Moon Shot, Japan-Toyota...

[Tywin]

Well after SpaceIl and soon the Audi quattro, with the mission of PTScientists...it's look like Japan and Toyota want to be part of this new race for the Moon again...

Toyota is teaming up with Japan's space agency on a planned mission to the Moon, with the Japanese auto giant expected to develop a lunar rover, officials and local media said Wednesday.

It will be the car manufacturer's first full-fledged entry into space exploration, after the company jointly developed a small robot sent to the International Space Station.

"We are planning to cooperate with Toyota in an exploration mission to the Moon," said a spokesman with the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA).

Toyota also confirmed plans to announce a joint project with JAXA "on mobility and a space probe" but declined to comment further.

http://www.moondaily.com/reports/Moon_shot_Toyota_Japan_space_agency_plan_lunar_mission_999.html

Well this is more interesting every day...

[Blackstar]

"Jiji Press news agency said the car giant is expected to jointly develop a "mobility method" to be used on the lunar surface for the mission."

Sounds like they want to build a rover. The only surprise is that they want to do it, but I have no doubts that they could do it. Toyota is a huge company with a lot of high tech expertise, and what they don't have they can buy. I only hope they decide to put some serious money into it.

[mcgyver]

Live press conference right now:
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[TrevorMonty]

While landers are essential for reaching lunar surface, its pressurized rovers like this that well enable humans to explore moon and maybe Mars.

I'd actually put these rovers ahead of a moon base in importance.

[yoichi]

http://global.jaxa.jp/press/2019/03/20190312a.html

JAXA and Toyota Reach Agreement on Taking Up the Challenge
of International Space Exploration —Aim is to make future lunar mobility a reality—

Tokyo, Japan, March 12, 2019—The Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) and Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) agreed today to study the possibility of collaborating on international space exploration. As a first step, JAXA and Toyota agreed to further cooperate on and accelerate their ongoing joint study*1 of a manned, pressurized rover*2 that employs fuel cell vehicle technologies. Such a form of mobility is deemed necessary for human exploration activities on the lunar surface. Even with the limited amount of energy that can be transported to the moon, the pressurized rover would have a total lunar-surface cruising range of more than 10,000 km.

Concept proposal for the pressurized rover being studied by JAXA and Toyota
Length: 6.0 m; width: 5.2 m; height: 3.8 m (about the size of two microbuses)
Living space: 13m3
Capable of accommodating two people (four people in an emergency)

[mythos917]

More images from Toyota's press release.

[Steven Pietrobon]

OMG, at the end of the video, you see the Earth rising from the Lunar surface! You would only see that if this happens:

[daedalus1]

OMG, at the end of the video, you see the Earth rising from the Lunar surface! You would only see that if this happens:

LOL yes correct. I'm currently watching that series on UK tv. One of the first episodes takes place on Ultima Thule.

[jarnu]

There are other car-related web places where they also show the video, or a link to the youtube video, plus the official photos and the bits of info Toyota and Jaxa provided.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/03/toyotas-lunar-rover-will-allow-humans-to-drive-on-the-moon-again/
But, again, it seems the same info. Youtube in English:

My questions, as early as it is, are: Big hardware, how they plan to transport and deploy this vehicle there? Few lights at the front, I expected to have more of them, and all around, if the vehicle is prepared for the lunar night. Fuel Cell means tanks of liquid hydrogen, stored in the vehicle long term. Is it not a problem nowadays? And the reason you can't have space hydrogen tanks waiting for a vehicle in orbit? Exposed long term to lunar surface: radiation, micro-meteoroids, protection for crew, ... More than a vehicle for surface operations, if the size, pressurized internal environment, and long range, will be what they announce, it seems more like a surface mobile lunar base. Almost.

[Blackstar]

This is vaporware. It is going nowhere. If they had proposed something small, I would have believed it.

[plutogno]

yep. why is it even in the space science section?

[zubenelgenubi]

There is a very similar thread in the "Japanese Launchers" sub-forum:
JAXA, Toyota co-operation: crewed, pressurized, fuel-cell driven lunar rover

[catdlr]

yep. why is it even in the space science section?

I just suggested to the mods to move this to Advanced Concepts.  See what happens.

Update: Thread moved.

[mcgyver]

OMG, at the end of the video, you see the Earth rising from the Lunar surface! You would only see that if this happens:

I hope you are kidding.
https://earthsky.org/space/apollo-8-earthrise-december-24-1968-new-simulation

[edzieba]

OMG, at the end of the video, you see the Earth rising from the Lunar surface! You would only see that if this happens:

I hoppe you are kidding.
https://earthsky.org/space/apollo-8-earthrise-december-24-1968-new-simulation

The Moon is tidally locked to the Earth. You cannot see 'Earthrise' from the Lunar surface, as the Earth will not move relative to the surface (barring a small amount of libration). The Apollo 8 moonrise is due to Apollo being in orbit around the Moon, not on the Lunar surface.

[Elrond Cupboard]

If Toyota's rover travels very, very fast you could see earthrise.

[Ludus]

Zubrin’s LEV makes much more sense and would make this unnecessary. Both would have similar usable volume, both would use hydrolox but the LEV could both transport passengers from earth orbit and hop around to anywhere on the moon. This would need to be transported separately to the moon and once there would be comparatively limited in range.

Toyota just wants a plausible sounding use for fuel cells. Even on the moon, for wheeled vehicles, batteries are a better way to store limited solar power. Even when ur already making hydrogen and oxygen for propellant.

[ncb1397]

This is vaporware. It is going nowhere. If they had proposed something small, I would have believed it.

Interesting, $270 billion revenue company proposes rover, it is vaporware. $2 billion revenue company proposes BFS (many times the size), nobody bats an eye lid.

Zubrin’s LEV makes much more sense and would make this unnecessary.

Ehh, LEV permanently disposes of consumable fuel. This you could just store the by products and then recycle it back at base. Mobility would be a mix of rover + free flying vehicles.

This would need to be transported separately to the moon and once there would be comparatively limited in range.

It seems to be designed with a range goal of circumnavigating (or nearly circumnavigating) the moon which requires ~11,000 km of range.

[ncb1397]

Fuel Cell means tanks of liquid hydrogen, stored in the vehicle long term. Is it not a problem nowadays? And the reason you can't have space hydrogen tanks waiting for a vehicle in orbit?

It may not be liquid hydrogen. This design has 15 tanks. For argument's sake, I will make a few assumptions

1.)tank diameter = .3 meters
2.)tank length = 2 meters
3.)tank pressure = 1000 bar (a bit higher than the consumer grade 700 bar tanks in current hydrogen cars)
4.)the tanks shown are the hydrogen tanks and the O2 tanks aren't shown
5.)gas temperature = 10 degrees C

Each tank therefore is .14 cubic meters of volume and all tanks have a combined volume of 2.1 cubic meters. This translates to ~92,500 moles of hydrogen with a molar mass of 2 grams / mole or a total hydrogen storage capacity of 185 kg. For reference, the Hyundia Nexo is a SUV with a range of 380 miles and a hydrogen storage capacity of 6.3 kg or a fuel economy of 60 miles per kg. If this could get similar fuel economy (because of lower gravity and no air resistance despite the larger size and poor road conditions), the range would be 11,100 miles. 

edit: Adjusting my assumptions, if there are 10 tanks of H2 and 5 tanks of O2, this would reduce the range by a third to ~7400 miles or ~12,000 km. Hydrogen storage capacity would be ~123 kg and O2 capacity would be ~1000 kg.

[Asteroza]

Mobility in terms of Toyota also encompass some human size level stuff, like rideable walkers (think recliner with legs). They also do some wheeled mobility stuff, but nothing that would be suitable for regolith ops. A walker with wheeled feet might be interesting for a centaur mount type vehicle.

But this announcement smells, especially with the fuel cell stuff, which is turning into a major boondongle for Toyota and the japanese government...