R-7 missile launches

[jcm]

Oh, and I note that in Varlomeev's  more recent article - NK Jul 2007 No 7 p 70 - he lists the Jan 1960 flights as if they were regular 8K74 flights.
That's why I am worried...

My feeling is that Varfolomeyev misinterpreted the July 1958 and January 1960 launches. No documents surfaced in 15 years since his Spaceflight publications that would confirm the statements of some special tests with dummy stages.

Having said that, I must add that many and many Timothy's revelations of 1994-1999 may be true while these are not confirmed up to now. For example, we have the 'official' Samara book now -- Samarskiye Stupeni Semyorki. It has multiple errors, it has some interesting documents -- on 11A57 for example -- but you would not see in it such things as 8K72 with Block Zh, 8K711, 11A55 and 11A56, 11A58 etc. first described by Varfolomeyev 15 years ago.

Yes, I think Timothy's articles are still a wonderful resource, but like any historian's work must be understood as  a best attempt for its time.
I agree we must now conclude that at least the Jan 1960 'dummy stage' reports were wrong and probably also the Jul 1958 one. For Jan 1960, he many have been influenced by the contemporary Western reports which listed these as upper stage tests (based I think on the TASS reports). For Jul 1958, I could perhaps believe that an "8K71/III" packet was used to test some plumbing/electronics for the upper stage even if no dummy upper stage was included - just an idea though, I have no evidence for that.
 So, no suborbital dummy upper stage launches, let's delete the dummy upper stages from our databases.

  Although I can't help feeling that Korolev SHOULD have carried out such test launches! :-)

  Jonathan

[jcm]

example, we have the 'official' Samara book now -- Samarskiye Stupeni Semyorki.

Do you have any online links to somewhere to order this book?

[Art LeBrun]

My recollection of the press reports of the January 1960 tests was that they were for a long range rocket (implying ICBM testing) coming from TASS. Always learning..........

[jcm]

My recollection of the press reports of the January 1960 tests was that they were for a long range rocket (implying ICBM testing) coming from TASS. Always learning..........

"Flight" on 29 Jan 1960, page 138
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1960/1960%20-%200138.html
quotes Tass as saying "A ballistic multi-stage rocket was launched in the Soviet Union to the Pacific on January 20... under the programme of producing a more powerful ballistic multi-stage rocket for orbiting heavy Earth satellites and for realizing spaceflight towards the planets of the solar system".  Ken Gatland's article in Flight on 14 Nov 1963 discussing what we now know to have been the R-16 long range tests in 1962-63 quotes Tass
as referring to 'dummies of penultimate stages of the carrier rockets'.
Somewhere there's a similar statement about the 1960 tests but I can't find it...

[jcm]

Continuing discussion of statistics of R-7 based launches: there are 7 failures for which I don't know the reason - have Russian sources revealed anything now?


04.07.1973 Zenit-4M
22.02.1977 Zenit-4MK
10.08.1977 Zenit-4MKM
28.03.1981 Yantar -2K
12.06.1982 Unknown, possibly Kobalt
26.03.1986 Unknown, possibly Oblik
09.07.1988 Unknown, possibly Yantar-4KS1

[Art LeBrun]

Thanks, JCM. Your sources take precedence over mine.

[Stan Black]

Configuration	Year of issue	Start date	Serial number	Semyorka packet	Blok-I engine	Blok-L	Fairing	Payload	Orbital name
			…
8К78	1960	10-10-1960	Л1-4М	8К74	8Д715К	Л	7135	1М
8К78	1960	14-10-1960	Л1-5М	8К74	8Д715К	Л	7135	1М
8К78	1960	12-02-1961	Л1-6В	8К74	8Д715К	Л	7135	1ВА	Венера-1
8К78	1960	04-02-1961	Л1-7В	8К74	8Д715К	Л	7135	1ВА
			…
8К78	1962	04-01-1963	Т10309	8К74	8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6
8К78	1963	03-02-1963	Г10310	8К74	8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6
8К78	1963	02-04-1963	Г10311	8К74	8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6	Луна-4
8К78	1962	25-08-1962	Т10312	8К74	8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	2МВ-1
8К78	1962	01-09-1962	Т10313	8К74	8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	2МВ-1
8К78	1962	12-09-1962	Т10314	8К74	8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	2МВ-2
8К78	1962	24-10-1962	Т10315	8К74	8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	2МВ-4
8К78	1962	01-11-1962	Т10316	8К74	8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	2МВ-4	Марс-1
8К78	1962	04-11-1962	Т10317	8К74	8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	2МВ-3
8К78М	1963	11-11-1963	Г10318	11А57	8Д715П	Л	2300+7135	3МВ-1А	Космос-21
8К78М	1962	19-02-1964	Т15000-19	11А57	8Д715П	Л	2300+7135	3МВ-1А
8К78М	1962	21-03-1964	Т15000-20	11А57	8Д715П	Л	2300+7135	Е-6
8К78М	1962	20-04-1964	T15000-21	11А57	8Д715П	Л	2300+7135	Е-6
8К78М	1962	27-03-1964	T15000-22	11А57	8Д715П	Л	2300+7135	3МВ-1	Космос-27
8К78М	1962	02-04-1964	T15000-23	11А57	8Д715П	Л	2300+7135	3МВ-1	Зонд-1
			…
8К78	1964	12-03-1965	Р10325		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6	Космос-60
8К78	1964	10-04-1965	Р10326		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6
8К78	1965	04-10-1965	У10327		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6	Луна-7
8К78	1965	03-12-1965	У10328		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6	Луна-8
			…
8К78	1965	09-05-1965	У10330		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6	Луна-5
8К78	1965	08-06-1965	У10331		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6	Луна-6
8К78	1965	31-01-1966	У10332		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6М	Луна-9
			…
8К78	1964	04-06-1964	Р10334		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	11Ф67	Молния
8К78	1965	23-04-1965	У10335		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	11Ф67	Молния
8К78	1964	22-08-1964	Р10336		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	11Ф67	Молния
8К78	1965	14-10-1965	У10337		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	11Ф67	Молния
8К78	1966	27-03-1966	Н10338		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	11Ф67	Молния
8К78	1966	25-04-1966	Н10339		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	11Ф67	Молния
8К78	1966	20-10-1966	Н10340		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	11Ф67	Молния
8К78	1966	01-03-1966	Н10341		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6С	Космос-111
8К78	1966	31-03-1966	Н10342		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6С	Луна-10
8К78	1966	24-08-1966	Н10343		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6ЛФ	Луна-11
8К78	1966	22-10-1966	Н10344		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6ЛФ	Луна-12
8К78	1966	21-12-1966	Н10345		8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	Е-6М	Луна-13
			…
8К78		16-11-1965			8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	3МВ-3	Венера-3
8К78		23-11-1965			8Д715К	Л	2300+7135	3МВ-4	Космос-96
			…
8К78М	1967	17-05-1967	Я71656	11А511	11Д55	Л	7810	Е-6ЛС	Космос-159
8К78М	1967	07-02-1968	Я71657	11А511	11Д55	Л	7810	Е-6ЛС
8К78М	1967	07-04-1968	Я71658	11А511	11Д55	Л	7810	Е-6ЛС	Луна-14
			…
8К78М		05-01-1969				ВЛ	7810	2В	Венера-5
8К78М		10-01-1969				ВЛ	7810	2В	Венера-6
8К78М		17-08-1970			8Д715К	НВЛ	7810	3В	Венера-7
8К78М		22-08-1970			8Д715К	НВЛ	7810	3В	Космос-359

http://www.kosmonavtika.com/lanceurs/soyouz/liste/8K78M.html
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=304
http://www.astronaut.ru/luna/ussr_a2.htm
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3727&start=60
http://www.kbkha.ru/?p=8&cat=8&prod=37
http://www.kbkha.ru/?p=103
http://www.laspace.ru/rus/archive.php
Soviet Rocketry That Conquered Space

[Stan Black]

 The U2 numbers go up to 76. There is little difference between the U and U2. Two flew as just U, also one was being prepared for Soyuz TM-23. The noticeable difference is some extra insulation around the 1st stage engines.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17286.msg698433#msg698433

[Stan Black]

 One issue with Mr. Varfolomeyev’s R-7 article part 6, is that it states the 8K78M adopted the 11S59 Semyorka packet from the 11A511 Soyuz in 1966-1967. Now according to Mr. Vovan over at the N.K. forum, the Soyuz-U introduced a Semyorka packet with a shorter instrument section; and that was the 11S59.
 It sounds that the Molniya started with an 8K74 R-7A derivative with blok-I powered by RD-0107, then progressed to 11A57 with RD-0108, before returning to RD-0107 and from February 1968 featured 11A511 with RD-0110. But it does not look like it progressed to an 11S59 equivalent with the shorter instrument section.

http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3727&start=60
http://spacemodels.nuxit.net/Soyuz/soyuz-blueprint.jpg
http://www.walkinspace.ru/photo/23-0-1745
http://rutube.ru/tracks/3634127.html?v=f4e34760f30dca144531d0676fdf2c26
http://www.samspace.ru/WEB/213.htm

[jcm]

 One issue with Mr. Varfolomeyev’s R-7 article part 6, is that it states the 8K78M adopted the 11S59 Semyorka packet from the 11A511 Soyuz in 1966-1967. Now according to Mr. Vovan over at the N.K. forum, the Soyuz-U introduced a Semyorka packet with a shorter instrument section; and that was the 11S59.
 It sounds that the Molniya started with an 8K74 R-7A derivative with blok-I powered by RD-0107, then progressed to 11A57 with RD-0108, before returning to RD-0107 and from February 1968 featured 11A511 with RD-0110. But it does not look like it progressed to an 11S59 equivalent with the shorter instrument section.
 
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3727&start=60
http://spacemodels.nuxit.net/Soyuz/soyuz-blueprint.jpg
http://www.walkinspace.ru/photo/23-0-1745
http://rutube.ru/tracks/3634127.html?v=f4e34760f30dca144531d0676fdf2c26
http://www.samspace.ru/WEB/213.htm

I thought the shorter instrument section was the difference between the 11A511 and the 11A511U? NK forum is broken for me at the moment...
But yes, the 8K78 tangle gets worse the more I look at it..

[Stan Black]

One issue with Mr. Varfolomeyev’s R-7 article part 6, is that it states the 8K78M adopted the 11S59 Semyorka packet from the 11A511 Soyuz in 1966-1967. Now according to Mr. Vovan over at the N.K. forum, the Soyuz-U introduced a Semyorka packet with a shorter instrument section; and that was the 11S59.
 It sounds that the Molniya started with an 8K74 R-7A derivative with blok-I powered by RD-0107, then progressed to 11A57 with RD-0108, before returning to RD-0107 and from February 1968 featured 11A511 with RD-0110. But it does not look like it progressed to an 11S59 equivalent with the shorter instrument section.
 
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3727&start=60
http://spacemodels.nuxit.net/Soyuz/soyuz-blueprint.jpg
http://www.walkinspace.ru/photo/23-0-1745
http://rutube.ru/tracks/3634127.html?v=f4e34760f30dca144531d0676fdf2c26
http://www.samspace.ru/WEB/213.htm

I thought the shorter instrument section was the difference between the 11A511 and the 11A511U? NK forum is broken for me at the moment...
But yes, the 8K78 tangle gets worse the more I look at it..

 I think Mr. Varfolomeyev got it slightly incorrect? Molniya and maybe Voskhod both adopted the 11A511 packet, but the 11S59 is the shorter one for Soyuz-U.

Well, we’ll just have to keep waiting for part 14…
http://www.cosmopark.ru/r7/prig10.htm

[Stan Black]

 One issue with Mr. Varfolomeyev’s R-7 article part 6, is that it states the 8K78M adopted the 11S59 Semyorka packet from the 11A511 Soyuz in 1966-1967. Now according to Mr. Vovan over at the N.K. forum, the Soyuz-U introduced a Semyorka packet with a shorter instrument section; and that was the 11S59.
 It sounds that the Molniya started with an 8K74 R-7A derivative with blok-I powered by RD-0107, then progressed to 11A57 with RD-0108, before returning to RD-0107 and from February 1968 featured 11A511 with RD-0110. But it does not look like it progressed to an 11S59 equivalent with the shorter instrument section.
 
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3727&start=60
http://spacemodels.nuxit.net/Soyuz/soyuz-blueprint.jpg
http://www.walkinspace.ru/photo/23-0-1745
http://rutube.ru/tracks/3634127.html?v=f4e34760f30dca144531d0676fdf2c26
http://www.samspace.ru/WEB/213.htm

I thought the shorter instrument section was the difference between the 11A511 and the 11A511U? NK forum is broken for me at the moment...
But yes, the 8K78 tangle gets worse the more I look at it..

 I think Mr. Varfolomeyev got it slightly incorrect? Molniya and maybe Voskhod both adopted the 11A511 packet, but the 11S59 is the shorter one for Soyuz-U.

Well, we’ll just have to keep waiting for part 14…
http://www.cosmopark.ru/r7/prig10.htm

 Looks like one part of an 11A511 Soyuz was an 11S54; but I don’t know what part.

[Liss]

8K78 is a big problem of course.
A part of it is that Varfolomeyev's list of production numbers is questionable. In fact there exist four or five different versions of the list, all incomplete and incompatible. There are vehicles with up to three numbers in different sources. For example, the 11 Nov 1963 vehicle is said to be G103-18, or G15000-06, or G15000-17. The 27 Mar 1966 vehicle is known as U15000-40, N103-36 and N103-38 etc.

[B. Hendrickx]

According to the Plesetsk history "Severnyy kosmodrom Rossii" (vol. 1) two more R-7A "training/combat launches" (UBP) were originally planned for September 1969 from Plesetsk pad nr. 3 as part of an unspecified operation called "Berkut", but they were cancelled for reasons that are not given. This is rather strange, because according to the same source pads 1, 3 and 4 were officially removed from combat duty on 20 July 1968. BTW, does anyone know the dates when the two Baikonur R-7A pads were officially removed from combat duty?

Note that a considerable number of R-7(A) launches from Baikonur in the early 1960s were performed by or with the help of Plesetsk launch teams in order to give them the necessary experience with combat launch operations. The ones identified in the book are :
30 July 1959, 21 November 1959, 4 June 1960, 27 February 1961, 4/5 July 1961, 2 July 1962, 22 April 1963, 18 May 1963, 27 July 1964.

The Plesetsk history gives the launch times for the 4/5 July shots as 9 a.m. (4 July) and 1.30 a.m. (5 July). Not clear whether that is Baikonur or Moscow time, but in either case the second one took place on 4 July GMT. 

[Stan Black]

Details of 8К710 version of the R-7 missile
http://www.ser-sarajkin.narod2.ru/ALL_OUT/TiVOut10/BRR7/BRR7012.htm
http://frs-vetlana.livejournal.com/222305.html

[Danderman]

http://frs-vetlana.livejournal.com/222305.html

This links to a nice photo essay on the Bauman Laboratory at Orevo.

[Nicolas PILLET]

In is translation of Chertok's memoirs, Volume 2, page 449, Asif Siddiqi mentions an R-7 launch on 31st September 1959, with serial number IZ-30.

Someone has a confirmation of this launch ? I found no other sources about that ?

[asdert]

September has only 30 days. Maybe another month?

[Stan Black]

In is translation of Chertok's memoirs, Volume 2, page 449, Asif Siddiqi mentions an R-7 launch on 31st September 1959, with serial number IZ-30.

Someone has a confirmation of this launch ? I found no other sources about that ?

Is is probably a number instead of the Z, И3-30

[RanulfC]

September has only 30 days. Maybe another month?

Hey, if Moscow says you're launching on the 31st of September, you better dang well launch on the 31st of September!

Randy