Author Topic: R-7 missile launches  (Read 30685 times)

Offline Satori

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #40 on: 10/16/2014 06:23 pm »
In is translation of Chertok's memoirs, Volume 2, page 449, Asif Siddiqi mentions an R-7 launch on 31st September 1959, with serial number IZ-30.

Someone has a confirmation of this launch ? I found no other sources about that ?

I have no registry of a R-7 IZ-30 serial number being launched.

Offline gwiz

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #41 on: 10/16/2014 07:03 pm »
I3-30, if correct, would be a payload serial number.

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #42 on: 10/16/2014 07:14 pm »
In is translation of Chertok's memoirs, Volume 2, page 449, Asif Siddiqi mentions an R-7 launch on 31st September 1959, with serial number IZ-30.

Someone has a confirmation of this launch ? I found no other sources about that ?

I have no registry of a R-7 IZ-30 serial number being launched.

Neither do I !

And yes, Asif wrote 31st September ! :-) I had not detected the mistake !
Nicolas PILLET
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Offline Stan Black

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #43 on: 10/16/2014 09:03 pm »
I3-30, if correct, would be a payload serial number.

What makes you say it is the payload, as opposed to the missile?
« Last Edit: 10/16/2014 09:04 pm by Stan Black »

Offline gwiz

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #44 on: 10/17/2014 01:00 pm »
JCM's table at the start of this thread, which I seem to have misinterpreted.  Sorry.
« Last Edit: 10/17/2014 01:05 pm by gwiz »

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #45 on: 10/25/2014 12:40 pm »
Rocket 8K71 n°M1-6 made two launch attempts, and both were aborted after ignition.

First attempt : 11th June 1957
Second attempt : 12th March 1958

According to Ivkin's book, page 1035, the rocket has been converted to "School-rocket" after that second attempt.

But Chertok suggests that M1-6 has been refurbished and became И1-7А (Volume 2, page 453 of the English edition). This И1-7А failed again after ignition during the frist attempt to launch Luna-2, on 9th September 1959.

Someone has seen a confirmation of this (М1-6 = И1-7А) ?
« Last Edit: 10/25/2014 02:33 pm by Nicolas PILLET »
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Offline anik

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #46 on: 10/25/2014 01:50 pm »
Rocket n°M1-6 made two launch attempts, and both were aborted after ignition.

First attempt : 11th June 1957
Second attempt : 12th March 1958

There were three attempts on June 10-11, 1957. After that the rocket has been returned to factory and back to Baikonur. One attempt was made on March 12, 1958. And again the rocket has been returned to factory and converted to training rocket.
« Last Edit: 10/25/2014 02:15 pm by anik »

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #47 on: 10/25/2014 02:11 pm »
There were three attempts on June 10-11, 1958.

1957 ;)

And again the rocket has been returned to factory and converted to training rocket.

Yes, this is Ivkin's version. But Chertok wrote that it was converted to 8K72 n°И1-7А.
It would explain the strange numbering of И1-7А...
Nicolas PILLET
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Offline anik

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #48 on: 10/25/2014 02:21 pm »
It would explain the strange numbering of И1-7А...

И1-7А, И1-7Б, Л1-9А, Л1-13А, Л1-7Б... Too many strange numbers, are not they?

Offline Stan Black

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #49 on: 10/25/2014 02:24 pm »
…frist attempt to launch Luna-2, on 9th September 1958.
1959?

There has also been И1-7Б, Л1-9А and Л1-13А

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #50 on: 10/25/2014 02:34 pm »
И1-7А, И1-7Б, Л1-9А, Л1-13А, Л1-7Б... Too many strange numbers, are not they?

Yes, my theory does not explain all strange R-7 numbers ! :D


…frist attempt to launch Luna-2, on 9th September 1958.
1959?

Ooops ! Corrected ! I'm not better than anik :D
Nicolas PILLET
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Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #51 on: 10/25/2014 03:07 pm »
Quote from Chertok's book :

Quote
Королев по непонятной причине вдруг закричал на Пилюгина: "Ты разберись, что твои схемщики натворили!"

Воскресенский сразу нашел причину: "Это виновата машина номер шесть. Она в старом варианте уже снималась со старта. Ее не следовало допускать снова". Все так устали, что никто даже не улыбнулся.
Nicolas PILLET
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Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #52 on: 10/25/2014 06:29 pm »
Andrey, in Poroshkov's book (page 113), he writes that launch of 10th september 1958 was the third attempt of "rocket n°6". Since you speak Russian better than me, do you think that it could mean : M1-6 = Б1-4 ?
Nicolas PILLET
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Offline anik

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #53 on: 10/25/2014 07:41 pm »
Andrey, in Poroshkov's book (page 113), he writes that launch of 10th september 1958 was the third attempt of "rocket n°6". Since you speak Russian better than me, do you think that it could mean : M1-6 = Б1-4?

Maybe.

Offline WallE

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #54 on: 09/16/2024 03:20 pm »
I'd always assumed an 8K74 core was used for the manned Vostok flights but apparently they were all 8K71 cores, with the 8K72K being an 8K72 with mods to the core and strap-ons to man-rate them and an improved Blok E to fix problems with the original version. Also it seems interesting that the first couple of 8K78s were 8K74-based but the 1962-63 planetary probe shots reverted to an 8K71 core for some reason (perhaps there were spare 8K72Ks from the Vostok program so they just stuck 8D74K engines in them, put the Blok I on top, and flew them to get rid of them).

Someone in here said the 11A511U was different from the 11A511 only in the instrument packet but apparently there was more than just that, the 11A511U had "structural improvements" to the engines, perhaps changes to cut down on vibration or other issues.

it does seem Zenit/Yantar launches on 11A511/11A511U vehicles somehow had a bit worse reliability than those used in other programs, perhaps because they were flown by less experienced military crews or because the flew a relatively huge number of them so mistakes or quality control issues got past easier. In 1975 for example there were 59 launches of R-7 based vehicles (a good year for reliability, Soyuz 18-1 being the only failure) with 33 of those being Zenit/Yantar, thus 57% of the total, and 1978 was the first year where R-7 vehicles had a perfect launch score with no failures.

Also there was a Zenit launch on 9/1/72 that malfunctioned due to high frequency combustion instability in one Blok A vernier. The Soyuz program was delayed almost a year until the existing stock of R-7 vehicles could be modified to correct it. It's quite probable that the fixes could have been incorporated into the "structural improvements" to the 11A511U.
« Last Edit: 09/19/2024 12:27 am by WallE »

Online Alter Sachse

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #55 on: 09/16/2024 04:40 pm »
Andrey, in Poroshkov's book (page 113), he writes that launch of 10th september 1958 was the third attempt of "rocket n°6". Since you speak Russian better than me, do you think that it could mean : M1-6 = Б1-4 ?
It was 10th July 1958.
One day you're a hero  next day you're a clown  there's nothing that is in between
        Jeff Lynne - "21century man"

Offline WallE

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #56 on: 09/16/2024 08:25 pm »
I bow to the experts' ruling that the vehicle was not designated 8K78M
until the 1966 upgrade. But it does seem likely that the 8K78 (1964)
vehicle has different engines in lower and final stages and so is     
sufficiently different from the 8K78 (1960) that it's useful to track it
as a separate variant.

As of 1965, the R-7 family consisted of:

8A92: Vostok booster with the 8K74 rather than the 8K71 core and 8D74K engines
8A92M: Similiar to 8A92 but changes to launch Meteor satellites into sun-sync orbits where the Blok E adapter remained attached to the payload, and there were control system modifications for these specific missions. I assume that these switched to 8D75M engines after the 11A511 standardization.
8K78: 8D74K engines+RD-0107+redesigned Blok I
8K78M: 8D75M and Blok I with the RD-0110 engines
11A57: Voskhod booster with the 8D74K engines and RD-0107+improved Blok I

It would be safe to assume the 11A511 standardization was just taking the 8K78M hardware and applying it across the board as all the pieces such as the 8D75M first stage engines and the RD-0110 Blok I engine were there, with the exception of Voskhod boosters continuing to use the older, less power RD-0107 engine and older booster models such as 8K78s and 8A92s kept flying for a few years until they cleaned out the inventory.
« Last Edit: 09/19/2024 12:21 am by WallE »

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #57 on: 09/19/2024 01:16 pm »
while the 8K78M first flew in February '64

8K78M first flew on 04.10.1965 (Luna-7).
Nicolas PILLET
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Offline WallE

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #58 on: 09/19/2024 04:43 pm »
8K78M first flew on 04.10.1965 (Luna-7).

The Wikipedia page stated that the 8K78M first flew February '64 but I believe now that that was obviously in error so I've edited and fixed that. Luna 7 should have been the first flight of 8K78M.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R-7_launches_(1960%E2%80%931964)

https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_lau/molniya.htm

This and the Astronautix page affirm Luna 7 as the first 8K78M launch. I believe whoever put in the data on the Wikipedia list was using as a source the space.skyrocket.de list which has a number of 8K78s listed as Molniya (M) although I have no idea what that means or if it's a weird typo.
« Last Edit: 09/20/2024 03:29 am by WallE »

Offline WallE

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Re: R-7 missile launches
« Reply #59 on: 09/20/2024 04:24 pm »
That commonly circulated film clip showing a Soyuz booster's engines shutting down shortly after launch and falling and exploding next to the pad is often claimed to be the 5/15/82 Zenit launch but it's obviously the Resurs failure from '88 as the Zenit was a bit higher up and only the core stage shut down while the Resurs had a total propulsion system shutdown. The Zenit failure happened at 28 seconds so the pitch and roll program should have been underway by that point while the Resurs failure was at 20 seconds and you can see the booster in the video has not yet started the pitch and roll program when the engine shutdown occurs.

Scratch that part, I remembered that R-7 vehicles could not do a roll maneuver in flight until the modern day Soyuz 2, only pitch and the launch stand would just be rotated on a turntable for the desired azimuth.
« Last Edit: 09/23/2024 02:20 am by WallE »

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