Quote from: Michel Van on 05/22/2024 10:31 am<snip>The Europa II Failure report by Otto Kayser reads more like death sentence for entire Europa rocket program... The main lesson-learned from Europa was the need for a strong and central design, construction and test authority. For Arianes 1 - 5 the French space agency CNES was assigned this role, and it was quite successful.
<snip>The Europa II Failure report by Otto Kayser reads more like death sentence for entire Europa rocket program...
Roy Dommett. ‘Silos for Blue Streak’, unpublished essay (1998). Dommett mentions that 60 such silos would have required all the concrete used to build the British motorway system as it existed in 1998. His paper was written for a British Rocketry Oral History Programme directed by Dave Wright.
Interesting-looking book chapter by sometime ESA historian John Krige about UK and ELDO. Krige, J. (2020). Remain or Leave? Britain and the European Launcher Development Organisation (ELDO) in the Context of Brexit. In: Broad, M., Kansikas, S. (eds) European Integration Beyond Brussels. Security, Conflict and Cooperation in the Contemporary World. Palgrave Macmillan, Cham. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-45445-6_11It is paywalled at https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-45445-6_11 but the references are all online and many may be of interest. One or two footnotes are delightful in their own right:QuoteRoy Dommett. ‘Silos for Blue Streak’, unpublished essay (1998). Dommett mentions that 60 such silos would have required all the concrete used to build the British motorway system as it existed in 1998. His paper was written for a British Rocketry Oral History Programme directed by Dave Wright.
Quote from: leovinus on 05/17/2024 09:54 pmQuote from: leovinus on 05/06/2024 06:04 pmAs another example, the European Space tug we discussed earlier. The European designs were from Messerschmidt-Boelkow Blohm (MBB) and Hawker-Siddeley Dynamics (HSD). One located tug study was QuoteStudy of the Use of Post-Apollo Transportation Elements for High-Energy Solar System Exploration Mission (HESSEM), MBB-URV-52(72), N72-33878, June 1972 while the related study QuoteEuropean space tug system study. Pre-phase A ( MBB-URV-38-71 ] N73-19908 does not seem to be on the web as PDF anywhere. I am in the process of requesting a copy via DLR in Germany though.The DLR archives graciously sent me a copy of the missing report MBB-URV-38-71 for further study. I think it will clarify some aspects. Happy to know that we can still access at least some of these reports.I'm not sure what's their policy/legal status, but I'd definitely appreciate if you could share some informations from these reports whenever you have the time. Thanks.
Quote from: leovinus on 05/06/2024 06:04 pmAs another example, the European Space tug we discussed earlier. The European designs were from Messerschmidt-Boelkow Blohm (MBB) and Hawker-Siddeley Dynamics (HSD). One located tug study was QuoteStudy of the Use of Post-Apollo Transportation Elements for High-Energy Solar System Exploration Mission (HESSEM), MBB-URV-52(72), N72-33878, June 1972 while the related study QuoteEuropean space tug system study. Pre-phase A ( MBB-URV-38-71 ] N73-19908 does not seem to be on the web as PDF anywhere. I am in the process of requesting a copy via DLR in Germany though.The DLR archives graciously sent me a copy of the missing report MBB-URV-38-71 for further study. I think it will clarify some aspects. Happy to know that we can still access at least some of these reports.
As another example, the European Space tug we discussed earlier. The European designs were from Messerschmidt-Boelkow Blohm (MBB) and Hawker-Siddeley Dynamics (HSD). One located tug study was QuoteStudy of the Use of Post-Apollo Transportation Elements for High-Energy Solar System Exploration Mission (HESSEM), MBB-URV-52(72), N72-33878, June 1972 while the related study QuoteEuropean space tug system study. Pre-phase A ( MBB-URV-38-71 ] N73-19908 does not seem to be on the web as PDF anywhere. I am in the process of requesting a copy via DLR in Germany though.
Study of the Use of Post-Apollo Transportation Elements for High-Energy Solar System Exploration Mission (HESSEM), MBB-URV-52(72), N72-33878, June 1972
European space tug system study. Pre-phase A ( MBB-URV-38-71 ] N73-19908
one of wildes proposal for Europa Rocket:Etude d'un etage nucleare pour launceur lourd Europeen by J.A. Dupont of SNECMA, 1962a Nuclear powered stage for large launch vehicle that bring 10 ton in low earth orbitBy A Graphite-moderated uranium 235 reactor in which hydrogen is heated to 2500K°Yielding a ISP of 800 sec.The substitution of single nuclear stage for both upper stages of ELDO vehicle,Mr Dupont said, should make it possible to double the payload/initial weight ratioSource:Flight International 6 June 1963 page 892but it not stop here, ELDO was study powerful upper stage to bring Satellites into GEO next Ion - arc jet engines, were also Nerva type engine in consideration In 1971, CRYOROCKET under a CECLES/ELDO contract , order at SEP a study for small NTR engine It had to be launch as third stage on Europa III rocket. for a larger payload than 1,680 kg into from a 200km circular orbit to a 36,000 geostationary orbit.(Europa III in two stage configuration)The stage's mass is 5.5 tons for an estimated ISP of 815s The thrust was quite low, with about 2 kN.the Europa III would bring the third stage in 200 km circular orbit A first burn would bring the payload to a transfer orbit, while a second, after a ballistic phase, would go to Geostationary orbit. (stage remain in GEO ?) source: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/early-european-rocketry-projects.4130/post-675091
"Propulsion d'engins spatiaux au moyen d'un reacteur nucleair de faible puissance" P. Blanc J P Contzen pp 297-308 17 pages N70-12256 ELDO-Publ-21
[speculative mode ON]End result, circa 1968: a Blue Streak with two boosters and an hydrolox stage 2. I did some calculations: performance would be close from an Atlas Centaur. 4 mt to LEO, 1 mt to escape velocity. [speculative mode OFF]
Seems the university library of Darmstadt has allot ELDO paper and Literature since i go to visit the City i will take a look into that library
Did you manage your visit yet?
Quote from: leovinus on 06/30/2024 04:45 pmDid you manage your visit yet? yes i found the Aerospace section at Lichtwiese and copy some stuff about P111 aka HDTW Engine by MBB sadly it take long time before i can revisit Darmstadt but i try to get access to Aachen university Aerospace library.however this has restricted access and this under surveillance.Too many books there went missing by irresponsible student...
Great to heat you managed your in-person Darmstadt visit. As you mention Aachen, I know they have an air-space section but I never connected that in my mind with history, ELDO and the Europa rocket. Anything in particular you are chasing?
Sidenote: Actually, I used to live in Aachen for many years. Still have friends there. I wondered whether you mean the library at the Eupener/Weisshausstrasse which would be where I worked in the past. Small world
Quote from: leovinus on 07/02/2024 11:01 amGreat to heat you managed your in-person Darmstadt visit. As you mention Aachen, I know they have an air-space section but I never connected that in my mind with history, ELDO and the Europa rocket. Anything in particular you are chasing?The university of Darmstadt And Aachen are very active in German Spaceflight Darmstadt was involved in P111 engine project While Aachen was involved in Sanger 2 project with counter study to the Concept
Quote from: leovinus on 07/02/2024 11:01 amSidenote: Actually, I used to live in Aachen for many years. Still have friends there. I wondered whether you mean the library at the Eupener/Weisshausstrasse which would be where I worked in the past. Small world The former Phillips research center ? not yet.i dig true the decentralised library system of Aachen universitymain issue: it seems the Aerospace library is dived between Aerospace and Jet/rocket engine research centers and both have restricted access...
Quote from: leovinus on 06/30/2024 04:45 pmDid you manage your visit yet? yes i found the Aerospace section at Lichtwiese and copy some stuff about P111 aka HDTW Engine by MBB
Quote from: Michel Van on 07/01/2024 11:14 pmand copy some stuff about P111 aka HDTW Engine by MBB Damn! Did you find some interesting information about this fascinating engine?
and copy some stuff about P111 aka HDTW Engine by MBB