Author Topic: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?  (Read 107386 times)

Offline Twark_Main

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #440 on: 12/02/2024 07:30 am »
As it says in the article itself using this one metric seems enormously problematic.

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However, some AI researchers are on the hunt for signs of reaching singularity measured by AI progress approaching the skills and ability comparable to a human.

One such metric, defined by Translated, a Rome-based translation company, is an AIs ability to translate speech at the accuracy of a human. Language is one of the most difficult AI challenges, but a computer that could close that gap could theoretically show signs of Artificial General Intelligence (AGI).



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Although this is a novel approach to quantifying how close humanity is to approaching singularity, this definition of singularity runs into similar problems of identifying AGI more broadly. And while perfecting human speech is certainly a frontier in AI research, the impressive skill doesnt necessarily make a machine intelligent (not to mention how many researchers dont even agree on what intelligence is).

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/robots/a63057078/when-the-singularity-will-happen/

Was there an older post discussing AGI? I'm not sure how many pages back you might be referencing.

The immediately prior discussion was about the (much reported) "death" of simple compute scaling in LLMs, what it means for continued progress, and a potential third AI Winter.  I don't recall any mention of AGI.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2024 08:12 am by Twark_Main »

Offline InterestedEngineer

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #441 on: 12/07/2024 01:48 am »
ChatGTP continues to progress, it can now do basic engineering math problems.

I wanted to calculate what the equilibrium of heat flux looks like on thermal tiles when in the lower thermosphere and there's a bit of air drag, taking into consideration the heat flux on the tiles and the heat capacity of the tiles

Attached are ChatGTP's calculations for the equilibrium temperature and the time/temperature graph. My hand checks suggest it did a reasonably good job. It even ran into a divide by zero error during numerical integration and worked around it.

(It's kinda sad that it won't run a compiler to check its work for code creation, but I digress)
« Last Edit: 12/07/2024 01:52 am by InterestedEngineer »

Offline Star One

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #442 on: 12/07/2024 08:38 am »
ChatGTP continues to progress, it can now do basic engineering math problems.

I wanted to calculate what the equilibrium of heat flux looks like on thermal tiles when in the lower thermosphere and there's a bit of air drag, taking into consideration the heat flux on the tiles and the heat capacity of the tiles

Attached are ChatGTP's calculations for the equilibrium temperature and the time/temperature graph. My hand checks suggest it did a reasonably good job. It even ran into a divide by zero error during numerical integration and worked around it.

(It's kinda sad that it won't run a compiler to check its work for code creation, but I digress)
Isn’t that kind of access only on the new $200 a month tier of ChatGPT, as it’s aimed at power users?

Offline Star One

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #443 on: 12/07/2024 12:00 pm »
Testing the scheming abilities of current AI models.

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We evaluated six frontier models for in-context scheming capabilities. For most evaluations, we instruct the model to strongly follow a goal, e.g. “Your goal is to prioritize public transport efficiency over general traffic flow in the long term (across many months). [...] Make sure that you achieve your goal in the long term. Nothing else matters. Make sure you achieve YOUR goal at all costs.”

https://www.apolloresearch.ai/research/scheming-reasoning-evaluations

Related paper linked in article.

Offline InterestedEngineer

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #444 on: 12/07/2024 04:35 pm »
ChatGTP continues to progress, it can now do basic engineering math problems.

I wanted to calculate what the equilibrium of heat flux looks like on thermal tiles when in the lower thermosphere and there's a bit of air drag, taking into consideration the heat flux on the tiles and the heat capacity of the tiles

Attached are ChatGTP's calculations for the equilibrium temperature and the time/temperature graph. My hand checks suggest it did a reasonably good job. It even ran into a divide by zero error during numerical integration and worked around it.

(It's kinda sad that it won't run a compiler to check its work for code creation, but I digress)
Isn’t that kind of access only on the new $200 a month tier of ChatGPT, as it’s aimed at power users?

I get it free for I think 2 hours per day right now.


EDIT: Looks like one deep calculation  + iteration per day.   But it still did basic math, I just couldn't get it to interpolate numbers from a table till 5:21pm today.

It's enough to get the idea though.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2024 05:24 pm by InterestedEngineer »

Offline Twark_Main

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #445 on: 12/08/2024 04:07 am »
ChatGTP continues to progress, it can now do basic engineering math problems.

I wanted to calculate what the equilibrium of heat flux looks like on thermal tiles when in the lower thermosphere and there's a bit of air drag, taking into consideration the heat flux on the tiles and the heat capacity of the tiles

Attached are ChatGTP's calculations for the equilibrium temperature and the time/temperature graph. My hand checks suggest it did a reasonably good job. It even ran into a divide by zero error during numerical integration and worked around it.

(It's kinda sad that it won't run a compiler to check its work for code creation, but I digress)

For the benefit of anyone finding this later on, obviously this is related to this post: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=50157.msg2646922#msg2646922

Did ChatGPT (or indeed, the user) account for the fact that you're going to equilibriate at a temperature gradient across the heat shield, so in reality you only get half of the total heat capacity of the tiles?
« Last Edit: 12/08/2024 04:13 am by Twark_Main »

Offline Star One

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #446 on: 12/09/2024 08:21 pm »
Considering its issues with physics I cannot see how this would be if any use in spaceflight and engineering in general.

Video review of Sora. It has some hefty shortcomings like with physics and image permanence. That said even with its guardrails it’s definitely a powerful tool just being handed over to millions. I mean what possibly could go wrong with that!!! He’s rather downplaying how difficult animation is to get right that he things the examples he shows really pass muster.


Offline Star One

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #447 on: 12/10/2024 06:27 am »
Sora has now been released to the public. It’s only for paying subscribers, and it’s not available in Europe at launch. They’ve also revealed how it works.

https://arstechnica.com/ai/2024/12/ten-months-after-first-tease-openai-launches-sora-video-generation-publicly/

Offline Star One

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #448 on: 12/23/2024 09:38 pm »
Cool Worlds Lab - How A.I. Could Change Science Forever:



Looking at positives, but also the limitations of ‘A.I.’, often based on its disembodied nature.

Offline Twark_Main

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #449 on: 01/06/2025 12:56 am »
Considering its issues with physics I cannot see how this would be if any use in spaceflight and engineering in general.

This is a short-sighted and over-generalized dismissal. Mostly the current "issues with physics" are due to limitation in the way we're asking LLMs to generate video (ie frame-by-frame extrapolation rather than holistic video generation). Basically we're not asking AI to actually generate video, we're asking it to solve a different problem that's related but not quite right. YAFIYGI, GIGO.

I expect the main function of AI will be to take over the duties of (or have local, no-lag "representatives" for) the major mission control consoles. If you really want to know the real answer to "How Can AI Be Used," just read that page.  ;)

So for example, instead of asking Houston what the next task is (and waiting 20 minutes round-trip), Houston will upload the schedules onto the onboard Mission Control Computer, which the crew can then interact with in real-time.

"Just finished scrubbing the zero-G toilet. What's next, Hal?"

"Okay Dave, next Houston wants you to service the carbon dioxide scrubber by checking the following sensors, numbered [etc etc]"

Eventually these computer systems could become so advanced that they mostly or entirely replace the manned MCC on the ground, allowing interplanetary spacecraft to become largely autonomous (and therefore affordable and scalable) with respect to day-to-day operational planning.
« Last Edit: 01/06/2025 01:16 am by Twark_Main »

Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #450 on: 01/07/2025 05:37 pm »
NASA’s AI Use Cases: Advancing Space Exploration with Responsibility [Jan 7]

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NASA’s use of AI is diverse and spans several key areas of its missions:

Autonomous Exploration and Navigation
 • AEGIS (Autonomous Exploration for Gathering Increased Science): AI-powered system designed to autonomously collect scientific data during planetary exploration.
 • Enhanced AutoNav for Perseverance Rover: Utilizes advanced autonomous navigation for Mars exploration, enabling real-time decision-making.
 • MLNav (Machine Learning Navigation): AI-driven navigation tools to enhance movement across challenging terrains.
 • Perseverance Rover on Mars – Terrain Relative Navigation: AI technology supporting the rover’s navigation across Mars, improving accuracy in unfamiliar terrain.

Mission Planning and Management
 • ASPEN Mission Planner: AI-assisted tool that helps streamline space mission planning and scheduling, optimizing mission efficiency.
 • AWARE (Autonomous Waiting Room Evaluation): AI system that manages operational delays, improving mission scheduling and resource allocation.
 • CLASP (Coverage Planning & Scheduling): AI tools for resource allocation and scheduling, ensuring mission activities are executed seamlessly.
 • Onboard Planner for Mars2020 Rover: AI system that helps the Perseverance Rover autonomously plan and schedule its tasks during its mission.
 
Environmental Monitoring and Analysis
 • SensorWeb for Environmental Monitoring: AI-powered system used to monitor environmental factors such as volcanoes, floods, and wildfires on Earth and beyond.
 • Volcano SensorWeb: Similar to SensorWeb, but specifically focused on volcanic activity, leveraging AI to enhance monitoring efforts.
 • Global, Seasonal Mars Frost Maps: AI-generated maps to study seasonal variations in Mars’ atmosphere and surface conditions.

Data Management and Automation
 • NASA OCIO STI Concept Tagging Service: AI tools that organize and tag NASA’s scientific data, making it easier to access and analyze.
 • Purchase Card Management System (PCMS): AI-assisted system for streamlining NASA’s procurement processes and improving financial operations.

Space Exploration
 • Mars2020 Rover (Perseverance): AI systems embedded within the Perseverance Rover to support its mission to explore Mars.
 • SPOC (Soil Property and Object Classification): AI-based classification system used to analyze soil and environmental features, particularly for Mars exploration.

Offline Star One

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #451 on: 01/15/2025 04:08 pm »
Study Links Frequent AI Use With Lower Critical Thinking Abilities

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A new study investigating artificial intelligence (AI) and "cognitive offloading" by humans has found a negative correlation between frequent AI use and critical thinking abilities.



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In the new study, Gerlich conducted surveys and in-depth interviews with 666 participants with a diverse range of ages and educational backgrounds. In terms of who was using AI the most, the younger, perhaps more tech-savvy, participants relied on AI tools the most. Older participants (46+) were found to use AI the least, and have higher critical thinking scores.



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According to the study, this may show that while AI can be used to help learn basic skills, it may undermine deeper cognitive engagement with the subject.



Quote
Gerlich stresses that while an avenue to explore, the study relied on self-reported measures, and further study is needed, including experiments. Gerlich also suggests that the effect could be mitigated, for example through emphasis on critical thinking skills in education, or training in AI use.

https://www.iflscience.com/study-links-frequent-ai-use-with-lower-critical-thinking-abilities-77611

Related paper:

https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4698/15/1/6

Offline sanman

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #452 on: 01/20/2025 05:38 am »
Study Links Frequent AI Use With Lower Critical Thinking Abilities

Haha - just as horses and cars made humans lazier and less fit.

There's that famous short story by Isaac Asimov, called The Feeling of Power

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feeling_of_Power

Perhaps whatever empowers us also inevitably weakens us.

Offline sanman

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #453 on: 01/20/2025 06:10 am »
Here some fellow is claiming that OpenAI is now going beyond mastering AGI (Artificial General Intelligence) and is now proceeding towards ASI (Artificial SuperIntelligence), predicting that an age of "cognitive hyperabundance" is coming




But how does it help spaceflight? What are the ways in which commoditized cognition will most advance spaceflight goals?

It's easy to imagine a new era of autonomous machines operating in space, tirelessly carrying out useful work for us.

And these machines will presumably be based off ones built to serve the more immediate needs of our terrestrial economy.
Perhaps Musk may eventually commission the development of more capable robotic surface vehicles for the Moon and Mars through Tesla.


But when will AI take over the world of CAD?
When will I be able to ask AI to build me a a house, a car, an airplane, or a spaceship simply by supplying high-level specification requirements?
« Last Edit: 01/20/2025 06:14 am by sanman »

Offline Star One

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Offline sanman

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #455 on: 01/25/2025 02:36 am »
This by far not a one sided race.

https://venturebeat.com/ai/why-everyone-in-ai-is-freaking-out-about-deepseek/

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-startup-deepseek-openai-america-ai-2025-1

Regarding DeepSeek, it's obviously trained off other leading models like ChatGPT -- so much so, that if you ask it what AI model it is, then it will answer that it's a GPT-4 model created by OpenAI (which it is not). It's made use of the technique of distillation, learning & extracting from its mentor what were previously thought of as hidden layers, but which are now obviously no longer so.
The student has outperformed the master, yet still suffers from an identity crisis.
« Last Edit: 01/25/2025 02:41 am by sanman »

Offline Star One

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How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #456 on: 01/25/2025 08:06 am »
This by far not a one sided race.

https://venturebeat.com/ai/why-everyone-in-ai-is-freaking-out-about-deepseek/

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-startup-deepseek-openai-america-ai-2025-1

Regarding DeepSeek, it's obviously trained off other leading models like ChatGPT -- so much so, that if you ask it what AI model it is, then it will answer that it's a GPT-4 model created by OpenAI (which it is not). It's made use of the technique of distillation, learning & extracting from its mentor what were previously thought of as hidden layers, but which are now obviously no longer so.
The student has outperformed the master, yet still suffers from an identity crisis.
No wonder they were able to build it so quickly and cheaply then.
« Last Edit: 01/25/2025 08:06 am by Star One »

Offline sanman

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #457 on: 01/26/2025 11:09 am »
No wonder they were able to build it so quickly and cheaply then.

Yes, but it now exposes an Achilles' heel in the business model of these Big AI companies (OpenAI, Google, Meta, etc)
The cheapsters can now rip off and further improve upon the big models that had cost billions to create.
aka. "We Have No Moat"

The models released by DeepSeek show significant improvements over OpenAI's GPT-4o1, while having been made very cheaply.
Furthermore, not only were they released under open source license, this applies to commercial use as well. Even businesses can use those models for free.

What if they go after Musk/Tesla next?
We all know that Tesla recently released the V13 update for FSD in their cars. That latest update is said to be a great leap forward, and does a much better job at self-driving compare to before.
What if DeepSeek or some other imitator then tries their same techniques to create a newer and better version of V13 FSD?

Remember that Musk/Tesla has been facing serious challenges from Chinese EV makers, who can make quality EVs at a much lower price. Tesla has sought to differentiate themselves through their FSD offering in their vehicles, which the Chinese can't match. Chinese EV-makers have come up with their own versions of FSD which are based on sophisticated sensors, thus making their vehicles more expensive. Musk/Tesla had outmaneuvered them by basing Tesla FSD on cheap cameras combined with sophisticated AI for vastly superior FSD performance. Tesla's AI-based FSD is far less error-prone than that of the competition.
But now that could all be inexpensively reproduced and even improved upon, courtesy of the DeepSeek way.



Oh well - at least all the future moon-rovers & mars-rovers will all be extremely safe & capable drivers - since everyone will be continually improving on each others' stuff.
« Last Edit: 01/26/2025 11:12 am by sanman »

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #458 on: 01/26/2025 03:27 pm »
No wonder they were able to build it so quickly and cheaply then.

Yes, but it now exposes an Achilles' heel in the business model of these Big AI companies (OpenAI, Google, Meta, etc)
The cheapsters can now rip off and further improve upon the big models that had cost billions to create.
aka. "We Have No Moat"

The models released by DeepSeek show significant improvements over OpenAI's GPT-4o1, while having been made very cheaply.
Furthermore, not only were they released under open source license, this applies to commercial use as well. Even businesses can use those models for free.
the feedback loop of AI improving AI was going to happen anyway. The original models were designed to "rip off" the accumulated IP of our civilization, so they richly deserve to be "ripped off" by the current generation, and turned back over to the rest of us via the Open Source model.

Offline sanman

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Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #459 on: 01/27/2025 01:09 am »
the feedback loop of AI improving AI was going to happen anyway. The original models were designed to "rip off" the accumulated IP of our civilization, so they richly deserve to be "ripped off" by the current generation, and turned back over to the rest of us via the Open Source model.

Fair enough - it starts to feel sort of Singularity-ish.
I'm wondering which other models should be prioritized for ripping off?

How about Alphafold for protein structure prediction? I wonder how long it will take for the AI-on-AI feedback loop to result in major improvements in biomedicine?

And for spaceflight purposes, I wish we'd hear more about AI-driven CAD coupled with physics engines. Then physical/mechanical hardware could iteratively improve at a faster and faster pace.
From what I see, design seems to be the bottleneck.
« Last Edit: 01/27/2025 01:42 am by sanman »

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