There was one additional, almost afterthought aspen to the E-l program. In April 1961. representatives of the National Aeronautics and Spac<, Admmistration (NASA) contacted Dr. Charyk's office to ask perrnisSlOn to .,xamme and use E-l technology in thea own programs. It seemed possible for a time that the physical products of the E-l development might actually find their way into a moon vehicle. One stnnulant was the obvious parallel between £-1 equipment and techniques and the de vic es used by the Soviets to photograph the back surface of the muon in October 1959.
In the realm of the theoretical, it seemed that the slightly lTIOre SOphisl1cated--on paper, at 1east--E-l or its E-2 successor might permit the United States to obtam better pictures. At least NASA seemed (vnvinced--so much so that Undersecretary Charyk authorized that agency to deal With the E-l contractors through General Greer's office....Charyk instructed Greer to permit access to technical data on the came ra and on-board processing equipment, data transmission elements, and th" ground processing system. However, he forbade the release 10 oi specific satdlite photography or detailed test results. ' There was considerable doubt in informed quarters that the C-l devices had any useful application to the problem of lunar photog-raphy; both Rand and Colonel King freely expressed reservations on thaL p'oint. Indeed, as analysis of E-l results continued and as the fund of preClS., information on system capability increased, confidence 11) the "yst"m t"nded to decrease proportionately.
(I know that Perry isn't the best source on hand. Basically trying to get a generic picture of the whole film readout thing.)
Atempts at near real time imaging never really stopped from 1958 to KH-11 inception - even between 1962-1965. The E-3 RCA tape system, and NASA interest for Bimat, kind of filled the gap.
Let's have a thought for these brave historians and writers, working for the CIA or NRO, that are writing very interesting stuff...And that stuff can't be published, or will only be published 50 years later, because the reconnaissance satellite is classified. Poor Perry, for a start, didn't lived long enough to even see NRO very existence been acknowledged by the government, in 1992... nor even CORONA being declassified some years later. I hope they are well paid (at least) because it must be quite frustrating... Took me a while to realize that Perry history hasn't been written AFTER the whole thing were declassified (that is, recently) but at the time they were designed and build. And that decades passed between these dates.
Quote from: libra on 12/28/2020 07:27 pmLet's have a thought for these brave historians and writers, working for the CIA or NRO, that are writing very interesting stuff...And that stuff can't be published, or will only be published 50 years later, because the reconnaissance satellite is classified. Poor Perry, for a start, didn't lived long enough to even see NRO very existence been acknowledged by the government, in 1992... nor even CORONA being declassified some years later. I hope they are well paid (at least) because it must be quite frustrating... Took me a while to realize that Perry history hasn't been written AFTER the whole thing were declassified (that is, recently) but at the time they were designed and build. And that decades passed between these dates. [snip]There are Air Force histories that get written that could be public if they simply removed the classified stuff that is only a percentage of the overall history. I've seen some of these things that can have 5 pages of text and maybe only a few paragraphs are classified--remove those paragraphs and the rest could be made public. Alas, that doesn't happen and nobody is interested in making it happen.
c. (And this is the sensitive portion). An analysis of the probable success of getting appropriate intelligence information via the several methods (E-1, E-2, E-5, Samos system, and Discoverer) within a specified critical time period.
You probably mean "from the Air Force side there is no interest in making this happen". However, from the public side (us here on the forum) there is interest Just wanted to voice that and I read your articles with interest and enjoy the occasional digging in the archives. Happy to help where I can. While I seem to recall that you mentioned that some FOIAs take years, the few I did myself where so focussed that they were dealt with quickly. Which makes me wonder if it would be possible do a small and targeted FOIA to the Air Force historians to get started?
What I was thinking about when I wrote that was the Space Command histories that covered programs like DMSP, DSCS, DSP and so on. They produced annual histories throughout the 1980s and into the 1990s. The late Jeff Richelson FOIA'd select portions of them for his DSP book. So he would get back the DSP chapter of everything the Command was doing that year, and often most of it was intact, with few deletions. If he was able to do that for DSP, somebody could have gone after the entire history for each of those years. I don't know if organizations like The Black Vault or Government Attic have tried that, but there's no reason why the DSCS, DMSP, etc. sections of those histories from the 1970s-1990s could not be released now. There's probably very little in them that has to remain classified. Sadly, not many people write in the open literature about military space, so not many people are interested in going after that stuff with FOIA. I have my hands full with my day job and writing space history is a mostly-unpaid hobby, so I don't have time to go after everything that I think might be interesting.
In the context of the upthread discussion on SAMOS, I came across https://www.nro.gov/Portals/65/documents/foia/declass/NROStaffRecords/937.PDFwhich is from March 1960 which is probably no news to anyone here but it just indicates that the E-[1-5] analysis was ongoing Quote c. (And this is the sensitive portion). An analysis of the probable success of getting appropriate intelligence information via the several methods (E-1, E-2, E-5, Samos system, and Discoverer) within a specified critical time period.
Quote from: Blackstar on 12/28/2020 10:13 pmWhat I was thinking about when I wrote that was the Space Command histories that covered programs like DMSP, DSCS, DSP and so on. They produced annual histories throughout the 1980s and into the 1990s. The late Jeff Richelson FOIA'd select portions of them for his DSP book. So he would get back the DSP chapter of everything the Command was doing that year, and often most of it was intact, with few deletions. If he was able to do that for DSP, somebody could have gone after the entire history for each of those years. I don't know if organizations like The Black Vault or Government Attic have tried that, but there's no reason why the DSCS, DMSP, etc. sections of those histories from the 1970s-1990s could not be released now. There's probably very little in them that has to remain classified. Sadly, not many people write in the open literature about military space, so not many people are interested in going after that stuff with FOIA. I have my hands full with my day job and writing space history is a mostly-unpaid hobby, so I don't have time to go after everything that I think might be interesting.Concerning FOIAs: can FOIAs only be requested by US citizens or can foreigners do this as well? I remember that someone told me, that foreigners can request FOIAs but these would rarely be processed (perhaps it simply took so long, that this guy thought, it would not have been processes). Any information?
Generally any person - United States citizen or not - can make a FOIA request.
Processing time is correlated with both scope and correct government facility. NASA mentions an initial response time of <20 days but with some caveats. In other words, good preparation and clarity of request helps.
Just to return to the original subject of my post - it would be interesting to check how that April 1961 brief consideration of Samos E-1 by NASA influenced the Lunar Orbiter decision 2.5 years later.