Author Topic: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites  (Read 106008 times)

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #300 on: 09/08/2024 05:14 pm »
https://x.com/foolsball/status/1832689456337367495

Q
@foolsball
Yesterday Fujian CV-18 crossed the Bohai Strait from the Yellow Sea to Bohai Bay for the next phase of sea trials, which may continue until the 25th. The Liaoning CV-16, which had been training in the Bohai Sea, has already returned to Qingdao base.





https://www.twz.com/sea/all-three-chinese-aircraft-carriers-were-at-sea-for-the-first-time



Update: France is going to build a bigger carrier, around the same size as China's newest one:

https://www.navylookout.com/in-focus-frances-future-aircraft-carrier/


« Last Edit: 11/04/2024 10:15 pm by Blackstar »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #301 on: 09/13/2024 03:06 am »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #302 on: 10/07/2024 05:32 pm »
Includes some satellite photos of carriers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/10/07/china-shipbuilding-navy-military/

China is rapidly building warships. Satellite images reveal the scale.
By Brady Africk
and
Mackenzie Eaglen
October 7, 2024 at 6:45 a.m. EDT

Mackenzie Eaglen is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Brady Africk is an open-source analyst and a senior media associate at AEI.

China has been investing so much in shipbuilding over the past 18 years that it can now build more ships in a month than the United States can in a year — and Beijing aims to keep widening its advantage. If the U.S. military does not soon catch up to this capacity, it risks finding itself off-guard and ill-equipped in a conflict scenario. China’s recent expansions should alarm American military planners and spur investments to bolster naval power.

Satellite imagery reveals the recent major expansions that have made China’s shipbuilding infrastructure the most robust in the world. Even the commercial vessels built alongside the warships in these yards are being constructed to military specifications, including the ability to carry troops and vehicles during conflict.





Update: https://www.twz.com/sea/chinas-monster-amphibious-assault-ship-has-twin-island-superstructures-optimized-for-aviation-ops
« Last Edit: 10/08/2024 05:14 pm by Blackstar »

Offline harrystranger

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #303 on: 10/08/2024 01:18 pm »
I stumbled across this interesting HEXAGON shot of two, maybe three (upper left), carriers at the Brooklyn Navy Yard on June 16, 1971. I haven't researched these but I'm sure you all will be faster than I am.

(Off topic but I grabbed this image to view the WTC while under construction as seen in the second image)

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #304 on: 10/08/2024 01:29 pm »
I stumbled across this interesting HEXAGON shot of two, maybe three (upper left), carriers at the Brooklyn Navy Yard on June 16, 1971. I haven't researched these but I'm sure you all will be faster than I am.


That's cool. Yes, there is a helicopter carrier in the dry-dock at upper left. The dry-dock is not big enough to hold the ship, so I suspect that this is an inactivated ship and maybe it is being stripped of equipment prior to scrapping.

The other two have straight edges at the front of their decks, no bridle catchers. That makes them both anti-submarine carriers. The "GO NAVY" on the deck is interesting and it is so sharp that I think it is painted there, not sailors in formation. I'm guessing that all these ships are inactivated now. Unfortunately, no numbers are visible on their flight decks, which makes it even more likely that they are no longer in service. Finding their identities may require a bit more work.



Update: I took a quick crack at it and for the two anti-sub carriers I came up with a short list:

USS Essex CVS-9
USS Intrepid CVS-11 Probably not Intrepid, because she was at sea for NATO maneuvers and in the Med.
USS Randolph CVS-15 Probably not Randolph because she was inactive at Philly Navy Yard.
USS Wasp CVS-18  Not Wasp. Deck log for June 16, 1971 indicates that she was steaming for Nova Scotia that day.
USS Kearsarge CVS-33 Probably not Kearsarge, because she may have been on the West Coast.

All of those ships were retired on the East Coast around that time.

For the helicopter carrier it could be USS Boxer LPH-4, but that's a bit of a WAG.

I'll have to dig some more to see if I can come up with anything better. If one of those ships was in service on that date and there is a scanned deck log entry and if it was at that location, it might also list the other ships present.


https://www.archives.gov/research/military/logbooks/navy-online


Update to the update: I've really struck out. Can only find the deck log for Wasp. Many of the other ships listed above were probably not the ones at the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Gotta go back to the drawing board.




Update: The helicopter carrier is almost certainly Boxer, which was scrapped at the Brooklyn Navy Yard. I'm leaning towards one of the carriers being Essex, which was eventually scrapped in New Jersey. That still leaves one more. Maybe Randolph? Have to keep checking.
« Last Edit: 10/10/2024 01:52 am by Blackstar »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #305 on: 10/09/2024 02:58 pm »
« Last Edit: 10/09/2024 11:28 pm by Blackstar »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #306 on: 10/12/2024 12:32 am »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #307 on: 10/14/2024 12:31 am »
USS Ronald Reagan at Puget Sound for an overhaul. Note the patrol boats on her deck. I guess they figured this was the easiest way to get them somewhere.

Online catdlr

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #308 on: 10/14/2024 12:41 am »
USS Ronald Reagan at Puget Sound for an overhaul. Note the patrol boats on her deck. I guess they figured this was the easiest way to get them somewhere.

So when they reach their assigned patrol location, those boats get launched into the water via the catapult?         (Just kidding).
It's Tony De La Rosa, ...I don't create this stuff, I just report it.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #309 on: 10/14/2024 01:30 am »
USS Ronald Reagan at Puget Sound for an overhaul. Note the patrol boats on her deck. I guess they figured this was the easiest way to get them somewhere.

So when they reach their assigned patrol location, those boats get launched into the water via the catapult?         (Just kidding).

Just roll them over the side, it's only a 60-foot drop.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #310 on: 10/15/2024 01:41 pm »
I've been trying to crack this one and not really getting anywhere. The helicopter carrier is Boxer, which was scrapped around that time at that location.

That leaves the other two carriers. I'm pretty sure that one of them is Essex. Maybe.

The problem is the other one. I've narrowed that down to Yorktown, Randolph, and Lexington. It probably was not Lexington, which was in active use at the time as a training carrier. I don't know where Lexington was based at this time, but later she was based out of Florida (there is a photo earlier in this thread), so my guess is she was in Florida.

Both Yorktown and Randolph were, according to Wikipedia, at the Philly Naval Yard in mothballs at this time. Several years later Yorktown was towed to South Carolina to become a museum ship. Randolph was scrapped in New Jersey. So if I had to guess, I would guess that the other ship is Randolph, and that maybe both Essex and Randolph were being stripped of militarily useful equipment prior to scrapping. Alas, even if I am right, it is not possible to know which ship is which. However, there does appear to be an extra structure behind the island for one of the ships, which may make it possible to identify it.

A few random notes:

-this is the first satellite image we have of Boxer and Essex. Others may exist, but this is the first to pop up.
-several of these ships were used for space recovery missions.
-Randolph showed up in the very first satellite image of an aircraft carrier. See below:

https://thespacereview.com/article/4828/1


Offline harrystranger

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #311 on: 10/17/2024 10:33 am »
Something that may (or may not) help identify these carriers in NY.

Firstly, a 'before' image. This is the latest I could find before the June 16, 1971 HEXAGON capture. A CORONA capture from March 11, 1970.

Second, an 'after' image. The next available (and cloud-free) capture after June 16, 1971. Taken on October 15, 1972. I also noticed carriers at what was Military Ocean Terminal at Bayonne.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #312 on: 10/17/2024 01:01 pm »
That may help. Some of these ships were scrapped at Kearny, New Jersey, which is near Bayonne (I don't know the exact relationship). The two ships in the last photo look like the two ships in the photo of Brooklyn Navy Yard. So they must have gone there after Brooklyn and were scrapped there.

One of the things this highlights is just how big the US Navy was into the early 1970s when a lot of WWII-era ships were withdrawn from service. The US Navy operated a lot of carriers, in a bunch of different roles. That became too expensive to continue, but new technology also eliminated some of the need for so many ships (not to mention that the WWII-era ships were old and could no longer support modern tech, like bigger jets).

Another thing this thread highlights is just how many big naval bases the United States used to have. They were all up and down the coasts. Many of them closed in the 1990s. I just read that the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show took place in what is the former Brooklyn Navy Yard.



Update: The last photo shows two carriers at Bayonne. One of these is the carrier from the earlier photo. You can see "NAVY" spelled out on the stern. But the other one is a different carrier. You can see the two bridle catchers sticking out like prongs at the bow. That was an attack carrier. So these photos show four different carriers, one of which was the USS Boxer.
« Last Edit: 10/17/2024 04:03 pm by Blackstar »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #313 on: 10/20/2024 01:23 am »
Well shiver me timbers and buy me a parrot--I didn't look very closely at the new images. But there's another carrier present, and its number is visible. That's CVS-10, USS Yorktown, which was later turned into a museum ship.

The other ones in the image remain a mystery. Possibly Essex, but Essex could also be the one over at the Brooklyn Navy Yard.

Offline JohnJ1

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #314 on: 10/22/2024 04:24 pm »
Showing up in synthetic aperture radar.

https://twitter.com/boxMica/status/1682441628047273998/photo/1



China Set to Launch Massive New Aircraft Carrier (F.K.A. Floating hotel casino) Almost as Big as US Navy’s USS Gerald Ford

The Fujian is 1,036 feet long with a displacement of 70,000 tons, and can carry up to 40 J-15 fighters. The Chinese navy is preparing to launch its third (SB: FOURTH)? aircraft carrier — its largest warship ever, which is nearly as long as the US Navy's USS Gerald R. Ford.4 hours ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-set-to-launch-massive-new-aircraft-carrier-almost-as-big-as-us-navy-s-uss-gerald-ford/ar-AA1gIA16?ocid=weather-verthp-feeds#:~:text=The%20Fujian%20is%201%2C036%20feet,to%2040%20J%2D15%20fighters&text=The%20Chinese%20navy%20is%20preparing,Navy's%20USS%20Gerald%20R.%20Ford.


Past PLA Floating hotel casinos

China launches third aircraft carrier in military advance
Fujian unveiled amid heightened tensions with US over self-ruled Taiwan
Agence France-Presse in Shanghai
Fri 17 Jun 2022 05.52 EDT

...the Fujian #3 is more technically advanced than the other Chinese carriers.
It is the “first catapult aircraft carrier wholly designed and built by China”, said the state broadcaster CCTV.

China has two other aircraft carriers in service. The Liaoning #1was commissioned in 2012, and the Shandong #2 entered service in 2019.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/17/china-launches-third-aircraft-carrier-military-advance-us-fujian-taiwan

The Long, Strange Trip of China’s First Aircraft Carrier
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/03/the-long-strange-trip-of-chinas-first-aircraft-carrier-liaoning/
...In a series of stories published in January, reporter Minnie Chan detailed how army basketball star-turned-business tycoon Xu Zengping purchased the Varyag from a shipyard in Ukraine —

Liaoning (Varyag) Aircraft Carrier – SinoDefence
https://sinodefence.com/liaoning-varyag-class/
China purchased the unfinished ex-Soviet Navy aircraft carrier Varyag from ... for US$20 million for conversion into a floating Casino and amusement park. It would be very cool to visit one of these casinos, because I love the atmosphere. I even searched https://kaszinoworld.com/legjobb-kifizetes-online-kaszinok/ for good bonuses to play with, and found quite a lot of them.

The inside story of the Liaoning: how Xu Zengping sealed deal for ...
www.scmp.com › News › China
South China Morning Post

Jan 19, 2015 - The Xu family: From basketball to the aircraft carrier business .... that they would turn the vessel into the world's largest floating hotel and casino.
It's crazy to think how what was once intended to be a "floating casino" is now part of China's growing military power. The Fujian being their most technically advanced carrier yet, especially with the catapult system, shows just how far they've come since the days of converting old Soviet carriers. Given the tensions in the region, especially around Taiwan, this latest carrier launch definitely feels like a statement.
« Last Edit: 10/23/2024 12:12 pm by JohnJ1 »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #315 on: 10/22/2024 05:18 pm »
It's crazy to think how what was once intended to be a "floating casino" is now part of China's growing military power. The Fujian being their most technically advanced carrier yet, especially with the catapult system, shows just how far they've come since the days of converting old Soviet carriers. Given the tensions in the region, especially around Taiwan, this latest carrier launch definitely feels like a statement.

I don't think it was ever intended to be a casino. That was a cover story. I think that what might be in doubt is if China ever intended to upgrade it and put it into service, as opposed to simply copying the design. But there are interesting parallels between what they did with their carriers and what they have done in their human spaceflight program: they looked at others, learned as much as they could, initially copied with minor upgrades, and then made substantial updates of their own, essentially producing all-new equipment.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #316 on: 10/26/2024 12:40 pm »
Well here is my morning mystery...

The Soviet Union's Kiev-class carrier Minsk, and the helicopter carrier Moskva, in Mykolaiv shipyard in Ukraine. (Note: Moskva was built in the 1960s, so this was refit work, not construction.)

The image at top was taken by a US HEXAGON satellite in September 1977 and posted by Harry here this summer (up-thread). The image below showed up on the Russian internet in June and I just saw it on Twitter. I don't know where it is from. I would assume that the Soviets took this photo from an airplane during construction, but this is also what a US reconnaissance satellite would see--the resolution is so high that it would have to be either a GAMBIT or KENNEN satellite, and those images have not been declassified. Alas, the picture does not include the nearby construction dock where the next ship in the class was being built.

I am interested in learning the provenance of the higher-res image.



Update: sea-level shot of the Novorossiysk after launching.
« Last Edit: 10/26/2024 04:10 pm by Blackstar »

Offline edzieba

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Re: Aircraft carriers and spy satellites
« Reply #317 on: 10/28/2024 12:17 pm »
The mystery image has enough parallax in the buildings to be visibly varying across the image - and it is parallax consistent with a single image frame capture rather than a swept optical bar (where parallax may vary in one axis but remain fixed in the orthogonal axis) - so the camera would have been pretty close with a short lens.

Offline Blackstar

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« Last Edit: 11/02/2024 02:24 pm by Blackstar »

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