Author Topic: Early European spaceflight history, manned and unmanned, about 1950-1975  (Read 18582 times)

Online LittleBird

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<snip>
The Europa II  Failure report by Otto Kayser reads more like death sentence for entire Europa rocket program... 

The main lesson-learned from Europa was the need for a strong and central design, construction and test authority. For Arianes 1 - 5 the French space agency CNES was assigned this role, and it was quite successful.

There is an interesting article offering a pro-ELDO/ESA but British view from the 70s, by A V (Val) Cleaver of Rolls-Royce. It's in a 1975 iirc copy of Spaceflight so will be on archive.org but I am pretty sure this AIAA article is be same piece https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/epdf/10.2514/6.1975-313

I'll update when I have the correct citation. 

[A significant article to me. My childhood space and missile "apogee" and "perigee" respectively had been the Apollo 11 landing and the 1973 DEFCON 3 alert, the latter heard about on BBC car radio when picked up from school, aged 11. I wanted to understand these extraordinary moments that had flashed past my young eyes so fast, and Cleaver's piece was one of several, like Young et al's "Journey to Tranquillity", and Baker's still remarkable analysis of the Shuttle traffic models in Flight, that enabled me to start thinking about the full dimensions of spaceflight. 50 odd years later, I'm still hooked ;-)]

Online LittleBird

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Interesting-looking book chapter by sometime ESA historian John Krige about UK and ELDO.

Krige, J. (2020). Remain or Leave? Britain and the European Launcher Development Organisation (ELDO) in the Context of Brexit. In: Broad, M., Kansikas, S. (eds) European Integration Beyond Brussels. Security, Conflict and Cooperation in the Contemporary World. Palgrave Macmillan, Cham. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-45445-6_11

It is paywalled at  https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-45445-6_11  but the references are all online and many may be of interest. One or two footnotes are delightful in their own right:

Quote
Roy Dommett. ‘Silos for Blue Streak’, unpublished essay (1998). Dommett mentions that 60 such silos would have required all the concrete used to build the British motorway system as it existed in 1998. His paper was written for a British Rocketry Oral History Programme directed by Dave Wright.
« Last Edit: 05/23/2024 02:20 pm by LittleBird »

Offline TheKutKu

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Interesting-looking book chapter by sometime ESA historian John Krige about UK and ELDO.

Krige, J. (2020). Remain or Leave? Britain and the European Launcher Development Organisation (ELDO) in the Context of Brexit. In: Broad, M., Kansikas, S. (eds) European Integration Beyond Brussels. Security, Conflict and Cooperation in the Contemporary World. Palgrave Macmillan, Cham. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-45445-6_11

It is paywalled at  https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-45445-6_11  but the references are all online and many may be of interest. One or two footnotes are delightful in their own right:

Quote
Roy Dommett. ‘Silos for Blue Streak’, unpublished essay (1998). Dommett mentions that 60 such silos would have required all the concrete used to build the British motorway system as it existed in 1998. His paper was written for a British Rocketry Oral History Programme directed by Dave Wright.

The particular period of British policy toward ELDO that this chapter focuses on, late 1965-1966, is also described and analysed in Rob Baker "The Wilson Government's Policy toward ELDO" 2000, JBIS, 53, 371-377

Offline leovinus

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As another example, the European Space tug we discussed earlier. The European designs were from Messerschmidt-Boelkow Blohm (MBB) and Hawker-Siddeley Dynamics (HSD). One located tug study was
Quote
Study of the Use of Post-Apollo Transportation Elements for High-Energy Solar System Exploration Mission (HESSEM), MBB-URV-52(72), N72-33878, June 1972
while the related study
Quote
European space tug system study. Pre-phase A ( MBB-URV-38-71 ]  N73-19908
does not seem to be on the web as PDF anywhere. I am in the process of requesting a copy via DLR in Germany though.
The DLR archives graciously sent me a copy of the missing report MBB-URV-38-71  for further study. I think it will clarify some aspects. Happy to know that we can still access at least some of these reports.

I'm not sure what's their policy/legal status, but I'd definitely appreciate if you could share some informations from these reports whenever you have the time. Thanks.
The DLR access rights in this case are for personal study only. I will digest and share any insights as discussed. Will be a while though. Patience please :) Someone could file another request of course to open it for the everyone.

Offline leovinus

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one of wildes proposal for Europa Rocket:

Etude d'un etage nucleare pour launceur lourd Europeen by J.A. Dupont of SNECMA, 1962
a Nuclear powered stage for large launch vehicle that bring 10 ton in low earth orbit
By A Graphite-moderated uranium 235 reactor in which hydrogen is heated to 2500K°
Yielding a ISP of 800 sec.
The substitution of single nuclear stage for both upper stages of ELDO vehicle,
Mr Dupont said, should make it possible to double the payload/initial weight ratio

Source:
Flight International 6 June 1963 page 892

but it not stop here, ELDO was study powerful upper stage to bring Satellites into GEO
next Ion - arc jet engines, were also Nerva type engine in consideration

In 1971,  CRYOROCKET under a CECLES/ELDO contract , order at SEP a study for small NTR engine
It had to be launch as third stage on Europa III rocket.
for a larger payload than 1,680 kg into from a 200km circular orbit to a 36,000 geostationary orbit.
(Europa III in two stage configuration)
The stage's mass is 5.5 tons for an estimated ISP of 815s
The thrust was quite low, with about 2 kN.
the Europa III would bring the third stage in 200 km circular orbit
A first burn would bring the payload to a transfer orbit, while a second, after a ballistic phase,
would go to Geostationary orbit. (stage remain in GEO ?)

source:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/early-european-rocketry-projects.4130/post-675091
You were not kidding. That is a LOT of info on early european rockets. The French interest in a nuclear/NERVA style upper stage is great stuff. I started reading
Quote
"Propulsion d'engins spatiaux au moyen d'un reacteur nucleair de faible puissance" P. Blanc J P Contzen pp  297-308 17 pages N70-12256 ELDO-Publ-21
but I wondered whether your research has found more already? I see the Cryorocket/thermo nuclear contracts in the ESA archives but that is all in paper form which cannot be read without a visit in person.

Similarly, I loved there is a mention of "Europa IV" design and wondered whether one of you found articles already? JBIS maybe? Something German?

For the German speaking readers, there is a bunch of stuff here
https://raumfahrt-archiv-bremen.de/index.php/de/
and
https://www.raumfahrtbuecher.de/europaeische-traegerraketen1.shtml

Offline leovinus

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If anyone knows how to find the old ELDO-PUBL-xx articles then that would help :)  Here are a few primary source articles. Except for the  P. Blanc J P Contzen article, I could not locate the others yet. The STAR entry alludes that the "Present and future" article  N70-21863 should also mention Europa IV.

- Potentialities of nuclear and electric propulsion for European space programs [ELDO-PUBL-19] = 19 p3683 N69-33766
https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/dashboard/searchResults/titleDetail/N6933766.xhtml
- Nuclear reactors for low thrust propulsion of space vehicles [ELDO-PUBL-21] 02 p0326 N70-12256
  Propulsion d'engins spatiaux au moyen d'un reacteur nucleair de faible puissance
 P. Blanc J P Contzen pp  297-308 17 pages N70-12256 ELDO-Publ-21
- European launch vehicles - Present and future projects  [ELDO-PUBL-25] 09 p1739 N70-21863
  Europaeische traegerraketen - Gegenwaertige und zukuenftige projekte 12p German Richard J Jonke, Dec 1969
- ELDO launching base in French Guiana 11 p2017 N70-25154
- Blue prints for 120 rocket propulsion engines for use in Europa 3B 19 p3616 N70-35298

Offline Michel Van

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Seems the  university library of Darmstadt has allot ELDO paper and Literature
since i go to visit the City i will take a look into that library

Back to topic

The designation of Rockets

in program begin were ELDO A B C rocket, later became EUROPA 1 2 3 4
ELDO A or EUROPA 1 is rocket they try to Launch 
ELDO B was two stage rocket with Hydrolox upperstage
ELGO C was three stage rocket with two Hydrolox upperstage

Several crisis and problems the later designation:

EUROPA 1 is rocket they try to Launch
EUROPA 2 a modified EUROPA 1 for launch into GTO
EUROPA 3 was two stage rocket with Hydrolox upperstage
EUROPA 4 heavy lift rocket for 16~20 metric ton in low orbit.

Notes:
Addition of TA on EUROPA rocket
TA stands for Thrust augmented, eider P10 sold or L17 (Diamant b first stage) as Side Booster on Blue Streak.

EUROPA 3 A B C D (E?)
There were several proposal for EUROPA III rocket.
A Blue Streak with Hydrolox upperstage.
B French L120 and H20 Hydrolox (the winner - L120 stage later became part of ARIANE project)
C Italian modified 4 engine Blue Streak with Hydrolox upperstage.
D German all stage with Hydrolox with high pressure engine HDTW.
E German French Modular design ELDO ? unclear if even in consideration.

EUROPA 4
there were Mid 1960s french design for 3 stage rocket, using four upgraded RZ.2 and 6 and 1 french Hydrolox engines
Later designs were modified Blue Streak with two Blue Streak booster (each 4 RZ.2)
or use of two to four French pressure fed booster (each 4 Diamant b engines ?)   
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Offline Spiceman

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[speculative mode ON]
1-Ideally, from 1962 the anglo-french should have done Europa alone, just like Concorde.
2-UK brings Blue Streak, the French are given two things, both developped from Diamant
-------a) Coralie second stage (and perhaps a solid fuel kick stage)
-------b) Diamant L17 boosters
So in a sense, Blue Streak is envelopped with Diamant (on the sides and above)
3- with the workshare evenly split, the anglo-french move into the next step: an hydrolox second stage
4- They just bring together RZ.20 and HM-4 into a 14 mt stage (max weight Blue Streak can withstand without crumbling)
5- Dude, this looks like 1966 ELDO-B

End result, circa 1968: a Blue Streak with two boosters and an hydrolox stage 2. 
I did some calculations: performance would be close from an Atlas Centaur. 4 mt to LEO, 1 mt to escape velocity.
[speculative mode OFF]



Offline Michel Van

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Why they took Coralie ? a brand new rocket stage yet to build and tested !

Vesta/Super-Veronique evolved slowly into Cassiopée/Emeraude rocket stage 1957-1964
But Testing was problematic and first Emeraude fly in 1965 with French Satellite, as Diamant A rocket.

It propellants, Turpentine oil and Nitric acid are non-hypergolic, it need Fantol to ignition
The Fantol was on bottom of turpentine tank do higher density
It enter engine first and react with Nitric acid hypergolic and ignite the Turpentine oil.

Understandable this give problems for stage separation but feasible, with Hot-Staging
If Emeraude start up engine in end phase of Blue Streak operation (like Russian Rockets)

But there are other issue
Emeraude mass is 14685 kg
Blue Streak Mk I can carry only 15609 kg as upper stage !

LRBA had to modify Emeraude, cut the rocket half in size, to size of Agena stage
Also Emeraude diameter of 140 cm was problematic for Payload and third stage.

So Coralie with 200 cm diameter and 11894 kg mass, using hypergolic UDMH and NTO
make more sense


Diamant B (stage L-17) use UDMH/NTO but flew first 1970
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Offline Michel Van

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[speculative mode ON]
End result, circa 1968: a Blue Streak with two boosters and an hydrolox stage 2. 
I did some calculations: performance would be close from an Atlas Centaur. 4 mt to LEO, 1 mt to escape velocity.
[speculative mode OFF]

In fact this was the last attempt on British side to save Blue Streak as launcher in 1970
A Blue Streak with two French L-17 as booster and as Upper stage a US Centaur from Convair

The Government show no interest whatsoever, and Blue Streak production was handed over to ELDO
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Offline Michel Van

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During 1972 France and Germany look into alternatives for Europa IIIB
consider to expensive and too complex  do hydrolox second stage with high pressure engine.

The German Ministry of sciences and Technology order studies
next infamous ORTAG was also M.A.N or Machinenfabrik Augstburg Nürnberg

There concept Europa III ME
using first stage of Europa III B with upper stage of Europa II rocket.

Note: L110 =liquid fuel  propellant in metric tons - P1,8 =Solid propellant in metric tons

Europa II E (ready for 1978)
is Europa II rocket were Blue streak is replace by L110 stage based on L150 from Europa III B proposal
200kg payload into GEO

Europa III ME (ready for 1979)
two L110 stage as Booster (give it a Titan IIIC look)
modified L110 with two Viking II vacuum engines second stage
stretch Coralie with 5 metric ton more fuel
P1.8 solid motor
750 kg into GEO
1400 kg with four L110 booster (ready for 1983)

From 1985 onwards M.A.N. wanted to use high energy upper stage*
this increase the Payload to
2000 kg into GTO with two booster
3000 kg into GTO with Four
 
* high energy upper stage means in 1972 either hydrolox, Fluorine/hydrogen , Nerva engine, Ion or arc jet.

In France were also Studies made for Alternative in CNES
a team around Roland Deschamps and Michel Bignier proposed:

Europa III de Substitution (E III S)
L150 from Europa IIIB program
L35 with Viking II vacuum engine
H6 with hydrolox using a french HM6 engine with four nozzle.
payload 1560 kg into GTO and 750 kg into GEO.

Then in 1973 the Europa rocket program died with ELDO/ESRO, replace by ESA.
France took over the ESA rocket program under CNES and they took E III S proposal.
modified it for better Performance  replace the HM6 by HM7 engine.
it got also new name proposed were VEGA, Phoenix but it became Ariane...

Ironic German M.A.N became main contractor for Ariane Program
   
Source:
Europa III ME Entwurf einer Wirtschaftliche Trägerrakete M.A.N. neue Technologie 1972.
PDF to find here
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/early-european-rocketry-projects.4130/post-586968

CNES Lanceur III S Dossier d' Synthese
link in french
http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_europeen/ariane/1970-78/1970_1975.htm
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Offline leovinus

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Seems the  university library of Darmstadt has allot ELDO paper and Literature
since i go to visit the City i will take a look into that library
Did you manage your visit yet?

Offline Michel Van

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Did you manage your visit yet?

yes i found the Aerospace section at Lichtwiese
and copy some stuff about P111 aka HDTW Engine by MBB

sadly it take long time before i can revisit Darmstadt
but i try to get access to Aachen university Aerospace library.
however this has restricted access and this under surveillance.

Too many books there went missing by irresponsible student...
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Offline leovinus

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Did you manage your visit yet?

yes i found the Aerospace section at Lichtwiese
and copy some stuff about P111 aka HDTW Engine by MBB

sadly it take long time before i can revisit Darmstadt
but i try to get access to Aachen university Aerospace library.
however this has restricted access and this under surveillance.

Too many books there went missing by irresponsible student...
Great to heat you managed your in-person Darmstadt visit. As you mention Aachen, I know they have an air-space section but I never connected that in my mind with history, ELDO and the Europa rocket. Anything in particular you are chasing?

Sidenote: Actually, I used to live in Aachen for many years. Still have friends there. I wondered whether you mean the library at the Eupener/Weisshausstrasse which would be where I worked in the past. Small world :)

Offline Michel Van

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Great to heat you managed your in-person Darmstadt visit. As you mention Aachen, I know they have an air-space section but I never connected that in my mind with history, ELDO and the Europa rocket. Anything in particular you are chasing?
The university of Darmstadt And Aachen are very active in German Spaceflight
Darmstadt was involved in P111 engine project
While Aachen was involved in Sanger 2 project with counter study to the Concept

i try to find more data on Europa rocket and obscure 1960s project to licence Thor Delta and build them in Germany.

Sidenote: Actually, I used to live in Aachen for many years. Still have friends there. I wondered whether you mean the library at the Eupener/Weisshausstrasse which would be where I worked in the past. Small world :)

The former Phillips research center ? not yet.
i dig true the decentralised library system of Aachen university
main issue: it seems the Aerospace library is dived between Aerospace and Jet/rocket engine research centers
and both have  restricted access...
 
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Offline leovinus

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Great to heat you managed your in-person Darmstadt visit. As you mention Aachen, I know they have an air-space section but I never connected that in my mind with history, ELDO and the Europa rocket. Anything in particular you are chasing?
The university of Darmstadt And Aachen are very active in German Spaceflight
Darmstadt was involved in P111 engine project
While Aachen was involved in Sanger 2 project with counter study to the Concept

Oh I see. The Sänger 2 project is something I also spent time to request documents from MBB and the Nationalbilbliothek in Berlin. It really deserves its own thread as it is also later in time. Created a new splinter  thread The German Sänger 2 space transportation system

Sidenote: Actually, I used to live in Aachen for many years. Still have friends there. I wondered whether you mean the library at the Eupener/Weisshausstrasse which would be where I worked in the past. Small world :)

The former Phillips research center ? not yet.
i dig true the decentralised library system of Aachen university
main issue: it seems the Aerospace library is dived between Aerospace and Jet/rocket engine research centers
and both have  restricted access...
Yep, Philips :) Can't make any promises but I am happy to try to help and get you access. The RWTH Aachen was certainly active with the hypersonic research and we can share documents in the other thread. Just PM for details.

Back to the early European programs :)

Offline TheKutKu

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Did you manage your visit yet?

yes i found the Aerospace section at Lichtwiese
and copy some stuff about P111 aka HDTW Engine by MBB



Damn! Did you find some interesting information about this fascinating engine?

Offline Michel Van

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and copy some stuff about P111 aka HDTW Engine by MBB


Damn! Did you find some interesting information about this fascinating engine?

Yes allot, publish first in Secret project forum, then here.
that engine was to far ahead of it time 
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Offline leovinus

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Did you manage your visit yet?

yes i found the Aerospace section at Lichtwiese
and copy some stuff about P111 aka HDTW Engine by MBB
Just wondering about designations here. "HDTW" probably means "Hochdruck Triebwerk". In an old conference article, I see a picture of a MBB 111 Topping Cycle  engine (LOX/RP1) but is that same one that you mean with "P111"? If yes then what does the "P" stand for?

Offline Michel Van

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P111 and HDTW are not quite the same

Projekt 111 started as Kerolox High pressure stage combustion engine under Bölkow-Entwicklung KG in 1957
1968  Bölkow-Entwicklung KG, Messerschmitt AG and Junkers fusion to Messerschmitt-Bölkow GmbH
1969  Messerschmitt-Bölkow GmbH fuse der Hamburger Flugzeugbau GmbH become MBB GmbH

it was P111 that got NASA attention for Shuttle Main Engine

HDTW = Hoch Druck TreibWerk is the Hydrolox version of P111 for EUROPA IIIB
The french gave it designation H20
Original one german HDTW hat to Power second stage or two french conventional rocket engines (HM06?)
HDTW was also proposed for EUROPA IIID (also E?) to power all stages

why was HDTM not taken ?
it was to ahead of it Time, to Radical for politician, ESA and NASA
« Last Edit: 07/14/2024 01:59 pm by Michel Van »
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