Interesting about the H2 storage tanks. Tech improvements are good, but I wonder was this part of the original plan for SLS 1st launch or an add in? If part of the original plan it is being constructed quite late.
"The larger tank will allow us to attempt SLS launches on three consecutive days," Fesmire said. "In the past, we had to stand down after two attempts so additional liquid hydrogen could be trucked in and loaded into the storage tank."
How badly will the Government shutdown affect the SLS program? Have we reached the point yet where every day the Government is shut down pushes the schedule out a day? ...
Quote from: Slarty1080 on 01/19/2019 02:51 pmHow badly will the Government shutdown affect the SLS program? Have we reached the point yet where every day the Government is shut down pushes the schedule out a day? ...It may be even worse, actually.Think about summer vacation for kids. Often, without summer school, not only do kids stand still on their reading and writing skills, but they often actually REGRESS a couple months.Parts of SLS and Orion were sent to contractors to continue work, but certain things still need NASA. NASA civil servants are deeply involved in all these areas, and there's going to be insane slippage when they get back as NASA folk will need to review EVERYTHING that happened in the meantime (and much of the work may need to be redone). I would bet probably two or three months delay if the shutdown ended right now.
Maybe being pushed further to the right would give SpaceX and Blue Origin time to get more done on Starship and New Glenn. Then if Starship and New Glenn fly in a couple of years, may make the senate and house rethink continuing a now obsolete program.
China, Russia, India, among others have been are are looking into reusable boosters at least.
I still cannot understand why NASA is so slow with this rocket. We went to the moon in less than 10 years. Maybe it is two things, lack of money and contractors charging more than they should and stretching out as long as possible work on the SLS.
We went to the moon in less than 10 years. Maybe it is two things, lack of money and contractors charging more than they should and stretching out as long as possible work on the SLS.
Maybe being pushed further to the right would give SpaceX and Blue Origin time to get more done on Starship and New Glenn. Then if Starship and New Glenn fly in a couple of years, may make the senate and house rethink continuing a now obsolete program. China, Russia, India, among others have been are are looking into reusable boosters at least. I still cannot understand why NASA is so slow with this rocket. We went to the moon in less than 10 years. Maybe it is two things, lack of money and contractors charging more than they should and stretching out as long as possible work on the SLS.
The SLS is not being built because there was never a commercial option, it is being built at the direction of Congress despite there being commercial options. So having commercial options does not really change anything from the perspective of those in Congress that wanted the SLS built.
I generally agree with your entire post, but I wonder if there aren't a few nuances on this particular point. Different congresspeople probably have different reasons for supporting or at least not opposing SLS. Some, like Sen. Shelby, probably support it principally because of the federal money it brings to their constituents and donors. They will continue to support it even if SpaceX and Blue Origin are launching SLS-sized payloads every week.Many other supporters probably haven't thought about it much and are on board because they simplistically equate NASA having a big rocket with the glory of Apollo*.
As Blue Origin's and SpaceX's heavy-lift capabilities become more prominent, it will probably begin to occur to these people that SLS may not be the way to go...* So they not only fail to ask whether NASA needs its own heavy lifter, they fail to ask whether it needs heavy lift of any kind.
...Well this is the type of periodic assessment that Congress is supposed to do with all major spending programs, but has not yet done with the SLS in it's 8 years of existence.
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 01/21/2019 12:12 am...Well this is the type of periodic assessment that Congress is supposed to do with all major spending programs, but has not yet done with the SLS in it's 8 years of existence.Not sure what you mean by "Congress" in this context. Certainly the GAO has done several such assessments, often as requested and required by Congress. Several over the last few years if memory serves.
How badly will the Government shutdown affect the SLS program? Have we reached the point yet where every day the Government is shut down pushes the schedule out a day? Or is that point still in the future? What's the consensus on the delay accrued so far from the shut down?
Quote from: Slarty1080 on 01/19/2019 02:51 pmHow badly will the Government shutdown affect the SLS program? Have we reached the point yet where every day the Government is shut down pushes the schedule out a day? ...It may be even worse, actually.Parts of SLS and Orion were sent to contractors to continue work, but certain things still need NASA.
Boeing has halted testing for a multibillion-dollar rocket program designed to return astronauts to the moon...... But no longer is it just smaller federal contractors that are worried. And Boeing is a prime example. Tests of key components to ensure that the company's Space Launch System rocket can withstand its demanding mission have been halted at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Alabama and Stennis Space Center in Mississippi, Boeing project manager John Shannon told POLITICO. “[So] that work has come to a halt during the shutdown," he said.
NASA civil servants are deeply involved in all these areas, and there's going to be insane slippage when they get back as NASA folk will need to review EVERYTHING that happened in the meantime (and much of the work may need to be redone). I would bet probably two or three months delay if the shutdown ended right now.
The GAO has not been told by NASA how much the SLS will cost to operate...
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 01/21/2019 02:49 amThe GAO has not been told by NASA how much the SLS will cost to operate...It's not GAO's job to be told by NASA or Congress how much a program will cost. It is GAO's job to tell them how much the GAO thinks a program will cost. GAO has reported on it regularly, e.g., see here.
Your beef is not the fact that NASA or Congress has (edit) NOT told the GAO how much SLS will cost, but that NASA and Congress appear to have ignored the GAO reports... and several other unrelated items in your laundry list of complaints (having nothing to do with the actual cost of the SLS program).
Remember Congress has not fully funded ANY programs that require the SLS, and we are just a mere 3 years away from when the SLS is supposed to be operational - and it normally takes at least 7 years to build small planetary robotic hardware
For the last two years, NASA has been the shy partner refusing to get on the dance floor, and Congress has been the aggressive partner insisting on a dance now. Recently, NASA has said maybe on another night but only if it's a cheap date. While NASA says no for now, Congress looks to be willing to slip the band a cool $100M – on top of $150M already paid – to keep the music playing, but (to keep the metaphor going) has not been willing to fully commit itself to paying the bigger bill to rent the dance hall.The dance, of course, is the continuing attempt by Congress to have NASA commit to a mission to explore Europa, and NASA managers' attempts to delay a mission well into the 2020s. NASA is also seeking ideas for alternatives to the current $2B Europa Clipper concept that would cost no more than $1B but that also would presumably be much less capable.
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 01/23/2019 03:05 pmRemember Congress has not fully funded ANY programs that require the SLS, and we are just a mere 3 years away from when the SLS is supposed to be operational - and it normally takes at least 7 years to build small planetary robotic hardwareIt really doesn't take that long.
In his last article Eric Berger reports that the first launch will likely slip into 2021:Quote from: https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/nasa-still-working-toward-2020-launch-of-massive-sls-rocket/Multiple sources have told Ars that while NASA is still targeting sometime later in 2020 for a test launch of the SLS rocket and Orion spacecraft, known as Exploration Mission-1, this flight is likely to slip into 2021.Full article at Ars Technica: https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/nasa-still-working-toward-2020-launch-of-massive-sls-rocket/It seems that SLS is also in "Elon time" or worse
Multiple sources have told Ars that while NASA is still targeting sometime later in 2020 for a test launch of the SLS rocket and Orion spacecraft, known as Exploration Mission-1, this flight is likely to slip into 2021.