LIVE: Congressional Hearings into Obama's NASA Budget FY2011 - Feb 24-25 Part 2

[Cog_in_the_machine]

Miles advocates commercial space because it has the potential to allow more people to go to space. He says we should be launching 500 people a month.

Can Miles O'Brien explain how this new plan will accomplish that?

1.  Adopt new plan

2.  ? ? ? ? ?

3.  500 people per month in orbit.

I think it was a metaphor.

[Chris Bergin]

Mike being asked about workforce. Tough question for an engineer!

"Notes about how they change contracts. Many of the workforce will have to go to other companies, to do what they need to do to support their familes.

Would people want to jump ship back to NASA? I don't think so, they have a feeling that they were burned, that NASA is unstable. A net loss of experience."

But he dealt with it!

[northanger]

Snyder talking about the net loss of talent.

[kraisee]

5 years of Orion was planned to be 10bn. I assumed a pretty moderate low cost development and operations budget for an HLV at another 10bn over 5 years. I think you can agree with me that this is a reasonable (while low) budget for an HLV over 5 years.

NASA derived, including Orion, yes, I'll agree.

Commercially derived identical system can be done cheaper still.

Ross.

[clb22]

Nelson talks about workforce. He hopes that in the workforce transition a specific plan is put in place so that the hard hit areas of Cx cancellation and Shuttle would have a softer landing.

Nelson seems very confident that Cx will be cancelled and Shuttle retired on plan this year.

Emphasis by Nelson again to a HLV program. I think that's what he will aim at, get the 3.1bn HLV R&D line-item into a full-blown HLV development program.

[Bill White]

Miles absolutely loves the Obama plan.

I wish I could refute his point in person!   Big difference between bringing lots of people to orbit for a joyride, and doing real space exploration.  The former is not a replacement for the latter.

I think that's the disconnect: for some it's a "joyride" & for others it's "space exploration". We need to realize that going to space is a human desire, however expressed. However, political, financial & other considerations limit that desire.

I fully support relaxing ITAR to help folks build LEO hotels to give Miles O'Brien a chance to experience space. NASA can and should encourage a private LEO taxi service to private LEO destinations.

However I am far less persuaded that NASA's primary mission should be to facilitate LEO tourism on the taxpayer's dime.

[marshallsplace]

Mike Snyder is telling as it is.

Once job positions go, the workers go - they don't have any luxury to wait for any job that may happen in an un-guaranteed future.

[northanger]

Snyder: The shuttle is the most capable vehicle we've ever had.

[clb22]

5 years of Orion was planned to be 10bn. I assumed a pretty moderate low cost development and operations budget for an HLV at another 10bn over 5 years. I think you can agree with me that this is a reasonable (while low) budget for an HLV over 5 years.

NASA derived, yes, I'll agree.

Commercially derived identical system can be done cheaper still.

Ross.

Agreed, they can be done cheaper, but I believe Mr. Gibson wasn't talking about that, he was talking about continuing Cx as it worked in the past with some sort of SD-HLV which he calls Rocket X as well as continue work on Orion.

[neilh]

Even at the best-case low-point of $3,000 per kg to LEO, even Space-X are not going to be launching you or me to LEO any time soon, Miles.

Musk has actually stated on a number of occasions that the goal of "$500 per pound ($1100/kg) or less is very achievable." And of course, going by the comments of many in this forum, goals are all-important.

[Chris Bergin]

Question about CxP, brilliantly turned around to be about shuttle by Mike:

"Even if we continued the POR, we are still looking at a significant mistake of shuting down the shuttle before we need to.

"We need redundant access, as soon as we stand down the fleet, we turn over to a monopoly with the Russians.

"The shuttle is the most capable vehicle we have, I challenge anyone who says it's unsafe. Clearly they do not know what we do to keep the fleet safe, day in day out.

"For the sake of the ISS, all that money we have spent, we can't just walk away from it. If you look at the ISS during RTF, we went to two crew, mainly maintainence. Today that station has five or six onboad. The HTV ATVs are in support of shuttle. If we take shuttle out of the loop, I don't know how everything is going to be fine.

"It does not make sense to retire shuttle, especially before commercial is online."

Amazing, want to get all of that comment on quote, was brilliant, the above is just some soundbytes.

[northanger]

Miles absolutely loves the Obama plan.

I wish I could refute his point in person!   Big difference between bringing lots of people to orbit for a joyride, and doing real space exploration.  The former is not a replacement for the latter.

I think that's the disconnect: for some it's a "joyride" & for others it's "space exploration". We need to realize that going to space is a human desire, however expressed. However, political, financial & other considerations limit that desire.

I fully support relaxing ITAR to help folks build LEO hotels to give Miles O'Brien a chance to experience space. NASA can and should encourage a private LEO taxi service to private LEO destinations.

However I am far less persuaded that NASA's primary mission should be to facilitate LEO tourism on the taxpayer's dime.

I agree. But if you want a vision where is it anchored? Nelson began today with: "No wind is a good wind if you don't know where the harbor is." What role does the public play in NASA's primary mission? Miles says take us along for the ride, which can be achieved in different ways.

[marshallsplace]

Question about CxP, brilliantly turned around to be about shuttle by Mike:

"Even if we continued the POR, we are still looking at a significant mistake of shuting down the shuttle before we need to.

"We need redundant access, as soon as we stand down the fleet, we turn over to a monopoly with the Russians.

"The shuttle is the most capable vehicle we have, I challenge anyone who says it's unsafe. Clearly they do not know what we do to keep the fleet safe, day in day out.

"For the sake of the ISS, all that money we have spent, we can't just walk away from it. If you look at the ISS during RTF, we went to two crew, mainly maintainence. Today that station has five or six onboad. The HTV ATVs are in support of shuttle. If we take shuttle out of the loop, I don't know how everything is going to be fine.

"It does not make sense to retire shuttle, especially before commercial is online."

Amazing, want to get all of that comment on quote, was brilliant, the above is just some soundbytes.

Totally agree with all the above.

[Chris Bergin]

Hearing closing. Wow, that did not disapoint.

Thought everyone did well. Bolden was right to defend Lori, and seemed a lot better when not reading off a statement (which is better than the other way around).

The Senators were good, Vitter was best.

Hoot was solid and a rockstar astro as he is. Miles kept to his side of the fence, as he had to, suprised he was so supportive of Obama's plan, but that's his call.

Mike was frakking outstanding!!

Sorry for spelling mistakes. Live transcribing does that to you

[Mark S]

Gibson and Snyder were the stars of the show.  Young was also good because even though he was science-centered, he stated that the proposed budget fails to support HSF properly.

Miles was giddy just to be there, I think he went overboard trying to sell the Obama budget.  Sen. Nelson sure gave him a platform though.

[clb22]

My take from all this, Nelson as a representative of the Democratic side (majority after all) has no real problem with the new plan, just wants a. a clear announcement of Mars as the goal and a more detailed plan to get there and b. more money for the HLV line-item, potential with more tests on it.

So, it appears that's where it all is heading. Some announcement by the WH and/or NASA on a revised vision and a focus on Mars and some shifting of funds within the budget to bolster HLV development sooner.

Clearest and best answers and questions on both panels in my view: Nelson, Bolden and O'Brien. They really talked about the key issues and a plan going forward with this budget. Worst participant: Vitter, the guy who says HSF would be ended, completely ignoring the 16bn to a national space laboratory in the next 5 years, which is more than practically all other countries in the world spend on HSF combined.

[Bill White]

My take from all this, Nelson as a representative of the Democratic side has no real problem with the new plan, just wants a. a clear announcement of Mars as the goal and a more detailed plan to get their and b. more money for the HLV line-item, potential with more tests on it.

My sense is Nelson wants an SDLV HLV, now.

[Cog_in_the_machine]

There's another hearing tomorrow. Any idea when they'll finally decide?

[clb22]

My take from all this, Nelson as a representative of the Democratic side has no real problem with the new plan, just wants a. a clear announcement of Mars as the goal and a more detailed plan to get their and b. more money for the HLV line-item, potential with more tests on it.

My sense is Nelson wants an SDLV HLV, now.

My sense is, Nelson wants at least an HLV testing program with an HLV being development. He hasn't said anything about SD-HLV which I take aways as him being open to suggestions.

[psloss]

There's another hearing tomorrow. Any idea when they'll finally decide?

Long ways to go.  The "decision" will be a vote on a bill.

It's hard to see the authorization bill coming out of the Senate not being conflicting with the administration's proposal.  Since we've still only heard from parties directly affected, it's still pretty hard to see what the outcome will be.