Author Topic: Altius Space Machines Thread  (Read 326127 times)

Offline GWH

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #600 on: 05/11/2018 02:21 am »
MainEngineCutOff recently interviewed Jon in their podcast:
https://mainenginecutoff.com/podcast/82

A great interview going over what the team has been up to, pivoting to find a niche in the market place and current plans.
I really enjoyed the interview, it's always great to hear from someone developing innovative products in the industry.

Offline jongoff

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #601 on: 05/12/2018 05:21 am »
MainEngineCutOff recently interviewed Jon in their podcast:
https://mainenginecutoff.com/podcast/82

A great interview going over what the team has been up to, pivoting to find a niche in the market place and current plans.
I really enjoyed the interview, it's always great to hear from someone developing innovative products in the industry.

Thanks, it was a fun interview.

~Jon

Offline jongoff

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #602 on: 06/08/2018 07:09 pm »
Altius won two Phase I SBIRs, and Doug Messier over at Parabolic Arc did a good writeup (I haven't had time to yet): http://www.parabolicarc.com/2018/06/08/altius-space-machines-selected-2-sbir-phase-1-awards/

The MagTags in particular are really important for our long-term commercial roadmap. The goal here is to create an electromechanical interface that allows you to plug modules into a spacecraft to either upgrade it (laser comms upgrade, new computing, additional sensors, etc), or plug in replacement parts (battery extender, spare reaction wheel, backup GPS receiver, etc). Not necessarily trying to push people to a fully modular lego-brick style satellite, but something more like a modern laptop--where the main satellite is tightly integrated like a normal satellite would be, but where you have "USB ports" that you can plug different things into without needing to know in advance what it is you'll be using it for.

For the dust-tolerant connector, this was based on some conversations with JPL folks about how every time they go to do a Mars rover, the question of a tool changer vs a tool turret (with all the tools pre-integrated) always comes up. They'd rather be able to do the tool changer, as it allows you to go with a much lighter, smaller, robot arm, and if you have only one tool on it, you can likely get that tool into tighter locations than you could a turret. And if the arm is light and small and cheap, it also makes it possible to do two arms so you have more redundancy. But they've never been able to do a tool changer they believed could stand up to the dusty environment and work reliably for years, so they always grudgingly go back to the tool turret approach. We think we have a way to make this work that would have no exposed moving parts, that should be pretty slick. It'll be fun to see if we can make this work during Phase I.

~Jon

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #603 on: 07/24/2018 09:04 am »
Twitter thread:

Quote
Ever had to retire a satellite prematurely just because its batteries were dying, or a reaction wheel was acting up?

https://twitter.com/altiusspace/status/1021625781208772608

Quote
Ever wanted to take advantage of new technology like laser comms for  your constellation, but you weren't sure it'd be ready for prime-time  soon enough?

Quote
Ever wished you didn't have to throw out an otherwise perfectly functional spacecraft just because your payload goes obsolete quickly?

Quote
What if satellites, like computers or smartphones, had something like a USB port so you could plug in a battery extender, a spare reaction wheel, a laser comms upgrade, or an upgraded payload?

Quote
On August 6th at @SmallSat, Altius will be hosting a workshop introducing our MagTag™ modular servicing interfaces and soliciting feedback from participants.

Want to help define the future of satellite servicing? RSVP here:
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/workshop-for-modular-interfaces-for-satellite-servicing-and-repair-tickets-47993480793

Offline jongoff

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #604 on: 07/26/2018 01:51 am »
Thanks FST. As I mentioned on Twitter yesterday, the idea of modular ORUs has been around probably longer than I've been alive, but our goal was to come up with something with no moving parts, small and cheap enough to be useful even to cubesats, yet capable enough to be useful even for a flagship mission.

~Jon

Offline brickmack

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #605 on: 07/26/2018 02:08 am »
Is this related to/a derivative of DogTag? Wasn't that somehow related to ACES at one point?

Offline jongoff

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #606 on: 07/26/2018 03:34 am »
Is this related to/a derivative of DogTag? Wasn't that somehow related to ACES at one point?

Yeah, they're related. Both are cooperative servicing aids that make it a lot easier to services a vehicle. The DogTag is primarily a grappling fixture, and includes relative nav aids with the goal of making it a lot easier to located and capture a vehicle, even if it's tumbling. The MagTags are used to allow a second robot arm to plug in modules after the first arm has completed capture. The passive half of the MagTag uses ferrous capture plates that are constructed with a similar manufacturing process to the DogTag facesheets, using similar materials designed to be magnetically grippable, but not retain strong magnetic flux densities when external fields are removed. The active side uses a similar switchable magnet to what we'd plan to use for our grappling head.

So yeah, the two are interrelated, but also somewhat different.

Also, in case you're wondering, the name DogTags came from the name for our planned satellite servicing vehicle -- Bulldog.

If Chris is ok with it (one of the two presentations has a bit of an ad in it for an early access program we're doing for our MagTags), I could upload two presentations giving a high-level overview of both technologies.

~Jon
« Last Edit: 07/26/2018 03:37 am by jongoff »

Offline Lar

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #607 on: 07/26/2018 04:59 am »
Not Chris but I think it would be awesome....
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline jongoff

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #608 on: 07/26/2018 05:05 am »
Lar, as a moderator, I think your opinion counts.

These intros are really high-level, but give you some idea of the look and size of these interfaces. We're still finalizing the DogTag design, but are hoping to have the design finalized and flight qualified this year. We've won a downselect to put the DogTags on a customer's fleet of satellites, pending successful completion of integration analyses and qual tests. The MagTags are a bit earlier phase, but we have a NASA SBIR Phase I we're starting this week to refine the concept, and we also have a related SBIR we're waiting to hear back from AFRL.

Eventually the goal is to patent both designs, but release the patents to the world as an open standard. We're not intending to make our money on the interfaces, we'd rather make it on the servicing.

~Jon

PS, I should mention that Altius is going to be sharing pictures and updates about the MagTag prototype we're building for SmallSat Conference on our @AltiusSpace twitter account, for people who'd like to follow along.
« Last Edit: 07/26/2018 05:06 am by jongoff »

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #609 on: 07/26/2018 08:50 pm »
Thanks FST. As I mentioned on Twitter yesterday, the idea of modular ORUs has been around probably longer than I've been alive, but our goal was to come up with something with no moving parts, small and cheap enough to be useful even to cubesats, yet capable enough to be useful even for a flagship mission.

~Jon
NASA Goddard hosted a couple of workshops on on orbit servicing and ORU's in the mid 1970's. AFAIK only Hubble ever really took advantage (eventually) of the techniques.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline Craftyatom

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #610 on: 07/26/2018 10:32 pm »
Just wondering, what sort of trades were made for Active/Passive vs. Androgynous MagTags?  I can imagine that androgyny doesn't offer any benefit in most of the use cases considered, but it might have opened up other future possibilities for the standard.

(you can tell I work in software and not hardware based on this question alone ;D)
All aboard the HSF hype train!  Choo Choo!

Offline jongoff

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #611 on: 07/27/2018 04:04 am »
Thanks FST. As I mentioned on Twitter yesterday, the idea of modular ORUs has been around probably longer than I've been alive, but our goal was to come up with something with no moving parts, small and cheap enough to be useful even to cubesats, yet capable enough to be useful even for a flagship mission.

~Jon
NASA Goddard hosted a couple of workshops on on orbit servicing and ORU's in the mid 1970's. AFAIK only Hubble ever really took advantage (eventually) of the techniques.

Ok, so yeah, longer than I've been alive. In aerospace often times good ideas have to get reinvented a few times before they finally stick.

~Jon

Offline jongoff

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #612 on: 07/27/2018 04:18 am »
Just wondering, what sort of trades were made for Active/Passive vs. Androgynous MagTags?  I can imagine that androgyny doesn't offer any benefit in most of the use cases considered, but it might have opened up other future possibilities for the standard.

(you can tell I work in software and not hardware based on this question alone ;D)

Actually we've looked at androgyny, and it's relatively straightforward to make work. We even had a model of one androgynous coupler for a particular customer that really wanted one, but we had to update the artwork for the switchable magnet before this public release (to not show a version that hadn't been patented yet), and we didn't have time to redo the artwork for the androgynous variant. If you look at the active side, you'll notice it has both two pins on opposite corners, and two sockets on the other corners. With the right center core (ie one that doesn't stick out past flush), that means an active can grip a passive or an androgynous coupler, and an androgynous can grip an active or a passive coupler half.

We're still not sure if there's any real advantage to the androgynous design, but if there is an application for it, it would be really easy to implement. Basically you'd just have two opposing quadrants be switchable magnets, and the other two be ferrous plates, with pins in two opposite corners and sockets in the other two. The magnets should in theory be able to grip the other magnets (though maybe with some losses), etc.

The reason we went with the active/passive configuration is that for most situations you can live with passive connectors on your spacecraft. Passive connectors can be lighter, cheaper, and way less complicated. In theory for the electrical version it could literally be a structure with the ferrous gripping targets, the sockets, and the female electrical connector in the middle with flying leads coming out of it--no moving parts, no active elements, potentially less than ten parts ignoring fasteners (and less than say 30 parts including fasteners and washers and electrical connectors). Even if you go a little more complicated, it's still believable that you could make a passive version that cost <$1k each. Since you're putting these on satellites not knowing if you'll ever use them on any given satellite, it's good to minimize the up-front cost.

Anyhow, I could go on, but those are my main thoughts,

~Jon

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #613 on: 07/27/2018 05:52 am »
Ok, so yeah, longer than I've been alive. In aerospace often times good ideas have to get reinvented a few times before they finally stick.

~Jon
Ideas seem to have a sort of "activation energy." Once they have gained enough of this "energy" then they move (possibly quite suddenly) from "notions" to implementation.

In this context your companies plans for these connectors may be one of the things that gives energy to the concept of routine on orbit servicing (by upgrading or replacing, rather than the classic 70's idea of a person in an EVA suit).
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline jongoff

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #614 on: 07/27/2018 04:20 pm »
Ok, so yeah, longer than I've been alive. In aerospace often times good ideas have to get reinvented a few times before they finally stick.

~Jon
Ideas seem to have a sort of "activation energy." Once they have gained enough of this "energy" then they move (possibly quite suddenly) from "notions" to implementation.

In this context your companies plans for these connectors may be one of the things that gives energy to the concept of routine on orbit servicing (by upgrading or replacing, rather than the classic 70's idea of a person in an EVA suit).

It also helps that there are so many other good satellite servicing groups out there helping get rid of the giggle factor for servicing (Maxar/SSL Robotics, NGIS's MEV team, Astroscale, Effective Space, NASA Goddard SSPO, DARPA, etc). We're just trying to help push those benefits down into the LEO constellation world.

~Jon

Offline D_Dom

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #615 on: 07/27/2018 07:21 pm »

NASA Goddard hosted a couple of workshops on on orbit servicing and ORU's in the mid 1970's. AFAIK only Hubble ever really took advantage (eventually) of the techniques.

 STS 49, first flight of Space Shuttle Endeavour captured Intelsat VI. This satellite was stranded in the wrong orbit for two years. Servicing required capture, securing in the cargo bay and installing a kick motor before release allowing ground controllers to boost into the desired orbit.

 I worked on the hub and strut system which astronauts used as foot restraints in addition to the arm. They reached out and grabbed the slowly spinning satellite after repeated attempts at using a capture bar failed.

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/history/this-week-in-nasa-history-first-flight-of-space-shuttle-endeavour-launches-may-7-1992.html

https://www.nasa.gov/audience/formedia/factsheet/sts49_factsheet.html

« Last Edit: 07/27/2018 07:30 pm by D_Dom »
Space is not merely a matter of life or death, it is considerably more important than that!

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #616 on: 07/27/2018 09:55 pm »
{snip}
We're still not sure if there's any real advantage to the androgynous design, but if there is an application for it, it would be really easy to implement. Basically you'd just have two opposing quadrants be switchable magnets, and the other two be ferrous plates, with pins in two opposite corners and sockets in the other two. The magnets should in theory be able to grip the other magnets (though maybe with some losses), etc.
{snip}

Try weight saving. Large items like space stations end up carrying two sets of replacement parts. One set with the left hand connector and a second set with a right hand connector. Robotic arms need the ability to change connector types in space which gets very complex.

Ask the ISS people about voltage convertors.
« Last Edit: 07/27/2018 09:55 pm by A_M_Swallow »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #617 on: 11/16/2018 06:48 am »
https://twitter.com/rocketrepreneur/status/1063311384736219136

Are there any details published about Altius’ hardware going to ISS?

Offline jongoff

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #618 on: 11/16/2018 06:47 pm »
https://twitter.com/rocketrepreneur/status/1063311384736219136

Are there any details published about Altius’ hardware going to ISS?

Not really, but I should probably do a blog post about it soon. Long-story short, we rev'd the MagTag prototype from SmallSat, and integrated that into Orbitfab's water transfer flight demo they're sending to ISS. They gave us a free ride oppty if we could bring the hardware, and it worked out. It's still a pretty early version (with the current crappy alignment pins/sockets, the current stand-in connector, and the current v3 EPM hardware. But it passed all of the NASA qualification tests, and is headed up to ISS for a demo sometime early next year, I think. The demo isn't retiring huge amounts of engineering risk for us, but it was a chance to get stuff on ISS, and to act as a pathfinder for future, more sophisticated demos or operational versions on ISS down the road.

~Jon

Offline jongoff

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Re: Altius Space Machines Thread
« Reply #619 on: 11/28/2018 08:50 pm »
I posted a link over in the Propellant Depot section, but in case you missed it, I gave a Future In Space Operations telecon today about a concept for a LEO smallsat launcher refueling depot, and how it can be used for affordable, dedicated interplanetary smallsat missions: http://fiso.spiritastro.net/telecon/Goff_11-28-18/

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