Author Topic: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion  (Read 355157 times)

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #520 on: 04/23/2013 12:41 am »
Hot-fire Tests Steering the Future of NASA's Space Launch System Engines
April 22, 2013

Engineers developing NASA's next-generation rocket closed one chapter of testing with the completion of a J-2X engine test series on the A-2 test stand at the agency's Stennis Space Center in Mississippi and will begin a new chapter of full motion testing on test stand A-1.

The J-2X will drive the second stage of the 143-ton (130-metric ton) heavy-lift version of the Space Launch System (SLS). The rocket will provide an entirely new capability for human exploration and send humans in NASA's Orion spacecraft into deep space.

J-2X engine 10002 was fired for the last time on the A-2 test stand at Stennis on April 17. This engine set a duration record for J-2X engine firings at Stennis' A-2 test stand on April 4 when it fired for 570 seconds, beating the previous mark set less than a month earlier on March 7, when the same engine ran for 560 seconds.

This is the second J-2X engine Stennis has test fired. Last year, test conductors put the first developmental J-2X engine, called 10001, through its paces. According to J-2X managers, both performed extremely well.

When the engine is eventually used in space, it will need to be able to move to help steer the rocket.

"The A-1 is designed to allow us to gimbal, or pivot, the J-2X during a live firing and test the range of motion for the engine's flexible parts," said Gary Benton, manager of the J-2X test project at Stennis. "This type of testing hasn’t been performed since the space shuttle main engines were tested on the stand."

Those space shuttle main engines, also called RS-25s, will make a return to the test stand in 2014. A collection of RS-25 engines, which were used to launch 135 space shuttle missions, will be rated to operate at a higher power level and used to launch the core stage of the SLS.

"While we will get valuable data on the engine from the firing and gimbaling of the J-2X, we're also re-testing the function of the A-1 stand," said Mike Kynard, manager of the SLS Liquid Engines Office at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., where the SLS Program is managed. "Using A-1 to work on the J-2X gives us a great opportunity to ensure the stand will be capable and ready to test the RS-25s."

The March 7 test, which set the short-lived duration record, was remarkable for another reason in that it marked the first time a 3-D printed part was hot-fire tested on a NASA engine system.

The prime contractor for the liquid engine, Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne of Canoga Park, Calif., built a maintenance port cover for the 10002 engine using an advanced manufacturing process called Selective Laser Melting. This construction method uses lasers to fuse metal dust into a specific pattern to build the needed part.

"This demonstrates affordable manufacturing in a revolutionary way," Kynard said. "The maintenance port cover built with Selective Laser Melting cost only 35 percent of the cost to make the same part using traditional methods. It performed well enough that we have started building other rocket engine parts using this advanced process, which takes days instead of months. It is a significant savings and one that we’ll take advantage of when we build engine parts in the future."

The SLS will first launch during Exploration Mission-1 in 2017, a flight test that will send an uncrewed Orion spacecraft around the moon.

http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/j2x/j2x_a2.html

Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #521 on: 04/23/2013 01:43 pm »
Any idea why Williams Greene hasn't updated his J-2X blog recently ? Is he that busy with work, or has he moved onto another project ?

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #522 on: 04/23/2013 01:47 pm »
Any idea why Williams Greene hasn't updated his J-2X blog recently ? Is he that busy with work, or has he moved onto another project ?
no clue at all. i asked the same question a while back.

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #523 on: 04/24/2013 11:50 pm »
NASA prepares to gimbal test J-2X engine
April 18, 2013

Jeff Henderson, director of the A-1 Test Stand at Stennis Space Center, describes how the J-2X rocket engine thrust vector control (TVC) flight actuators recently installed on the structure work. The TVC actuators are hydraulic-pressured devices used to gimbal (pivot) the J-2X engine during a test firing in the same way it must move during an actual flight to direct the thrust and ensure proper trajectory. The actuators installed earlier this month on the A-1 Test Stand are prototypes of the ones NASA will use on the agency’s new Space Launch System space vehicle. NASA engineers at Stennis are performing pre-test checks of the devices at this time.

J-2X development engine No. 10002 will be installed on the A-1 Test Stand to begin several weeks of gimbal testing in May. The testing is designed to show that the engine can be gimbaled at the speed (up to five degrees per second) and in the direction needed and that it can be held in a location for as long as needed. The movement is accomplished by the actuators, which operate at 3100 psi to push and pull the engine in particular directions.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/stennis/pdf/742737main_April_13_Lagniappe.pdf
« Last Edit: 04/24/2013 11:51 pm by AnalogMan »

Offline llanitedave

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #524 on: 04/25/2013 01:34 am »
Just a general question concerning the gimbling hydraulics.  I realize that they need an independent power source, because their motion is exercised prior to ignition.  Is it helium pressure that they use, some kind of electric pump, or something else?  How long does their power output last?
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline renclod

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #525 on: 04/25/2013 07:33 am »
Just a general question concerning the gimbling hydraulics.  I realize that they need an independent power source, because their motion is exercised prior to ignition.  Is it helium pressure that they use, some kind of electric pump, or something else?  How long does their power output last?
For Ares stages, the hydraulic turbo pump in development was driven by helium when J-2X was off, switching to hydrogen when the engine was running.
Same as with Delta IV CBC as Jim stipulated on this forum .
« Last Edit: 04/25/2013 08:08 am by renclod »

Offline renclod

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #526 on: 04/27/2013 04:43 pm »
Hot-fire Tests Steering the Future of NASA's Space Launch System Engines
April 22, 2013
...
The March 7 test, which set the short-lived duration record, was remarkable for another reason in that it marked the first time a 3-D printed part was hot-fire tested on a NASA engine system.

The prime contractor for the liquid engine, Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne of Canoga Park, Calif., built a maintenance port cover for the 10002 engine using an advanced manufacturing process called Selective Laser Melting. This construction method uses lasers to fuse metal dust into a specific pattern to build the needed part.
...
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/j2x/j2x_a2.html

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=161836271

at 1:50
>>> back in 2011 we've built a duct using this process, for the J-2X, and we hot-fired it ...<<<

So which 3-D printed item was first hot-fire tested for J-2X: the U-duct or the maintenance port cover ?!


Offline AnalogMan

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #527 on: 04/27/2013 06:06 pm »
Hot-fire Tests Steering the Future of NASA's Space Launch System Engines
April 22, 2013
...
The March 7 test, which set the short-lived duration record, was remarkable for another reason in that it marked the first time a 3-D printed part was hot-fire tested on a NASA engine system.

The prime contractor for the liquid engine, Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne of Canoga Park, Calif., built a maintenance port cover for the 10002 engine using an advanced manufacturing process called Selective Laser Melting. This construction method uses lasers to fuse metal dust into a specific pattern to build the needed part.
...
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/j2x/j2x_a2.html

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=161836271

at 1:50
>>> back in 2011 we've built a duct using this process, for the J-2X, and we hot-fired it ...<<<

So which 3-D printed item was first hot-fire tested for J-2X: the U-duct or the maintenance port cover ?!

The J-2X gas generator hot-gas discharge duct was tested on Marshall Space Flight Center's Workhorse Gas Generator (WHGG) in test stand 116.  This test rig used a gas generator that had similar internal hydraulic pathways and geometries to a flight version, but was different in weight and external features.

Towards the end of 2011 there were 7 hot-fires of the duct on this rig for a total accumulated time of 537 seconds.

So the maintenance port cover was the first to be hot-fired on a NASA engine as opposed to a test rig.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #528 on: 05/01/2013 06:04 pm »
Hot-fire Tests Steering the Future of NASA's Space Launch System Engines
April 22, 2013

Engineers developing NASA's next-generation rocket closed one chapter of testing with the completion of a J-2X engine test series on the A-2 test stand at the agency's Stennis Space Center in Mississippi and will begin a new chapter of full motion testing on test stand A-1.

The J-2X will drive the second stage of the 143-ton (130-metric ton) heavy-lift version of the Space Launch System (SLS). The rocket will provide an entirely new capability for human exploration and send humans in NASA's Orion spacecraft into deep space.

J-2X engine 10002 was fired for the last time on the A-2 test stand at Stennis on April 17. This engine set a duration record for J-2X engine firings at Stennis' A-2 test stand on April 4 when it fired for 570 seconds, beating the previous mark set less than a month earlier on March 7, when the same engine ran for 560 seconds.

This is the second J-2X engine Stennis has test fired. Last year, test conductors put the first developmental J-2X engine, called 10001, through its paces. According to J-2X managers, both performed extremely well.

When the engine is eventually used in space, it will need to be able to move to help steer the rocket.

"The A-1 is designed to allow us to gimbal, or pivot, the J-2X during a live firing and test the range of motion for the engine's flexible parts," said Gary Benton, manager of the J-2X test project at Stennis. "This type of testing hasn’t been performed since the space shuttle main engines were tested on the stand."

Those space shuttle main engines, also called RS-25s, will make a return to the test stand in 2014. A collection of RS-25 engines, which were used to launch 135 space shuttle missions, will be rated to operate at a higher power level and used to launch the core stage of the SLS.

"While we will get valuable data on the engine from the firing and gimbaling of the J-2X, we're also re-testing the function of the A-1 stand," said Mike Kynard, manager of the SLS Liquid Engines Office at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., where the SLS Program is managed. "Using A-1 to work on the J-2X gives us a great opportunity to ensure the stand will be capable and ready to test the RS-25s."

The March 7 test, which set the short-lived duration record, was remarkable for another reason in that it marked the first time a 3-D printed part was hot-fire tested on a NASA engine system.

The prime contractor for the liquid engine, Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne of Canoga Park, Calif., built a maintenance port cover for the 10002 engine using an advanced manufacturing process called Selective Laser Melting. This construction method uses lasers to fuse metal dust into a specific pattern to build the needed part.

"This demonstrates affordable manufacturing in a revolutionary way," Kynard said. "The maintenance port cover built with Selective Laser Melting cost only 35 percent of the cost to make the same part using traditional methods. It performed well enough that we have started building other rocket engine parts using this advanced process, which takes days instead of months. It is a significant savings and one that we’ll take advantage of when we build engine parts in the future."

The SLS will first launch during Exploration Mission-1 in 2017, a flight test that will send an uncrewed Orion spacecraft around the moon.

http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/j2x/j2x_a2.html
Here is the accompanying picture for this article:
Image Caption:
New Record for J-2X Engine Testing
A new record was set on April 4 for J-2X engine test firings when the engine was fired for 570 seconds on the A-2 test stand at Stennis. With the completion of the test series on this stand, the engine will now be moved to the A-1 test stand where it will undergo gimbaling tests to ensure it can pivot safely, much like it will do as the steering propulsion for the second stage of NASA's Space Launch System.
Image credit: NASA/SSC
« Last Edit: 05/01/2013 06:09 pm by russianhalo117 »

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #529 on: 05/02/2013 08:32 pm »
Any idea why Williams Greene hasn't updated his J-2X blog recently ? Is he that busy with work, or has he moved onto another project?
Here is the answer that you were looking for. Below is a copy my comment and the received reply on his last blog post:

Quote
Quote
10 On May 01, 2013 11:37:38 AM  RH117  added a comment on your blog post.
Is this blog dead or will this be updated soon since a lot of progress has occurred since this last post was added on 08 January 2013. A new update bringing the public up to date on the latest progress over the last and current quarters of the fiscal year would be nice for a change.
11 On May 02, 2013 10:54:40 AM  Kris Rainey  added a comment on your blog post.
Hi RH117 -
We appreciate your interest in this blog because there are a number of exciting things happening. Bill is currently in the process of completing his next post that will talk about the expansion of the office from strictly J-2X to liquid rocket engines in general and RS-25 in specific. His future posts will also cover upcoming liquid rocket engine testing by private industry at various NASA centers of prospective liquid rocket engines that competing in the liquid category for final selection by NASA to manufacture advanced boosters for NASA's Space Launch System.  Stay tuned!
Thanks
Here is the answer that you were looking for. Above is a copy my comment and the received reply on his last blog post.
« Last Edit: 05/02/2013 08:33 pm by russianhalo117 »

Offline woods170

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #530 on: 05/03/2013 11:44 am »
Any idea why Williams Greene hasn't updated his J-2X blog recently ? Is he that busy with work, or has he moved onto another project?
Here is the answer that you were looking for. Below is a copy my comment and the received reply on his last blog post:

Quote
Quote
10 On May 01, 2013 11:37:38 AM  RH117  added a comment on your blog post.
Is this blog dead or will this be updated soon since a lot of progress has occurred since this last post was added on 08 January 2013. A new update bringing the public up to date on the latest progress over the last and current quarters of the fiscal year would be nice for a change.
11 On May 02, 2013 10:54:40 AM  Kris Rainey  added a comment on your blog post.
Hi RH117 -
We appreciate your interest in this blog because there are a number of exciting things happening. Bill is currently in the process of completing his next post that will talk about the expansion of the office from strictly J-2X to liquid rocket engines in general and RS-25 in specific. His future posts will also cover upcoming liquid rocket engine testing by private industry at various NASA centers of prospective liquid rocket engines that competing in the liquid category for final selection by NASA to manufacture advanced boosters for NASA's Space Launch System.  Stay tuned!
Thanks
Here is the answer that you were looking for. Above is a copy my comment and the received reply on his last blog post.

"And RS-25 in specific."... That blog is looking to get a whole lot more interesting. And it already was most interesting. Very nice to hear this.

Offline JosephB

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #531 on: 05/04/2013 07:22 pm »
Any idea why Williams Greene hasn't updated his J-2X blog recently ? Is he that busy with work, or has he moved onto another project?
Here is the answer that you were looking for. Below is a copy my comment and the received reply on his last blog post:

Quote
Quote
10 On May 01, 2013 11:37:38 AM  RH117  added a comment on your blog post.
Is this blog dead or will this be updated soon since a lot of progress has occurred since this last post was added on 08 January 2013. A new update bringing the public up to date on the latest progress over the last and current quarters of the fiscal year would be nice for a change.
11 On May 02, 2013 10:54:40 AM  Kris Rainey  added a comment on your blog post.
Hi RH117 -
We appreciate your interest in this blog because there are a number of exciting things happening. Bill is currently in the process of completing his next post that will talk about the expansion of the office from strictly J-2X to liquid rocket engines in general and RS-25 in specific. His future posts will also cover upcoming liquid rocket engine testing by private industry at various NASA centers of prospective liquid rocket engines that competing in the liquid category for final selection by NASA to manufacture advanced boosters for NASA's Space Launch System.  Stay tuned!
Thanks
Here is the answer that you were looking for. Above is a copy my comment and the received reply on his last blog post.

"And RS-25 in specific."... That blog is looking to get a whole lot more interesting. And it already was most interesting. Very nice to hear this.

Yes, that is great news.

Offline renclod

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #532 on: 05/11/2013 07:06 pm »
http://blogs.nasa.gov/cm/blog/J2X/posts/post_1368044101141.html
Liquid Engines Extra -- Introducing LEO

Space Launch System (SLS) Program Liquid Engines Office (LEO)

>>>E10002 was removed from NASA SSC test stand A-2 on April 30th.  It is currently being retrofitted with instrumented inlet ducts and other hardware in preparation for the next phase of testing that will occur on NASA SSC test stand A-1. ...

The current plan is to install E10002 into A-1 by mid-May ...

the assembly of E10003 will commence in June with scheduled installation into NASA SSC A-2 in September. ...<<<

Edit: A piece of info in this blog entry on J-2X restart capability (to re-validate older info) : " the J-2X has an official, useful life of only four starts and less than 2,000 seconds of operational run time after the engine has been delivered for use as part of the vehicle. "

« Last Edit: 05/11/2013 08:00 pm by renclod »

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #533 on: 05/14/2013 11:04 pm »
A-1 Test Stand Houses First Full Engine in Nearly a Decade
May 14, 2013

Engineers install J-2X engine E10002 in the A-1 test stand at NASA's Stennis Space Center. The installation is in preparation for a new series of tests, where the engine will be gimbaled, or pivoted, during test firings.

Gimbal tests are an important part of the design process. When this upper stage engine is used in space, it will need to be able to move freely to steer NASA's Space Launch System, or SLS -- an advanced heavy-lift launch vehicle that will provide an entirely new national capability for human exploration beyond Earth’s orbit. This is the first full engine to be installed in the A-1 test stand in almost a decade and the first time gimbal tests will be performed since testing on the space shuttle main engines.

A series of tests was completed on the E10002 engine in the A-2 test stand prior to its installation on the A-1 test stand at Stennis. Once this series of tests is complete, the engine will be removed, and preparations will be made to begin testing the RS-25 engine on the A-1 stand in 2014. RS-25 engines from the Space shuttle inventory will power the core stage of SLS, while the J-2X engine will power the upper stage of the evolved launch vehicle. The SLS Program is managed at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center. The J-2X engine is being built by Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne.

http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/j2x/j2x_full_1.html
« Last Edit: 05/14/2013 11:05 pm by AnalogMan »

Offline robertross

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #534 on: 05/14/2013 11:38 pm »
Beautiful, shiny and new. I love liquid rocket engine hardware  :)

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #535 on: 05/14/2013 11:57 pm »
Beautiful, shiny and new. I love liquid rocket engine hardware  :)

Beautiful and shiny, yes - but not so new now  ;)

By my reckoning its had a total of 2640 seconds (44 minutes) of running on the A2 test stand (assuming the final test ran its planned duration).

Offline renclod

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #536 on: 05/15/2013 07:35 am »
" Here are the stats on the six tests:

     • Test:          A2J022          2/15/2013          35 seconds duration
     • Test:          A2J023          2/27/2013          550 seconds duration
     • Test:          A2J024          3/07/2013          560 seconds duration
     • Test:          A2J025          3/19/2013          425 seconds duration
     • Test:          A2J026          4/04/2013          570 seconds duration
     • Test:          A2J027          4/17/2013          16 seconds duration

So the total accumulated time is 2,156 seconds. 

Tests #22, #25, and #27 all experienced early cuts, but all three were instigated by different flavors of instrumentation or monitoring system issues or oddities. 

The engine is fine and running well. "


Offline AnalogMan

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #537 on: 05/15/2013 08:55 am »
" Here are the stats on the six tests:

     • Test:          A2J022          2/15/2013          35 seconds duration
     • Test:          A2J023          2/27/2013          550 seconds duration
     • Test:          A2J024          3/07/2013          560 seconds duration
     • Test:          A2J025          3/19/2013          425 seconds duration
     • Test:          A2J026          4/04/2013          570 seconds duration
     • Test:          A2J027          4/17/2013          16 seconds duration

So the total accumulated time is 2,156 seconds. 

Tests #22, #25, and #27 all experienced early cuts, but all three were instigated by different flavors of instrumentation or monitoring system issues or oddities. 

The engine is fine and running well. "

Thanks for that - I did not know the actual duration for the final test (only that it was planned to be 500 seconds).

Edit: My fault, I still haven't gotten around to reading William Greene's latest blog - will do it today  ;D
« Last Edit: 05/15/2013 08:59 am by AnalogMan »

Offline robertross

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #538 on: 05/17/2013 01:18 am »
Beautiful, shiny and new. I love liquid rocket engine hardware  :)

Beautiful and shiny, yes - but not so new now  ;)

By my reckoning its had a total of 2640 seconds (44 minutes) of running on the A2 test stand (assuming the final test ran its planned duration).

Compared to a J-2? It's new  :)

Testing is good - weeds out the issues.
Actually, it's all good. NASA is doing engine development, people have jobs, a test stand is in use & needed, and a rocket awaits the final product.

Offline catdlr

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Re: J-2X Upper Stage Engine Updates and Discussion
« Reply #539 on: 06/18/2013 12:34 am »
J-2X Engine No. 10002 Tests at Stennis Space Center

Published on Jun 17, 2013
J-2X engine No. 10002 is tested June 13 on the A-1 Test Stand at NASA's Stennis Space Center in south Mississippi. The 60-second test signals the start of a series of firings to collect critical data on engine performance. By the time the J-2X tests conclude later this summer, the engine will have been fired at full power and for the total time it would operate during an actual flight, while being gimbaled in the same way it must move during flight. (NASA/SSC)

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