Author Topic: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran  (Read 37718 times)

Offline archipeppe68

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #20 on: 09/10/2012 07:27 am »
Other than this small orientation problem - This is a fantastic piece of work! Well done!!!

I was not aware about such orientation problem, many thanks for the tip David!!!!

Offline Helodriver

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #21 on: 09/10/2012 07:47 am »
I wonder how robust the wingfold mechanism was supposed to be? In he event of an off nominal separation or a launch abort, the wings would have to extend quickly and would be exposed to large aero forces. Perhaps it had ejection seats?

Offline archipeppe68

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #22 on: 09/10/2012 07:51 am »
I wonder how robust the wingfold mechanism was supposed to be? In he event of an off nominal separation or a launch abort, the wings would have to extend quickly and would be exposed to large aero forces. Perhaps it had ejection seats?

There was any escape system for the whole spacecraft, the wings were deployed once the LKS was in orbit.

The crew of 2 cosmonauts had ejection seats (likely the same Zvezda K-36D of Buran and also the same Strizh pressurized suits), for the first part of the launch profile as also for the landing part of the re-entry (just like the Gemini for example).

In case of more than 2 cosmonauts, obviously, any escape system was foreseen for the extra crew members.

Offline Soaring Habu

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #23 on: 09/10/2012 08:36 am »
Very interesting vehicle; don't think I've ever heard of it before!

Wouldn't the mechanism for folding the wings add too much extra weight and detract from the amount of payload that could be carried, or was LKS only intended to carry fairly light payloads?

Also, wouldn't the joints in the wings pose extra difficulties with regards to the TPS?
SR-71 Blackbird - Pure Speed!

Offline archipeppe68

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #24 on: 09/10/2012 08:45 am »
Very interesting vehicle; don't think I've ever heard of it before!

Wouldn't the mechanism for folding the wings add too much extra weight and detract from the amount of payload that could be carried, or was LKS only intended to carry fairly light payloads?

Also, wouldn't the joints in the wings pose extra difficulties with regards to the TPS?

Good questions.

First of all, even if the LKS was intended as small scale version of the Buran/STS Orbiter it has a smaller cargo bay in proportion. In this sense the payload volume/weight was still important but not as much as its bigger "brothers".

Regarding the folding wings question, Russians has seriously investigated such issue for nearly three decades, starting by the original Spiral 50/50 concept (which drove the MiG 105-11 realization). Russians engineers studied not only the folding wings mechanism (in terms of joint strenght and mechanichal interaction) but also the effectiveness of TPS in this critical configuration issue as for the heatshield porthole introduced into the TKS-VA (also known as "Merkur") design.

The folding wing was successfully proved with the small scale Bor-4 demonstrator. It was launched several times during early-mid 80's.
The Bor-4 utilized the wing folded during the re-entry phase in ordert to minimize the drag in this phase, once that the Spiral/bor-4 reached the dense air the wings were lowered down in order to achieve a runaway landing (or a slow speed splashdown in the case of Bor-4).

Regarding LKS the wings were folded during launch in order to reduce the drag in this phase and not during re-entry were the wings were fully deployed. So in this sense the LKS was less demanding for its TPS rather than the Spiral/Bor-4 concept.

Interstingly, the Spiral/Bor-4 was the baseline for the HL-20/Dream Chaser development with the only difference that American never considered seriuosly to apply the folding wings concept.

Offline Capt. David

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #25 on: 09/30/2012 06:48 pm »
Giuseppe, this really is excellent work! It is with great respect that I admire your abilities.

There remains volumes of notes concerning the LKS, but until then this will be the standard reference.

I think Chelomei would be proud!

Respectfully,

David L. Rickman
549 Caribou Road
Asheville, NC  28803
USA

Offline archipeppe68

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #26 on: 10/01/2012 07:47 am »
Giuseppe, this really is excellent work! It is with great respect that I admire your abilities.

There remains volumes of notes concerning the LKS, but until then this will be the standard reference.

I think Chelomei would be proud!

Respectfully,

David L. Rickman
549 Caribou Road
Asheville, NC  28803
USA

Many thanks David, I'm really pleased about your appreciation of my work.

Anyway, as usual, I'm willing to modify or update my presentation in order to respect the latest update status of information about the topic.

Thanks again.

Giuseppe De Chiara

Offline Loru

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #27 on: 07/07/2013 08:37 pm »
Hi

Since I cannot find this information elsewhere I'll ask here.

What materials and how TKS/LKS heatshield was made of. I'm developing near-future craft for Orbiter Space Sim and I'd like to come up with nice reusable heatshield for it, not involwing thousands of silicon tiles.

mark3-gear-up.3DS (click to view in 3D)
« Last Edit: 07/07/2013 08:38 pm by Loru »

Offline Helodriver

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #28 on: 07/31/2013 08:49 am »
Something like this would be interesting for military applications lofted by a Falcon 9R Heavy off of SLC4E at Vandenberg. Large enough to be optionally manned, incorporating long dwell time technologies proven by the X-37, and the whole stack completely reusable. Launch it from the Cape or Brownsville and you have an ISS crew taxi or an orbital tourism vehicle. This could have been a product of the Orbital Space Plane shuttle successor study had the "plane" part not degraded into "small capsule" by cost and mission confusion. Are there any Chelomei associates around who want to work at Space-X?
  ;)

Offline SalemHanna

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #29 on: 07/31/2013 07:17 pm »
Here it is.

Ciao
Giuseppe

I remember reading about this as a kid. Western science books called it Kosmolyet...I was starting to wonder if it was a figment of the writers' imaginations, and that Buran was the only real spaceplane considered in the 80s.

Mind you, the dream of a small Russian spaceplane isn't entirely dead; the MAKS concept still has its supporters and may one day become reality.

There was talk in 1991 of what was then HOTOL abandoning its single stage ambitions and launching from the top of an Antonov as a joint British-Russian project. Of course, it's evolved full circle over the years and will eventually see reality as Skylon  :)
Apollo, Soyuz, Shuttle...SKYLON.

Offline archipeppe68

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #30 on: 10/20/2019 11:59 am »
Here there are my updated (and also improved) artworks about the LKS project, based upon new and more accurate Russian references,


Offline JAFO

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #31 on: 10/20/2019 12:32 pm »


The folding wing was successfully proved with the small scale Bor-4 demonstrator. It was launched several times during early-mid 80's.
The Bor-4 utilized the wing folded during the re-entry phase in ordert to minimize the drag in this phase, once that the Spiral/bor-4 reached the dense air the wings were lowered down in order to achieve a runaway landing (or a slow speed splashdown in the case of Bor-4).

Regarding LKS the wings were folded during launch in order to reduce the drag in this phase and not during re-entry were the wings were fully deployed. So in this sense the LKS was less demanding for its TPS rather than the Spiral/Bor-4 concept.

Interstingly, the Spiral/Bor-4 was the baseline for the HL-20/Dream Chaser development with the only difference that American never considered seriuosly to apply the folding wings concept.



Iím sorry, Iím a bit confused, it seems they would have had to deploy the wings once in orbit in order to access the cargo compartment?




Beautiful work!
Anyone can do the job when things are going right. In this business we play for keeps.
ó Ernest K. Gann

Offline archipeppe68

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #32 on: 10/20/2019 07:56 pm »
Exactly the wings were unfolded immediately achieved orbit, Just before opening the cargo bay doors.

I'm glad that you have appreciated my artworks, many thanks.

Offline WallE

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #33 on: 10/21/2019 08:18 pm »
Not more dangerous than fly on Titan II or III rocket. Chelomei intended by since the Proton rocket to be man rated for a various range of manned spacecraft, as follows:

Most Proton failures were in 1967-72, by the 80s its reliability record was fine (certainly no worse than the R-7's and one of those very nearly got a crew killed). Also a manned launch would have an LES and as far as I can figure out, most failed Proton launches had plenty of time after the first indication of trouble for the LES to be activated. I have also not heard anything about Protons having pogo issues like what dogged Titan II in the early days.
« Last Edit: 10/21/2019 08:27 pm by WallE »

Offline Vahe231991

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #34 on: 09/16/2023 01:36 am »
I just found this image of a model of an early LKS configuration at the Secret Projects forum.


Offline Dmitry_V_home

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #35 on: 09/28/2023 04:29 pm »
LKS and Proton

Offline Dmitry_V_home

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Re: LKS - The Chelomei alternative to Buran
« Reply #36 on: 09/28/2023 04:30 pm »
LKS

Tags: lks chelomei 
 

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