KH-11 KENNEN

[NovaSilisko]

That's WorldView 3. The aperture is too small to be a KH-11.

Thanks. I had no idea.

If you're being sarcastic here (guessing yes!), I should point out there was a post asking if that was a KH-11 on the cover, which was subsequently deleted after the poster realized it was WorldView 3.

[Star One]

That's WorldView 3. The aperture is too small to be a KH-11.

Thanks. I had no idea.

Do I sense a bit of sarcasm   You're stunned they wouldn't display a current NRO bird on the cover of Av Leak?  Now I'm being sarcastic and no, I have not forgotten the image they printed widely reported to be a Lacrosse radar bird minus the antenna--the key element.

I am going to assume that's the same picture that is on the Wikipedia entry for it.

[gosnold]

That's WorldView 3. The aperture is too small to be a KH-11.

Thanks. I had no idea.

If you're being sarcastic here (guessing yes!), I should point out there was a post asking if that was a KH-11 on the cover, which was subsequently deleted after the poster realized it was WorldView 3.

Exactly. Thank you NovaSilisko.

On the subject of earth observation, a new venture has been announced: Omni Earth wants to launch 18 multispectral 2-5m resolution satellites with a budget of 250M$
http://omniearth.net/assets/omniearth_partnership.pdf

[Blackstar]

On the subject of earth observation, a new venture has been announced: Omni Earth wants to launch 18 multispectral 2-5m resolution satellites with a budget of 250M$
http://omniearth.net/assets/omniearth_partnership.pdf

These things seem to be proliferating. I expect that at some point, probably in a few years, the commercial remote sensing industry is going to contract. There seem to be too many companies with too many satellites chasing what is ultimately a rather limited demand.

[Star One]

On the subject of earth observation, a new venture has been announced: Omni Earth wants to launch 18 multispectral 2-5m resolution satellites with a budget of 250M$
http://omniearth.net/assets/omniearth_partnership.pdf

These things seem to be proliferating. I expect that at some point, probably in a few years, the commercial remote sensing industry is going to contract. There seem to be too many companies with too many satellites chasing what is ultimately a rather limited demand.

I would put good money on DigitalGlobe as being not one of the fallers, they seem too well established with a good customer base.

[Blackstar]

I would put good money on DigitalGlobe as being not one of the fallers, they seem too well established with a good customer base.

I agree. I was referring to the startups.

DG has U.S. intelligence and military contracts, in addition to global customers as well. And I think that ultimately, the U.S. intelligence community would not let them falter because they are too important. They have an insurance policy.

[Star One]

Could it be dead?

USA 186 (2005-042A), the secondary West plane KH-11, is still in a non sun-synchronous orbit and hence still drifting westwards. It is drifting for over half a year now. The difference in RAAN with USA 245, the primary West plane KH-11, is now over 20 degrees (21.8 degrees on May 19th). I am very curious as to when the drifting will stop, if ever. If it continues to drift for many weeks to come, we should contemplate whether perhaps the satellite is "dead", i.e. has lost manoeuverability. Problem is that NW European observers temporarily have lost visibility of the satellite, due to the current short nights. Tracking all comes down now to observers in the US and southern Europe.

http://sattrackcam.blogspot.co.uk

[kevin-rf]

Maybe it's playing Possum... Assuming fuel is not needed for de-satuation of the gyro's, it would be the perfect popup for catching things being hidden from the "active" KH-11's.

They do wrap them in tin foil, aka thermal blankets, don't they?

[4353]

In terms of RAAN difference with the primary West satellite (USA 245), USA 186's orbital plane has now drifted further from the latter than any earlier primary and secondary KH-11 plane separation. So what is the plan? Initially I thought they were aiming for a 10 degree separation, similar to what it was between USA 129 and USA 186 before USA 245 took over from USA 186 as the primary West plane sat. But they passed that point in February. I then contemplated they might aim for a 20 degree separation, similar to the separation between USA 224 and USA 161 in the East plane. But they have now passed that point too.

As the current orbit of USA 186, after the Nov 2013 manoeuvre that started the drift, is no longer sun-synchronous, it cannot be the intended operational orbit. It has to be either a temporary plane transfer orbit (but what is the goal then?), or....the bird has failed and is now drifting aimlessly away from the KH constellation.

[kevin-rf]

or....the bird has failed and is now drifting aimlessly away from the KH constellation.

or the propulsion has failed, but it is otherwise a still functional satellite.

[Star One]

or....the bird has failed and is now drifting aimlessly away from the KH constellation.

or the propulsion has failed, but it is otherwise a still functional satellite.

If this has happened could it become a hazard, after all they are not small objects?

[kevin-rf]

No more so than all the spent rocket stages that litter LEO.

If true, more interesting is drag will eventually bring it down. When that happens will the Hydrazine hazard excuse again be used to break it up in an energetic manor... A failed propulsion system does not always mean empty tanks.

[Blackstar]

No more so than all the spent rocket stages that litter LEO.

If true, more interesting is drag will eventually bring it down. When that happens will the Hydrazine hazard excuse again be used to break it up in an energetic manor... A failed propulsion system does not always mean empty tanks.

Although I don't think that the hydrazine was the sole reason that the U.S. shot down USA-193, the satellite was brand new and would have had a lot of hydrazine. The same is not true for a satellite that has been in orbit for nine years.

[kevin-rf]

a lot is relative...

If we assume this satellite had five more years of useful life left (USA-116 lasted 13 years, USA-129 18 years, USA-161 is now 15 years old) and most of the propellant (We are assuming hydrazine) is used for counteracting drag then 1/3 of the propellant should be left. That is not a small amount.

Didn't someone do a study that indicated the propellant loaded needed to counter act drag over the life of the satellite was quite large, only thing I can find right now is by Charles Vick of  7300 kg ( http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/kh-11-ssc-bus.htm ). 1/3 of that is 2400 kg. That means more Hydrazine is in it's tanks than USA-193 weighed at launch!

I don't see why they would not have just as many non hydrazine reasons as they did with USA-193.

But we are getting into the speculation side of things. It will be interesting to see how USA-186 evolves. I haven't noticed any reports on Seasat of it tumbling or flaring. Both can be expected if it was completely dead. Though a long tube like the stubby Hubble should over time end up in a gravity gradient stabilized orientation. So we might not see tumbling, but if it is dead Jim, definitely flaring that can be modeled off of the solar panels.

[4353]

Problem is that operational KH-11's regularly flare anyway. It is not a-typical to see one flare to negative magnitudes once or twice during one pass.

[Targeteer]

Just saw USA-186 on track and on time based on 17 May amateur observation TLEs on Heavens Above.com.  It was really moving--distance/altitude was 271 km--, flared brilliantly right after passing Mars, vanished into twilight at zenith, and apparently still hasn't maneuvered...

[Targeteer]

USA-161 is still soldiering on and has been recovered by the amateur observer network after being lost for 290 days.  A slightly different/updated TLE is uploaded to Heavens Above.com for those who want to take a look

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/May-2014/0153.html

Leo kindly shared the images of the objects he could not identify. As there were slight inaccuracies in his measurements I have remeasured them. The observations and identifications are below.

Leo's third unknown seems to match USA 161 [26934/01044A], last seen 290 days ago.

Propagating the old elements forward and fitting the data allowing for changes in mean anomaly and RA of the ascending node yields this orbit:
1 26934U 01044A   14144.63398148  .00000000  00000-0  00000-0 0    02
2 26934  97.0335 276.7823 0001902 124.8490  48.3766 15.68826283    01
# 20140524.04-20140524.04, 7 measurements, 0.091 deg rms

Fitting a circular orbit instead yields a much better fit but with a lower mean motion:
1 26934U 01044A   14144.03928469  .00000000  00000-0  50000-4 0    00
2 26934  96.9795 276.4708 0000000   0.0000  56.9491 15.60921888    07
# 20140524.04-20140524.04, 7 measurements, 0.006 deg rms

It may be worthwhile to search for USA 161 using both orbits.

Regards,
    Cees

[Targeteer]

Just saw USA-186 on track and on time based on 17 May amateur observation TLEs on Heavens Above.com.  It was really moving--distance/altitude was 271 km--, flared brilliantly right after passing Mars, vanished into twilight at zenith, and apparently still hasn't maneuvered...

Still on track and on time tonight with a minor flaring at zenith.

[Targeteer]

USA-186 still showing on time so no maneuver yet and got a glance of USA-245 as it flared spectacularly just before disappearing over the horizon.  If I hadn't known better, I would have thought it was burning up on reentry.  It really was that bright 

[Star One]

USA-186 still showing on time so no maneuver yet and got a glance of USA-245 as it flared spectacularly just before disappearing over the horizon.  If I hadn't known better, I would have thought it was burning up on reentry.  It really was that bright 

What's your opinion on 186, has it lost manoeuvring control?