Author Topic: Kliper cancelled?  (Read 4089 times)

Offline Suzy

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Kliper cancelled?
« on: 08/03/2006 09:00 am »

Found at NASA Watch: Farewell Kliper, Hello (Again) Soyuz?

Original article: Kliper: too many unknowns

Does anyone know what on Earth is happening with Kliper?? On hold? Cancelled?  :o


Offline sammie

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Re: Kliper cancelled?
« Reply #1 on: 08/03/2006 09:08 am »
As far as I understand it the situation is as following. The competition held by the Russian Space Agency for a spacecraft to replace the Soyuz has ended with none of the 3 competitors being picked. The Klipper of Energia was one of the 3 competitors in this competition and it's safe to asumme it was the frontrunner. The idea to build the Klipper and it's design actually pre-dates the RSA competition, so after the news came in that the tender did not result in a winner Energia decided that it would continue to develop the Kliper with it's own funds and foreign support as before. This will of course go on a much lower pace then with government support and finances.
To summerize, the Kliper is not cancelled, the RSA tender and thereby government support ended with no winner and Energia says it will develop the Klipper by itself, although where they will get the money is a big questionmark
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Offline mr.columbus

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RE: Kliper cancelled?
« Reply #2 on: 08/03/2006 10:12 am »
ESA memberstates did not like the Kliper proposal. Roskosmos did not want to pay all its development costs (those would have been extensive). The best conclusion for both space agencies was to not go with Kliper and find another manned project, something cheaper and something both can live with. They came up with a Soyuz-type spacecraft - a study of which will start in September which will also figure out which space agency will be responsible for which part and how the cooperation shall work: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Crew_Transportation_System.

Offline mlorrey

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Re: Kliper cancelled?
« Reply #3 on: 08/03/2006 09:38 pm »
It is safe to say that the eurostates, who have failed to produce a number of spaceplane concepts (Sanger, Hermes, etc), are certainly not in the mood to finance the Russians to succeed where they failed. It's a matter of face, particularly given who wags the dog at ESA.

That being said, the Russians have a number of spaceplane concepts they are perpetually looking for financing for: the Baikal flyback boosters, the MAKS, BISON, Spiral, etc. Of all of the concepts, the MAKS seems the most possible to me. It is also the furthest along in development.
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Offline mr.columbus

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Re: Kliper cancelled?
« Reply #4 on: 08/05/2006 09:14 am »
Quote
mlorrey - 3/8/2006  5:25 PM

It is safe to say that the eurostates, who have failed to produce a number of spaceplane concepts (Sanger, Hermes, etc), are certainly not in the mood to finance the Russians to succeed where they failed. It's a matter of face, particularly given who wags the dog at ESA.


I disagree. It was a matter of common sense to turn down Kliper no a matter of 'face'. Government sponsored space related activity is after all not only about the building a good end product, rather it is much about getting a good return on your investment. Kliper would not have been a good investment for ESA memberstates with regard to return on that investment. RKK Energia would have designed, planned and tested and ultimately built that vehicle. ESA could have contributed with money and probably equipment of some sort - but not in the technically interesting and research intensive areas of that project.

On the other hand approving the ACTS study costs ESA not much for now, 15 million EUR and Roskosmos is paying for its part of the project until 2008 itself. After 18 months they get a fully negotiated proposal of a next generation spacecraft that splits design and building responsibility equally or even in favour of ESA. No wonder ESA went for ACTS and not for Kliper.

Offline publiusr

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Re: Kliper cancelled?
« Reply #5 on: 10/17/2006 09:15 pm »
Well said.

Offline EE Scott

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RE: Kliper cancelled?
« Reply #6 on: 10/19/2006 11:10 am »
This is a bit semantic, but Kliper can't be cancelled because it was never a program.  It's just another in a long line of concepts.  There are no shortage of concepts put out there by both Russian and American corporations.  Kliper is but one of these.  It was pushed a bit harder and got more publicity than most.  And it may be further along in its design than most as well.

So much aerospace talent in the Russian companies - yet so little financing of real projects.  Very frustrating.
Scott

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