Author Topic: Axiom Space LLC  (Read 229492 times)

Online Eric Hedman

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #520 on: 09/20/2024 12:04 am »
It is a fair and relevant observation that they don't seem to be adding much value themselves when the key deliverables are ultimately outsourced to subcontractors for their crew program and their space station program. Which pretty much only leaves space suits as a product with a concrete value add.
Correct me if I'm wrong.  But I thought Thales was basically designing and manufacturing the pressure vessels of the station while Axiom was developing the internal systems of the station.

Offline JSz

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #521 on: 09/20/2024 08:39 pm »
I notice that Axiom doesn't have any significant aerospace companies as partners. Very strange.
As mentioned, Thales build their modules, and Thales have built many of the existing ISS modules. Axiom also closely partner with SpaceX for flying actual missions, and David Clarke (veteran spacesuit maker) on the xEMU contract.

But my guess is that Thales as well as SpaceX are treating this not as a partnership, but rather as a simple commercial procurement.

It is a fair and relevant observation that they don't seem to be adding much value themselves when the key deliverables are ultimately outsourced to subcontractors for their crew program and their space station program. Which pretty much only leaves space suits as a product with a concrete value add.

That is, like a government space agency (except NASA).

Offline pathfinder_01

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #522 on: 09/25/2024 02:14 am »
It is a fair and relevant observation that they don't seem to be adding much value themselves when the key deliverables are ultimately outsourced to subcontractors for their crew program and their space station program. Which pretty much only leaves space suits as a product with a concrete value add.

The value they can add will be the Axiom module itself, if NASA acts as an anchor tenant. Subcontractors are not a problem and not always a bad thing. It would be far more expensive and time consuming for them to have to buy the tooling and set up shop to produce a module when there is another company that cranks out modules(a.k.a Cygnus modules) regularly or to develop a manned spacecraft when there is already one for hire.

Space X has a goal for Mars which is why they don't want to put other companies in the direct path to it.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #523 on: 10/03/2024 06:18 am »
https://twitter.com/jackkuhr/status/1841531224248222020

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Axiom cofounder Kam Ghaffarian posted this awesome new view of the Axiom station ISS Hab One module on LinkedIn

The module will soon be shipped from Thales Alenia in Italy to Houston

Looks so damn cool.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kamghaffarian_axiomspace-spacestation-activity-7247286941845524481-YH1Z

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I had the opportunity to visit the Thales Alenia Space factory in Italy, and I’m truly impressed by the incredible progress being made on Axiom Space's Axiom Station! Seeing the team’s dedication and expertise firsthand fills me with excitement for the future. Together, we are building a platform that will revolutionize access to space and pave the way for new possibilities in low Earth orbit. Exciting times ahead!

#AxiomSpace #spacestation

Online sdsds

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #524 on: 10/10/2024 12:27 am »
I would not be surprised if NASA delays the decommissioning of the ISS by a few years while figuring out if private stations are viable yet.

Testifying before the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee in response to a question from Rep. Webster, Axiom's Dittmar says, "Having an uncertain end date for the International Space Station is really detrimental to commercial development of low Earth orbit." Because without certainty that NASA will be a tenant of a CLD their business case doesn't close.

youtube.com/watch?v=d0cl1xlIxXQ at about 1:17:40

Berger explains this aspect of ISS decommissioning a bit better:
Quote
But perhaps most importantly, stalling on ending the International Space Station's life only further weakens the business case for private space station operators. Particularly for companies like Axiom and Voyager, uncertainty in the end of life for the station makes fundraising that much more difficult. Investors want to know that NASA really will need their private stations.

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/10/is-nasas-commercial-space-station-program-doomed/
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Offline JSz

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #525 on: 10/16/2024 04:43 pm »
Axiom's heavy version of Cupola:

https://twitter.com/AstroPeggy/status/1846193099157930405

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As someone who has lived on the Space Station I try to convey my experience to our @Axiom_Space engineers in an effort to keep a balance between aesthetics and practicality while building the new Space Station. They came to me with a beautiful, intricate handrail design. I told them ‘I wouldn't want to clean that. There would be no way to disinfect all of the little holes.' I'm all for a pretty design, but that can't outweigh efficiency.

Online eeergo

Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #526 on: 10/16/2024 10:05 pm »
Axiom's new Prada xEMU final design, with some friends around:
-DaviD-

Offline jstrotha0975

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #527 on: 10/17/2024 01:45 pm »
With Prada as a partner, I can't imagine those suits being cheap, so what's the damage?

Offline Tomness

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #528 on: 10/18/2024 03:51 am »
I would not be surprised if NASA delays the decommissioning of the ISS by a few years while figuring out if private stations are viable yet.

Testifying before the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee in response to a question from Rep. Webster, Axiom's Dittmar says, "Having an uncertain end date for the International Space Station is really detrimental to commercial development of low Earth orbit." Because without certainty that NASA will be a tenant of a CLD their business case doesn't close.

youtube.com/watch?v=d0cl1xlIxXQ at about 1:17:40

Berger explains this aspect of ISS decommissioning a bit better:
Quote
But perhaps most importantly, stalling on ending the International Space Station's life only further weakens the business case for private space station operators. Particularly for companies like Axiom and Voyager, uncertainty in the end of life for the station makes fundraising that much more difficult. Investors want to know that NASA really will need their private stations.

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/10/is-nasas-commercial-space-station-program-doomed/
Uncertainty on NASA to be Tenant of their CDL? They should just get their modules done and launch them by 2026 and their own missions can go 3 months with their own cargos runs and labs and sleeping quarters. Or NASA would love the extra space and docking ports

Online woods170

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #529 on: 10/18/2024 07:12 am »
With Prada as a partner, I can't imagine those suits being cheap, so what's the damage?

That is of no concern to NASA. NASA doesn't buy the suits. Under the xEVAS contract between Axiom and NASA, the latter basically rents the suits for a pre-determined fixed price.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #530 on: 10/18/2024 11:50 am »
With Prada as a partner, I can't imagine those suits being cheap, so what's the damage?

That is of no concern to NASA. NASA doesn't buy the suits. Under the xEVAS contract between Axiom and NASA, the latter basically rents the suits for a pre-determined fixed price.
True, but NASA needs to remain reasonably confident that Axiom will stay in business and will continue to provide suits as needed. NASA had a similar contract with Collins, but Collins dropped out.  It's OK if your second provider drops out. It's not OK if your only provider drops out.

Offline catdlr

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #531 on: 10/18/2024 03:11 pm »
With Prada as a partner, I can't imagine those suits being cheap, so what's the damage?

That is of no concern to NASA. NASA doesn't buy the suits. Under the xEVAS contract between Axiom and NASA, the latter basically rents the suits for a pre-determined fixed price.
True, but NASA needs to remain reasonably confident that Axiom will stay in business and will continue to provide suits as needed. NASA had a similar contract with Collins, but Collins dropped out.  It's OK if your second provider drops out. It's not OK if your only provider drops out.

Axiom may now have some corporate sponsors to support it, such as "The Axiom Prada Spacesuit." 

https://twitter.com/Prada/status/1847246286841385212

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Unveiled during the International Astronautical Congress, organized by the International Astronautical Federation (IAF) and hosted by Milan in its 75th edition, the Axiom Extravehicular Mobility Unit (AxEMU) spacesuit represents the result of the extraordinary collaboration between international leaders in technology, innovation and creativity.
Starting from October 18, 2024, the Axiom Space and Prada collaboration #AxEMU spacesuit is presented to the public with an installation at the Galleria Vittorio Emanuele II in Milan, as an extension of the IAC event in the heart of the city.

#Prada
@Axiom_Space
« Last Edit: 10/18/2024 03:13 pm by catdlr »
It's Tony De La Rosa, ...I don't create this stuff, I just report it.

Offline catdlr

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« Last Edit: 10/18/2024 05:46 pm by catdlr »
It's Tony De La Rosa, ...I don't create this stuff, I just report it.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Offline dondar

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #534 on: 10/20/2024 01:14 pm »
With Prada as a partner, I can't imagine those suits being cheap, so what's the damage?
Why did you assume that Prada is a contractor and not a "customer"/sponsor? The advertisement campaign they got easily would cost ~300mln otherwise.

Online Eric Hedman

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #535 on: 10/20/2024 04:58 pm »
With Prada as a partner, I can't imagine those suits being cheap, so what's the damage?
Why did you assume that Prada is a contractor and not a "customer"/sponsor? The advertisement campaign they got easily would cost ~300mln otherwise.
Because according to the Axiom website: https://www.axiomspace.com/release/prada-axiom-suit this is a partnership.  Prada helped develop the suit.  The article explains some of the work Prada did.

Online woods170

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #536 on: 10/22/2024 06:08 pm »
With Prada as a partner, I can't imagine those suits being cheap, so what's the damage?

That is of no concern to NASA. NASA doesn't buy the suits. Under the xEVAS contract between Axiom and NASA, the latter basically rents the suits for a pre-determined fixed price.
True, but NASA needs to remain reasonably confident that Axiom will stay in business and will continue to provide suits as needed. NASA had a similar contract with Collins, but Collins dropped out.  It's OK if your second provider drops out. It's not OK if your only provider drops out.

This is a risk that NASA is well aware of. It was acceptable to them because NASA's own xEMU efforts were not going to result in a flight-ready suit until around 2030 at the very earliest. So, going "commercial" comes with additional risk, but also with a chance that an EMU replacement is ready years earlier. Same for the lunar suit. Given the pros and cons, NASA decided to take the risk. A decision I fully agree with.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #537 on: 10/22/2024 06:16 pm »
With Prada as a partner, I can't imagine those suits being cheap, so what's the damage?

That is of no concern to NASA. NASA doesn't buy the suits. Under the xEVAS contract between Axiom and NASA, the latter basically rents the suits for a pre-determined fixed price.
True, but NASA needs to remain reasonably confident that Axiom will stay in business and will continue to provide suits as needed. NASA had a similar contract with Collins, but Collins dropped out.  It's OK if your second provider drops out. It's not OK if your only provider drops out.

This is a risk that NASA is well aware of. It was acceptable to them because NASA's own xEMU efforts were not going to result in a flight-ready suit until around 2030 at the very earliest. So, going "commercial" comes with additional risk, but also with a chance that an EMU replacement is ready years earlier. Same for the lunar suit. Given the pros and cons, NASA decided to take the risk. A decision I fully agree with.
I completely agree with you. I was quibbling with your wording, not with your sentiment. What I meant was that it is not "of no concern", a phrase that usually means "none of their business".

Offline theonlyspace

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #538 on: 10/24/2024 07:54 pm »
What is going on with Axion space station being downsized?

Online Eric Hedman

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Re: Axiom Space LLC
« Reply #539 on: 10/25/2024 03:30 am »
What is going on with Axion space station being downsized?
What are you talking about?  DO you have any links to news about Axiom downsizing their station plans?

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