Author Topic: "Direct" Pad Designs  (Read 15741 times)

Offline Avron

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Re: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #20 on: 10/06/2006 04:46 am »
Quote
kraisee - 5/10/2006  3:38 PM

One thing I was thinking about was a 'rack' of service arms.   A single block of trusswork, starting about 100ft above the Deck-0 height, and going all the way up.   Every 10-ft section could have a work platform which extends on the end providing full access up and down the rocket.

Something that sort of physical size might be strong enough to have a small crane integrated in, but I doubt a simple service arm would be strong enough to lift any really significant masses.

Ross.

Something like the inside of the VAB but mobile (can be rotated/ moved out the way for launch.?.. with covering to protect from the elements.. two halves that move away from the LV, prior to launch... for that to work.. it needs structural strength to take high wind loads.. may as well make its strong enough to lift heavy loads, say replace large components... Jim's  not like to know where I am going.. but lets really think out of the box.. it could save billions, reduce process flow times.. lower risks and provide the ultimate access at the pad while providing high end protection from the nasties that come in from time to time off the Altantic..

Offline Jim

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Re: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #21 on: 10/06/2006 09:57 am »
They are trying to keep the pad time to less than one week.   Avron, your structure will cost billions.  SLC-40 MST cost a 1/2 billion in the early 90's and that wasn't used for vehicle buildup.    the maintanance on the structure is unreal being so close to the coast.

Offline simcosmos

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Re: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #22 on: 10/06/2006 10:27 am »
Quote
Avron - 6/10/2006  5:29 AM

Something like the inside of the VAB but mobile (can be rotated/ moved out the way for launch.?.. with covering to protect from the elements.. two halves that move away from the LV, prior to launch... for that to work.. it needs structural strength to take high wind loads.. may as well make its strong enough to lift heavy loads, say replace large components... Jim's  not like to know where I am going.. but lets really think out of the box.. it could save billions, reduce process flow times.. lower risks and provide the ultimate access at the pad while providing high end protection from the nasties that come in from time to time off the Altantic..

Hehehe, that would probably mean something like SLC6 >> STS Vandenbeg facilities(!?):
http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/shuttle/vandenberg/SLC6%201979.htm
( http://www.capcomespace.net )

Or like Delta Heavy, also at Vandenberg:
http://capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/lanceurs_US/delta/delta_SLC6.htm

Or like Soyuz at Kourou:
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/ESA_Permanent_Mission_in_Russia/SEMMRIMVGJE_1.html

Or like Zenit:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/baikonur_zenit.html


I mean: mobile and fully enclosed (if needed) access to launcher on the launch pad. In theory things could be adapted for different launchers but I agree, it would mean even greater alterations to pad39 and more costs in several fronts that might not be compensated by expected flight rates of Ares / Direct launchers, unless such kind of structures could be planned to really be adaptable to several launcher configurations / upgrades or even future launcher types and there was a boost in flight frequency, do not know... What I know is that what will write next will not be too much professional or, at least, in concordance with NASA's reality (far from that) but... think in the universal repair / maintenance / preparation / access bays from BattleTech / Mechwarrior Universes :)

António

my pics @ flickr

Offline kraisee

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Re: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #23 on: 10/06/2006 06:27 pm »
A relatively simple umbilical tower which allows all the finicky connections to be done and checked inside the VAB.   António has done a great job of depicting such a thing in the picture he's prepared.   I'll attach it here as well...

Then the Fixed Service Structure, being permanently located at the Pad, provides the maintenance access to all the crucial bits while the various stacks are at the Pad - including providing a fixed escape system which does not need to be re-aligned every time you roll out.

The White Room service arm would be bigger than today, with a clamshell 360deg walkaround whiteroom which provides a fully protective environment for the Orion itself.   I have also attached a crude drawing of the sort of concept I'm proposing - please be kind, because it is rough and has no real engineering involved yet :)

The FSS, being fixed to the ground, could also offer the very best large-scale damper arm suitable for supporting either vehicle during storms.

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Offline kraisee

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Re: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #24 on: 10/06/2006 07:35 pm »
Additionally, I have a series of wonderful hi-res images from a session with António (Simcosmos) this afternoon showing a CLV flight for Direct...

http://65.33.118.71/Public/Direct/NASA_DirectSDLV_DEVWIP20061006simcosmos_00.jpg">
http://65.33.118.71/Public/Direct/NASA_DirectSDLV_DEVWIP20061006simcosmos_01.jpg">
http://65.33.118.71/Public/Direct/NASA_DirectSDLV_DEVWIP20061006simcosmos_02b.jpg">
http://65.33.118.71/Public/Direct/NASA_DirectSDLV_DEVWIP20061006simcosmos_03.jpg">
http://65.33.118.71/Public/Direct/NASA_DirectSDLV_DEVWIP20061006simcosmos_04.jpg">
http://65.33.118.71/Public/Direct/NASA_DirectSDLV_DEVWIP20061006simcosmos_06a.jpg">
http://65.33.118.71/Public/Direct/NASA_DirectSDLV_DEVWIP20061006simcosmos_06b.jpg">
http://65.33.118.71/Public/Direct/NASA_DirectSDLV_DEVWIP20061006simcosmos_06c.jpg">
http://65.33.118.71/Public/Direct/NASA_DirectSDLV_DEVWIP20061006simcosmos_07a.jpg">
http://65.33.118.71/Public/Direct/NASA_DirectSDLV_DEVWIP20061006simcosmos_07b.jpg">
http://65.33.118.71/Public/Direct/NASA_DirectSDLV_DEVWIP20061006simcosmos_07c.jpg">

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Offline Wolverine

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Re: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #25 on: 10/06/2006 08:23 pm »
Beautiful!!!

Offline zerm

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Re: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #26 on: 10/08/2006 03:09 am »
That's some of the coolest stuff ever! NASA should contract him to do that!

Offline publiusr

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Re: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #27 on: 11/03/2006 08:27 pm »
If there is a downselect to Atlas V, with Delta IV being nixed, perhaps a SLC-6 DIRECT pad will be a possibility.

Offline wannamoonbase

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RE: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #28 on: 11/18/2006 01:36 am »
Love the graphics.  Really beautiful.  Loving the idea more and more (especially as the Stick price climbs.)

I would support the idea of doing as much work as possible in the VAB and minimize pad time and work.  No question, that with enough up front design and integration you can simplify processing time.  The Atlas V and Zenit are both clean pads (sea launch is a little different granted) but and work well.

I am sure that the excellent engineering power of NASA could make this possible with this vehicle.
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5

Offline Jim

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Re: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #29 on: 11/18/2006 01:47 am »
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publiusr - 3/11/2006  4:10 PM

If there is a downselect to Atlas V, with Delta IV being nixed, perhaps a SLC-6 DIRECT pad will be a possibility.

There is no need for these capability on the west coast

Offline John Duncan

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Re: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #30 on: 11/20/2006 02:48 pm »
The Apollo CSM was often wrapped in either plastic or a tailored tarp of some kind...I've got some photos somewhere.  If fact, I remember much of the S-IVB being wrapped in plastic for the trip to the pad before the MSS was rolled out.

An extensible weather protective shell for the CSM shouldn't be that hard to devise.  Or just make a BPC for the SM and jettison it during ascent.

Great stuff Ross.  Direct is the way to go.


Offline Jim

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Re: "Direct" Pad Designs
« Reply #31 on: 11/20/2006 03:02 pm »
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John Duncan - 20/11/2006  10:31 AM

The Apollo CSM was often wrapped in either plastic or a tailored tarp of some kind...I've got some photos somewhere.  If fact, I remember much of the S-IVB being wrapped in plastic for the trip to the pad before the MSS was rolled out.

An extensible weather protective shell for the CSM shouldn't be that hard to devise.  Or just make a BPC for the SM and jettison it during ascent.

Great stuff Ross.  Direct is the way to go.


Those were shipping covers and they were not weatherproof

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