Quote from: Danderman on 11/23/2010 12:21 amTVC = gimbaling, I presume.TVC = Thrust Vector Control.
TVC = gimbaling, I presume.
IIRC, the NK-33 was not gimbaled for N-1? Something spinning at several thousand RPM and then tilting leaves me skittish, especially when there's oxidizer involved. Is there another engine where a turbopump moves with the nozzle?
Off the top of my head, the only US one that doesn't move the turbopump is the Titan II.
RS-27 and RS-68 only move the chambers. RL10 moves the whole thing. SSME moves the high pressures. But those were designed for it. The N-1 steered with variable thrust.
Observe two thing: - the TVC system for AJ-26 was developed by Aerojet in U.S., although a long time ago - A project existed in 2006 to create a similar system at SNTK in Russia, called "NK-33-1", it failedThe reason SNTK failed to replicate what Aerojet have done was the lack of qualified personnel. The company is an empty shell of former self now.
Observe two thing: - the TVC system for AJ-26 was developed by Aerojet in U.S., although a long time ago - A project existed in 2006 to create a similar system at SNTK in Russia, called "NK-33-1", it failedThe reason SNTK failed to replicate what Aerojet have done was the lack of qualified personnel. The company is an empty shell of former self now. When the situation became clear, TsSKB decided to use RD-0110R on what was renamed into Soyuz-2-1v (also, 7 tonne-force of extra thrust, win-win for everyone except SNTK).So, I wonder if Aerojet would be able to do the same in 2010. If yes, it may be better to bet on them to restart the production by 2016, than on Kuznetsov or whatever government structure (an "FGUP") swallows their remnant by then.(NK-33-1 was supposed to include roll control too, for use in Soyuz-1, which would make it a bit different from AJ-26, but that's a small detail.)
The lift-off mass of Soyuz-1 is 158t . SNTK refused to increase the thrust of NK-33 produced 40 years ago from 154 tf to 185-190 tf. Then TsSKB decided to use RD-0110R (30tf + TVC) and stationary NK-33 (154 tf + 8% = 166 tf).
I'm still not clear on this, but the first two flights didn't have those vernier thrusters, so I assume they used attitude control thrusters for roll control.
Quote from: Salo on 11/23/2010 10:10 pmThe lift-off mass of Soyuz-1 is 158t . SNTK refused to increase the thrust of NK-33 produced 40 years ago from 154 tf to 185-190 tf. Then TsSKB decided to use RD-0110R (30tf + TVC) and stationary NK-33 (154 tf + 8% = 166 tf).Thanks for explaining that. I suppose 30 is nothing to sneeze at.
Quote from: Antares on 11/23/2010 06:48 pmRS-27 and RS-68 only move the chambers. RL10 moves the whole thing. SSME moves the high pressures. But those were designed for it. The N-1 steered with variable thrust.And on the later flights with vernier thrusters for roll control. I'm still not clear on this, but the first two flights didn't have those vernier thrusters, so I assume they used attitude control thrusters for roll control.
Hot gaz from gaz-generator discharged through the steering nozzles used for roll control on N-1. There were six steering nozzles on the first stage N-1. Hot gaz also used for fuel tank pressurization.
Quote from: Salo on 11/24/2010 05:22 amHot gaz from gaz-generator discharged through the steering nozzles used for roll control on N-1. There were six steering nozzles on the first stage N-1. Hot gaz also used for fuel tank pressurization.Interesting!So the gas used in the vernier steering nozzles came from the heat exchanger also used in tank pressurization?So the question remains, if there were only six nozzles on the first stage (and those are very small!), which engines were connected to the six nozzles? Or were there tap-offs on each engine for the vernier nozzles?Спасибо вам огромное за информацию. Я читал оригналние документы о НК-33 в архиве в самаре, но этот вопрос останился.
Interesting!Спасибо вам огромное за информацию. Я читал оригналние документы о НК-33 в архиве в самаре, но этот вопрос останился.
Interesting!So the gas used in the vernier steering nozzles came from the heat exchanger also used in tank pressurization?So the question remains, if there were only six nozzles on the first stage (and those are very small!), which engines were connected to the six nozzles? Or were there tap-offs on each engine for the vernier nozzles?я.