am


Although scientifically this may be a geophysical mission it is primarily tasked with fulfilling the goals of the CCP and politicians like pictures that get the world to take notice. It will be interesting to see where they do go eventually (assuming it lasts that long).

Not everything is about the fulfillment of political agenda. 
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 10/10/2021 07:02 am
Geomorphologic exploration targets at the Zhurong landing site in the southern Utopia Planitia of Mars.   Interesting paper that confirms the the longer term traverse goals includes features 20 km from the landing site.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/authShare/S0012821X21004544/20211008T233300Z/1?md5=9e9be055d3dbbd4a03a787da96f6c19a&dgcid=coauthor
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 10/11/2021 08:57 am
Zhurong during the Mars solar conjunction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyH0hXMUFow
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 10/17/2021 08:24 pm
Detailed, in-depth paper openly analyzing Zhurong's EDL (open access):

https://twitter.com/SegerYu/status/1449819222519914500

Quote
According to the Tianwen-1 EDL GNC requirements, the GNC modes, GNC architecture, and key GNC algorithms have been described in this paper.

The effectiveness of the GNC system design was demonstrated by the successful landing of the Tianwen-1, which landed on the Mars with a small landing ellipse, a soft touchdown velocity, and a stable vertical attitude.

It should be noted that the Tianwen-1 landed at a site with a low MOLA elevation around a relative flat area. In the future, China will target areas that have higher scientific value, more rugged terrain, and higher MOLA elevation. This puts forward new requirements for the EDL GNC technology, e.g., the GNC system must have high precision navigation capability and have stronger maneuverability or deceleration capability.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 10/28/2021 07:50 am
ESA - Mars Express keeps an ear out for Chinese rover
https://blogs.esa.int/mex/2021/10/27/mars-express-keeps-an-ear-out-for-chinese-rover/
Quote
*ESA’s Mars Express team is planning a series of five communication tests with the Chinese Zhurong Mars rover in November.
*The Mars Express spacecraft can ‘hear’ the rover, but the rover cannot ‘hear’ Mars Express.
*Zhurong will transmit data ‘blind’ as part of a technique designed over a decade ago but not tested in orbit until now.
*ESA will pass any received data on to the Zhurong team for analysis.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 11/08/2021 02:59 pm
Orbiter has changed its orbit to enter the "teledetection"/survey orbit (10700x265 km):
https://twitter.com/SegerYu/status/1457727602064429060
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: SciNews on 11/09/2021 12:09 pm
"preliminary exploration data covering the globe will be available in June next year"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM2kXBkTKMw
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 11/10/2021 12:26 am
Travel distance 1253 m to date, a further 189 m since end of solar conjunction on October 21st.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202111/1238542.shtml

https://www.space.com/china-tianwen-1-mars-orbiter-rover-radio-blackout-ends


Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 12/01/2021 09:40 am
CNSA-ESA communication test successfully completed (after some challenges earlier on):

https://t.co/OqvDEnjRQF?amp=1

Quote
CLEP confirms the telecommunications tests between the Chinese rover Zhurong and ESA's orbiter Mars Express is a success. Transmission was "in the blind", since Zhurong and Mars Express cannot connect between themselves, ¡a true novelty at Mars!

https://twitter.com/Kaynouky/status/1465966964447272963
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 12/02/2021 03:30 am
Reams of data gathered to date

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03554-8
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 12/07/2021 11:13 pm
Open access paper:

Lui et al.  2021. "Geomorphic contexts and science focus of the Zhurong landing site on Mars".  Nature Astronomy


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-021-01519-5.pdf

ABSTRACT

As part of the Tianwen-1 mission, the Zhurong rover successfully touched down in southern Utopia Planitia on 15 May 2021. On the basis of the new sub-metre-resolution images from the High Resolution Imaging Camera on board the Tianwen-1 orbiter, we determined that the Zhurong rover landed at 109.925° E, 25.066° N at an elevation of −4,099.4 m. The landing site is near the highland–lowland boundary and multiple suspected shorelines. Under the guidance of the remote sensing survey, the Zhurong rover is travelling south for specific in situ investigation. Supported by the six payloads on board the rover, its initial key targets are rocks, rocky fields, transverse aeolian ridges and subsurface structures along the path. Extended investigation will aim at troughs and cones in the distance. A better understanding of the formation mechanisms of these targets may shed light on the historical volcanism and water/ice activities within the landing area, as well as the activities of the wind. These results may reveal the characteristics and evolution of the ancient Martian environment and advance the exploration of the habitability of ancient Mars.

Some noteworthy extended mission phase goals include:

"The short-term targets in this phase are another narrow rocky field and a trough with the maximum depth of ~10m, which are located ~1.8 km and ~2.7 km south of the landing site, respectively."

And....

"In the longer term, we expect that the rover will travel further. From the DEM data, the elevation is constantly rising as the rover travels south. The height difference between the landing site and the highest point is ~60m, and a scarp appears ~27 km away from the landing site. Many cone features are distributed near the scarp, especially clustered cones, indicating that this region may have been geologically active in the past. However, how the terrain formed remains unknown. Further research combining remote sensing data from the Tianwen-1 orbiter and in situ data from the Zhurong rover will address these questions."

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: hextreme on 01/01/2022 02:01 am
Latest images from Tianwen-1:

Three photos taken by throw-away cameras and one from Zhurong rover

Source: CNSA website http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n6758823/n6758838/c6813038/content.html
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: eeergo on 01/31/2022 02:12 pm
Video from Tianwen's "selfie-stick" deploying and showing the S/C against the Martian curvature's background. I already lost count of how many cameras this mission carried (and possibly some are not even publicly acknowledged at this stage):

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1488030618223063042
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Blackstar on 01/31/2022 02:58 pm
Here it is on YouTube. The video is pretty neat when you get to see Mars sliding by below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWsAei_gFFo

Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Chinakpradhan on 01/31/2022 04:54 pm
Video from Tianwen's "selfie-stick" deploying and showing the S/C against the Martian curvature's background. I already lost count of how many cameras this mission carried (and possibly some are not even publicly acknowledged at this stage):

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1488030618223063042
me too by the way here's the actual camera discussed here estimation shows it is just a undisclosed payload and it is called somewhat by a guess like Mars Orbiter Status Monitoring Sensor (MOSMOS)
https://mobile.twitter.com/CNDeepSpace/status/1487977355662426114
https://mobile.twitter.com/CNDeepSpace/status/1488042267017318405
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Chinakpradhan on 01/31/2022 05:01 pm
Video from Tianwen's "selfie-stick" deploying and showing the S/C against the Martian curvature's background. I already lost count of how many cameras this mission carried (and possibly some are not even publicly acknowledged at this stage):

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1488030618223063042
me too by the way here's the actual camera discussed here estimation shows it is just a undisclosed payload and it is called somewhat by a guess like Mars Orbiter Status Monitoring Sensor (MOSMOS)
https://mobile.twitter.com/CNDeepSpace/status/1487977355662426114
https://mobile.twitter.com/CNDeepSpace/status/1488042267017318405
but my mind asks
1) is it multi refold redeploy or just a single deployable selfie stick
2) what it's location
3) its lifetime even canadarms need heat to be operational
4) confirmation of name
5) why can't this easy stucture be added to zhurong it lacks a robotic arm
6)final( this can only be answered  by cnsa ) we just want the list of payload and total spacecrafts on this mission
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Chinakpradhan on 01/31/2022 05:04 pm
https://mobile.twitter.com/chineseforces1/status/1487993204175945728
Video caption here
On 30 Jan 2022, Chinese Tianwen-1 Mars probe sent back selfie videos. It is obiter of the first Chinese Mars landing mission. The video was taken by a special "selfie" camera carried by Tianwen-1, installed at the end of the "selfie rod" to monitor and evaluate
the condition of key components.
The orbiter works closely with Zhurong rover.
The main engine, propellant tank, attitude
control engine and other components are in
good condition, as well as the five-star flag.
It also shows during the attitude adjustment, the Sun illuminates the orbiter, and the ice sheet on Mars is stunning.

As of 31 Jan 2022, Tianwen-1 has been in orbit for 557 days, about 325 million kilometers away from the earth.

The "selfie rod" is made from shape memory composite material, solar heat makes it extended to working position. The Zhurong Mars rover has worked for 255 Mars days and traveled a total of 1524 meters, also sent back photos recently. At present, Tianwen-1 mission has returned about 600GB of original scientific data. The two devices are in good condition.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/10/2022 07:34 am
https://twitter.com/TheElegant055/status/1501762584386711557 (https://twitter.com/TheElegant055/status/1501762584386711557)

Retweet by Andrew Jones links to a map of Zhurong's travels up to early February.  The distance driven by Feb. 4th was 1537 m.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: plutogno on 03/12/2022 08:14 am
the Chinese journal Scientia Sinica Technologica has a lot of papers on TW-1 and Zhurong in its latest issue (unfortunately, most if not all papers are in Chinese)
https://www.sciengine.com/publisher/scp/journal/SST/52/2?slug=browse
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 03/12/2022 09:49 pm
"Surface characteristics of the Zhurong Mars rover traverse at Utopia Planitia" by Ding et al.

ABSTRACT

China’s Mars rover, Zhurong, touched down on Utopia Planitia in the northern lowlands of Mars (109.925° E, 25.066° N) in May 2021, and has been conducting in situ investigations of the landing area in conjunction with the Tianwen-1 orbiter. Here we present surface properties derived from the Zhurong rover’s traverse during the first 60 sols of rover operations. Our analysis of the rover’s position from locomotion data and camera imagery over that time shows that the rover traversed 450.9 m southwards over a flat surface with mild wheel slippage. Soil parameters determined by terramechanics, which observes wheel–terrain interactions, indicate that the topsoil has high bearing strength and cohesion. The soil’s equivalent stiffness is estimated to range from 1,390 to 5,872 kPa per mN, and the internal friction angle ranges from 21° to 34° under a cohesion of 1.5 to 6 kPa. Aeolian bedforms in the area are primarily transverse aeolian ridges, indicating northeastern local wind directions. Surface rocks imaged by the rover cameras show evidence of physical weathering processes, such as wind erosion, and potential chemical weathering processes. Joint investigations utilizing the scientific payloads of the rover and the orbiter can provide insights into local aeolian and aqueous history, and the habitability evolution of the northern lowlands on Mars.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-022-00905-6 (subscription required for full paper)
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 03/20/2022 10:14 pm
Route taken up to March 15 11

https://www.uahirise.org/hipod/ESP_073225_2055
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/20/2022 10:16 pm
Great image, but it is from March 11th.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Yiosie on 03/21/2022 04:28 am
Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but here is confirmation that the Tianwen program will extend beyond Mars:

China plans more planetary endeavors: scientist (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/20220312/3c898da4fe374c0580c1ae20820654af/c.html) [dated Mar. 12]

Quote from: Xinhua
After the Tianwen-1 mission, China will have a number of Tianwen series of planetary endeavors to explore the universe, according to a Chinese scientist.

Wu Weiren, the chief designer of China's lunar exploration program, said the country's deep space exploration will continue and its Mars mission will be followed by the Tianwen-2, Tianwen-3, and Tianwen-4.

<snip>

The main task of the follow-ups is to explore the asteroids in deep space and bring asteroid samples back to Earth, Wu said in a recent interview.

He also disclosed future plans including explorations of Venus and asteroids in deep space.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Dalhousie on 03/23/2022 12:01 am
Names Approved for Mars: 22 Feature Names Near the Tianwen-1 Landing Site

https://astrogeology.usgs.gov/news/nomenclature/names-approved-for-mars-22-feature-names-near-the-tianwen-1-landing-site

Google Mars placement for named features (kmls available in link above)

Base image THEMIS day-time IR
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/23/2022 06:12 am
The Chinese are very keen on getting names around their landing sites on the Moon and Mars.  Russia was not very interested in the (Soviet) past, though they have been working on it more recently (Lunokhod 1, Luna 24, Mars 3)  They still have some unapproved names in the works for Lunokhod 2. 
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/24/2022 06:17 am
Check out this article (in Chinese):

https://news.sina.com.cn/c/2022-03-24/doc-imcwipii0221404.shtml (https://news.sina.com.cn/c/2022-03-24/doc-imcwipii0221404.shtml)

Images of Zhurong from orbit recently, plus orbital views and even an image of Perseverance during its last sampling operation near the landing site.
Title: Re: Tianwen-1: Chinese 2020 Mars orbiter and rover
Post by: Star One on 07/23/2022 07:28 am
Phobos seen by Tianwen-1:

https://youtu.be/D_-Q62Q_eNs