Author Topic: Fusion with space related aspects thread (Read 1329330 times)

Robotbeat · « **Reply #4140 on:** 04/09/2025 03:36 pm »

“The electricity is a side product of Helium-3 production, so it’s free” and “Helium-3 is a side product of electricity production, so it’s free” are equally bad arguments.

Is it worth doing Helium-3 production without electricity as the main revenue source? If not, then it’s not a real, scalable source of Helium-3 (as it’ll always be limited by electricity as the profit source). So for the purposes of discussion I want to know what Helion’s cost is to make Helium-3 by itself if there was no market for electricity. Other stuff is word games.

From what I can tell, if the Helion fusion electricity price is roughly breakeven (ie equal to grid price on the high end to their hoped-for cost on the low end), cost of helium-3 dedicated production would be around $1M-20M/kg, approximately the same as the current price on the high end to around the price of optimized bulk helium separation on the low end.

Elmar Moelzer · « **Reply #4141 on:** 04/10/2025 10:30 pm »

Quote from: edzieba on 04/08/2025 04:54 pm

Sure, the side products are 'free money' if you can manage to sell them as "buyer collects (from reactor vessel), some cleanup required". If you need to refine them to purified He3 in order to sell, then what you need to compare is how hot fusion reactor effluents compare in difficulty and cost to acquire+handle+refine to other feedstocks.

Helion has to extract and separate the fusion products and unburnt fuel anyway. Tritium extraction is actually the easiest one since there are already off- the shelf technologies for it. Separating the He3 from Alpha particles (D-He3 ash) is the most difficult part but Helion thinks that they have that covered too.

Elmar Moelzer · « **Reply #4142 on:** 04/10/2025 10:37 pm »

Quote from: Robotbeat on 04/09/2025 03:36 pm

“The electricity is a side product of Helium-3 production, so it’s free” and “Helium-3 is a side product of electricity production, so it’s free” are equally bad arguments.

Is it worth doing Helium-3 production without electricity as the main revenue source? If not, then it’s not a real, scalable source of Helium-3 (as it’ll always be limited by electricity as the profit source). So for the purposes of discussion I want to know what Helion’s cost is to make Helium-3 by itself if there was no market for electricity. Other stuff is word games.

From what I can tell, if the Helion fusion electricity price is roughly breakeven (ie equal to grid price on the high end to their hoped-for cost on the low end), cost of helium-3 dedicated production would be around $1M-20M/kg, approximately the same as the current price on the high end to around the price of optimized bulk helium separation on the low end.

This is NOT what I said. Please read again what I said.

"Quite frankly, at those prices, Helion could give away the electricity for free and make (a lot more) profit from just selling the Tritium... "

This of course would mean that they still have He3 for D-He3 reactions (that produce electricity).

I then said

"Heck, they could just focus on selling those isotopes and even have a small loss on the electric side."

So, a potentially small loss on the electric side but larger gain on the isotope side of both are sold (with maybe only just enough He3 retained to break even electric or maybe even accepting a small loss).

I don't see what is so hard to understand about this. Maybe I need to emphasize that D-D reactions by themselves will also release energy. Helion is currently not sure whether that is enough for the machine to break even on just D-D, though. So, a small loss is possible from that (which is more than made up for with the energy from D-He3 reactions).

Robotbeat · « **Reply #4143 on:** 04/11/2025 05:52 am »

I wasn’t speaking of your comment in particular. In general, when the topic comes up, people are evasive on how much it’ll cost and sometimes claim it’s free as a side product. We can do some rough estimations. That’s what I did.

Elmar Moelzer · « **Reply #4144 on:** 04/23/2025 05:08 pm »

Fusion Industry Association Fusion Propulsion Roadmap:

https://www.fusionindustryassociation.org/fia-launches-fusion-spacecraft-propulsion-roadmap/

InterestedEngineer · « **Reply #4145 on:** 04/26/2025 06:53 pm »

Did Helicity go bankrupt? Their website no longer works

https://www.helicityspace.com/aboutus

greybeardengineer · « **Reply #4146 on:** 04/26/2025 07:23 pm »

Quote from: Elmar Moelzer on 04/23/2025 05:08 pm

Fusion Industry Association Fusion Propulsion Roadmap:

https://www.fusionindustryassociation.org/fia-launches-fusion-spacecraft-propulsion-roadmap/

I've got a great idea for those folks. How about stow all the magical thinking talk about spacecraft propulsion until *after* they can finally demonstrate consistent and sustained net useful energy output from controlled fusion here on the ground.

If you can't do that fundamental feat on the ground after many decades of trying with virtually unlimited mass, volume, and dollar budgets then talking about fusion based spacecraft propulsion is utterly ludicrous.

StraumliBlight · « **Reply #4147 on:** 04/26/2025 08:03 pm »

Quote from: InterestedEngineer on 04/26/2025 06:53 pm

Did Helicity go bankrupt? Their website no longer works

https://www.helicityspace.com/aboutus

https://who.is/whois/helicityspace.com

Website was originally registered on April 25, 2018 and was updated today to be valid until 2026.

StraumliBlight · « **Reply #4148 on:** 05/22/2025 11:58 am »

Updated animation now using Starship.

https://sunbird.pulsarfusion.com/

PULSAR Linkedin [May 20]

Quote

NEWS FLASH 🎆Pulsar Fusion’s Power Processing Unit is Orbit-Bound! 🚀

We’re excited to share that our PPU (Power Processing Unit) for Hall Effect Thrusters has reached a major milestone. Our MVP (Minimum Viable Payload) hardware is not only live and branded—it’s built, integrated, and undergoing vibration testing ahead of its first IOD (In-Orbit Demonstration) mission.

This marks a pivotal step forward for Pulsar Fusion’s spaceflight heritage. The payload design has been refined with compliant components, thermal integration features and a custom Boost Converter to match input voltages for orbital operations.

Launch is now targeted for Q1 2026, and we’re proud to be working hand-in-hand with our spacecraft integrators to make this mission a success.

Fusion propulsion is the long game—but the road to it is paved with proven electric propulsion technologies. This is how we get there.

Quote

Spacedock examines Richard Dinan's Pulsar Fusion and their "Sunbird" fusion rocket concept.

anonymous · « **Reply #4149 on:** 05/24/2025 03:58 pm »

Fortune: Nuclear fusion is the tech that could power AI and save the planet—if it ever works

https://fortune.com/2025/05/07/nuclear-fusion-energy-ai-sam-altman-helion-pacific-commonwealth-timelines/

The article pours some cold water on fusion companies' promises of commercial power soon.

SciNews · « **Reply #4150 on:** 06/16/2025 02:33 pm »

Pulsar Fusion 500W & 5KW
images from BBC Four - The Sky at Night, Secrets of the Red Planet
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002c5dz

Robotbeat · « **Reply #4151 on:** 06/16/2025 03:43 pm »

Looks like a Hall Effect thruster on the last image.

SciNews · « **Reply #4152 on:** 06/17/2025 08:34 pm »

Yes, Hall Effect Thruster LeoBear 500W & MoonRanger 5kW
https://pulsarfusion.com/electric-propulsion/
Regarding fusion propulsion in the interview:
"So, at the moment, we're deeply embedded in all of the computer simulation of the reactor, and how it work.The next step is all about building the chamber to actually test it in."