Author Topic: CEV Mock Up revealed  (Read 22595 times)

Offline kraisee

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #40 on: 12/04/2005 06:29 am »
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Super George - 3/12/2005  7:27 PM

So do people think this mock-up will be what the module will be, or is there a chance this will change a slight amount?

I think that the Command Module of the CEV will appear externally pretty close to that mock-up.   I'm going to guess that we will see the sunken windows on the final craft, to give it a more distinct appearance, and not just looking like a tin can :)

The heat shield is anyone's guess at this point.   Andrews seem to think the shield needs a "buldge" in it to create an aerodynamic stabilization effect of some sorts, but I'm thinking there's a natural stabilisation effect caused by gravity as you start to slow down during re-entry anyway, and I wonder if a "bulge" on the shield might create hotter and colder areas on the shield.   Also, manufacturing a complex shape like that would be harder (thus more expensive) than a plain curved piece.

The insides of it  though - I'd happily bet that the final flight-ready craft we get is completely different to any of the mock-ups so far shown.

I think there will be some major changes over the course of the next few years as some current ideas are discarded altogether, and others are modifed to suit new understanding as the craft is developed.

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
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Online darkenfast

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #41 on: 12/04/2005 01:05 pm »
I think the Andrews mockup was totally conjectural on the inside.  It seemed to be more of a "see how many couches can fit" demonstrator than anything else (although interesting).  I think various systems will take up quite a bit more room than the Andrews model shows.   I've been playing around with various configurations, but most of them end up looking a lot like a big Apollo (normally 4 couches across, with two folding, more couches, if required, underneath in place of cargo boxes).

Does anyone remember the Mercury "landing bag"?  The whole heatshield dropped about 4 feet and there was an accordion shaped bag between it and the capsule body.  I like that approach because I think the CEV is going to have to be more careful about how many pieces it drops off on the way down, especially if it lands at Edwards.
Writer of Book and Lyrics for musicals "SCAR", "Cinderella!", and "Aladdin!". Retired Naval Security Group. "I think SCAR is a winner. Great score, [and] the writing is up there with the very best!"
-- Phil Henderson, Composer of the West End musical "The Far Pavilions".

Offline Dobbins

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #42 on: 12/04/2005 03:38 pm »
The JSC Mockup is going to be used to set the arrangement of interior components. They will be trying things out for a fit using foam core boxes at first. Until that is done any interior arrangements will remain nothing more than an educated guess.

I will however venture one guess about the way it will look on the inside. The area on the floor at the sides is where the slope will result in little "head room" is where equipment and storage will go. There will be bulkheads in front of this equipment and doors in the storage areas. This should result in an interior that has a smaller diameter at the floor level with bulkheads at a right angle to the floor and going up to meet the sloping bulkheads formed by the capsule shape at up to a meter from the floor.

John B. Dobbins

Online darkenfast

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #43 on: 12/04/2005 10:50 pm »
That's exactly how my doodles keep turning out.  And that's pretty much how the Apollo interior was.  I end up with a "room" about 3m wide (across the couches), and about 3.5m from the lower hatch sill to the face of the equipment racks in the lower bay.  VERY roomy, compared to Apollo.  In one configuration, I have couches straight across, with the Commander and Pilot on the outside and two removable couches in the middle.  When the two center couches are folded in flight, the interior is very open. The other configuration has the Commander and Pilot on the inside, but seperated by an aisleway (between the hatch and the lower bay.  Two more couches go outside of these, and more towards the left-right center-line.  In this version, the couches would probably not be removable.   Center-of-gravity is a consideration.  I'm trying to offset the weight of the couches with equipment as in Apollo.   The area under the couches is for cargo boxes and/or additional couches.  FYI, I've reserved room for a zero-g toilet to the right of the lower bay!

Regardless, it'll be fun to see how close I get to what NASA decides!
Writer of Book and Lyrics for musicals "SCAR", "Cinderella!", and "Aladdin!". Retired Naval Security Group. "I think SCAR is a winner. Great score, [and] the writing is up there with the very best!"
-- Phil Henderson, Composer of the West End musical "The Far Pavilions".

Offline Dana

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #44 on: 12/05/2005 12:11 am »
One thing I think they need to do at NASA is stop throwing around the acronyms when it comes to the vehicles. We know what a CEV or a SDLV is, but nobody else in the general public does. In the old days, the public would know what a Mercury, Gemini, or Apollo spacecraft was (what great, mythic names), or a Redstone, Atlas, Titan II, Saturn IB or Saturn V, or even Skylab. This is why the orbiters have names as well as OV designation.

"We're launching an STS mission with OV-104 today."

Oh...well...yipee-skip, good luck with that....

"We're launching Atlantis today."

Oohhh, the Space Shuttle! Cool!

I'm not sure even "Constellation" would pack the right wallop. (Makes me think of an aircraft carrier or the old Lockheed propliner.) It should be more like Ulysses, Hercules, etc. (I'm not up on my mythology, hel me out here. ;))

BTW somebody mentioned sending journalists, movie stars, filmmakers, etc. I think that's exactly the right idea. Everybody knows Tom Hanks loves space exploration; James Cameron has stated repeatedly that he's like to do a film in space....I'm sure the enthusiasm is there, but I have to wonder if the studios, agents, lawyers, and whatnot will balk at the thought of sticking Tom Hanks on top of a rocket. Remember when Lance Bass was trying to get a tourist flight to the ISS? What a double-edged sword: Sure, if it was successful, you would have introduced all of those young boy-band fans to spaceflight and generated great publicity and support, etc., but what if that happened to be the one Soyuz launch that finally experienced a major launch vehicle failure-How much support and publicity will you get (or want) from those fans after you've scattered little pieces of Lance Bass all over Kazakhstan? Losing Christa McAuliffe on a crew was a heart-punch enough, and at least John Glenn had once ridden a vehicle that was arguably even more dangerous....Does NASA really want to take the chance of blowing up Tom Hanks?

That said...I've got some journalism in my background-where do I sign up?:)

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Offline SRBseparama

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #45 on: 12/05/2005 12:41 am »
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Dana - 4/12/2005  7:11 PM

"We're launching an STS mission with OV-104 today."

Oh...well...yipee-skip, good luck with that....

"We're launching Atlantis today."

Oohhh, the Space Shuttle! Cool!


Totally agree. There needs to be some PR work to get this across to the public.

Offline gladiator1332

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #46 on: 12/05/2005 01:03 am »
I'm pretty sure things will have to change. It is the only way to get the public to connect with this new spacecraft.

One great example are the MER's. If we just called them MER-1 and MER-2 they would seem like machines. But when we talk of Spirit and Oppurtunity, it's like we are talking about two living, breathing, things.

With STS-107...we mourned the loss of the crew, but we also mourned the loss of a great ship. Now hopefully there will be no need to shed tears over a CEV, however, who really cares about CEV-1, CEV-2....we need names. People love naming things...NASA should be allowing people to write in suggestions for names for the Program, the launcher, and eventually names for the spacecraft. We can always call it the CEV, however, they need personal names much like the Shuttle. Though it is the STS, we have names for the spacecraft.

Offline Davros

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #47 on: 12/05/2005 01:15 am »
Please excuse my lack of knowledge, but will the CEVs be reusable?

I ask as if they are not, then you lose the alive factor the Orbiters have with the multiple missions and eventual respectful retirement.

We've seen here on this forum how the engineers note different personalities as they get older, such as Columbia always been a steady girl on the launch pads like the old lady she was and how Endeavour is a bit jumpy (whatever they meant by that).

You won't get that following of a named CEV if it's only going to be a one trip vehicle.

Offline nacnud

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #48 on: 12/05/2005 01:45 am »
The reuseablity of the CEV depends on whether it will be cheaper to refurbish them or throw them away, I don't think anyone has numbers on that untill the final vendor is chosen.

Offline Dogsbd

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #49 on: 12/05/2005 01:55 am »
And the reusability may change as the program goes forward, the first few launches maybe those craft are not reused at all and then later ones are used 3-4 times while even later craft, as more is learned about different systems etc., can be used 5-10 times or more. And then again a CEV used for a six month stay in lunar orbit may not be used again while one used for shorter lunar trips or to LEO only may be used multiple times. Only time will tell.


Offline realtime

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #50 on: 12/05/2005 02:56 am »
I agree that there should be names, not acronyms.  This is discussed at length on another thread:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=785&posts=50#M11355


Offline lmike

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #51 on: 12/05/2005 02:59 am »
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Dana - 4/12/2005  7:11 PM
...Does NASA really want to take the chance of blowing up Tom Hanks?

Well, without undue levity, Tom Hanks has a chance every day to get roasted in his Porsche (or whatever he drives) like, say... James Dean.  Heck, John Travolta (another space maniac I believe) 'drives' his own personal B747 to work, if I'm not mistaken.  James Cameron dives in a Mir batisphere to some thousand feet to film the Titanic remains... A Martyr for the spaceflight, or a note in a local DMV report?  Hmmm.... a choice ;)  This is the point I think -- you want to glorify spaceflight, yet make it seem a 'safe' routine, like say, driving a car out to the office in the morning... (me driving on Californian freeways every freakin day, here ;) )  Besides, what an advertisment!  Even Tom Hanks is not afraid to ride the CEV! ;)

Offline Super George

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #52 on: 12/05/2005 03:23 am »
Bruce Willis has said a few times that he's facinated by Shuttles since filming Armageddon. Send him up :)

Offline lmike

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #53 on: 12/05/2005 03:26 am »
I think as far as the PR goes, the mission, and the people, not the craft have to be emphasized.  The craft is just a transportation means.  Being routine and robust is its strength.  Don't underestimate the audience (the ones who care), they'll understand.  As has been mentioned in this thread, what they *do* on the Moon WILL capture the audience, if presented right.

Technically, I think the capsule will look the same as in the photos. Plus, minus some details.

Offline realtime

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RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #54 on: 12/05/2005 04:05 am »
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lmike - 4/12/2005  11:26 PM

I think as far as the PR goes, the mission, and the people, not the craft have to be emphasized.  The craft is just a transportation means.  Being routine and robust is its strength.  Don't underestimate the audience (the ones who care), they'll understand.  As has been mentioned in this thread, what they *do* on the Moon WILL capture the audience, if presented right.

Technically, I think the capsule will look the same as in the photos. Plus, minus some details.
They all need to be emphasized.  Craft, people, mission.  It's a total package.  Too bad the craft looks like something out of the '60s and the people are for the most part straight-laced and boring.  I think they'd manage to reduce even the wildest adventure to a hum-drum monotonic patter.  That's why you need the movie stars and journalists and artists.

As Yogi Berra might say, "Routine is not exciting."  The audience who cares is too small -- it needs to be expanded beyond the geek crowd here and the military, or it won't be funded.


Offline CuddlyRocket

RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #55 on: 12/05/2005 12:32 pm »
Quote
Davros - 5/12/2005  2:15 AM

Please excuse my lack of knowledge, but will the CEVs be reusable?

I ask as if they are not, then you lose the alive factor the Orbiters have with the multiple missions and eventual respectful retirement.

We've seen here on this forum how the engineers note different personalities as they get older, such as Columbia always been a steady girl on the launch pads like the old lady she was and how Endeavour is a bit jumpy (whatever they meant by that).

You won't get that following of a named CEV if it's only going to be a one trip vehicle.
"The Eagle has landed."

But only once.

Agreed, you cannot get a following for a particular craft if it is only used once. But, it doesn't stop a lot of the other resonances. I suspect the name (if it has one) of the first craft back on the Moon will go down in the history books. For an Earth-analogue - who remembers Hurricanes Andrew, Katrina and Rita? They could have called them 1992/1, 2005/11 and 2005/17, but names are easier to remember, and more meaningful as part of cultural memory.

Online Chris Bergin

RE: CEV Mock Up revealed
« Reply #56 on: 12/05/2005 12:37 pm »
Quote
Super George - 5/12/2005  4:23 AM

Bruce Willis has said a few times that he's facinated by Shuttles since filming Armageddon. Send him up :)

Was that before or after an Orbiter Tech told him off for even considering touching Atlantis' TPS during filming in an OPF ;) Oil on fingers does not mix with TPS.
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