Author Topic: MOL discussion (Read 458711 times)

kevin-rf · « **Reply #100 on:** 08/22/2013 12:55 pm »

Is Magdalena Ridge Observatory a light weight blank?

As in 2.4 left over from something space related, or 2.4m spun up by Dr. Roger Angel?

Melt Run · « **Reply #101 on:** 08/22/2013 01:12 pm »

Quote from: kevin-rf on 08/22/2013 12:55 pm

Is Magdalena Ridge Observatory a light weight blank?

As in 2.4 left over from something space related, or 2.4m spun up by Dr. Roger Angel?

This mirror is a 87% light weight fused silica mirror that was completed prior Roger Angle starting the spinning process at U of A. Roger Angle's mirrors are Pyrex.

kevin-rf · « **Reply #102 on:** 08/22/2013 04:11 pm »

Kinda of an interesting size, wink, wink, nudge, nudge...

It was pointed out in the KH-9 thread that Hubble (which has a 2.4m objective) checkout cell was next to the KH-9 and the Hubble cell was also used by the KH-11.

But I digress, ever see the flawed 200" Hale blank at the Corning Museum of Glass? It is not a solid blank, but even then, back in the 40's was a light weight blank.

Melt Run · « **Reply #103 on:** 08/22/2013 04:42 pm »

Indeed - "Kinda of an interesting size, wink, wink, nudge, nudge..."
I assume when you you refer to a checkout cell you are referring to a egg crate construction with with a top and bottom face plate.
This mirror has a totally unique mounting system consisting of 72 numaticly activated diaphragms on the bottom and two rings of titanium tangent bars on the two face plates. This is all necessated by the fact that the original mirror design assumed 0 G.
With this system it maintains a lambda/50 RMS figure in one G at all attitudes.
BTW the testing of the mounted mirror is no easy feat of engineering.
There is light weighting and there is light weighting. The Hale mirror weighs 28,000 lbs. The 2.4 M mirrors we speek of are about 1800 lbs.

Herb Schaltegger · « **Reply #104 on:** 08/22/2013 07:37 pm »

Quote from: Melt Run on 08/22/2013 04:42 pm

I assume when you you refer to a checkout cell you are referring to a egg crate construction with with a top and bottom face plate.

No, I think he's referring to the satellite bus checkout cell at the then-Lockheed Missiles and Space facility. The KH satellite history threads here have pictures.

kevin-rf · « **Reply #105 on:** 08/22/2013 08:08 pm »

Correct...

Archibald · « **Reply #106 on:** 08/31/2013 07:39 am »

Here's a scan of the article. I'm quite confident that members with better english skills than myself could translate it.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/Archibaldlecter/ff2edcaa-0258-4b06-8ef7-fd4fb126f1bb.jpg?t=1377933338

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/Archibaldlecter/001.jpg?t=1377933798

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/Archibaldlecter/003.jpg?t=1377933531

Proponent · « **Reply #107 on:** 08/31/2013 05:08 pm »

Thanks for the article! Attached is my crack at a translation into English. Since quotes presumably originally in English are translated back into English, I imagine it would be amusing to compare the re-translations with the originals!

One French phrase that particularly stumps me is la pièce maitresse en vaut la chandelle. Archibald, could you give me a hint as to what this means?

EDIT: Updated the translation with Archibald's helpful suggestion about the above phrase and a few other spots of polishing.

Archibald · « **Reply #108 on:** 08/31/2013 07:46 pm »

It's a tortuous sentence, I needed the context.

Quote

He knew that Clements' project was not easy. But the masterpiece was worth it

It should translate as something like

"He agrees that Mike Clements project is anything but simple. But the project centerpiece -[the mirror] - is well worth the pain."

A pretty good crack at a traduction AFAIK.

Melt Run · « **Reply #109 on:** 08/31/2013 08:17 pm »

Quote from: Archibald on 08/31/2013 07:39 am

Here's a scan of the article. I'm quite confident that members with better english skills than myself could translate it.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/Archibaldlecter/ff2edcaa-0258-4b06-8ef7-fd4fb126f1bb.jpg?t=1377933338

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/Archibaldlecter/001.jpg?t=1377933798

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/Archibaldlecter/003.jpg?t=1377933531

OK now I think I have a better handle on how this mirror likely got where it is. For starters the only Itek employee named Vaughn was a Bill Vaughn who would have been an unlikely suspect. The Vaughn Parson mentioned in the article was never a Itek employee but may have known a former Itek employee who was aware of the mirrors.
At the conclusion of a program (in this case 1969) all government property is bagged, tagged, and boxed with a descriptor attached and sent off to a government wear-house. The mirrors that went to MMT would not have had indications of damage where as this mirror likely indicated fractured edge and have been deemed less desirable for MMT. The remaining mirror (this mirror) would then be bundled with other government surplus equipment and after sitting for a required period would be part of a government auction. If items don't sell they are by law destroyed. There are notices that are published weekly. Great cure for insomnia! The trick is to keep track or be aware of when a item is available before being crushed. I expects this mirror was purchased at government auction for a tiny fraction of it's potential value but likely in a manner that was on the up and up.

carmelo · « **Reply #110 on:** 09/15/2013 02:12 pm »

Are photos of Bob Crippen in MOL space suit or in Gemini-B simulator?

TJL · « **Reply #111 on:** 09/16/2013 10:04 pm »

Quote from: carmelo on 09/15/2013 02:12 pm

Are photos of Bob Crippen in MOL space suit or in Gemini-B simulator?

Not exactly "in" a MOL suit, but...

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/ASTRONAUT-ROBERT-BOB-CRIPPEN-Signed-Photo-w-Hologram-COA-/00/s/NjAwWDc1MA==/z/TN0AAMXQztxSLzGn/$(KGrHqZ,!n4FIp1ucBrKBSLzGnDo0Q~~60_3.JPG

kevin-rf · « **Reply #112 on:** 11/05/2013 11:49 am »

Sounds like a MOL mirror has found a home:

http://fox13now.com/2013/11/03/utah-mans-massive-creation-may-be-largest-amateur-telescope-ever-built/

(70" sounds very close to the known 72" mirrors of MOL)

Blackstar · « **Reply #113 on:** 11/05/2013 07:43 pm »

Quote from: kevin-rf on 11/05/2013 11:49 am

Sounds like a MOL mirror has found a home:

http://fox13now.com/2013/11/03/utah-mans-massive-creation-may-be-largest-amateur-telescope-ever-built/

(70" sounds very close to the known 72" mirrors of MOL)

I started creating a master list in table form of U.S. space reconnaissance projects. I need to find that and work on it some more. I lose track of what diameter mirror and what focal length goes with what system.

kevin-rf · « **Reply #114 on:** 11/05/2013 10:38 pm »

You have them for KH-10 and KH-11?

I thought based on NTT 72" was MOL, but I have not seen the Fl published.

kevin-rf · « **Reply #115 on:** 05/12/2014 01:30 pm »

Okay, tinfoil hat MOL question,

All the KH-11 discussions have me wondering:

While we know the KH-10 used a 1.8m mirror, unlike the KH-9/KH/8/KH-7, the design has not been declassified. Why?

While actions of any government never need to make sense, I am wondering if the reason is because the design was similar to a currently classified system. Like lets say the 2.4m optics in the KH-11.

A real stretch, but could that add some logic to the reason why a canceled program is still classified while other similar retired operational systems have been declassified.

Blackstar · « **Reply #116 on:** 05/12/2014 05:07 pm »

Quote from: kevin-rf on 05/12/2014 01:30 pm

Okay, tinfoil hat MOL question,

All the KH-11 discussions have me wondering:

While we know the KH-10 used a 1.8m mirror, unlike the KH-9/KH/8/KH-7, the design has not been declassified. Why?

But it has. NRO released a schematic a couple of years ago. I wrote about it.

kevin-rf · « **Reply #117 on:** 05/12/2014 06:29 pm »

Must've missed it... I remember a fierce debate about side verses forward looking, but do not recall the debate being settled.

Article link?

Blackstar · « **Reply #118 on:** 05/12/2014 08:06 pm »

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2121/1

Jim · « **Reply #119 on:** 06/18/2014 08:05 pm »

More drawings showed up on the wiki page. Looks like declassification has happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KH-10_Dorian