But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory. For NASA/ESA/other govt planetary science, you'd lob a satellite/cruse stage like mass with highest C3 (I'd shoot for out of solar system as highest velocity) on an accurate trajectory (possibly shooting by an well know asteroid). For NSS, inject a major mass simulator into a difficult orbit, with a high enough eccentricity for specific reentry in a chosen spot. For large geosats, likewise a mass simulator into a GTO-1500 would be desirable.Those would be missions that would demonstrate skill and performance. If you do them successively, your repeat-ability becomes encouraging for use by actual customers. It would be the thing that SX's rivals would be chilled to the bone with.Because it would be worth an greatly increased chance at a few hundred million of revenue, not marketing expense. Yes, I know this doesn't mean anything to most fans. I get that.As it is, he's doing them a favor.They don't have to take FH seriously for another few years. But then let's cater to the fans, who a few months later by griping about some other thing like BFS being late ...
Not saying the next gen Roadster special upgrade package *will* definitely enable it to fly short hops, but maybe … Certainly possible. Just a question of safety. Rocket tech applied to a car opens up revolutionary possibilities.
Quote from: inonepiece on 12/03/2017 02:57 pmPeople do understand viral marketing, and this is that. It's also a bit of fun. And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.Evaluated it alongside the "wheel of cheese". Formally as a business effect.The cheese wheel barely trended briefly. Likewise this will as well. Estimate that the amount of "influence" is worth a few million as an advertising campaign. Whoopee.For comparison, the "landing circus" had a few hundred million, which when it landed successfully went to a half billion. Not bad.But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory.
People do understand viral marketing, and this is that. It's also a bit of fun. And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.
Launching his Roadster has much more impact reaching a global mass audience.
If Musk can launch a stock roadster (no course adjustment equipment) and nail his intended heliocentric orbit, that would be pretty impressive imo.
We heard a lot of the same 'not serious' discussion when he named the Drone ships Just Read The Instructions and Of Course I Still Love You. Doesn't seem to have reduced their reliability or his success at bringing boosters or customers on board.
Maintaining your sense of humor or whimsy is not a 'character flaw'. Acting like the steely eyed rocket man is better? ...perhaps to some...
Throwing a car out into space changes the conversation. It demystifies things a bit. The absurdity makes it inherently relatable. Everyone has a car and can imagine theirs sailing off into space.
Not many people have a Spacecraft in their garage. It will be a catalyst to more space related creative thinking than any 6-Billion Journey To Mars posters and hashtags. I can't wait to see the mission patch and Fairing Creative.
I mean, if they have a video/audio stream of the car playing Space Oddity during launch...what a way to kick off a new year. God knows we could use a bit of levity...
You've identified your biggest serious competitor has a very long successful launch record and a strong pre-existing relationship with several large institutional customers. You simply can't match this because you have just not been in the business long enough to do so.
Fortunately for you they are effectively handicapped by joint parents who are completely fixated on short term gains and don't believe there is anything to worry about. Which suits you just fine. So you need to test you new LV without obviously demonstrating the level of skills you have in a way that's obvious enough to arouse the concern of your competitors parents.
On this basis any fairly heavy object would be suitable as a surrogate payload. Sending your car to Mars maintains the "Elon Musk, what a crazzzzy guy, eh?" image, while in fact giving your Operations team a fairly hard test of their skills in trajectory design and propulsion management, while fulfilling the goal that anything SX does is with aim of getting you to Mars betters/faster/cheaper.
By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.
Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life.
Also if SpaceX wants to they can launch a boilerplate Dragon or whatever else is considered "useful" on the next flight.
What really matters in the eyes of potential customers for this first flight isn't the payload, it's whether the rocket blows up or not.
Quote from: Space Ghost 1962 on 12/03/2017 08:28 pmQuote from: inonepiece on 12/03/2017 02:57 pmPeople do understand viral marketing, and this is that. It's also a bit of fun. And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.Evaluated it alongside the "wheel of cheese". Formally as a business effect.The cheese wheel barely trended briefly. Likewise this will as well. Estimate that the amount of "influence" is worth a few million as an advertising campaign. Whoopee.For comparison, the "landing circus" had a few hundred million, which when it landed successfully went to a half billion. Not bad.But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory. Part of "enthusing" HSF is having the public view it in a positive light. I gave my bi-annual space lecture yesterday (and of course Elon decides to drop this nugget immediately afterwards. We really need to talk about scheduling). The students really enjoyed the humorous tone of the landing failure video SpaceX put out recently. By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life.
Quote from: Endeavour_01 on 12/03/2017 10:36 pmQuote from: Space Ghost 1962 on 12/03/2017 08:28 pmQuote from: inonepiece on 12/03/2017 02:57 pmPeople do understand viral marketing, and this is that. It's also a bit of fun. And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.Evaluated it alongside the "wheel of cheese". Formally as a business effect.The cheese wheel barely trended briefly. Likewise this will as well. Estimate that the amount of "influence" is worth a few million as an advertising campaign. Whoopee.For comparison, the "landing circus" had a few hundred million, which when it landed successfully went to a half billion. Not bad.But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory. Part of "enthusing" HSF is having the public view it in a positive light. I gave my bi-annual space lecture yesterday (and of course Elon decides to drop this nugget immediately afterwards. We really need to talk about scheduling). The students really enjoyed the humorous tone of the landing failure video SpaceX put out recently. By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life. Well, we sort did during Apollo... https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.html
Quote from: Rocket Science on 12/04/2017 12:28 amQuote from: Endeavour_01 on 12/03/2017 10:36 pmQuote from: Space Ghost 1962 on 12/03/2017 08:28 pmQuote from: inonepiece on 12/03/2017 02:57 pmPeople do understand viral marketing, and this is that. It's also a bit of fun. And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.Evaluated it alongside the "wheel of cheese". Formally as a business effect.The cheese wheel barely trended briefly. Likewise this will as well. Estimate that the amount of "influence" is worth a few million as an advertising campaign. Whoopee.For comparison, the "landing circus" had a few hundred million, which when it landed successfully went to a half billion. Not bad.But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory. Part of "enthusing" HSF is having the public view it in a positive light. I gave my bi-annual space lecture yesterday (and of course Elon decides to drop this nugget immediately afterwards. We really need to talk about scheduling). The students really enjoyed the humorous tone of the landing failure video SpaceX put out recently. By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life. Well, we sort did during Apollo... https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.htmlA glorified golf cart. Politely putting it. The polar opposite of any Tesla!
Quote from: pb2000 on 12/03/2017 09:00 pmIf Musk can launch a stock roadster (no course adjustment equipment) and nail his intended heliocentric orbit, that would be pretty impressive imo.As long as he has enough thrust/duration for boosters/US, he could be off by as much as 30 degrees in any direction and make a heliocentric orbit. So sans LOM or severe under performance, no big deal.If you're going to do anything, do it with skill and accuracy. If it blows up anyway, its still the same. And if it doesn't, then every mission second further buys you that much more mission success. That you accomplished so much. That's a certain truth with no cynicism.
Quote from: Zed_Noir on 12/04/2017 12:35 amQuote from: Rocket Science on 12/04/2017 12:28 amQuote from: Endeavour_01 on 12/03/2017 10:36 pmQuote from: Space Ghost 1962 on 12/03/2017 08:28 pmQuote from: inonepiece on 12/03/2017 02:57 pmPeople do understand viral marketing, and this is that. It's also a bit of fun. And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.Evaluated it alongside the "wheel of cheese". Formally as a business effect.The cheese wheel barely trended briefly. Likewise this will as well. Estimate that the amount of "influence" is worth a few million as an advertising campaign. Whoopee.For comparison, the "landing circus" had a few hundred million, which when it landed successfully went to a half billion. Not bad.But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory. Part of "enthusing" HSF is having the public view it in a positive light. I gave my bi-annual space lecture yesterday (and of course Elon decides to drop this nugget immediately afterwards. We really need to talk about scheduling). The students really enjoyed the humorous tone of the landing failure video SpaceX put out recently. By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life. Well, we sort did during Apollo... https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.htmlA glorified golf cart. Politely putting it. The polar opposite of any Tesla! It at least had a functional, operational purpose. In space. Not true of the Tesla.
If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory.
For NASA/ESA/other govt planetary science, you'd lob a satellite/cruse stage like mass with highest C3 (I'd shoot for out of solar system as highest velocity) on an accurate trajectory (possibly shooting by an well know asteroid).
Those would be missions that would demonstrate skill and performance.
Quote from: Endeavour_01 on 12/03/2017 10:36 pmLaunching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life. Well, we sort of already did during Apollo... https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.html
They should use the flight to test the fairing, and with the same mindset that put the first wheel of cheese in space, under that fairing should be a Tesla roadster. The first car in space and with a reignition of the second stage, the first car in solar orbit or on an escape trajectory out of the solar system. Inside the car, cameras and a telemetry system, powered by the car's lithium ion cells, which should last while a while if low powered enough or indefinitely with solar panels on the hood, roof and rear deck lid. Imagine the marketing and PR buzz.
We still haven't heard definitively if he intends the car to enter a stable mars orbit, or merely do a flyby, but either way, if the payload ends up on the right trajectory, it'll be a win for SpaceX.
Quote from: john smith 19 on 12/03/2017 10:21 pmYou've identified your biggest serious competitor has a very long successful launch record and a strong pre-existing relationship with several large institutional customers. You simply can't match this because you have just not been in the business long enough to do so. Sounds ... fatalistic?QuoteFortunately for you they are effectively handicapped by joint parents who are completely fixated on short term gains and don't believe there is anything to worry about. Which suits you just fine. So you need to test you new LV without obviously demonstrating the level of skills you have in a way that's obvious enough to arouse the concern of your competitors parents. So the advantage gained is to not "scare the competition"?QuoteOn this basis any fairly heavy object would be suitable as a surrogate payload. Sending your car to Mars maintains the "Elon Musk, what a crazzzzy guy, eh?" image, while in fact giving your Operations team a fairly hard test of their skills in trajectory design and propulsion management, while fulfilling the goal that anything SX does is with aim of getting you to Mars betters/faster/cheaper. Advantage of "crazzzy guy" please?Look, any mission you fly will have people pouring over it examining vehicle performance - that's all the same.Sounds to me all we're saying here is coming up with ways to "handicap" (as in golf) the performance, in asking for a "mulligan" in advance?