Author Topic: Help with Identifying Close Satellite Pairs  (Read 2491 times)

Offline ralfvandebergh

On November 21, 2025, at approximately 17h:11m UTC, I observed a satellite from the south of the Netherlands that, to the naked eye, appeared noticeably elongated compared to the point-shaped stars. With 7x50 binoculars, I saw two satellites flying close together in tandem. The separation was such that I think they can just be separated with the naked eye if you look closely. The direction was south to north indicating a polar orbit. Based on angular velocity, the altitude was roughly estimated between 300 and 500 km. A few minutes later, I saw another similar pair, and the next morning, while I was outside observing a comet, I saw another similar pair - this time through the tracking scope while I was preparing my equipment. They were definitely not Starlink satellites because I would have recognized them immediately by their characteristic blue color and orbit.

This must be something from recent launches using a new concept. I've never seen this before in 15 years of active satellite observation. I have seen tandem satellites and the familiar Starlink trains, but this is something else. They appear to be newly launched satellites that still need to separate. In any case, they appear to be two identical payloads of equal brightness; for example, it doesn't look like a satellite is inspecting another. Any idea which launches we're dealing with here? If I know that, I can predict the transits for future times and try to get the objects into the telescope that way. Perhaps I can do that in a single frame, which would be great.

Thanks in advance,
Ralf

https://satellite-imaging.jouwweb.nl/selected-project-samples-best-works

« Last Edit: 12/01/2025 05:55 pm by ralfvandebergh »

Offline JulesVerneATV

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Re: Help with Identifying Close Satellite Pairs
« Reply #1 on: 12/01/2025 06:06 pm »
I think Heavens Above now have an app for the phone but you have to pay to download it

also

https://www.satobs.org/satintro.html
,
https://mmccants.org/auspred.html
,
https://www.space-track.org/

Offline ralfvandebergh

Re: Help with Identifying Close Satellite Pairs
« Reply #2 on: 12/01/2025 06:41 pm »
Thanks for those. I previously checked Heavens Above which I generally use for observations but so far, no match.

Ralf
« Last Edit: 12/01/2025 06:45 pm by ralfvandebergh »

Offline dondar

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Re: Help with Identifying Close Satellite Pairs
« Reply #3 on: 12/03/2025 09:53 pm »
On November 21, 2025, at approximately 17h:11m UTC, I observed a satellite from the south of the Netherlands that, to the naked eye, appeared noticeably elongated compared to the point-shaped stars. With 7x50 binoculars, I saw two satellites flying close together in tandem. The separation was such that I think they can just be separated with the naked eye if you look closely. The direction was south to north indicating a polar orbit. Based on angular velocity, the altitude was roughly estimated between 300 and 500 km. A few minutes later, I saw another similar pair, and the next morning, while I was outside observing a comet, I saw another similar pair - this time through the tracking scope while I was preparing my equipment. They were definitely not Starlink satellites because I would have recognized them immediately by their characteristic blue color and orbit.

This must be something from recent launches using a new concept. I've never seen this before in 15 years of active satellite observation. I have seen tandem satellites and the familiar Starlink trains, but this is something else. They appear to be newly launched satellites that still need to separate. In any case, they appear to be two identical payloads of equal brightness; for example, it doesn't look like a satellite is inspecting another. Any idea which launches we're dealing with here? If I know that, I can predict the transits for future times and try to get the objects into the telescope that way. Perhaps I can do that in a single frame, which would be great.

Thanks in advance,
Ralf

https://satellite-imaging.jouwweb.nl/selected-project-samples-best-works
most probably slow ("late") separation of the satellite from the fourth stage (Chinese don't bother with cleaning orbits). But it could be the repetition of TJS-3 (fun thing if it was reported correctly).
TJS-21 was launched to Molniya orbit so it fits your description.
TJS is a chinese analogue of soviet Kosmos designation, and means exactly nothing. "a government own satellite"

Offline ralfvandebergh

Re: Help with Identifying Close Satellite Pairs
« Reply #4 on: 12/04/2025 07:32 pm »
Thank you for this info. I also found it remarkable that I saw three of these pairs in one day, even though I'd never seen them before. Or just a coincidence?

Ralf
« Last Edit: 12/04/2025 07:58 pm by ralfvandebergh »

Offline plugger.lockett

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Re: Help with Identifying Close Satellite Pairs
« Reply #5 on: 12/11/2025 10:46 pm »
It's not entirely simple, but arguably one of the best way to identify unknown satellites is via doppler shift analysis with a tool like strf.
https://github.com/cbassa/strf

Offline ralfvandebergh

Re: Help with Identifying Close Satellite Pairs
« Reply #6 on: 12/22/2025 04:45 pm »
A subsequent observation of a close pair of satellites, as described in the first observation, occurred on December 11th around 16:30 UTC. (I don't have the exact time, as I was traveling at the time.) This time, the two satellites were individually visible to the naked eye, thus further apart, and at first glance strongly resembled a relatively small passenger jet at cruising altitude. Upon closer inspection, there were no flashing lights, and as I continued tracking the pair, they dimmed and eventually disappeared into the Earth's shadow. Their direction was north again.

- The direction of motion was an estimated 10 to 25 degrees relative to the imaginary line through the two satellites of the pair, just as in the previous observation, by the way. (but not mentioned there).


Do we now know for sure what's being observed here?

Ralf
« Last Edit: 12/22/2025 05:05 pm by ralfvandebergh »

Offline ralfvandebergh

Re: Help with Identifying Close Satellite Pairs
« Reply #7 on: 12/23/2025 11:36 am »
Thank you for your efforts and link,

Best wishes,
Ralf


It's not entirely simple, but arguably one of the best way to identify unknown satellites is via doppler shift analysis with a tool like strf.
https://github.com/cbassa/strf

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