Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - ASIASAT-8 - August 5, 2014 - DISCUSSION THREAD  (Read 208167 times)

Offline Scylla

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They don't bother to put equipment specifically needed for landing, such as hard points to attach legs, on cores that will need full performance to get payload to required orbit.

Launch reshuffle means they have to switch cores between CRS-4 and one of the Asiasats.
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Offline Lar

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At least one of the sats needed full performance, so it was planned to go legless. But there has been enough core swapping... with that legless given to one that could use it but now has no legs.. it's a muddle. I think they left them off all 3 just to keep things straight.

I'm still wondering what internals are changed, as we discussed a few pages back, if all 3 legless now have less internal wiring or plumbing or if they kept that part the same.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Scylla

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I've heard of pulling the wings off of flies, but the legs off a Falcon is a new low.

Poor widdle Falcon. :'(
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Online Jakusb

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At least one of the sats needed full performance, so it was planned to go legless. But there has been enough core swapping... with that legless given to one that could use it but now has no legs.. it's a muddle. I think they left them off all 3 just to keep things straight.

I'm still wondering what internals are changed, as we discussed a few pages back, if all 3 legless now have less internal wiring or plumbing or if they kept that part the same.

What I do not understand: Asiasat-6 was supposed to be light enough to for landing. CSR-4 too? Swapping would still give then both legs, or did I miss something?
It sounds like a serious waste of testing potential to leave them legless. Or might they still attempt a landing, but without legs?
Maybe questions for Chris? Maybe L2 type info?

Offline mme

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At least one of the sats needed full performance, so it was planned to go legless. But there has been enough core swapping... with that legless given to one that could use it but now has no legs.. it's a muddle. I think they left them off all 3 just to keep things straight.

I'm still wondering what internals are changed, as we discussed a few pages back, if all 3 legless now have less internal wiring or plumbing or if they kept that part the same.

What I do not understand: Asiasat-6 was supposed to be light enough to for landing. CSR-4 too? Swapping would still give then both legs, or did I miss something?
It sounds like a serious waste of testing potential to leave them legless. Or might they still attempt a landing, but without legs?
Maybe questions for Chris? Maybe L2 type info?
I suspect it's a combination of swapping cores and trying to make up for lost time.  No legs on Asiasat-6 because they are going for launch in record time (for SpaceX).  No legs on Asiasat-8 as it's too massive, but it's using the core meant for CRS-4 (and probably another attempt at a 20ish day launch.)  Then no legs on CRS-4 because it's now a on core without the proper mount points (presumably the original AsiaSat-8 core.)

Completely made up, but plausible.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline Karloss12

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Elon has said that flight schedule will not be delayed to accommodate the development for recovery.

But if an unplanned launch delay was to occur on the next flight or two, a newly fabricated legged core might become available for the CR-4 launch.

Offline MP99


At least one of the sats needed full performance, so it was planned to go legless. But there has been enough core swapping... with that legless given to one that could use it but now has no legs.. it's a muddle. I think they left them off all 3 just to keep things straight.

I'm still wondering what internals are changed, as we discussed a few pages back, if all 3 legless now have less internal wiring or plumbing or if they kept that part the same.

What I do not understand: Asiasat-6 was supposed to be light enough to for landing. CSR-4 too? Swapping would still give then both legs, or did I miss something?
It sounds like a serious waste of testing potential to leave them legless. Or might they still attempt a landing, but without legs?
Maybe questions for Chris? Maybe L2 type info?
I suspect it's a combination of swapping cores and trying to make up for lost time.  No legs on Asiasat-6 because they are going for launch in record time (for SpaceX).  No legs on Asiasat-8 as it's too massive, but it's using the core meant for CRS-4 (and probably another attempt at a 20ish day launch.)  Then no legs on CRS-4 because it's now a on core without the proper mount points (presumably the original AsiaSat-8 core.)

Completely made up, but plausible.
I don't think that lack of legs necessarily blocks them from doing a boost back and close-to-shore splashdown. Perhaps on - 6 & CRS.

Cheers, Martin

Offline TripD

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Quote
I don't think that lack of legs necessarily blocks them from doing a boost back and close-to-shore splashdown. Perhaps on - 6 & CRS.

That is a great point. It's not as though the legs helped soften those (Kabooms).  They might have better luck with booster survivability by just splashing a bit closer to shore.

Offline guckyfan

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I don't think that lack of legs necessarily blocks them from doing a boost back and close-to-shore splashdown. Perhaps on - 6 & CRS.

That is a great point. It's not as though the legs helped soften those (Kabooms).  They might have better luck with booster survivability by just splashing a bit closer to shore.

When they need to lift a very heavy satellite like Asiasat 8 the legs are just a minor thing. More importantly the fuel will be spent for lifting the payload not boostback and landing.

Offline stichtom

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The next three flights won't have legs. Even CRS-4 won't because that core is now being used for Asiasat 6.

Why sweeping the cores causes CRS-4 to not have legs? are not the cores all identical?

They are not identical, they have some minor differences

Offline guckyfan

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The next three flights won't have legs. Even CRS-4 won't because that core is now being used for Asiasat 6.

Why sweeping the cores causes CRS-4 to not have legs? are not the cores all identical?

They are not identical, they have some minor differences

But why swap at all? All the cores should be available on time. They just need to store the Asiasat 6 core a little longer instead of flying it first on whatever mission goes first.


Offline MTom

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We are off-topic with this swapping situation between CRS4 and AsiaSat6.
A new topic would be a better place for it.

Back to AsiaSat8: is it a fact that the core is without legs or only opinions because the satellite needs full performance of the rocket?

Offline Lar

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We are off-topic with this swapping situation between CRS4 and AsiaSat6.
A new topic would be a better place for it.

Back to AsiaSat8: is it a fact that the core is without legs or only opinions because the satellite needs full performance of the rocket?

I believe there has been confirmation that at least one of these 3 cores is legless... Get L2!

(I'd go check, but I'm kinda busy)

Also: This MIGHT be the thread to talk about core swaps?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27985.0
« Last Edit: 07/20/2014 03:52 pm by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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So, would it be fair to say that Asiasat-8 is at the top end of Falcon-9 v.1.1's payload to GTO performance envelope? That makes it about 4,000kg, doesn't it?
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Offline Tomness

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So, would it be fair to say that Asiasat-8 is at the top end of Falcon-9 v.1.1's payload to GTO performance envelope? That makes it about 4,000kg, doesn't it?
                           
I am pretty sure Gwen Shotwell said their listed proformance was low balled. It could do more then 4.8 kg                                                                       

Offline baldusi

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4,850 was the originally quoted performance for a 1,800m/s delta-v deficit GTO. Apparently they had reserved 300kg in that, which would put the maximum on 5,150kg. But, for a 1,500m/s GTO (what Ariane 5, Proton-M, Sea Launch and even Long March 3B/E state), its lower. We do know that with supersynchronous insertion they did 3,600kg or so. Being that they didn't new the true performance, it might have a bit better, may be 3,800 or so.

Offline friendly3

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So, would it be fair to say that Asiasat-8 is at the top end of Falcon-9 v.1.1's payload to GTO performance envelope? That makes it about 4,000kg, doesn't it?

SES-10 weighs 5,300 kg and will be launch aboard a Falcon 9 in 2016.

Offline Jcc

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They are attempting a 22 day turnaround, maybe they decided to save the time and expense of putting on legs, as well as the weight.

They may still do a reentry burn and track the stage like they did with SES-8 and Thaicom without worrying about the terminal burn.

Offline MP99

So, would it be fair to say that Asiasat-8 is at the top end of Falcon-9 v.1.1's payload to GTO performance envelope? That makes it about 4,000kg, doesn't it?

SES-10 weighs 5,300 kg and will be launch aboard a Falcon 9 in 2016.
That could be expecting to use the 112% thrust version of M1D, and propellant densification. IE different limits.

Cheers, Martin

Offline laika_fr

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Above 4 tons the energy gap is mainly filled by powerful satellites.
But keep in mind the Tx site will be available within 2-3 years so this is a temporary problem.
a shrubbery on Mars

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